523 réponses à ce sujet

[SandTrout]

@whatever,

I consider myself a reasonably smart and scientifically minded person, but astrophysics and quantum physics both make my brain hurt.

[Davie McG]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

This isn't the place for extended discussion of the topic, but evolution is a logical fallacy.

Why do you believe that to be so?

Because things, indeed life, tend(s) towards entropy. Disorder. Depending on one's version of evolution, a monkey learning to reason is not entropy. It's the opposite of entropy. A fish crawling on land and magically gaining lungs (how would they get said lungs? They've lived in water, and everytime they exited water they died.) is not entropy. Evolution has some points about it which are valid, such as survival of the fittest, in a sense, but I cannot accept that an entropic universe somehow spawned anti-entropic life.

What you've said there really has no relevance to science.  According to the science, evolution takes place over  extended periods of time.  If you have any interest in how land animals came to be, I suggest you do some research.  'Fish' did not one day flop onto a beach and all of a sudden grow lungs and legs.

Sorry to jump in on an off topic conversation but if you don't believe in evolution how do whales have to breath air? If they had always been sea faring creatures doesn't it strike you as odd that they can't breath down their?

If animals never learn or become more intelligent then why is it some chimps are begining to make spears? Formally a tool used only by humans.

Edit: If do decide to respond btw would you mind doing so via the edit button as this off topic after all. Also for the sake of the rest of the discussion lets just agree that evolution is part of the sci-fi universe that is mass effect, evolutionary debates are always never far from pettiness anyways

Modifié par Davie McG, 09 août 2011 - 03:25 .

[marshalleck]

ThePwener wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

What you've said there really has no relevance to science.  According to the science, evolution takes place over  extended periods of time.  If you have any interest in how land animals came to be, I suggest you do some research.  'Fish' did not one day flop onto a beach and all of a sudden grow lungs and legs.

Here's the thing. If evolution occurs out of necessity for survival, then that means the fish ran out of water. If the fish ran out of water, it must have died, not evolved. It really makes no sense. If there is water, why would it need to evolve?

Also, if Humans evolved from primates, how are there still monkeys around? Why didn't those evolve either? also, there is not a single shred of evidence that evolution exists. It's a theory passed as fact. Nothing more.

Oh man. You fail hard.

Just stop before you embarass yourself further. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 09 août 2011 - 03:22 .

[Whatever42]

ThePwener wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

What you've said there really has no relevance to science.  According to the science, evolution takes place over  extended periods of time.  If you have any interest in how land animals came to be, I suggest you do some research.  'Fish' did not one day flop onto a beach and all of a sudden grow lungs and legs.

Here's the thing. If evolution occurs out of necessity for survival, then that means the fish ran out of water. If the fish ran out of water, it must have died, not evolved. It really makes no sense. If there is water, why would it need to evolve?

Also, if Humans evolved from primates, how are there still monkeys around? Why didn't those evolve either? also, there is not a single shred of evidence that evolution exists. It's a theory passed as fact. Nothing more.

Evolution does NOT occur out of necessity for survival. Evolution occurs because a mutation gives certain individuals of the species an advantage that allow it to out-breed those without the mutation. Sometimes it is extreme (only those with the mutation survive more than a few generations) and sometimes it is more gradual (the ability of some eurasian peoples to digest dairy).

And humans did not evolve from monkeys. Humans and monkeys share a common ancestor. Humans are one branch of a very busy tree populated with many proto-human species, including neandrathal. BTW, we did not evolve from neandrathal either (although europeans do have some neandrathal DNA from cross breeding). We evolved again from a common ancestor, although we eventually wiped them out.

Meh, thread is defintely going to be locked. 

[ThePwener]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

There is huge, abundant evidence that evolution and the big bang is real. You won't stump me on either. 

And yes, we did use a time machine to see the *almost* birth of the universe. The universe is 13.7 billion years old. The light from the most distant galaxies reaching us today is almost that old because that's how long it took for the light to reach us. We can see how fast those galaxies are moving away from us. And they are all moving away from us.

Actually, those galaxies are over 41 billion light years away because space is expanding faster than the speed of light. We can see that galaxies in clusters closer to us are moving away from us faster than the galaxies further away. So we know the acceleration of space-time is increasing and we live in an inflationary universe.

Time travel is a wonderful tool is cosmology.

Prepare to be stumped.

So it's more logical to think a  explosion occured out of literal nothingness then a superior being creating it? Yes, the universe is expanding, yes the big bang occcured, but it was caused, it didn't happen out of nowhere. It was meant to be. One second there is nothing, the next existance is real.

I find it amazing how we Humans live in a tiny planet in this immense expance called space and we already think we know it all. What do we know if there is no God. Even if christianity is wrong (it isn't, as miracles happen every day like cancer disappearing from someone's body and doctors scratching they're heads) what makes you think there is not something out there controlling everything.

[Ziggy]

ThePwener wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

What you've said there really has no relevance to science.  According to the science, evolution takes place over  extended periods of time.  If you have any interest in how land animals came to be, I suggest you do some research.  'Fish' did not one day flop onto a beach and all of a sudden grow lungs and legs.

Here's the thing. If evolution occurs out of necessity for survival, then that means the fish ran out of water. If the fish ran out of water, it must have died, not evolved. It really makes no sense. If there is water, why would it need to evolve?

Also, if Humans evolved from primates, how are there still monkeys around? Why didn't those evolve either? also, there is not a single shred of evidence that evolution exists. It's a theory passed as fact. Nothing more.

You do not understand what evolution is or how it works.
Inform yourself first. Arguing about this is pretty impossible atm, as it would just consist of trying to explain it for you.

[Boiny Bunny]

ThePwener wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

What you've said there really has no relevance to science.  According to the science, evolution takes place over  extended periods of time.  If you have any interest in how land animals came to be, I suggest you do some research.  'Fish' did not one day flop onto a beach and all of a sudden grow lungs and legs.

Here's the thing. If evolution occurs out of necessity for survival, then that means the fish ran out of water. If the fish ran out of water, it must have died, not evolved. It really makes no sense. If there is water, why would it need to evolve?

Also, if Humans evolved from primates, how are there still monkeys around? Why didn't those evolve either? also, there is not a single shred of evidence that evolution exists. It's a theory passed as fact. Nothing more.

Evolution doesn't occur out of necessity for survival.  It is an entirely random process - the results of which are decided by 'survival of the fittest'.  Lamerackism (which is what you appear to be talking about) was rejected as a scientific theory hundreds of years ago.  Darwinism is the currently accepted school of thought on evolution.

And actually, there are thousands, possibly tens of thousands of studies, some dating back hundreds of years, which conclude that evolution is real.

If you are not yourself a scientist, and do not have a rudimentary understanding of science, then I can appreciate your lack of understanding when it comes to said studies however.

EDIT:  Whilst no replacement for a good textbook or real people that have spent years in the field, these might help you a little:

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Lamarckism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwinism

Modifié par Boiny Bunny, 09 août 2011 - 03:25 .

[Whatever42]

SandTrout wrote...

@whatever,

I consider myself a reasonably smart and scientifically minded person, but astrophysics and quantum physics both make my brain hurt.

And that's just general relativity! Quantum physics makes my head hurt too. 

[SandTrout]

Pwener, please do everyone a favor and pick up a copy of Darwin's Origin of Species. Even if you do not agree with the conclusions, you at least will be speaking knowledgeably about the topic.

[marshalleck]

ThePwener wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

There is huge, abundant evidence that evolution and the big bang is real. You won't stump me on either. 

And yes, we did use a time machine to see the *almost* birth of the universe. The universe is 13.7 billion years old. The light from the most distant galaxies reaching us today is almost that old because that's how long it took for the light to reach us. We can see how fast those galaxies are moving away from us. And they are all moving away from us.

Actually, those galaxies are over 41 billion light years away because space is expanding faster than the speed of light. We can see that galaxies in clusters closer to us are moving away from us faster than the galaxies further away. So we know the acceleration of space-time is increasing and we live in an inflationary universe.

Time travel is a wonderful tool is cosmology.

Prepare to be stumped.

So it's more logical to think a  explosion occured out of literal nothingness then a superior being creating it? Yes, the universe is expanding, yes the big bang occcured, but it was caused, it didn't happen out of nowhere. It was meant to be. One second there is nothing, the next existance is real.

I find it amazing how we Humans live in a tiny planet in this immense expance called space and we already think we know it all. What do we know if there is no God. Even if christianity is wrong (it isn't, as miracles happen every day like cancer disappearing from someone's body and doctors scratching they're heads) what makes you think there is not something out there controlling everything.

I actually just posted this earlier in a totally unrelated thread. 

I challenge you to watch the entire thing. 

'A Universe From Nothing' by Lawrence Krauss, AAI 2009

Modifié par marshalleck, 09 août 2011 - 03:26 .

[Ziggy]

ThePwener wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

There is huge, abundant evidence that evolution and the big bang is real. You won't stump me on either. 

And yes, we did use a time machine to see the *almost* birth of the universe. The universe is 13.7 billion years old. The light from the most distant galaxies reaching us today is almost that old because that's how long it took for the light to reach us. We can see how fast those galaxies are moving away from us. And they are all moving away from us.

Actually, those galaxies are over 41 billion light years away because space is expanding faster than the speed of light. We can see that galaxies in clusters closer to us are moving away from us faster than the galaxies further away. So we know the acceleration of space-time is increasing and we live in an inflationary universe.

Time travel is a wonderful tool is cosmology.

Prepare to be stumped.

So it's more logical to think a  explosion occured out of literal nothingness then a superior being creating it? Yes, the universe is expanding, yes the big bang occcured, but it was caused, it didn't happen out of nowhere. It was meant to be. One second there is nothing, the next existance is real.

I find it amazing how we Humans live in a tiny planet in this immense expance called space and we already think we know it all. What do we know if there is no God. Even if christianity is wrong (it isn't, as miracles happen every day like cancer disappearing from someone's body and doctors scratching they're heads) what makes you think there is not something out there controlling everything.

It's actually more logical to think that we do not know it all. That's why research is so exciting atm.
But making up answers not based on evidence is what is totally illogical.

Modifié par Em23, 09 août 2011 - 03:27 .

[ThePwener]

marshalleck wrote...

Oh man. You fail hard.

Just stop before you embarass yourself further. 

Not even going to bother saying how huh. Wow.....

[marshalleck]

ThePwener wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Oh man. You fail hard.

Just stop before you embarass yourself further. 

Not even going to bother saying how huh. Wow.....

Sorry, I'm not a high school biology teacher. I've neither the time, the patience, nor the inclination to give you the extensive remediation you require for a substantive discussion of evolution.

And this thread would be locked long before we could complete your education anyways.

Modifié par marshalleck, 09 août 2011 - 03:28 .

[ThePwener]

marshalleck wrote...

I actually just posted this earlier in a totally unrelated thread. 

I challenge you to watch the entire thing. 

'A Universe From Nothing' by Lawrence Krauss, AAI 2009

Oh, that guy. Sorry, but I do not listen to ignorance. There is enough evidence out there that God exists and that evolution is not real.

There is not a single shred of evidence to support evolution. Not one. Why do people even bother then. It started as an idea and boom, it became fact. Seriously, give me ONE, one piece of evidence.

You can't.

[Sundance31us]

Commander Locke: Damnit, Morpheus, not everyone believes what you believe.
Morpheus: My beliefs don't require them to.

[ThePwener]

marshalleck wrote...

And this thread would be locked long before we could complete your education anyways.

Yeah, it will. Maybe we should move to the off-topic thread.

[Ziggy]

ThePwener wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Oh man. You fail hard.

Just stop before you embarass yourself further. 

Not even going to bother saying how huh. Wow.....

Read "Climbing mount improbable" by Richard Dawkins. It explains the science pretty well.

Modifié par Em23, 09 août 2011 - 03:30 .

[Boiny Bunny]

Furthermore Pwener, as a cancer surviver myself, and somebody who gave alternative therapies a good chance, I can safely attest that there are many reasons that cancer disappears from the human body which have a scientific explanation, but are not formally recognised by doctors. One of the main reasons they are not recognised is the interests of drug companies.

[Anacronian Stryx]

ThePwener wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

I actually just posted this earlier in a totally unrelated thread. 

I challenge you to watch the entire thing. 

'A Universe From Nothing' by Lawrence Krauss, AAI 2009

Oh, that guy. Sorry, but I do not listen to ignorance. There is enough evidence out there that God exists and that evolution is not real.

There is not a single shred of evidence to support evolution. Not one. Why do people even bother then. It started as an idea and boom, it became fact. Seriously, give me ONE, one piece of evidence.

You can't.

Why do you have a tail bone?

[Whatever42]

ThePwener wrote...

Prepare to be stumped.

So it's more logical to think a  explosion occured out of literal nothingness then a superior being creating it? Yes, the universe is expanding, yes the big bang occcured, but it was caused, it didn't happen out of nowhere. It was meant to be. One second there is nothing, the next existance is real.

I find it amazing how we Humans live in a tiny planet in this immense expance called space and we already think we know it all. What do we know if there is no God. Even if christianity is wrong (it isn't, as miracles happen every day like cancer disappearing from someone's body and doctors scratching they're heads) what makes you think there is not something out there controlling everything.

First of all, the big bang was not an explosion. It is the rapid expansion of time-space into nothingness. It couldn't be an explosion because there was nothing for it to explode into.

But to answer your question - you don't like that the universe appeared out of no where but you accept that something infinitely more complex (God) appeared out of no where first. 

So you would refuse to believe that a ping pong ball would appear out of nowhere but you would be perfectly happy to accept that a nuclear fission reactor could appear out of nowhere. I would argue that the simple appearing out of nowhere makes more sense.

But when it comes down to it, we KNOW that the big bang occured. We know for the same reason bomb techs can reassemble an exploded bomb. Now we don't know where the big bang came from. It could be an alternative universe, it could be something else. But at one point we didn't know that the sun was a giant ball of plasma. We said it was a god riding around on his chariot. Not knowing is not a good reason for assuming the supernatural.

[Icinix]

Sundance31us wrote...

Commander Locke: Damnit, Morpheus, not everyone believes what you believe.
Morpheus: My beliefs don't require them to.

[marshalleck]

ThePwener wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

I actually just posted this earlier in a totally unrelated thread. 

I challenge you to watch the entire thing. 

'A Universe From Nothing' by Lawrence Krauss, AAI 2009

Oh, that guy. Sorry, but I do not listen to ignorance. There is enough evidence out there that God exists and that evolution is not real.

There is not a single shred of evidence to support evolution. Not one. Why do people even bother then. It started as an idea and boom, it became fact. Seriously, give me ONE, one piece of evidence.

You can't.

I figured you'd refuse to watch it, which is why any further discussion with you is futile. It's also why your understanding of evolution is laughably incomplete and simply wrong-headed. You apparently listen exclusively to ignorance, which is why you think evolution is a fish swimming out of the ocean and sprouting legs.

Also, the video has very little to nothing to do with evolution. It's a discussion of quantum physics and cosmology which attempts to explain our current understanding of the universe and how it came to be.

Modifié par marshalleck, 09 août 2011 - 03:34 .

[ISpeakTheTruth]

I think relegion can have a place in ME but it depends on the character. To me finding out that Mordin found religion after his work on the Genophage was a very touching thing especially when saying that prayer for the dead Krogan female.

[Boiny Bunny]

ThePwener wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

I actually just posted this earlier in a totally unrelated thread. 

I challenge you to watch the entire thing. 

'A Universe From Nothing' by Lawrence Krauss, AAI 2009

Oh, that guy. Sorry, but I do not listen to ignorance. There is enough evidence out there that God exists and that evolution is not real.

There is not a single shred of evidence to support evolution. Not one. Why do people even bother then. It started as an idea and boom, it became fact. Seriously, give me ONE, one piece of evidence.

You can't.

What sort of 'evidence' would you be willing to accept?

Modifié par Boiny Bunny, 09 août 2011 - 03:33 .