192 réponses à ce sujet

[happy_daiz]

Friera wrote...

I don´t get why America is so tip toed over sex in video games. 

I know I'm taking this out of context, but...it's not ALL of America, it's just the people who make the rules. I'd wager a guess that a lot of us little peons are totally fine with sex in video games. 

[Friera]

happy_daiz wrote...

Friera wrote...

I don´t get why America is so tip toed over sex in video games. 

I know I'm taking this out of context, but...it's not ALL of America, it's just the people who make the rules. I'd wager a guess that a lot of us little peons are totally fine with sex in video games. 

Ofcourse I know its not all of America. Im not blaming you guys (apparently no humour is allowed here  ) .. Just in media wise. In Norway they never mention sex is an issue in video games (although there where some bad press regarding the "hidden" nudity in GTA: Vice City a few years back). And Im not critizising Americans, really. Its just that I find it...odd that sex equals bad press in America. Or it seems like that from my itty bitty country up north.. 

[happy_daiz]

Friera wrote...

Ofcourse I know its not all of America. Im not blaming you guys (apparently no humour is allowed here ) .. Just in media wise. In Norway they never mention sex is an issue in video games (although there where some bad press regarding the "hidden" nudity in GTA: Vice City a few years back). And Im not critizising Americans, really. Its just that I find it...odd that sex equals bad press in America. Or it seems like that from my itty bitty country up north..  

Humor is definitely allowed here. 

Modifié par happy_daiz, 18 août 2011 - 07:21 .

[LordKinoda]

Since Bioware is a Western Hemisphere company, it is likely sensitive to commentary of it's products in regards to sex. Afterall, consumers make a company and sales are important. That's my guess at least!

One might think that, if they weren't one of the first developers to actually include same sex relationships, and sex scenes, in their games (mainstream were talking here, not games where sex is the focus). I thought they seemed pretty liberal. But it now seems they are dumbing things down, going more PG-13 when they should be doing R. The M rating is the equivalent to the R. People don't go crazy over sex scenes and/or nudity in R rated movies do they ? So why should it be any different in an M rated game ? Answer: It shouldn't.

Like I said above, people just need to learn that not all games are for children, plain and simple.
Some develeoper needs to be a little bold and just go for it, and to hell with the prudes. I thought that developer could of been BW, but maybe not. Maybe EA has too much say in the matter ? I don't know.

Modifié par LordKinoda, 21 août 2011 - 09:48 .

[Luvinn]

I have no problem with or the lack of nudity in sex/love scenes in video games so long as they are done well. What i do hate is the 'implied' nudity in the Dragon Age series love scenes. They just make it look so awkward to have a love scene with characters wearing their undergarments, or cuddling on a bed, but wearing pants. I'd rather they did the scenes like Isabella where they just fade it to black before it gets to that point. The way it was for Merrill's scene for example just made it seem like they wanted to show it, but were to scared to.

[Icy Magebane]

The love scenes were ****** poor. Nothing else to say about them.

happy_daiz wrote...

Friera wrote...

I don´t get why America is so tip toed over sex in video games. 

I know I'm taking this out of context, but...it's not ALL of America, it's just the people who make the rules. I'd wager a guess that a lot of us little peons are totally fine with sex in video games. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

Actually this too... the people that don't even play video games end up making rules for the rest of us.   And sorry that America takes the blame for this one... we've done a lot of good for the world, but being the moral police isn't our finest moment.

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 20 août 2011 - 09:16 .

[yaw]

Slicing someone's head off and having their limp, bloody body collapse in the dirt is A-OKAY, kids.

But no ******.

[schalafi]

What happened from Origins to DA2 to have Bioware go back to fully clothed? I didn't think underwear was particularly romantic, but it was better than having your li wearing everything. Did Fox News say something awful about one of Bioware's games that started this?

[limpan21]

This whole thing about having any form of nudity in a game as something abhorrent is purely a american issue, i think most of the euro players (like myself) find it extremly ironic (and really funny) that you guys over on the other side of the pond can have brainsplatter hit the screen in full 3D with no problems what-so-ever but god forbid there is a naked woman (for some reason you seem to be able to show half naked guys though which makes it even funnier heh)

It's truly absurd to say the least.

[Mister Fancy Pants]

It blows my mind that the human body, which any of us can see nude within 5 seconds of connecting to the internet is so offensive that it cannot be tastefully included in a game. Movies get it every once in a while.

I mean really. What's not to like about breasts (or maybe butts for the ladies)? Seriously...

I don't want full on hardcore exposure. Less is more, but gimme a little... Let my mind make up the rest.

[lifemate99]

Of all the love scenes, of both Mass Effects and Dragon Ages, I like the DAO and ME1 the best. It was not porno it was sensual and intimate. I wish however that there was a Qunari romance option, sigh. In a game where romance options are available, the player should have the chance to witness the results of said worked-for romance. If the player does not want to see it then either don't romance any character or simply esc out of the scene. This is a mature game and if younger kids are playing it, then that is the parents fault and should not impact Dragon Age and/or Mass Effect fans.

[Nerdage]

I seem to recall David Gaider saying at some point that the reason there was no topless Fenris was that they couldn't afford the time to make the model without cutting something else.

Granted there's a human undies model for the player character but do we really want that again? Identical body models (identical right down to the pants)? I don't think it's a coincidence that the only character that does any undressing is the one which uses a pre-existing non human model. I wouldn't be surprised if the scenes as they are now are at least partly a development compromise, rather than entirely by design.

That said, I don't see a problem with how they are now. Like I've said before, the important part is that it happened and how if affects the characters and the relationship, not that I got to watch.

[LordKinoda]

This whole thing about having any form of nudity in a game as something abhorrent is purely a american issue, i think most of the euro players (like myself) find it extremly ironic (and really funny) that you guys over on the other side of the pond can have brainsplatter hit the screen in full 3D with no problems what-so-ever but god forbid there is a naked woman (for some reason you seem to be able to show half naked guys though which makes it even funnier heh)

It's truly absurd to say the least.

Oh trust me, most of us find it just as ironic and absurd as you do It's only a VERY small population of people who have a fit over it. And these people don't even play the games. How much more ironic is that ?

I seem to recall David Gaider saying at some point that the reason there was no topless Fenris was that they couldn't afford the time to make the model without cutting something else.

That's such a cop-out, seriously. How long would it take to make a model of a few characters, let alone ONE ? And the disk space required to make a new model isn't THAT high that you have to actually cut something else out entirely.

You got a few programs, (hell some of them you can even download for free) and a little skill, next to anybody can bang out a new model for the game; 15-60 mintues depending on how much detail you wanted. I can't say how to integrate these models in the game so they appear in the right places, but there are plenty of modders who do know how to do this. I'm going to be looking in to making models myself and hopefully I can figure it out and download the model programs, because apparently this is the only way I will ever get what I want out of these scenes.

Now let's imagine a multi-million dollar company that makes games for a living. This is ALL they do. They can't make unique models for each companion that is involved in romance scenes ? Give me a VERY large break. If this is true, they are just lazy, laughably, and pitifully so.

Like I've said before, the important part is that it happened and how if affects the characters and the relationship, not that I got to watch.

But actually seeing it take place is always better. I don't think anybody is advocating pornographic scences, just something more passionate and adult. This means nudity will have to be included, at least rumps and breasts, because the majority of people have sex fully nude.

Modifié par LordKinoda, 23 août 2011 - 08:14 .

[Nerdage]

A deadline's a deadline, and by all accounts it seems they were pretty tough (the reused areas weren't just laziness). I'd think a unique model for one-off use in a largely unimportant 30 second scene takes low priority considering the conspicuous lack of female dwarfs and genlocks.

Considering the legendary Fox News Incident (2008 - 2008) ended with an official apology from the so-called 'expert' I think people over state its affect on Bioware, development concerns (especially in DA2, considering how fraught with issues it was at release) seem a much more likely culprit.

[FieryDove]

nerdage wrote...

Considering the legendary Fox News Incident (2008 - 2008) ended with an official apology from the so-called 'expert' I think people over state its affect on Bioware, development concerns (especially in DA2, considering how fraught with issues it was at release) seem a much more likely culprit.

It's not Bioware, its EA. I could even give examples of how they want everything family friendly.

nerdage wrote...

I seem to recall David Gaider saying at some point that the reason there was no topless Fenris was that they couldn't afford the time to make the model without cutting something else.

Yup

http://social.biowar...74192/1#6775105

Modifié par FieryDove, 23 août 2011 - 04:46 .

[Nerdage]

Thanks for finding the source. I don't like saying things like that without a source but short of searching "Fenris" and sifting through all the threads that returned I didn't know where to begin.

As for the EA thing, would that really apply to their 18+ games?

[LordKinoda]

I wanted that, too.

The artists looked at me with their sad eyes. "Do you really want us to create an entirely new torso with all those tattoos just for that one scene?"

"That's a stupid question. Of course I do."

"Sigh. Okay, what do you want to cut, then?"

"Oh, bother."

So that's how that conversation went. I guess Fenris dresses really quickly. Maybe he was thinking he would be stabbed? Not an unrealistic expectation.

Anyhow, glad you enjoyed the romance

Holy fracking dung [heh, I hate swear filters ]. Seriously ? That's just sad. Cut my arse. Somebody could make a mod RIGHT NOW that makes Fenris topless and NOTHING would have to be "cut" from the game to make it work. That is so pathetically lazy, I'm just truly stunned. Wow...

A deadline's a deadline, and by all accounts it seems they were pretty tough (the reused areas weren't just laziness).

Actually this the reasoning behind that:

In an interview with Game Informer (issue 217) regarding Dragon Age 2, Mike Laidlaw (lead designer for DA2) was posed this question:


GI: Many of the caves and building interiors are repated, even though the locations are supposed to be different. What kind of limitations necessitated this decision ?


ML: "In the balance of production, we realized that we had capacity to create and maintain more stories, content, and encounters than we could necessarily create unique levels for, so we made the call to re-use some of the caves and other levels in the interest of providing more sidequests and encounters."


One of the little tidbits I included in my Details thread "rant".

It's not Bioware, its EA. I could even give examples of how they want everything family friendly.

If that's true, and I'm so inclined to think it is, it's just asinine. How do you make a game created for adults "family friendly" without sacrificing quality ? Answer: You don't.

[FieryDove]

nerdage wrote...

Thanks for finding the source. I don't like saying things like that without a source but short of searching "Fenris" and sifting through all the threads that returned I didn't know where to begin.

As for the EA thing, would that really apply to their 18+ games?

You are welcome.

Truth be told they don't like the hassle of M games. Even ToR is going along the lines of G. I think its rated T or something.

LordKinoda wrote...

Holy fracking dung [heh, I hate swear filters ]. Seriously ? That's just sad. Cut my arse. Somebody could make a mod RIGHT NOW that makes Fenris topless and NOTHING would have to be "cut" from the game to make it work. That is so pathetically lazy, I'm just truly stunned. Wow...

It's not lazy. Very little $$/time from EA understand? I have no doubt they wanted to do lots more than what was completed.

I just say allow David to run the next one and give him *unlimited resoures*.

[Nerdage]

LordKinoda wrote...

I wanted that, too.

The artists looked at me with their sad eyes. "Do you really want us to create an entirely new torso with all those tattoos just for that one scene?"

"That's a stupid question. Of course I do."

"Sigh. Okay, what do you want to cut, then?"

"Oh, bother."

So that's how that conversation went. I guess Fenris dresses really quickly. Maybe he was thinking he would be stabbed? Not an unrealistic expectation.

Anyhow, glad you enjoyed the romance

Holy fracking dung [heh, I hate swear filters ]. Seriously ? That's just sad. Cut my arse. Somebody could make a mod RIGHT NOW that makes Fenris topless and NOTHING would have to be "cut" from the game to make it work. That is so pathetically lazy, I'm just truly stunned. Wow...

Cut as in 'time spent making a shirtless Fenris model is time not spent doing [x]', where they'd need to cut [x] to make the Fenris model, not some compatibility issue.

A deadline's a deadline, and by all accounts it seems they were pretty tough (the reused areas weren't just laziness).

Actually this the reasoning behind that:

In an interview with Game Informer (issue 217) regarding Dragon Age 2, Mike Laidlaw (lead designer for DA2) was posed this question:

GI: Many of the caves and building interiors are repated, even though the locations are supposed to be different. What kind of limitations necessitated this decision ?

ML: "In the balance of production, we realized that we had capacity to create and maintain more stories, content, and encounters than we could necessarily create unique levels for, so we made the call to re-use some of the caves and other levels in the interest of providing more sidequests and encounters."

One of the little tidbits I included in my Details thread "rant".

Exactly, it's the same principal. There was a greater need for areas than there was ability to make them, hence reused areas; and there was more need for models than there was ability to make them, hence the boots stay on.

Modifié par nerdage, 23 août 2011 - 05:15 .

[LordKinoda]

It's not lazy. Very little $$/time from EA understand? I have no doubt they wanted to do lots more than what was completed.

EA has so much money it's not even funny. And they can't say they were afraid to invest more capital in an "untested" franchise because the first one already blew up. So there is no excuse for the laziness.

I just say allow David to run the next one and give him *unlimited resoures*.

Alot of things would go better if they let the writers get more of what they want.

Cut as in 'time spent making a shirtless Fenris model is time not spent doing [x]', where they'd need to cut [x] to make the Fenris model, not some compatibility issue.

That just doesn't make sense for professional artists. They should be able to bang that out in an hour, maybe a couple, TOPS.

Exactly, it's the same principal. There was a greater need for areas than there was ability to make them, hence reused areas; and there was more need for models than there was ability to make them, hence the boots stay on.

Quality over quantity everytime in my book, as I've said before. This is just laziness, plain and simple. Only other logical reason is incompetance. If they don't have artists who can bang out a few models during a work day then they need to hire somebody who can. No excuses.

[Nerdage]

FieryDove wrote...

Truth be told they don't like the hassle of M games. Even ToR is going along the lines of G. I think its rated T or something.

That's a pretty reasonable rating for an MMO, to be fair. WoW, Rift, GW, all ESRB rated T, as was the original KotOR.

LordKinoda wrote...

That just doesn't make sense for professional artists. They should be able to bang that out in an hour, maybe a couple, TOPS.

I'm just going to admit I don't know much about the subject, I have no idea how long it takes to make and texture a 3D character model, but I maintain shirtless/naked models for romances are a low priority compared to some of the things that were missing.

Quality over quantity everytime in my book, as I've said before. This is just laziness, plain and simple. Only other logical reason is incompetance. If they don't have artists who can bang out a few models during a work day then they need to hire somebody who can. No excuses.

And I'll plead ignorance again, here. Plus, I just don't want to get into that subject.

Modifié par nerdage, 23 août 2011 - 05:37 .

[LordKinoda]

I'm just going admit I don't know much about the subject, I have no idea how long it takes to make and texture a 3D character model,

Texturing doesn't take long at all. It's really simple, especially for a skilled artist. Modelling is a little more complex, but that too only takes a few hours for a good artist. One only has to look up some YouTube videos on Zbrush to see this. Surely they have some comparable type of program for game design, if they don't use that one itself. Yes most of those videos are time-lapsed obviously, but I'm reletively certain that it's measured in hours and not days.

but I maintain shirtless/naked models for romances are a low priority compared to some of the things that were missing.

Heh, that's not the point. It's the principal, not just a shirtless Fenris , but the lack of attention to the details, as I put into my thoughts in the above linked thread. HERE it is again.

Modifié par LordKinoda, 23 août 2011 - 08:21 .

[FieryDove]

LordKinoda wrote...

EA has so much money it's not even funny. And they can't say they were afraid to invest more capital in an "untested" franchise because the first one already blew up. So there is no excuse for the laziness.

EA has been hemmoraging money for quite some time due to ToR. DA2 was a get it out now so we can grab as much $$ as we can because our bottom line isn’t looking so good to stockholders atm. Not to mention ME3 was pushed back what...9 months or so for mainly a gimmick. Kinect or whatever that thing is. I imagine MS paid a good chunck to get that deal but it still is costing EA through the nose to delay a game that long. No matter the reason.

Bioware always has in the past and present made the best game they can with the resources (money/time) they have available.

Sometimes I disagree with some "visions" on how a game should be or changes but that's a different matter all together. I have never considered them lazy because I dislike the new elves so much I could never play one in a future game as they are currently portrayed. My fault for having too many Dalish wardens I guess. lol

sigh

[LordKinoda]

EA has been hemmoraging money for quite some time due to ToR.

They'll make back every red cent they spent on that game in the the first few months. It's Star Wars. Nuff said. You don't have to be a market anaylst to know that that game is going to blow up. Even if it somehow ending up sucking badly (which is so highly unlikely) it would hold plenty enough players until the servers shut down to make back their investment and then some.

So if rushing DA2 out to get money to pay for TOR is the reason for DA2's shortcummings they really need to start re-thinking their line of career. Because if they don't have the common sense to know they'll make tons of money off a Star Wars game, an MMO Star Wars game mind you, where players pay EACH month to play it and to buy the game itself; and any future expansions, then they shouldn't be making games. Either that, or hire new market analysts who do have common sense to go along with their skills if they are that clueless.

Bioware always has in the past and present made the best game they can with the resources (money/time) they have available.

I can agree with that. But not for DA2. It's reached a tipping point, and they know that. I don't hate the game mind you, I just realize that it's potential was wasted.

I have never considered them lazy

I didn't either. Until I read that comment. And that comment makes me think they didn't only do it for shirtless Fenris, but for many other aspects as well. Which, when added together, brings the whole of the game down.

[Ellen86]

I just want to tell that I support that DA should have more intimate and nude lovescenes. Not porn ofc as many said, but still make love as u make love. I missed that in DA2.

Btw I really really hope that we continue as Hawke in DA3, I got very attached to my Hawke and I dont want to lose her  It would crush my heart!
Whats the point in developing a character just to have it gone in the next game?

Anyway, I hope they develop romances(and love/sex scenes) in DA3 since its one of the things in the game that I really love.

Have a nice day
E