192 réponses à ce sujet

[Carmen_Willow]

Ukki wrote...

Kothoses Rothenkisal wrote...

Got poked into this thread to comment on a subject I am normally not one for discussing but there are just too many interesting points being brought up.

I have to say the most touching atleast emotionally, love scene that I can recall was Tali in ME 2, and for me what made it that way was the entrance she did, wandering into the room, babbling away with nerves and the voice acting was stunning there, as she almost tried to talk her self out of it before resolving that come what may she wanted this.

It was masterfully done to be honest and the kind of depth that I have not seen in a game since it really captured very human fragile emotions and that moment where you put your self bare and hope to what ever that the other person wont turn you away at the last moment.

In terms of the quality of love scene I think that one served its purpose and while I have no problem with TW 2 style full on nudity (hell id Tap triss in a heartbeat if she were real) I think what matters is if they manage to capture the conflicting emotions of human togetherness, a sexual encounter is a mix of euphoria, risk, fear and elation you never quite know how that first time will go, if your partner of choice will accept you without the walls and barriers and yes the clothes too. You stand there letting them see you naked and in the best love scenes they have already seen your mind and heart so there is that defencelessness that adds a risk, and finally that moment where you realise, that "its ok" and the relief and euphoria of that.

Capture that and it doesnt matter how much nudity you put into the scene, unless its pure trash, it will be beautiful no matter what.

Well said Sir, I concur.

This--in spades!

[Cruehitman]

People need to grow up. Once again, it cracks me up that these people have no problems with disembowling, beheadings, blood and guts... I mean for the love of God, look at the cutscenes when you talk with someone right after a huge battle. You can almost see the brain matter dripping off of them. And yet... you mention nudity, and it becomes "OMG... I don't want porn. Bunch of perverts" or "I'll search the internet if I want to see that kind of thing." Get over it people. If I'm a pervert because I think it should contain some nudity, then you are a future (or possibly present) serial killing weirdo because you have no problem with the blood guts and entrails (and some people even want a lot more of that).

The "pervert" or "i don't want porn" line of reasoning is absolutely a HUGE joke. Give me a break. Just because they add some nudity to the game, it doesn't make it a Skinemax flick or something that belongs on a XXX shelf. Just watched the movie remake of "The Mechanic" starring Jason Statham. Guess what... has plenty of blood and guts and (oh the horror!) nudity. And it's rated R... (the gaming equivilent of M). It's not a porno people because it shows some nudity. And my wife enjoyed the movie as well. NUDITY DOES NOT EQUAL PORN PEOPLE.

Another set of examples. Look at some games like Heavy Rain and the God of War series. Both are rated M (that's for Mature again people). Both are incredibly succesful in the sales department as well as HIGHLY reviewed and rated by critics and fans alike. They've won awards. And they contain... wait for it... here it comes... cover your eyes... nudity!!!  And they are NOT considered pornographic by any stretch of the imagination. Wow... imagine that. I haven't played TW2, but I've heard a LOT of great things about it. And it too contains the "dreaded" nudity. There is nothing wrong with the nudity!

I just can't understand it. Blood and guts is ok. Let me watch the blood geyser out after I behead someone. But God forbid a nipple pop out! If I buy a mature game, that should mean I'm mature enough not only to handle the blood, but also nudity. They're adults... we're adults. Nudity is more natural then shoving a sword handle-deep into somone's chest cavity. The love scenes should include nudity. Period. For the last time... NUDITY DOES NOT EQUAL PORN!

Worst case scenario... I say include nudity in the game. When the game ships, have the nudity turned OFF in the settings. So anyone that can't handle M-rated nudity in the game, can do without. Anyone that wants the nudity can go into the settings and turn it on. Everyone wins.

Modifié par Cruehitman, 16 août 2011 - 12:28 .

[dragon_83]

Cruehitman wrote...

People need to grow up. Once again, it cracks me up that these people have no problems with disembowling, beheadings, blood and guts... I mean for the love of God, look at the cutscenes when you talk with someone right after a huge battle. You can almost see the brain matter dripping off of them. And yet... you mention nudity, and it becomes "OMG... I don't want porn. Bunch of perverts" or "I'll search the internet if I want to see that kind of thing." Get over it people. If I'm a pervert because I think it should contain some nudity, then you are a future (or possibly present) serial killing weirdo because you have no problem with the blood guts and entrails (and some people even want a lot more of that).

The "pervert" or "i don't want porn" line of reasoning is absolutely a HUGE joke. Give me a break. Just because they add some nudity to the game, it doesn't make it a Skinemax flick or something that belongs on a XXX shelf. Just watched the movie remake of "The Mechanic" starring Jason Statham. Guess what... has plenty of blood and guts and (oh the horror!) nudity. And it's rated R... (the gaming equivilent of M). It's not a porno people because it shows some nudity. And my wife enjoyed the movie as well. NUDITY DOES NOT EQUAL PORN PEOPLE.

Another set of examples. Look at some games like Heavy Rain and the God of War series. Both are rated M (that's for Mature again people). Both are incredibly succesful in the sales department as well as HIGHLY reviewed and rated by critics and fans alike. They've won awards. And they contain... wait for it... here it comes... cover your eyes... nudity!!!  And they are NOT considered pornographic by any stretch of the imagination. Wow... imagine that. I haven't played TW2, but I've heard a LOT of great things about it. And it too contains the "dreaded" nudity. There is nothing wrong with the nudity!

I just can't understand it. Blood and guts is ok. Let me watch the blood geyser out after I behead someone. But God forbid a nipple pop out! If I buy a mature game, that should mean I'm mature enough not only to handle the blood, but also nudity. They're adults... we're adults. Nudity is more natural then shoving a sword handle-deep into somone's chest cavity. The love scenes should include nudity. Period. For the last time... NUDITY DOES NOT EQUAL PORN!

Worst case scenario... I say include nudity in the game. When the game ships, have the nudity turned OFF in the settings. So anyone that can't handle M-rated nudity in the game, can do without. Anyone that wants the nudity can go into the settings and turn it on. Everyone wins.

I would promote this comment if I could.

Bioware should either do a well directed, tasteful love scene, or shouldn't do any. The ones that are in the game are awkward and look silly.

[PinkShoes]

ha

it did sorta look like they just made out a bit on the bed.

[Sir Edric]

Cruehitman wrote...

People need to grow up. Once again, it cracks me up that these people have no problems with disembowling, beheadings, blood and guts... I mean for the love of God, look at the cutscenes when you talk with someone right after a huge battle. You can almost see the brain matter dripping off of them. And yet... you mention nudity, and it becomes "OMG... I don't want porn. Bunch of perverts" or "I'll search the internet if I want to see that kind of thing." Get over it people. If I'm a pervert because I think it should contain some nudity, then you are a future (or possibly present) serial killing weirdo because you have no problem with the blood guts and entrails (and some people even want a lot more of that).

The "pervert" or "i don't want porn" line of reasoning is absolutely a HUGE joke. Give me a break. Just because they add some nudity to the game, it doesn't make it a Skinemax flick or something that belongs on a XXX shelf. Just watched the movie remake of "The Mechanic" starring Jason Statham. Guess what... has plenty of blood and guts and (oh the horror!) nudity. And it's rated R... (the gaming equivilent of M). It's not a porno people because it shows some nudity. And my wife enjoyed the movie as well. NUDITY DOES NOT EQUAL PORN PEOPLE.

Another set of examples. Look at some games like Heavy Rain and the God of War series. Both are rated M (that's for Mature again people). Both are incredibly succesful in the sales department as well as HIGHLY reviewed and rated by critics and fans alike. They've won awards. And they contain... wait for it... here it comes... cover your eyes... nudity!!!  And they are NOT considered pornographic by any stretch of the imagination. Wow... imagine that. I haven't played TW2, but I've heard a LOT of great things about it. And it too contains the "dreaded" nudity. There is nothing wrong with the nudity!

I just can't understand it. Blood and guts is ok. Let me watch the blood geyser out after I behead someone. But God forbid a nipple pop out! If I buy a mature game, that should mean I'm mature enough not only to handle the blood, but also nudity. They're adults... we're adults. Nudity is more natural then shoving a sword handle-deep into somone's chest cavity. The love scenes should include nudity. Period. For the last time... NUDITY DOES NOT EQUAL PORN!

Worst case scenario... I say include nudity in the game. When the game ships, have the nudity turned OFF in the settings. So anyone that can't handle M-rated nudity in the game, can do without. Anyone that wants the nudity can go into the settings and turn it on. Everyone wins.

Nuff said!

[willholt]

Cruehitman wrote...

People need to grow up. Once again, it cracks me up that these people have no problems with disembowling, beheadings, blood and guts... I mean for the love of God, look at the cutscenes when you talk with someone right after a huge battle. You can almost see the brain matter dripping off of them. And yet... you mention nudity, and it becomes "OMG... I don't want porn. Bunch of perverts" or "I'll search the internet if I want to see that kind of thing." Get over it people. If I'm a pervert because I think it should contain some nudity, then you are a future (or possibly present) serial killing weirdo because you have no problem with the blood guts and entrails (and some people even want a lot more of that).

The "pervert" or "i don't want porn" line of reasoning is absolutely a HUGE joke. Give me a break. Just because they add some nudity to the game, it doesn't make it a Skinemax flick or something that belongs on a XXX shelf. Just watched the movie remake of "The Mechanic" starring Jason Statham. Guess what... has plenty of blood and guts and (oh the horror!) nudity. And it's rated R... (the gaming equivilent of M). It's not a porno people because it shows some nudity. And my wife enjoyed the movie as well. NUDITY DOES NOT EQUAL PORN PEOPLE.

Another set of examples. Look at some games like Heavy Rain and the God of War series. Both are rated M (that's for Mature again people). Both are incredibly succesful in the sales department as well as HIGHLY reviewed and rated by critics and fans alike. They've won awards. And they contain... wait for it... here it comes... cover your eyes... nudity!!!  And they are NOT considered pornographic by any stretch of the imagination. Wow... imagine that. I haven't played TW2, but I've heard a LOT of great things about it. And it too contains the "dreaded" nudity. There is nothing wrong with the nudity!

I just can't understand it. Blood and guts is ok. Let me watch the blood geyser out after I behead someone. But God forbid a nipple pop out! If I buy a mature game, that should mean I'm mature enough not only to handle the blood, but also nudity. They're adults... we're adults. Nudity is more natural then shoving a sword handle-deep into somone's chest cavity. The love scenes should include nudity. Period. For the last time... NUDITY DOES NOT EQUAL PORN!

Worst case scenario... I say include nudity in the game. When the game ships, have the nudity turned OFF in the settings. So anyone that can't handle M-rated nudity in the game, can do without. Anyone that wants the nudity can go into the settings and turn it on. Everyone wins.

I actually stood up and cheered at my computer screen after reading that. It is so, SO my point of view, except said in a much better way than I ever could.

A superb post!

[PinkShoes]

rapunzel696 wrote...

casadechrisso wrote...

Mass Effect 1's "scandal scene" had no VO either, is tame but a hundred times more believable than DA2's.

Reminder

Oh, that's nice, too (I haven't played ME).
But the DA2 scenes were believable,too imo. Maybe show undressing, etc.

Omg thats IT?! Seriously i thought it was gunna be so graphic we would see the vulva -,- a bit a side boob and people were all up in arms?

[Nerdage]

Some day I hope to understand why people have such strong feelings about nudity either way..

Of course it's nothing to be afraid of, but some of you arguing for it are acting like it's a personal offense to you for them to not include it, as though they're discriminating against your right to be naked.

They'll do what they think is appropriate, and I mean that not only in regards to decency, but also what's appropriate for the scene itself and the resources they have to spend on it (making unique body models and such). If that's not to your satisfaction... well then add it to the long list of things that are never going to make everybody happy.

Personally, so long as we don't end up with a weird Origins style middle ground again I'm fine with whatever they do. I liked them in ME1, and I liked them in DA2. Hell, I was fine with it in BG2, and that was just text dialogue and fade to black, the important bit was that it happened and how it affected the characters and the relationship, not that I got to watch.

Modifié par nerdage, 16 août 2011 - 01:22 .

[Yuqi]

Lets not forget different ratings in different countries.Case in point; Fallout 3 did not make it to my country.

A level of nudity in one country,may not be acceptable in another.Different players have different socio/religious views. It is better to stay on the middle ground,then to go full nudity and start a scandal(That could end up with the game being, banned) Any game banned in one country= massive-loss-of-profits.

Some people need to use there imagination more..geez :/

[casadechrisso]

Yuqi wrote...

Lets not forget different ratings in different countries.Case in point; Fallout 3 did not make it to my country.

A level of nudity in one country,may not be acceptable in another.Different players have different socio/religious views. It is better to stay on the middle ground,then to go full nudity and start a scandal(That could end up with the game being, banned) Any game banned in one country= massive-loss-of-profits.

Some people need to use there imagination more..geez :/

But in Fallout 3's case certainly not due to the level of (non-existant) nudity, but due to the level of violence or maybe drugs. It got censored in Germany too - no guts and head explosions, all things that are perfectly fine for the US market.

As for nudity, the US are probably the worst case scenario already, maybe on the level with some very religious countries like islamic countries. Most EU countries would allow much more, a nipple barely raises the mark over 12+ over here, while in the US it's a certain M.

I still haven't played the Witcher 2 yet, only looked at some videos after the love scene discussions here, but it made it past the US censorship and already shows much more than I'd ever want to see in a Bioware game. I'm not offensed by it at all, but the Witcher is almost softporn in comparison and I don't really see scenes on that level in a Bioware game ever.

All I'd like to see is well done love scenes that are not completely immersion-breaking like DA:O's horrible undies and stuff like that, scenes that only show how scared Bioware is to cause a next (unjustified) Fox scandal. I don't need to see the pubic regions or a doggy-style scene like in the Witcher, just keep it romantic and immersive and don't ruin it with horrible undies or a childish level that is just not fitting into a M-rated game.

In the case of DA:O I tried out one of the better done nudie patches, just to see how it affects the love scenes, and that level of nudity is perfect, since the cutscenes never go into more extreme camera positions and show nothbing naughty. Try it sometime. It's still much milder than The Witcher 2.

Modifié par casadechrisso, 16 août 2011 - 03:49 .

[Travie]

the ME1 scenes were the best BW has produced. If there was actually criticism of them I never heard it.

Screw the prudes out there, make an option to turn the scenes off if you don't like romance.

[FieryDove]

Travie wrote...

the ME1 scenes were the best BW has produced. If there was actually criticism of them I never heard it.
 

[Cruehitman]

Thank you for the kind comments for my post above! I was just talking to my wife about this "dreaded" nudity talk in video games, and even she doesn't understand it. If a game is rated M, anyone playing it should be mature enough to handle not only the blood and guts of it all, but the occasional pixelated VIDEO GAME nudity. As long as it's not blatantly pornographic (ie. close up between the legs shots, hardcore sex, etc), there should not be a problem with it. That's one of the things that makes the game Mature. I'm adult enough to handle some bare skin showing. I mean for God's sake, we have no problem cutting the skin off their bodies in the game right?! LOL... so a nipple is not going to make me fall apart and shield my eyes. In these games, if I want to gut someone I can do it. If I want to cut someone's head off, so be it. If I want to bathe in their blood like a dehydrated vampire, bring it on. And for the love of God, if I wanted to undo Isabella's overflowing top, I should be able to do it!

Once again, thanks for the positive backing above guys!

[MistySun]

LOL....you can always get a mod for sex scenes like in DA:O the mod for Leliana and the PC. 

[FieryDove]

MistySun wrote...

LOL....you can always get a mod for sex scenes like in DA:O the mod for Leliana and the PC. 

Not everyone is playing these games on PC hence mods are not the answer for many.

[Apathy1989]

furryrage59 wrote...

No thank you, it's fine how it is.

Prefer tender, romantic love scenes to carnal naked flesh porn. No thank.

This for me aswell. Nudity in games tends to come over as pornographic or handled poorly. 

I mean DAO had terrible romance scenes, ME1s were ok but not great. DA2 and ME2s were ok - felt very PG though.

[LeBurns]

I have always had an issue with what is allowed in the blood and gore department but what isn't allowed in nudity.  I'll be honest, I really don't desire either one in my game.  Believable gore maybe, if you factor in that you are using swords to kill people.  But the 'over the top' gore is just silly and adds nothing to the game or immersion.  I don't desire nudity in my games either, but the way ME1 did it and even The Witcher 2, just added to the scene in a mature way and wasn't just 'over the top' sex.

I think the people that are screaming about the sex in games also have no idea how much gore is going into these games these days.  With the Saw movies and Final Destination movies it seems that movies and games are trying to out do themselves in the gore department, BUT they are only doing it to out do one another, it doesn't add to the movie or game.

I'd like to see mature games have believable gore and nudity when is seem appropriete.  The Witcher 2 seems to be the closest to this now and I hope the next games coming out learn from them.

ps - Though I liked the believable tasteful sex scenes in ME1, I can not imagine seeing full nudity like from The Witcher 2 in ME3.  A fully nude Tali?  A fully nude Ashley?  A nude male Shepherd?  I don't know, maybe the setting isn't right, it's just hard to picture anything more than what was shown in ME1 for ME3 (I hope they at least go that far anyway.  The scenes in ME2 were hopeless).

[Urazz]

gamer_girl wrote...

I dunno that BW wants that kind of negative publicity again - no matter how many other games have worse sex scenes, and no matter who it was that brought the negative spotlight upon them.

Yeah, but they can just point to the freaking rating as a defense and say that if kids are playing that game then it is either the parent's fault for letting them play the game if they were the ones who bought it or the retailer's fault for selling it to minors.  Either way it won't be Bioware's fault.  It's as simple as that.

Personally, I don't expect more than ME1 level of sex scenes.  The Witcher 2 is a bit too extreme on the nudity and sex (not that I'm complaining) that it would probably be asking for another incident from Faux News.

Modifié par Urazz, 17 août 2011 - 12:50 .

[xkg]

I have no idea why are we discussing about kids playing "M" rated game.
Let's just leave that argument for some "parental problems" portal/forum.
This is not a serious argument for stripping nudity from games targeted at mature audiences.

Modifié par xkg, 17 août 2011 - 01:00 .

[KenKenpachi]

Like some in here I rather like it how it is, plus I'm sure lite porno could cause trouble with some real life couples. Some people are jealous, and violence in many cultures is a fact of life, while sexuality is normally ment for reproductive purposes. Well it is true across much of the US, south America, most of Asian, and Africa/MidEast. Russia is split, while the reverse is true of the bulk of Europe minus a few nation states.

[HowlingSiren]

For mature audiences, romance building is pretty linear: chat, flirt, kiss, shag. IMHO, Bioware usually handle the romance build-up through dialogue quite masterfully – I say in general because I felt DA2 was lacking in that department, because of the restrictions on character interaction and thus non-quest-related topics to discuss. But even there, as you interact with your LI, you do discern an evolution in the intimacy of the topics you cover. Kissing and sex scenes naturally follow, and as in real life, I don’t think it’s being perverted to expect a crescendo in the level of intimacy you’re meant to share with your LI. And that also goes for what you get to see. I don’t need full nudity, but I certainly would expect bare chests or some semblance of undress, because let’s face it, that’s how most of us have sex. Whether they wanted to or not, Bioware set a precedent with the beautiful ME1 scene and the suggestive DAO scenes, so like many others, I expected the culmination of the romance in DA2 to go a little further, both during and after. A fade-to-black and Anders/Fenris in full armor was a step back, as far as I’m concerned, and left me shaking my head. On the bright side, my expectations for ME3 and DA3 have been reset to PG.

[LordKinoda]

I dunno that BW wants that kind of negative publicity again - no matter how many other games have worse sex scenes, and no matter who it was that brought the negative spotlight upon them.

Frack fox news. They're just one idiot news network that blew something so small completely out of proportion. There are TONS more examples in movies (mainstream movies mind you) to point to that are raunchy and borderline pornographic.

The issue is because it's in a video game. And close minded fools still can't grasp the concept that not ALL video games are made for children. THAT'S IT. Nothing else. They think that all games are made for kids so they snap at the slightest hint of nudity and/or sex.

Why should BW give a flying rats arse what a right-wing news company thinks about their game ? People that play Mass Effect, or any other of their games for that matter, DO NOT watch that network or cast themselves in the same mindset as the people who do. And if somebody who plays BW's games does actually watch fox news with a serious intent, you really have your signals crossed.

DAO's scene was just fine, except for the underwear, but a nude mod fixes that.

I always point to two examples when these discussions pop up because I think they are great and energetic and are not pornographic. The scene between Night Owl and Silk Spectre in Watchmen. And the scene between Leonidas and his wife in 300. Just adult scenes showing a great passion between two characters. It has nudity sure, but most people ARE completely naked when they have sex. Totally natural.

This for me aswell. Nudity in games tends to come over as pornographic or handled poorly.

I've been playing games since 1987, and I have never saw a scene in a mainstream type video game that I thought was pornographic. Please name a few examples so I can see what you mean. Now I have seen scenes poorly handled, but none of them I thought as pornographic.

I mean DAO had terrible romance scenes

DAO's default scenes with a nudity mod are pretty decent actually. Sorry if you have it on console, that sucks. But that's the reason I don't buy games such as these on console anymore. Way too many mods to take advantage of.

ME1s were ok but not great

PG-13. Like you said, okay, but not great.

DA2 and ME2s were ok - felt very PG though.

These were just bland and yes, definitely PG. I know I was disappointed. I didn't want full on porn, but I would of like to see something more adult and passionate.

On the bright side, my expectations for ME3 and DA3 have been reset to PG

How is that a bright side after what you just said ? ME3 and DA3 are the games that need to break out of the shell and go for it like a mainstream R-rated movie does.

Modifié par LordKinoda, 17 août 2011 - 10:17 .

[Friera]

gamer_girl wrote...

I dunno that BW wants that kind of negative publicity again - no matter how many other games have worse sex scenes, and no matter who it was that brought the negative spotlight upon them.

I don´t get why America is so tip toed over sex in video games. In Norway its more like "Bring it on!!!", hence I like it the way it already is.. Just wish there was some more kissing and little more intimicy. But just not actual porn. And more companion quests leading to more...happiness...Or just random happiness. Yay

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

Well, you see...hundreds of years ago Europe kicked out alot of people for a variety of reasons, some political, some religious and some due to legal issues. These people were sent or volunteered to go to the Americas. It was a harsh voyage and an even harsher reality arriving here since...hey, there were already people living here! The cultures clashed for many reasons, often tragicly unnecessarily. Between the convicts, religious sects and miserable paupers fighting for survival, new culture formed.

Fast forward a few hundred years...ta-da! Sex is still viewed by some as a more taboo issue than violence, perhaps because the early settlers were more accustomed to violence while being mixed in with Puritanical religious outcasts from Europe. It's all fairly rediculous but, as with all people, Americans are prone to adhering to traditions. And, violence is a way of life. Life, done, afterall feed on life. That hamburger you just ate did used to be an animal, so did that bacon or that can of chicken stock. Sex is also part of the world, but many people are more bashful about that than violence, since violence occurs more often than sex just in the practice of eating, sports and day to day activities.

Since Bioware is a Western Hemisphere company, it is likely sensitive to commentary of it's products in regards to sex. Afterall, consumers make a company and sales are important. That's my guess at least!

[ShadyKat]

>Cutting people into bite sized chunks = okay
>love scene between to consenting adults = not ok

Seems to be the norm in video games.