50 réponses à ce sujet

[Sajuro]

I was thinking about a later chapter in my DA2 fanfiction and then I thought of the use of the word 'Shem' by the dalish elves and other elves, my question is: is it a derogatory term like calling elves 'knife ears' or qunari 'horned -insert insult here-'

[EmperorSahlertz]

Shemlen is the Elven word for quickling (which in turn is their word for human), so I'd think that it isn't racist. At least not anymore racist than calling an elf an elf, instead of Elvhen.

[TJPags]

I certainly think it's used that way by many elves.

[thats1evildude]

Yeah, sorta. The original meaning of the word — quick children — wasn't meant to be an insult, but it's only used in a derogatory way nowadays.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 09 août 2011 - 03:25 .

[Icinix]

Any term can become racist, sexist, speciest if used as a derogatory term.

I used to call any child under the age of 5 with an excessive amount of energy to clamber over things a monkey.

These days if I called someones kid a monkey. I could get in all sorts of trouble. *shrug* So I guess yes. Shem is a racist term.

[TEWR]

yes. Though it's funny when Hawke totally owns one elf in Act 3 before doing A murder of crows.


Elf with hair over his eyes: You don't belong here, shemlen.

Hawke: Well what about my.... wait! Where did my self-righteousness and pointy ears go?

*elf then points rapidly at Hawke while saying: You.... you.... shemlen!

[dragonflight288]

HAHAHA. I also love that part. He couldn't come up with a good retort because at some level, he knew it was true. Or at least that's how I interpreted it.

The tevinter mage in Origins who was taking city elves as slaves says something very true. Some people just won't accept the truth even when it's dancing in front of them.

[Sajuro]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Shemlen is the Elven word for quickling (which in turn is their word for human), so I'd think that it isn't racist. At least not anymore racist than calling an elf an elf, instead of Elvhen.

I think it is more comparable to calling an elf 'knife ears' since they call themselves elves, or Dalish while humans don't call themselves Shemlens.
Several Racial slurs and derogatory come from other words that have been perverted for the purposes of hate

[stephen_dedalus]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Shemlen is the Elven word for quickling (which in turn is their word for human), so I'd think that it isn't racist. At least not anymore racist than calling an elf an elf, instead of Elvhen.

Whether a word is a racist slur or not has more to do with what it connotes in a given context than what it denotes.  "Shemlen" may denote "human" in elvish, but when spoken with an acerbic tone to let someone know they're an outsider and they aren't welcome, it becomes a slur. 

Aveline certainly thinks it's a slur.  She tells Hawke as much when asked during the initial visit to Sundermount.

[Sajuro]

Icinix wrote...

Any term can become racist, sexist, speciest if used as a derogatory term.

I used to call any child under the age of 5 with an excessive amount of energy to clamber over things a monkey.

These days if I called someones kid a monkey. I could get in all sorts of trouble. *shrug* So I guess yes. Shem is a racist term.

That's why you call them 'little ones' or 'silly gooses'

[Shadow Fox]

Yup it is.

[Gabey5]

a yup.. same with dog lord for fereldens

[David Gaider]

TJPags wrote...
I certainly think it's used that way by many elves.

Correct. "Shemlen" is an elven word... but city elves don't speak the language. They use "Shem" as a derogatory term.

[TEWR]

Is there a derogatory term for Dwarves that's catchy and not just "greedy little nug-humper"? Because Humans, Elves, and Kossith are called shem, knife-ear, and ox-man respectively

[In Exile]

I always thought that it was a little like 'goy' (which is yiddish for a person who is not Jewish) and so... it depends, but it could very well, depending on the context and the speaker.

Modifié par In Exile, 09 août 2011 - 05:56 .

[SmokePants]

Louis C.K. had a joke about how minorities can't really inflict emotional harm with their slurs.

“Hmph. Called me a '******'. Ruined my day. Briings me back to a time when I owned land and people."

[Rifneno]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

yes. Though it's funny when Hawke totally owns one elf in Act 3 before doing A murder of crows.


Elf with hair over his eyes: You don't belong here, shemlen.

Hawke: Well what about my.... wait! Where did my self-righteousness and pointy ears go?

*elf then points rapidly at Hawke while saying: You.... you.... shemlen!

God I love sarcastic Hawke.  It's like House as a demigod.

[TEWR]

Ehhh House beats Hawke anyday. House accomplishes stuff on a regular basis and isn't an idiot(Legacy being Hawke's only instance of not being an idiot)

I want Hugh Laurie to voice someone in DA3! Companion, LI, or protagonist.

Actually, protagonist. And I can give him a cane. And make him look like House.

[Ski Mask Wei]

My favorite "Shem" is when you don't give Merrill her knife tool or whatever she let's it fly. I thought it was funny but I wasn't laughing when Anders called my BlackHawke a boy. I was like "wait 'til the end of the game ******. We'll see what's what then."

[Sepewrath]

Ski Mask Wei wrote... but I wasn't laughing when Anders called my BlackHawke a boy. I was like "wait 'til the end of the game ******. We'll see what's what then."

That's going to have me randomly laughing for the next half hour.

David Gaider wrote...
Correct. "Shemlen" is an elven word... but city elves don't speak the language. They use "Shem" as a derogatory term.

They need to work on their racism lol.

Modifié par Sepewrath, 09 août 2011 - 07:43 .

[Icinix]

Sajuro wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Any term can become racist, sexist, speciest if used as a derogatory term.

I used to call any child under the age of 5 with an excessive amount of energy to clamber over things a monkey.

These days if I called someones kid a monkey. I could get in all sorts of trouble. *shrug* So I guess yes. Shem is a racist term.

That's why you call them 'little ones' or 'silly gooses'

Until Goose becomes a racist term.  Given enough time and use - anything can come to mean something else.

[Herr Uhl]

Icinix wrote...

Until Goose becomes a racist term.  Given enough time and use - anything can come to mean something else.

Monkey having a racist clang sin't exactly a new thing.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Is there a derogatory term for Dwarves that's catchy and not just "greedy little nug-humper"? Because Humans, Elves, and Kossith are called shem, knife-ear, and ox-man respectively

Dorf?

[Icinix]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Until Goose becomes a racist term.  Given enough time and use - anything can come to mean something else.

Monkey having a racist clang sin't exactly a new thing.

Never said it was.

Saying it wasn't always.

The english language is filled with words whose meaning changes, particularly when it comes to derogatory words.

Like Shem - the word BECAME a racist term it would apear in the DA universe.

[Macropodmum]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Is there a derogatory term for Dwarves that's catchy and not just "greedy little nug-humper"? Because Humans, Elves, and Kossith are called shem, knife-ear, and ox-man respectively

Lol, as I started reading your first line the first thinng that came to mind was nug humper and then you said it....How about 'Stumpies' in honour of Isabella's comment about running around on stumpy little legs?

Modifié par Macropodmum, 09 août 2011 - 08:59 .

[Rifneno]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Ehhh House beats Hawke anyday. House accomplishes stuff on a regular basis and isn't an idiot(Legacy being Hawke's only instance of not being an idiot)

I want Hugh Laurie to voice someone in DA3! Companion, LI, or protagonist.

Actually, protagonist. And I can give him a cane. And make him look like House.

That would rule so much. So very, very much. A slim possibility of it happening too, since Bioware has paid for some big names for VA. Names like Martin Sheen are not cheap. (If any DA-only player is wondering, Sheen voices a major character in Mass Effect 2, The Illusive Man.)

I don't know about House not being an idiot at times though. He's done some incredibly stupid stuff. Like breaking in and stealing Stacy's therapist files, or actively antagonizing that billionaire villain in Season 1.

Herr Uhl wrote...

Dorf?

I don't think dorf is derogatory. If it is, it's only in some games or fanbases. Back in Everquest, we always called dwarves "dorfs." I still call Varric and such dorfs in DA and mean nothing negative by it at all.