523 réponses à ce sujet

[Davie McG]

Chris Priestly wrote...

We do have religion in our games, but only in the context of how it fits into the game world. For example, in Dragon Age there is discussion about the Maker, the Chantry the battles between a controlling church and mages, etc. It is an important part of the Dragon Age setting so it is germain to the game.

We have touched gently on religion in the Mass Effect series as well (remember the worshiping geth in ME1?), but in general, it is not germain to the game. Whether Shepard is of a religion or not or other characters or whatever is just not important to the game in the same manner as in Dragon Age. It isn't so much a matter of worrying about annoying a group (like Christians, Muslims, Fox News, parents, etc) as it is that it just isn't an important part of the series.

I understand what your saying, and I wouldn't want Shepard to state his religious belifies as a dialogue option, as there are so many - even in the mass effect universe - that it wouldn't really be fair to limit our options via a the dialogue wheel.

The kind of thing I'd be interested to see is evidence of how religion has shaped other cultures, as it has played a huge part in the construction of our own civilisations. I know religions aren't hugely important to Shepard in his mission to save the galaxy from the reapers, but it has been used to give us idea about alien cultures, to better understand them. I think now that we are visting the home worlds of these planets (ecpecially if we get to see the hanar home world - would love to see that planet religion or no) it would be nice to learn a bit more about their culture and beliefs, even if it's a small reference or a diary on a data pad or something.

I don't want Mass Effect to become centered on religion, even as a Catholic, I appreciate that people of many beliefs will play this game and it would be daft to alienate them. It's the other alien cultures that interest me, and I think what has been explored religion wise with Thane and Mordin, the Krogan, the Asari could be tastefully handled and expanded upon. I think quite a number of people would enjoy learning about that and as it would be optional those who don't wouldn't have it forced upon them.

At least that's my view of it. 

Edit: typos.

I also quite enjoy the tongue in cheek characters like the preaching Hanar in the first game, and the Prophet Batarian in the second game. Although in times as scary as they are in mass effect I imagine you would see quite a bit of that.

Modifié par Davie McG, 09 août 2011 - 05:12 .

[Whatever42]

Shepard does state their religious views in ME1, though, in a conversation with Ashley. You can define your Shepard as a believer or even mock belief. It just doesn't play a role in the story, which is good.

[In Exile]

Chris Priestly wrote...
We have touched gently on religion in the Mass Effect series as well (remember the worshiping geth in ME1?), but in general, it is not germain to the game. Whether Shepard is of a religion or not or other characters or whatever is just not important to the game in the same manner as in Dragon Age. It isn't so much a matter of worrying about annoying a group (like Christians, Muslims, Fox News, parents, etc) as it is that it just isn't an important part of the series.

Shepard came back from the dead. That's...metaphysically hardcore. To quote Jacob, "dead as dead can be" and coming back is really, really serious business, and I think it requires at least some religious address. 

[JBONE27]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

You do realize that many of the world's religions are far older than Christianity yes?

Christianity is indeed the baby of religions when you consider what has been practised for thousands of years previously.

 Perhaps a baby, but Islam and Scientology are still newer religions (unless you count Mormonism as different than Christianity.)

[Iron Waffle]

I'd be curious to see what our various squadmates' beliefs are. We know Ashley is some kind of monotheist, most likely Christian. The fact that she doesn't specify anything but belief in a God makes me suspect she is more spiritual than devout.

Mordin explored various religions to cope with his work on the genophage update, but found no answers, many questions. If I recall correctly, LotSB files tell us he's made talks about faith and science, but this doesn't answer much. I'm willing to bet he's a nontheist at this point.

Tali frequently references "Keelah", but this may be more indicative of Quarian culture than actual spiritual beliefs. I know plenty of atheists (including myself) who say "Oh my God" or phrases similar. This is probably just an element of their language, but who knows?

Liara is said to be quite religious, as the daughter of a Matriarch. However, we see nothing in game to really solidify that idea, save her occasional reference to the Goddess. As said before, this might just be Asari language at work.

Grunt just woke up, and there's no way Okeer spent resources making him religious. He's an atheist by default, having no experience with religion.

Judging from Wrex's comments on the Geth on Feros worshipping that Reaper-orb-thing, he's doesn't care about religion. He also says he's not superstitious. Wrex is an atheist (or perhaps an apatheist).

Thane is, obviously, extremely devout, much more so than Ashley. He prays to his various dieties before and after an assassination. He believes strongly in the concept of duelism, which says that the mind and body are separate entities, that work independently. He also places spiritual significance on the ocean, no doubt influenced by the hanar.

Samara is a Justicar, described as a kind of religious warrior by definition. Her Code resembles a Holy Book, especially considering her unshakable devotion to it. Yet it is important to note that her Code, from what little we know about it, makes no mention whatsoever to afterlife or the supernatural. It exists to kill the wicked, as defined by the Justicars. Her case is ambiguous at best.

The rest are totally unknown. I wouldn't mind if we learned what, say, Garrus or Kaidan believe, but it's not important. With the Reapers descending, I'm sure many people of every species will turn to their gods for help. To not witness, or aknowledge this, would be unrealistic.

However, religion is not all that important to the series. It's nice to have some thought-provoking references sprinkled in the dialogue, but as a genre, SciFi doesn't need it.

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

In Exile wrote...

Shepard came back from the dead. That's...metaphysically hardcore. To quote Jacob, "dead as dead can be" and coming back is really, really serious business, and I think it requires at least some religious address. 

But then you risk antagonizing people who are in a resurrection cult, such as christians. Him being dead and coming back to life has caused enough stir as it is, if you want to delve into a religious/metaphysical discussion about it, IN-GAME, you will turn off certain groups of fans. Not smart.

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

JBONE27 wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

You do realize that many of the world's religions are far older than Christianity yes?

Christianity is indeed the baby of religions when you consider what has been practised for thousands of years previously.

 Perhaps a baby, but Islam and Scientology are still newer religions (unless you count Mormonism as different than Christianity.)

Not to mention Jediism.

[JBONE27]

CrazyCatDude wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

@whatever,

I consider myself a reasonably smart and scientifically minded person, but astrophysics and quantum physics both make my brain hurt.

As someone with a degree in Physics with a focus in Astronomy, allow me to assure you, that means you're doing it right.

 Who was it who said, "If you think you understand quantum phsyics, you don't understand it at all?"

[JBONE27]

Spaghetti_Ninja wrote...

JBONE27 wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

You do realize that many of the world's religions are far older than Christianity yes?

Christianity is indeed the baby of religions when you consider what has been practised for thousands of years previously.

 Perhaps a baby, but Islam and Scientology are still newer religions (unless you count Mormonism as different than Christianity.)

Not to mention Jediism.

 No, Jediism was started a long time ago in a galaxy far away.  Lol.

[Davie McG]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Shepard does state their religious views in ME1, though, in a conversation with Ashley. You can define your Shepard as a believer or even mock belief. It just doesn't play a role in the story, which is good.

That's true but it was just whether he believes in God, If I remember correctly ashley wondered aloud or asked what his actual beliefs were but a direct answer was never given.

Although thats just from the top of my head so I may be mistaken.

I agree that it shouldn't be an important role in the main story. I think, well i've completely forgotten what I was about to say so I don't know what I think.. nope it's gone, ah well, couldn't have been that important.

[Erani]

JBONE27 wrote...

 Who was it who said, "If you think you understand quantum phsyics, you don't understand it at all?"

I think John Wheeler, Richard Feynman and Niels Bohr all made comments along those lines. 
[/list]

[General User]

JBONE27 wrote...

CrazyCatDude wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

@whatever,

I consider myself a reasonably smart and scientifically minded person, but astrophysics and quantum physics both make my brain hurt.

As someone with a degree in Physics with a focus in Astronomy, allow me to assure you, that means you're doing it right.

 Who was it who said, "If you think you understand quantum phsyics, you don't understand it at all?"

The way I heard it, it is only possible to understand quantum physics if you don't try to directly study it.

[mauro2222]

ThePwener wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

What you've said there really has no relevance to science.  According to the science, evolution takes place over  extended periods of time.  If you have any interest in how land animals came to be, I suggest you do some research.  'Fish' did not one day flop onto a beach and all of a sudden grow lungs and legs.

Here's the thing. If evolution occurs out of necessity for survival, then that means the fish ran out of water. If the fish ran out of water, it must have died, not evolved. It really makes no sense. If there is water, why would it need to evolve?

Also, if Humans evolved from primates, how are there still monkeys around? Why didn't those evolve either? also, there is not a single shred of evidence that evolution exists. It's a theory passed as fact. Nothing more.

I can´t believe this... xD

Modifié par mauro2222, 09 août 2011 - 05:29 .

[JBONE27]

Iron Waffle wrote...

I'd be curious to see what our various squadmates' beliefs are. We know Ashley is some kind of monotheist, most likely Christian. The fact that she doesn't specify anything but belief in a God makes me suspect she is more spiritual than devout.

Mordin explored various religions to cope with his work on the genophage update, but found no answers, many questions. If I recall correctly, LotSB files tell us he's made talks about faith and science, but this doesn't answer much. I'm willing to bet he's a nontheist at this point.

Tali frequently references "Keelah", but this may be more indicative of Quarian culture than actual spiritual beliefs. I know plenty of atheists (including myself) who say "Oh my God" or phrases similar. This is probably just an element of their language, but who knows?

Liara is said to be quite religious, as the daughter of a Matriarch. However, we see nothing in game to really solidify that idea, save her occasional reference to the Goddess. As said before, this might just be Asari language at work.

Grunt just woke up, and there's no way Okeer spent resources making him religious. He's an atheist by default, having no experience with religion.

Judging from Wrex's comments on the Geth on Feros worshipping that Reaper-orb-thing, he's doesn't care about religion. He also says he's not superstitious. Wrex is an atheist (or perhaps an apatheist).

Thane is, obviously, extremely devout, much more so than Ashley. He prays to his various dieties before and after an assassination. He believes strongly in the concept of duelism, which says that the mind and body are separate entities, that work independently. He also places spiritual significance on the ocean, no doubt influenced by the hanar.

Samara is a Justicar, described as a kind of religious warrior by definition. Her Code resembles a Holy Book, especially considering her unshakable devotion to it. Yet it is important to note that her Code, from what little we know about it, makes no mention whatsoever to afterlife or the supernatural. It exists to kill the wicked, as defined by the Justicars. Her case is ambiguous at best.

The rest are totally unknown. I wouldn't mind if we learned what, say, Garrus or Kaidan believe, but it's not important. With the Reapers descending, I'm sure many people of every species will turn to their gods for help. To not witness, or aknowledge this, would be unrealistic.

However, religion is not all that important to the series. It's nice to have some thought-provoking references sprinkled in the dialogue, but as a genre, SciFi doesn't need it.

 
I'm reasonably sure that Jack is anti-religious (either a positive atheist or an antitheist).  Legion is a robot, and dislikes the creators (the quarians), but I'm not sure that counts as a religion.  The rest of them, there aren't even any clues, I mean I could venture to guess that Kasumi is an atheist (considering the current religious state of Japan, and the seeming inclination towards atheism in the ME universe).  Zaeed, Miranda, Jacob, Kaiden, Garrus, and Vega... I have litterally no idea about.

[CrimsonQueen]

I don't care as long as it's not a big point in the game. I personally think that there is something out there but not just one 'God'. I'm of the 'if I can see and touch it then it's real' kinda deal.

[JBONE27]

ThePwener wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

What you've said there really has no relevance to science.  According to the science, evolution takes place over  extended periods of time.  If you have any interest in how land animals came to be, I suggest you do some research.  'Fish' did not one day flop onto a beach and all of a sudden grow lungs and legs.

Here's the thing. If evolution occurs out of necessity for survival, then that means the fish ran out of water. If the fish ran out of water, it must have died, not evolved. It really makes no sense. If there is water, why would it need to evolve?

Also, if Humans evolved from primates, how are there still monkeys around? Why didn't those evolve either? also, there is not a single shred of evidence that evolution exists. It's a theory passed as fact. Nothing more.

Is this a joke?  If not, it's facepalm worthy.  
Adressing your first point, fish didn't 'run out of water,' they most likely found a more pleantiful food supply by the shore and eventually evolved to move on dry land to find even more food.
Your second point shows a complete lack of knowledge.  Humans are primates.  We evolved from the same ancestors as other primates (lemurs, monkies, and apes).  We all evolved, just in different ways.

[JBONE27]

Erani wrote...

JBONE27 wrote...

 Who was it who said, "If you think you understand quantum phsyics, you don't understand it at all?"

I think John Wheeler, Richard Feynman and Niels Bohr all made comments along those lines. 
[/list]

 Thank you, that was bugging me Bohr was who I was thinking of.

[Sabotin]

I think it's better that they stay away from it. I feel that even in light forms it wouldn't add to the game, but instead inadvertently make the game about it.

[didymos1120]

Erani wrote...

JBONE27 wrote...

 Who was it who said, "If you think you understand quantum phsyics, you don't understand it at all?"

I think John Wheeler, Richard Feynman and Niels Bohr all made comments along those lines. 
[/list]

To wit:
"For those who are not shocked when they first come across quantum theory cannot possibly have understood it." -- Niels Bohr

"I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics." -- Richard Feynman

Not aware of any Wheeler one though.

[didymos1120]

JBONE27 wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

Also, if Humans evolved from primates, how are there still monkeys around? Why didn't those evolve either? also, there is not a single shred of evidence that evolution exists. It's a theory passed as fact. Nothing more.

Your second point shows a complete lack of knowledge.  Humans are primates.  We evolved from the same ancestors as other primates (lemurs, monkies, and apes).  We all evolved, just in different ways.

Here's how I like to address that one: "If I'm descended from my grandparents, then why do I still have cousins?"  

[JBONE27]

darknoon5 wrote...

As an atheist I wouldn't object, though I would like to see both rational and irrational religous people *coughthepwner*.

Also, I'd like to see the impact of Reaper invasion on people's faith, human and alien alike. Althougth ME3 will do fine without out it, it could be a nice touch if it's subtle, not overbearing and doesn't lean heavily towards the "religion is evil" or "religion is good" side of things.

 I agree, and think subtlety is the operative word here.  Overall, I would hate it if Bioware pulled a litteral Deus Ex Machina, and brought the Sari godess or the gods of the Drell pantion (or whatever) down against the reapers... that would be both stupid and a cop-out.

[JBONE27]

didymos1120 wrote...

JBONE27 wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

Also, if Humans evolved from primates, how are there still monkeys around? Why didn't those evolve either? also, there is not a single shred of evidence that evolution exists. It's a theory passed as fact. Nothing more.

Your second point shows a complete lack of knowledge.  Humans are primates.  We evolved from the same ancestors as other primates (lemurs, monkies, and apes).  We all evolved, just in different ways.

Here's how I like to address that one: "If I'm descended from my grandparents, then why do I still have cousins?"  

 Good one.

[mauro2222]

Bleh, let's make it easier... No religion.
Organized and collective faith is trouble always. Faith is something personal, is a philosophy.

Believe in god, in gods, don't believe in anything, choose the one you want and be happy. Is your happiness. But don't be ignorant, you can learn a lot of things and still believe in something. Evolution never says "GOD DOESN'T EXISTS" it only explains how we come to be what we are now.

Modifié par mauro2222, 09 août 2011 - 06:00 .

[Davie McG]

JBONE27 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

JBONE27 wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

Also, if Humans evolved from primates, how are there still monkeys around? Why didn't those evolve either? also, there is not a single shred of evidence that evolution exists. It's a theory passed as fact. Nothing more.

Your second point shows a complete lack of knowledge.  Humans are primates.  We evolved from the same ancestors as other primates (lemurs, monkies, and apes).  We all evolved, just in different ways.

Here's how I like to address that one: "If I'm descended from my grandparents, then why do I still have cousins?"  

 Good one.

If you don't want this thread to be locked I'd end any evolution debates, it was locked yesterday because of that very debate.

It's only allowed to be open on the grounds people stay away from this discussion.

A bit ot tolerance of others beliefs would go a long way here people.

[Benchpress610]

JBONE27 wrote...

Erani wrote...

JBONE27 wrote...

 Who was it who said, "If you think you understand quantum phsyics, you don't understand it at all?"

I think John Wheeler, Richard Feynman and Niels Bohr all made comments along those lines. 
[/list]

 Thank you, that was bugging me Bohr was who I was thinking of.

Sorry to interject here but I would’ve sworn his comment was about “Relativity”, not Quantum Physics as “When you think you understand Relativity…you realize you don’t”. But it’s been a long time since I’ve touched the subject.