523 réponses à ce sujet

[SandTrout]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

That's not a valid argument, Boiny Bunny. You cannot prove a negative.

Sorry - which of my posts are you referring to?  (There are a few now and this thread is moving fast)

That was directed at your request for Pwener to prove evolution does not exist, sorry, should have quoted.

[Whatever42]

ThePwener wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

But to answer your question - you don't like that the universe appeared out of no where but you accept that something infinitely more complex (God) appeared out of no where first. 

I believe in God because he isn't as you believe he is. He's not a bearded man in the sky toying with us. He's a being of pure energy that dwells in his own dimension with the ability to do anything and everything. He created us for his own reasons. He's existance does not hinge on you're belief.

Fair enough, But as sandtrout said, how does that invalidate the big bang? 

Science is the study of the natural world. Its tools are observation and experimentation. It does not seek to prove or disprove the supernatural. 

Many scientists believe that fundementally the universe is far too complex for us ever to really understand it. For example, why does matter have mass? Such a simple question but so mind-bogglingly complex. We have only one potential theory (and its a doozy) to explain it and we built a $10 billion super-collider to try to prove it. If it doesn't find the higgs then we really have no clue.

But there will likely always be plenty of room in our understanding of the universe for belief of the supernatural. And science will never really concern itself with the supernatural because we can only really ever study the natural world. So I'm not interested in a debate about whether god exists, merely that you simply can't dismiss decades and centuries of obersvation and experimentation because it makes the space where the supernatural lives just a tiny bit smaller. 

[ThePwener]

Em23 wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

That's not a valid argument, Boiny Bunny. You cannot prove a negative.

Sure you can, find a rabbit skeleton in pre-Cambrian fossil deposits and evolution goes out the window.

It's  precámbrica actually. And the possibility of dinosaur rabbits isn't that far fetched. There were crocodiles and sharks too.

[Anacronian Stryx]

ThePwener wrote...

Here's my evidence. God exists, he made us. How do I prove he exists? Miracles.

A women goes to the doctor. The doctor says she has cancer. she goes to church. The pastor prays for her. The next week the doctor says the cancer has completaly disappeared.

The same has happened with blindness, retardation and many other things. One of my college teachers used to be a retard, like a real retard, to the pint of shock therapy, and he is now an articulate college teacher. He says God cured him.

Want more?

They all preformed "Miracles"

[yogolol]

ThePwener wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Also Pwener, since you are demanding evidence, please present your formal evidence that evolution does not in fact exist.

We can compare evidence, and come to a conclusion that way, ok?

Here's my evidence. God exists, he made us. How do I prove he exists? Miracles.

A women goes to the doctor. The doctor says she has cancer. she goes to church. The pastor prays for her. The next week the doctor says the cancer has completaly disappeared.

The same has happened with blindness, retardation and many other things. One of my college teachers used to be a retard, like a real retard, to the pint of shock therapy, and he is now an articulate college teacher. He says God cured him.

Want more?

How is this evidence? I can prove that God doesn`t exist because I have a broken leg atm and I can pray to God for it to not be broken. It`s still broken, God does not exist. People around the world are praying for God to help them and nothing ever happens, a few rare times something does happen and you consider this hard evidence that God is the one that helped these people. 

[ThePwener]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Fair enough, But as sandtrout said, how does that invalidate the big bang? 

I never said that the big bang didn't happen (if I did, I apologize), I meant that people believe in it for the wrong reasons.

[Sundance31us]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Well that didn't take too long to spin wildly out of control. ~_^

I recommend reading the thread while listening to the Suicide Mission track on the ME2 soundtrack; it's actually quite fitting.
:innocent:

Modifié par Sundance31us, 09 août 2011 - 03:49 .

[Whatever42]

But if the ME universe does explore alien cultures more deeply, including religion, I think it will have to be in a novel. I don't think an action-RPG has the depth to have deep philosophical conversations. And there is too much room for offence, I think.

[Boiny Bunny]

ThePwener wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Also Pwener, since you are demanding evidence, please present your formal evidence that evolution does not in fact exist.

We can compare evidence, and come to a conclusion that way, ok?

Here's my evidence. God exists, he made us. How do I prove he exists? Miracles.

A women goes to the doctor. The doctor says she has cancer. she goes to church. The pastor prays for her. The next week the doctor says the cancer has completaly disappeared.

The same has happened with blindness, retardation and many other things. One of my college teachers used to be a retard, like a real retard, to the pint of shock therapy, and he is now an articulate college teacher. He says God cured him.

Want more?

You see, the thing about your example there is that, you are just seeing what you want to see.  Drawing the conclusion that you want to draw.  The pastor prayed for the woman and her cancer happened to go away later?

One of my friends has a red car, and was recently in a minor car crash.  I hereby conclude that he was in the car crash because his car was red.

(POI: Statistically, it is true that there is a higher likelihood of being in a car accident if you own a red car - though of course, this is attributed to the personality type that purchases a red car, rather than the fact that the car is red).

Modifié par Boiny Bunny, 09 août 2011 - 03:51 .

[SandTrout]

I never said that the big bang didn't happen (if I did, I apologize), I meant that people believe in it for the wrong reasons.

Those 'wrong' reasons being fact-based scientific theory that is experimentally proven?

[AlphaDormante]

Sundance31us wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

Well that didn't take too long to spin wildly out of control. ~_^

I recommend reading the thread while listening to the Suicide Mission track on the ME2 soundtrack; it's actually quite fitting.
:innocent:

It's kind of like watching bumper boats if you replaced the boats with steamrollers.

[100k]

pablodurando wrote...

100k wrote...

pablodurando wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

But to answer your question - you don't like that the universe appeared out of no where but you accept that something infinitely more complex (God) appeared out of no where first. 

I believe in God because he isn't as you believe he is. He's not a bearded man in the sky toying with us. He's a being of pure energy that dwells in his own dimension with the ability to do anything and everything. He created us for his own reasons. He's existance does not hinge on you're belief.

If your god is omnipotent then why create evil, why not make everything perfect.  Why does he bother making a universe which he knows is just a game to him by making people worship him.

I personally can answer this several ways, but I won't. It is irrelevant to the thesis of this thread.

GET BACK TO THE TOPIC @ HAND, OR THE MODS WILL SHUT THIS THREAD DOWN

This thread is already going to get shut down anyway, I would like to hear just one of your answers.

It'll take far too long to explain. But we really should get back on topic, people!

[Weiser_Cain]

God no, why isn't religion banned discussion here?

[Luigitornado]

You know what? I'll pass.

[yogolol]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

God no, why isn't religion banned discussion here?

I think it is.

[Radahldo]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

But if the ME universe does explore alien cultures more deeply, including religion, I think it will have to be in a novel. I don't think an action-RPG has the depth to have deep philosophical conversations. And there is too much room for offence, I think.

I think it would  be worse in a novel, cause then just one person is writing it.  I don't know if anyone on the writer staff is much interested in theology? The pattern is they rip from an existing doctrine, and just move on. Thane was great, but the writer who did him is gone

Modifié par Radahldo, 09 août 2011 - 03:53 .

[Ziggy]

ThePwener wrote...

Em23 wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

That's not a valid argument, Boiny Bunny. You cannot prove a negative.

Sure you can, find a rabbit skeleton in pre-Cambrian fossil deposits and evolution goes out the window.

It's  precámbrica actually. And the possibility of dinosaur rabbits isn't that far fetched. There were crocodiles and sharks too.

Everything they're dug up so far supports evolution. Don't get your hopes up about your dino-bunny.

[pablodurando]

ThePwener wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Also Pwener, since you are demanding evidence, please present your formal evidence that evolution does not in fact exist.

We can compare evidence, and come to a conclusion that way, ok?

Here's my evidence. God exists, he made us. How do I prove he exists? Miracles.

A women goes to the doctor. The doctor says she has cancer. she goes to church. The pastor prays for her. The next week the doctor says the cancer has completaly disappeared.

The same has happened with blindness, retardation and many other things. One of my college teachers used to be a retard, like a real retard, to the pint of shock therapy, and he is now an articulate college teacher. He says God cured him.

Want more?

My biggest problem with this argument is ironically Occam's razor.   Just seeing and saying that God did it is making a huge assumption.  For all you know that person could just cognitively think that they're cured while in fact the disease is still with them.   

[SandTrout]

On topic, I think that religion plays the role that it should in ME. It still exists and characters believe in it, but most societies are not theocracies.

[Davie McG]

100k wrote...

pablodurando wrote...

100k wrote...

pablodurando wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

But to answer your question - you don't like that the universe appeared out of no where but you accept that something infinitely more complex (God) appeared out of no where first. 

I believe in God because he isn't as you believe he is. He's not a bearded man in the sky toying with us. He's a being of pure energy that dwells in his own dimension with the ability to do anything and everything. He created us for his own reasons. He's existance does not hinge on you're belief.

If your god is omnipotent then why create evil, why not make everything perfect.  Why does he bother making a universe which he knows is just a game to him by making people worship him.

I personally can answer this several ways, but I won't. It is irrelevant to the thesis of this thread.

GET BACK TO THE TOPIC @ HAND, OR THE MODS WILL SHUT THIS THREAD DOWN

This thread is already going to get shut down anyway, I would like to hear just one of your answers.

It'll take far too long to explain. But we really should get back on topic, people!

Agreed.

I'd like to visit the hanar home world an hear more about drell beliefs.

It would make sense to go there, after all there are alot of prothean ruins, perhaps something usefull to the mission may be found here

[Erani]

^ It is Cain.

Seriously Pwener! You are the OP and should not be engaging in off-topic. Why are you continuing with the religious discussion as you know it is inappropriate!

[ThePwener]

yogolol wrote...

How is this evidence? I can prove that God doesn`t exist because I have a broken leg atm and I can pray to God for it to not be broken. It`s still broken, God does not exist. People around the world are praying for God to help them and nothing ever happens, a few rare times something does happen and you consider this hard evidence that God is the one that helped these people. 

It's called faith. Saying God exists and wanting something doesn't get you anything. It doesn't work like that. The bible says that those who do not want to believe won't no matter what is shown to them. It's like a veil is infront of you're eyes and only lifts when you truly want to believe. So I guess Im wasting my time here. Sorry to waste you're too.

[ThePwener]

pablodurando wrote...

My biggest problem with this argument is ironically Occam's razor.   Just seeing and saying that God did it is making a huge assumption.  For all you know that person could just cognitively think that they're cured while in fact the disease is still with them.   

Yeah, too bad they gave her 2 hours to live and she didn't.

Derp

[Dhiro]

Dino-bunny is a very funny word.

Can we please drop it, guys?