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Religion should play a bigger role


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#301
Guest_Saphra Deden_*

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marshalleck wrote...

Actually, people in the West are getting fat, not "somewhat healthier."

Thanks McDonald's, and industrial junk food.


It's not McDonald's fault, it's the people who lack the self control to eat better.


In any case, the religions of Mass Effect don't interest me much because I don't think any of them are true. I do like Ashley's example though because it is used to teach us something about humanity and how it has changed in 200 years.

If it were to be fully fleshed out I'd love to learn more about alien mythologies, but I don't think that will happen.

#302
MrFob

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What exactly do you by "[Ahs] is used to teach us something about humanity and how it has changed in 200 years."?
In my experience there people like Ahs all over world right now.
And no, I don't want to rekindle the religion debate, just am interested in what Saphra meant there.

On topic: I posted this a couple of pages back but I'll say it gain, as long as they refer to religious beliefs of characters and use that to flesh out the characters, I am all for it (as long as it doesn't dominate of course).

#303
Guest_Saphra Deden_*

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It's the way Ashley presents her faith to you. She is nervous and uncomfortable. She reveals that most people are weird-ed out by it. That tells us a lot about how human society has changed. (without changing at all)

#304
MrFob

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Yeah, maybe you are right. I felt that we are already strongly going towards that direction today. It probably depends strongly on your personal environment though. Anyway, if such subtle cultural changes are addressed, it can only be good for any SciFi franchise since it adds some credibility and authenticity to the scenario.

#305
atheelogos

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ThePwener wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

I feel it's a part of why people tend to dislike Ashley, but that's just my opinion.


actually, it's because most see her as a racist ignorant. I see her as a racist myself. But this isn't a character discussion. On topic, this thread can stay civil, humans can surprise you now and then.

It's all for fun, no need to throw hatred and discord around.

No it's the religion too, at least for some of us it is.

#306
JBONE27

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ThePwener wrote...

Religion, a pretty controversial topic right? Well Im here, once again, to bring it up.

Wathever you're an atheist, christian, buddhist, believe in aliens or really don't care either way, this may interest you.

Religion exists in ME in all corners of the galaxy. From the Turian's "warrior ghosts" and "believe wathever you want as long as you serve the goverment", to the Asari's goddesses, all the way to the widely atheist Salarians.

Humans are probably the most culturally diverse out of them all. I myself believe in God, but accept that evolution is a fact in the ME universe and that there is no God either, as there are other alien races that came after and before humanity which do not know of Jesus Christ.

What surprises me the most is the fact that this did not cause a riot by the Catholic Church and every other major God believing group in Earth. Every 50,000 - 100,000 years the Reapers descend upon the Milky Way to eradicate every trace of sentient life that evolves and achieves space flight. This alone proves that evolution is real in the ME universe.

In ME1, Shepard can be asked by Ashley Williams if he believes in God. Shepard can respond in a manner of ways, but what surprises me is that she only mentioned the grand expanse of space as her proof when alien life with they're own religions alone should be enough for atheist groups in Earth to refute the existance of a God in a massive scale  and cause everyone to doubt.

It also seems that every other religion is also full of bunk. The asari believe in Goddesses that seem to work a lot like the christian God, with the exception that they believe them to be female (strange since prior to meeting the Salarians in the Citadel, they knew only one sex, so the term "goddesses" would be incorrect, but enough time has passed for them to have changed it to suit them better).

What is most interesting is the direct reference made to the religion by Liara's mother, Benezia. Just before dying, she falls and says "there is no light.... they said there would be a light" which is obviously BW hinting to us that they're religion is total bunk. 

The Salarians on the other hand seem to be open minded, but reserve more to being science and logic minded. There is a religion among the Salarians that is deemed a cult by the alien Council that worships a goddes and there's also the whole thing with the Geth running experiments on space religions and carving a face on a damn planet. They are also hinted to believe in reincarnation by Liara T'soni.

The Turians on the other hand believe in "spirits" that inspire the living to act in good or bad ways, but the spirits themselves do not have morality. 
 
Taken from the ME wiki - In the past, turians believed that titans strode across Palaven, reaching for the heavens. They worshiped these deities and communicated with them at a structure called Temple Palaven. The temple was tended to by a religious order called the Valluvian Priests, who wear special purple robes which obscure their forms. In order for turians to join this order, they had to be considered worthy enough through some action. When the turians spread out from Palaven and discovered other life among the stars, however, they sealed Temple Palaven because they no longer needed legends to prod them upward. With the temple abandoned, eventually the Valluvian Priests fell into legend.

The batarians believe in the afterlife, but apperantly not in a specific god or superior entity. The Hanar worship the "Enkindlers" who they claim brought them up. The Enkindlers being the Protheans, but we know better. The Volus are never stated to believe in anything, but many claim they worship an entity called "cash" or "creds".

The Quarians believe in the wisdom of they're anscestors, prior to the Morning War, they created personality imprints of they're dead so that they're wisdom would live on and lead the new generations. These databanks were destroyed in the Geth rebellions, some Quarians believing it to be punishment for they're hubris in making themselves immortal.

Taken from the ME wiki - Tali sometimes exclaims "Keelah!" when shocked; in Mass Effect 2 many quarians offer the phrase "Keelah se'lai" as an apparent benediction or religious oath. This word may refer to a figure in quarian religion, or it may be part of their reverence toward their ancestors. It is often said in the same vein as "peace be with you" and resembles the Islamic الله أكبر (transliteration: Allāhu Akbar, English: 'God is Greatest'), the Christian Deus Vult (Latin for 'God Wills It'), or the Hebraic "ברוך אתה אדוני" (transliteration: Baruch Atta Adonai, English: 'Blessed are you, God').


The Elcor aren't specified by a religion either, even though they fit the bill very well.

Taken from the ME wiki - Prehistoric elcor travelled across Dekuuna in large tribal groups. These groups were likely led by the oldest and most experienced elcor. This may have later developed into the elcor culture of Elders, whose wisdom could keep the tribe safe provided they followed the correct guidance.

Like the Quarias, ancestry and wisdom seem to be an important part of Elcor culture.

The Drell seem to be the most religious race in current ME times. Thane Krios's entire line of thought and actions seem to be influenced in one way or another by they're religion.

Taken from the ME wiki
- Drell are deeply religious, believing that they have souls separate from their bodies. They see death as a departure from the body, and they also state that a person's body and soul form a Whole. When the soul is traumatized or otherwise disrupted, or the body is ill or injured, a person is no longer Whole. They also believe that their body can be directed as a separate entity from themselves, in the case of Thane Krios taking no responsibility for his numerous killings, which were ordered by the hanar. The drell religion is also polytheistic, with the drell having multiple gods whom they pray to in varying situations. This religion included at least three gods: Amonkira, Lord of Hunters; Arashu, Goddess of Motherhood and Protection; and Kalahira, Goddess of Oceans and Afterlife.

Many of the older traditions of the drell have begun to die out. The younger generations no longer believe the old ways of their ancestors can help them now, with so many other ways to interpret one's place in the universe. Many drell have embraced the hanar Enkindlers or the asari philosophies.

The krogan aren't strong believers in anything, but they exhibit a ritualistic or tribal way of life that brings belief as part of the territory.

Taken from the ME wiki - Krogan are not shown to have strong religious beliefs. The closest they come is to establish ritualistic burial grounds called the Hollows, where the skulls of their ancestors are displayed to remind them of "where we all come from, and where we all go." The Hollows are as sacred as any krogan place can be, and violence there is forbidden. Several krogan also mention a place called "the Void" which seems to be the krogan version of the afterlife.

Either they don't want to share they're beliefs with aliens or aren't strongly tied to them as the krogan as mostly spread out and few seem to want to live in Tuchanka, thus they're believes are apparently diminishing.

The Geth (yes, they are in this list) are AI, yet they worshipped Sovereign, believing it to be the apex of independent AI evolution and they're own destiny to imput themselves into a Reaper as well. They created shrines that resemble a Reaper's tentacles and bowed to them. This however seems strange as AIs don't follow faith but logic.


That sums up the religion in the ME universe. Take it as you will and if you do comment, don't create a religious war here and just calmly discuss and evaluate. after all, this is all just for fun.

 

There are a few flaws with your synopsis.  
1.  We are never given any clue as to how the Asari godess works (unless you count the belief in an afterlife, which isn't exclusive to Christianity), so to say that it is analogis to the Christian one is pure speculation.  
2.  It was Mordin who suggested that Salarians believe in reincarnation not Liara (it makes more sense if he says it anyway considering he is a salarian, and she seemed to mainly study extinct and pre-spaceflight cultures with no indicaton that she ever studied Salarian culture).  
3. Evolution is a fact in the real world not just in Mass Effect.  Every scrap of evidence we have found in biology points to evolution being accurate.  
4.  Technically neither Atheism nor belief in aliens (unless you mean Scientology) are religions since within both (Atheism=lack of belief in gods, beilef in aliens=belief that life does exist on other planets) have no dogma, no holy writings, no mythology to base their beliefs (or lack there of) on.  Without at the very least a dogma, I'm pretty sure it cannot be classifide as a religion.

Other than that, this is an intelligent and well written synopsis.

#307
atheelogos

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Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Javier edited his post.

Ok, here is a question. If they were to explore the religion and spirituality of one culture more deeply, which would it be?

They haven't spoken much about the Turian's religion so I wouldn't mind hearing more about that.

#308
JBONE27

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Golden Owl wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

lightsnow13 wrote...

(The thing about Benezia...it wasn't BW saying "there is no religion" it was more of Benezia going down the wrong path and because of it she didn't get into her "heaven")


Yes, but with so many different religions, what makes her's more valid then the Turian's or Salarian's? That's the way I see it, but this thread is meant for all interpretations.


What's more the point is we are all individuals looking at the same picture...like watching a movie, playing a game, etc...Each of us interprets the same picture in a huge array of different ways, that doesn't make anyone more right or wrong, it's just a matter of indivdual/cultral perspective.

 OMG You're a geth sleeper agent.  lol J/K.  If you are just adressing world views, and not things that are proven, then I wholeheartedly agree with you.

#309
Grand Admiral Cheesecake

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ThePwener wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Where do Satan and Hell fit into it?  A few men wrote a book a few thousand years ago speaking of such things - and looking at their description, it seems likely that the simply stole the idea from classic Norse Mythology (see Hel).  Is it the book and nothing else, that convinces you of such things?


I hate to continue the topic, but I'll clarify. Mythology came AFTET God and hell. For all we know, mythology took FROM christianity.


:blush:
You do realize that many of the world's religions are far older than Christianity yes?

#310
Grand Admiral Cheesecake

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100k wrote...

So, what do you guys think the asari philosophies, which are apparently popular, entail?

Space tramping it up.

#311
MassStorm

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No in an hi-tech society with rationality and science, there is no place for religion

#312
LilyasAvalon

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The only problem with this idea is that we'd undoubtably have to suffer through ANOTHER Fox hissyfit over it. Image IPB

Modifié par LilyasAvalon, 09 août 2011 - 08:38 .


#313
didymos1120

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Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

:blush:
You do realize that many of the world's religions are far older than Christianity yes?


Just don't ask.  Trust me: the answer is just going to disappoint you.

#314
LilyasAvalon

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Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...
:blush:
You do realize that many of the world's religions are far older than Christianity yes?

Christianity is indeed the baby of religions when you consider what has been practised for thousands of years previously.

#315
Grand Admiral Cheesecake

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LilyasAvalon wrote...

The only problem with this idea is that we'd undoubtably have to suffer through ANOTHER Fox hissyfit over it. Image IPB

That's what I like to call "Free ad time".
Tell people not to do something and the natural response is to do it.

#316
armass

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There's always going to be religion of some sort, only a race of intelligent machines can have a civilization without any religion.

If they want to bring more religion in, it's ok by me. I believe in God or some higher force in the universe, so i support religions as long as they don't try to deny some things, like the existance of alien life for example and don't promote violence.

Modifié par armass, 09 août 2011 - 08:44 .


#317
LilyasAvalon

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Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

The only problem with this idea is that we'd undoubtably have to suffer through ANOTHER Fox hissyfit over it. Image IPB

That's what I like to call "Free ad time".
Tell people not to do something and the natural response is to do it.

I'm not worried about the people who are watching it, I have more faith in them, I'm talking about that b%$#@ of a blonde who whines about something she saw on Youtube acting like she's the Queen of England. Pisses me off. Image IPB

#318
Spatchmo

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Religion could add a lot to the story as long as it wasn't shoe horned in. A sci-fi RPG with overt religious references makes me instantly think of Xenosaga, and that's not a good thing. Those games, and their story were both really really terrible.

#319
SandTrout

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LilyasAvalon wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...
:blush:
You do realize that many of the world's religions are far older than Christianity yes?

Christianity is indeed the baby of religions when you consider what has been practised for thousands of years previously.

Technically, Neo-Peganism is the newest religion, but I don't think they qualify for 'major' status. Of the 'major' religions, Islam is the 'baby', having emerged at around 700 AD, IIRC.

On topic: I am more currious about individuals' religion than I am about the societies'. When dealing with populations as large as we are in ME, only the broadest generalizations can be made regarding religious practices. With individuals you can actually go in-depth(IE: Ashley, Thane)

I am very currious as to Garrus's spiritual leanings, though I woundn't be surprised if he happens to be an atheist.

#320
Grand Admiral Cheesecake

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LilyasAvalon wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

The only problem with this idea is that we'd undoubtably have to suffer through ANOTHER Fox hissyfit over it. Image IPB

That's what I like to call "Free ad time".
Tell people not to do something and the natural response is to do it.

I'm not worried about the people who are watching it, I have more faith in them, I'm talking about that b%$#@ of a blonde who whines about something she saw on Youtube acting like she's the Queen of England. Pisses me off. Image IPB

Don't let it anger you!
Enjoy the stupidity!
You know the same way we all tolerate BSN.

Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 09 août 2011 - 08:46 .


#321
LilyasAvalon

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SandTrout wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...
:blush:
You do realize that many of the world's religions are far older than Christianity yes?

Christianity is indeed the baby of religions when you consider what has been practised for thousands of years previously.

Technically, Neo-Peganism is the newest religion, but I don't think they qualify for 'major' status. Of the 'major' religions, Islam is the 'baby', having emerged at around 700 AD, IIRC.

On topic: I am more currious about individuals' religion than I am about the societies'. When dealing with populations as large as we are in ME, only the broadest generalizations can be made regarding religious practices. With individuals you can actually go in-depth(IE: Ashley, Thane)

I am very currious as to Garrus's spiritual leanings, though I woundn't be surprised if he happens to be an atheist.

That's so cute! We need like a daycare centre set up for Religions. Image IPB No, I'm not kidding, I'm a Hetalia/XP-tan fangirl.

Anyway, Garrus did say he was a 'bad turian', he probably is athiest.

#322
PnXMarcin1PL

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No, religions should not play any role in game. This is my opinion.

#323
Boiny Bunny

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I presume that the discovery of other sentient alien life, which has it's own set of religions, none of which directly resemble Earth religions, would cause great turmoil amongst religious people on Earth.

ME doesn't really specify what the religious state of Earth (or humanity as a whole) is, but (to me at least) gives the impression that since the Mass Relays and alien races were discovered, the proportion of humans that are religious has dropped dramatically.

Ash does indeed seem very uncomfortable bringing it up, and is sure to check, immediately after revealing that she is religious, that Shepard is still happy to work with her.

As for the other species, I would have liked to see a little more religious diversity. I can understand one or two of the races having only one faith that they follow, but surely a few of them should have multiple faiths, conflicting or not?

#324
string3r

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No. Mass Effect isn't Dragon Age.

#325
Grand Admiral Cheesecake

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string3r wrote...

No. Mass Effect isn't Dragon Age.

That's a good thing.
The Templars would go ape-sh*t over Biotics being allowed to walk around free...Like they're people!!! The nerve of some Societies!