523 réponses à ce sujet

[Halfdan The Menace]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Mecha Tengu wrote...

 

The Japanese have giant space buddhas in their RPGs. Why can't we get stuff like this

I'll see your giant space Buddha and raise you a giant space Shiva:



                                                   "May Jubileus, the Creator, grace you!"

[FataliTensei]

My shep's an atheist so he doesn't give a **** about any of that crap.

[JBONE27]

ReconTeam wrote...

xXRevan0515Xx wrote...
fox news = evil incarnate

I must have missed that time Jesus came down and raised MSNBC or CNN to God's right hand status. <_<

 Not to get on a rant here, but whoever said that one of the other 24 hour news channels was goodness incarnate.  For example, Bill is a cereal killer who rapes children and eats their corpses.  His neighbor Bob is a drunk who cheats on his wife.  Which one is more evil than the other?

[lovgreno]

jamesp81 wrote...

Radahldo wrote...

Must we always live in fear of fox news

Seriously?  That particular line of complaining is getting really old.  Even for BSN, and that's saying something.

Nah, we should welcome news rage as it gives the game free PR.

[Vyse_Fina]

From what I can tell ME2 has quite a few Bible references already. They are just not specifially pointed out to the player. I believe Bioware avoided religion in general and instead took classic religious controversies for some moral choices and setups and removed the religious context from them. A smart move in my opinion, because that way they avoided massive bashing from fans, the public, the media, the church and everyone else who likes to get involved in religious topics.


@space buddah:
That is not from an jRPG. It's from a God of War Clone called Ashura's Wrath. It's made by Capcom and appearently tries to break the world record for "most quicktime events in one game"

Modifié par Vyse_Fina, 09 août 2011 - 08:55 .

[didymos1120]

Captain_Obvious wrote...

To me, use of the word "Lazarus" is no more than a passing reference or nod to the Lazarus Pits that Ra's al Ghul uses in the Batman comic books to rejuvenate himself.  

You seriously think that was an allusion to Batman? Uh-huh. And Legion's name was really an X-Men reference.

Modifié par didymos1120, 09 août 2011 - 09:00 .

[JBONE27]

Vyse_Fina wrote...

From what I can tell ME2 has quite a few Bible references already. They are just not specifially pointed out to the player. I believe Bioware avoided religion in general and instead took classic religious controversies for some moral choices and setups and removed the religious context from them. A smart move in my opinion, because that way they avoided massive bashing from fans, the public, the media, the church and everyone else who likes to get involved in religious topics.


@space buddah:
That is not from an jRPG. It's from a God of War Clone called Ashura's Wrath. It's made by Capcom and appearently tries to break the world record for "most quicktime events in one game"

 There was at least 1 Bible reference that was pointed out to fans, "My name is Legion, for we are many."  The rest are more subtle, and as I've stated before, subtlety with reguards to religion is what makes its incorperation good.

[JBONE27]

didymos1120 wrote...

Captain_Obvious wrote...

To me, use of the word "Lazarus" is no more than a passing reference or nod to the Lazarus Pits that Ra's al Ghul uses in the Batman comic books to rejuvenate himself.  

You seriously think that was an allusion to Batman? And Legion's name was really an X-Men reference.

Interestingly enough, the first reference to Lazarus was prechristian.  It was part of Egyptian mythology.

[didymos1120]

JBONE27 wrote...

Interestingly enough, the first reference to Lazarus was prechristian.  It was part of Egyptian mythology.

No, that's from a debunked etymology that tried to connect the name to Osiris.

[Phaedon]

So, let me get this straight.


You guys are still debating on whether deism or atheism is the dumber belief (I'll say it again, Sagan would be proud) and think that this pertains to the topic at hand somehow?

That humans and aliens alike are still religious and that series such as Deep Space 9 implemented right and didn't annoy anyone, but actually made the show much deeper, is irrelevant, though, right. Or the fact that you guys want more lore but only selectively, because you dislike the contemporary presence of them in your lives.

Cool.

Modifié par Phaedon, 09 août 2011 - 09:09 .

[Phaedon]

Also, the hanar don't have a religion, at least not according to our standards.

They just worship the Enkindlers.

The highest up in the hanar...church, says that it's not heresy to claim that the Enkindlers were enkindled themselves. So they obviously don't consider the Protheans as gods. Especially not as creator gods.

[Blooddrunk1004]

No thanks.
Im already annoyed by religion in real life. I expect next thread too have "satanism" aswell

Modifié par Blooddrunk1004, 09 août 2011 - 09:18 .

[Weiser_Cain]

I think this topic is all the proof needed that religion can be divisive and should be left out.

[Captain_Obvious]

didymos1120 wrote...

Captain_Obvious wrote...

To me, use of the word "Lazarus" is no more than a passing reference or nod to the Lazarus Pits that Ra's al Ghul uses in the Batman comic books to rejuvenate himself.  

You seriously think that was an allusion to Batman? Uh-huh. And Legion's name was really an X-Men reference.

No, I'm saying that I heard of Lazarus from Batman before I heard of Lazarus from the Bible.   Therefore, all references to Lazarus automatically make me think "Batman" before anything else.  It's an instantaneous reaction.  First impressions from childhood, I guess. 

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

To sum up the various arguments in this thread.

HERP-A-DERP MY VIEW IS THE BESTEST!

NO DERP-A-HERP MY VIEW IS THE BESTEST!!!!!!

Good to know everything's running smoothly on BSN everyone's favorite hive of rage and trolliny.

[anyawow2]

No. Keep your religions to yourself. I don't want to even hear it.

[HTTP 404]

anyawow2 wrote...

No. Keep your religions to yourself. I don't want to even hear it.

you dang non-religionists are all the same! spewing their non-belief onto everyone!

[Blooddrunk1004]

HTTP 404 wrote...

[
you dang non-religionists are all the same! spewing their non-belief onto everyone!

You sound like Ashley now

[jamesp81]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

I think this topic is all the proof needed that religion can be divisive and should be left out.

This thread doesn't seem that divisive to me.  I think my standards are much different than most though

The developers didn't touch on religion, I think to maximize sales potential.  Getting all preachy about being non-religious or religious will put people off.  Not a good marketing strategy.  They left it open enough for the player to determine their character's motivations and beliefs, which is a pretty good way to deal with it.

Not everything need be spoonfed to the player.  The Lazarus project has some obvious theological implications, but rather than promote any one set of theologies, they just kind of let the player form their own opinion on it.

Modifié par jamesp81, 09 août 2011 - 10:11 .

[Rekkampum]

jamesp81 wrote...

Weiser_Cain wrote...

I think this topic is all the proof needed that religion can be divisive and should be left out.

This thread doesn't seem that divisive to me.  I think my standards are much different than most though

The developers didn't touch on religion, I think to maximize sales potential.  Getting all preachy about being non-religious or religious will put people off.  Not a good marketing strategy.  They left it open enough for the player to determine their character's motivations and beliefs, which is a pretty good way to deal with it.

Not everything need be spoonfed to the player.  The Lazarus project has some obvious theological implications, but rather than promote any one set of theologies, they just kind of let the player form their own opinion on it.

I agree. While we have some with clear differences in perspective, most of them are being respectful when they disagree.

[Rekkampum]

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...

No thanks.
Im already annoyed by religion in real life. I expect next thread too have "satanism" aswell

satanism is a pretty intriguing religion. I wonder what Asari would think of it?

[100k]

This is how it should've worked in Mass Effect 2

Upon joining the SR2, Shepard can have a religious discussion with Kelly (I mean -- lets face it -- she is the crew's shrink, so this would be appropriate for her). In the beginning of the game, she'll ask Shepard a vague but appropriate question about the Commander's spiritual views:

a)whether he believes in anything (assuming that you haven't played ME1)
b)whether you still believe in what you believed (assuming you were religious in ME1)
c)whether you believe now in anything (assuming you weren't religious in ME1)

And Shepard can answer with an appropriately vague but solid reply, along the lines of:

a) I am religious/I am not religious.
I still believe in a higher power (or the negative).
c) My revival is like a miracle (or the negative).

Right there I have solved the problem with religious diversity. Shepard could be Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Hindi, Buddhist, etc, and it wouldn't matter. My [Kelly's] question isn't about what religion Shepard follows. It is about whether Shepard is religious.

Near the end of the game, perhaps before the SM, Mordin -- who was also religious, will ask Shepard a similar question about religion, and Shepard can essentially conclude his/her religious views. In fact, putting it before the SM would be great, as this is when tensions are highest in the game, and certainty of survival dwindling.

*feel free to use this in ME3 Bioware, you have my permission*

Modifié par 100k, 09 août 2011 - 11:02 .

[Trakarg]

Golden Owl wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Sooooo....we should all listen to you because you are apparently the most rational and best equipped to confirm what is right or wrong?...hmmmm....

I made no claims for my own sake, but now that you're specifically asking me: yes. If everyone thought like me the world would be a much more interesting and amusing place.

Ditto....and there's the clincher...

You actually missed the main point of that post and quoted it out of context.  He was making a (very quality) jab at relativism.

[Dr.Theory]

jamesp81 wrote...

I am categorically against reducing the number of differing opinions being voiced aloud. Doing so often leads down an unfortunate path.

But fox news and related political subjects are off-topic anyway, and if someone wants to continue that conversation a PM will suffice.

Now, back on topic.

Someone mentioned upthread about most alien religions being derivatives of human ones. That's true enough, I suppose, but I can't call it lazy writing. It's a matter of perspective. Any religion invented for an alien race will at least be somewhat familiar to humans. Being humans ourselves, we are constrained by our mental faculties to think of things in terms we understand. It's kind of inevitable that it would turn out that way. For it not to, you'd need an actual alien on your writing staff.

The matter of perspective is the problem.  And while creating truely alien cultures that do not for even a second use any kind of human historical source material would be obviously impossible you can get close.  My earliest
interaction with it would have to be Lovecraft.  He created interdimensional aliens so vast and terrible that to even
get a glimpse of their world or psyche is to go slowly and methodically insane.  It literally peeled away the layers of
human sanity.

My favorite would be the book Blindsight by Peter Watts.  I won't go through it all but in it is an alien race so profoundly different from humanity that communication between the two races would never become a possibility.

We as a species within our biosphere are unique.  So were they.  They evolved very differently.  With their own set of rules that shaped the development there physical as well as mental wiring.

So while from a human perspective if this fictional alien race was observed long enough we might postulate theories on behavior that at first glance is recognizable as something analgous to human behavior it would only be because the human brain at it's core is a pattern recognition system.

So in short.  Is it hard to dream of alien races so different from us that religion is not  a meaning they would understand?  Yes.  Impossible?  No.

[Golden Owl]

Trakarg wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Sooooo....we should all listen to you because you are apparently the most rational and best equipped to confirm what is right or wrong?...hmmmm....

I made no claims for my own sake, but now that you're specifically asking me: yes. If everyone thought like me the world would be a much more interesting and amusing place.

Ditto....and there's the clincher...

You actually missed the main point of that post and quoted it out of context.  He was making a (very quality) jab at relativism.

Which I chose not to enter into to avoid a flame war...our perceptions are obviously very different and what is the point of ending up in some ridiculous flame war in trying to prove each others philosophy/view inferior.