50 réponses à ce sujet

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Yes, shem is a derogatory term, I think. It's roots might simply mean "quick children", but like many racial slurs, it's meaning and intent from elves is pretty racist. Sort of like calling a person of Pakistani descent a "******".

So yes, I do consider it a racist term. Not that it's any surprise, the elves are just as racist as anyone on Thedas.

[TEWR]

That would rule so much. So very, very much. A slim possibility of it happening too, since Bioware has paid for some big names for VA. Names like Martin Sheen are not cheap. (If any DA-only player is wondering, Sheen voices a major character in Mass Effect 2, The Illusive Man.)

I don't know about House not being an idiot at times though. He's done some incredibly stupid stuff. Like breaking in and stealing Stacy's therapist files, or actively antagonizing that billionaire villain in Season 1.

Well, yea... but he doesn't act like an idiot 24/7 and go into 3 year comas.

[Sajuro]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

That would rule so much. So very, very much. A slim possibility of it happening too, since Bioware has paid for some big names for VA. Names like Martin Sheen are not cheap. (If any DA-only player is wondering, Sheen voices a major character in Mass Effect 2, The Illusive Man.)

I don't know about House not being an idiot at times though. He's done some incredibly stupid stuff. Like breaking in and stealing Stacy's therapist files, or actively antagonizing that billionaire villain in Season 1.

Well, yea... but he doesn't act like an idiot 24/7 and go into 3 year comas.

I wouldn't mind it though if Hawke could steal pain medicine from the apothecary.

[HTTP 404]

Im going to name my next PC Shem Hawke.   kinda sounds like Shmuck

Modifié par HTTP 404, 10 août 2011 - 02:03 .

[Sajuro]

David Gaider wrote...

TJPags wrote...
I certainly think it's used that way by many elves.

Correct. "Shemlen" is an elven word... but city elves don't speak the language. They use "Shem" as a derogatory term.

I didn't think that the Dalish elves, save the keepers and firsts, really spoke the elven language anymore. I may not have a very good memory, but I don't recall one instance of the Dalish elves in DA2 using shem in a positive tone, but that could be because they are all a bunch of pricks, save Merrill and the Keeper.

[Rifneno]

Sajuro wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

TJPags wrote...
I certainly think it's used that way by many elves.

Correct. "Shemlen" is an elven word... but city elves don't speak the language. They use "Shem" as a derogatory term.

I didn't think that the Dalish elves, save the keepers and firsts, really spoke the elven language anymore. I may not have a very good memory, but I don't recall one instance of the Dalish elves in DA2 using shem in a positive tone, but that could be because they are all a bunch of pricks, save Merrill and the Keeper.

True story.  People talk about how the mages and/or templars got portrayed badly in DA2, but I think the Dalish came off worse than anyone.  Even Arianni tries to kill you after you save her son - multiple times.

The Dalish are fun for sarcastic Hawke though.  I love that the only way to not ****** off Master Ilen when asking about the Ironbark is to be sarcastic about the Dalish Hunter's abilities since he's too retarded to realize it was sarcasm.  Or the aforementioned, "*gasp* Where did my pointy ears and self-righteousness go?!" line.

[TEWR]

Actually, that wasn't sarcasm with Master Ilen. It was a charming line. Sarcasm is the mask. Charming is the diamond, where Hawke is sympathetic.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 10 août 2011 - 05:55 .

[Torax]

What is amusing and sad to a degree is that the majority of racism is just tied to the elves. In fact the Dalish propagate a bit of it themselves. They refer to the non dalish elves as "flat ears". Humans will refer to Elves overall as "knife ears" For dwarves they have their own form of it by calling the Castless "brands" I've always found it sad that for many dwarves the most dangerous place to live is actually in or around Orzimar. They use the castes system as a form of races as well.

[Rifneno]

Torax wrote...

What is amusing and sad to a degree is that the majority of racism is just tied to the elves. In fact the Dalish propagate a bit of it themselves. They refer to the non dalish elves as "flat ears". Humans will refer to Elves overall as "knife ears" For dwarves they have their own form of it by calling the Castless "brands" I've always found it sad that for many dwarves the most dangerous place to live is actually in or around Orzimar. They use the castes system as a form of races as well.

So that's what flat-ear means!  I was wondering how the Dalish were spewing a racist insult at Merrill, since she's one of their own.  Anyway, I think the casteless actually have it the worst overall.  In some of the more extreme cases, Tevinter slaves or Kirkwall Circle mages have it worse, but in general I think casteless dwarves get dealt the worst hand.

[Addai]

Torax wrote...

What is amusing and sad to a degree is that the majority of racism is just tied to the elves. In fact the Dalish propagate a bit of it themselves. They refer to the non dalish elves as "flat ears". Humans will refer to Elves overall as "knife ears" For dwarves they have their own form of it by calling the Castless "brands" I've always found it sad that for many dwarves the most dangerous place to live is actually in or around Orzimar. They use the castes system as a form of races as well.

Merrill also refers to Feynriel as "that half breed."

I take it that dwarves are more respected because of their role in commerce.

[Addai]

Rifneno wrote...
 Even Arianni tries to kill you after you save her son - multiple times.

Wat.  Is this if Feynriel doesn't survive?

[Herr Uhl]

Addai67 wrote...

I take it that dwarves are more respected because of their role in commerce.

Or maybe because they haven't been embroiled in war with either of the other two races.

[Rifneno]

Addai67 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...
 Even Arianni tries to kill you after you save her son - multiple times.

Wat.  Is this if Feynriel doesn't survive?

No.  If he survives and goes to Tevinter to study, she goes back and rejoins the Dalish clan.  Who proceed to throw themselves on Hawke's sword because Marethari thought becoming a vessel for a pride demon would solve everything.  So she'll attack with all the rest, presumably because the Dalish have a hive mind, and a retarded one at that.

[TEWR]

Rifneno wrote...

Torax wrote...

What is amusing and sad to a degree is that the majority of racism is just tied to the elves. In fact the Dalish propagate a bit of it themselves. They refer to the non dalish elves as "flat ears". Humans will refer to Elves overall as "knife ears" For dwarves they have their own form of it by calling the Castless "brands" I've always found it sad that for many dwarves the most dangerous place to live is actually in or around Orzimar. They use the castes system as a form of races as well.

So that's what flat-ear means!  I was wondering how the Dalish were spewing a racist insult at Merrill, since she's one of their own.  Anyway, I think the casteless actually have it the worst overall.  In some of the more extreme cases, Tevinter slaves or Kirkwall Circle mages have it worse, but in general I think casteless dwarves get dealt the worst hand.

Actually casteless have it better under Bhelen (as we all know) and more than likely Kal-Sharok since the bad relations between both cities is due to how traditional Orzammar is.

So I'd say casteless are living a better life these days.

[Rifneno]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Actually casteless have it better under Bhelen (as we all know) and more than likely Kal-Sharok since the bad relations between both cities is due to how traditional Orzammar is.

So I'd say casteless are living a better life these days.

You forget, epilogues are written by apostates seeking to spread subversion against the Chantry.

[AtreiyaN7]

Hmm, here in Hawaii white people are called haole It's basically just descriptive. From what I understand, it means "foreigner," but when you use it by itself, it's pretty much understood that you mean "white/Caucasian." You can even have "haole pake," which refers to Chinese people. This is usually shortened to "pake," but I digress.

If one were to call someone a dumb haole, something like that would probably be indicative of the speaker using the word in a derogatory manner. As far as "shem" goes, I get the feeling it's kind of like "haole" in that the intent/meaning depends entirely upon the speaker. If a human-hating elf says "shem," it's probably being used in a derogatory manner. With tolerant elves, it's probably just descriptive without negative connotations (although given elf-human relations, I'm not entirely sure about that).

[Addai]

Rifneno wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...
 Even Arianni tries to kill you after you save her son - multiple times.

Wat.  Is this if Feynriel doesn't survive?

No.  If he survives and goes to Tevinter to study, she goes back and rejoins the Dalish clan.  Who proceed to throw themselves on Hawke's sword because Marethari thought becoming a vessel for a pride demon would solve everything.  So she'll attack with all the rest, presumably because the Dalish have a hive mind, and a retarded one at that.

Ah, ok.  But how is that multiple times?

[TEWR]

Rifneno wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Actually casteless have it better under Bhelen (as we all know) and more than likely Kal-Sharok since the bad relations between both cities is due to how traditional Orzammar is.

So I'd say casteless are living a better life these days.

You forget, epilogues are written by apostates seeking to spread subversion against the Chantry.

true, but since it hasn't been directly contradicted I see no reason to not believe it. But Bhelen keeps contacts with carta dwarves on the surface, who are by Orzammar definition casteless, so I imagine he pays them well.

While we're talking about Dwarves, I wonder if Kal-Sharok wasn't the only other city to outlive the Blight. Perhaps a few others did as well and Orzammar doesn't yet know. Perhaps Dwarves fled to the surface and made a new Great Thaig in some other cave.

[Herr Uhl]

Rifneno wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Actually casteless have it better under Bhelen (as we all know) and more than likely Kal-Sharok since the bad relations between both cities is due to how traditional Orzammar is.

So I'd say casteless are living a better life these days.

You forget, epilogues are written by apostates seeking to spread subversion against the Chantry.

Could you try and not mention that you hate the chantry in every single topic you post, even when you have no reason to?

The epilogues aren't set in stone (as seen in DA2) and the epilogue wasn't that much better for casteless. You could join the army and be cannonfodder under Bhelen, that is it.

[Rifneno]

Addai67 wrote...

Ah, ok.  But how is that multiple times?

I meant saving him multiple times (from the slavers, then from Fade demons), not her trying to kill Hawke multiple times. People rarely get a second chance at trying to kill Hawke, hehe.

[Rifneno]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Could you try and not mention that you hate the chantry in every single topic you post, even when you have no reason to?

The epilogues aren't set in stone (as seen in DA2) and the epilogue wasn't that much better for casteless. You could join the army and be cannonfodder under Bhelen, that is it.

Could you try and not psychoanalyze in every single post you make? Or at least be right about it once in a while? I was mocking a ridiculous line Cassandra made, which was at least at bad as the infamous "swooping is bad" one.

And "aren't set in stone" is a nice way of prettying up "blatantly retconned."

[Herr Uhl]

Too many threads have been turned into "chantry sucks" or "bioware hates mages" threads recently for my liking. I'd like if it stays in relevant threads.

And why didn't you answer the point that the improvement they've gotten is exaggerated?

[TEWR]

As opposed to the Warrior Caste who was always cannonfodder? This has become a part of Dwarven living. Fighting against the Darkspawn is what they constantly deal with so they won't be overwhelmed. At least the casteless can live better lives now.

Frankly, I'd take the offer if I was a casteless.

[Herr Uhl]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

As opposed to the Warrior Caste who was always cannonfodder? This has become a part of Dwarven living. Fighting against the Darkspawn is what they constantly deal with so they won't be overwhelmed. At least the casteless can live better lives now.

Frankly, I'd take the offer if I was a casteless.

The warrior caste probably gets paid a lot more. I don't think Bhelen would pay any of the dusters more than the bare minimum to survive, nor that he would be hesitant at throwing them into more dangerous places than they'd use the warrior caste, more like legion than warrior caste.

They're still restricted to Dust Town, and have the same stigmas against them. Edit: The ones not in the army.

Edit 2: And I wonder what those privelidges entail. Fighting would be seen as a privelidge to dusters for example.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 11 août 2011 - 11:37 .

[Rifneno]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Too many threads have been turned into "chantry sucks" or "bioware hates mages" threads recently for my liking. I'd like if it stays in relevant threads.

And why didn't you answer the point that the improvement they've gotten is exaggerated?

The Chantry/templar vs. mages issue is the main focus of the game.  People are going to have opinions about it.  Especially since it's still fresh; people still spar over Ostagar when it's brought up.

Because I'm not sure it is.  A lot is unknown.  Are all casteless being given some rights, or just the specific ones fighting darkspawn?  Are they equipped to stand a fighting chance, or are they just being used as meatshields for the "real" dwarves?  Is this the extent of Bhelen's plans for the casteless, or just the first step in improving their lot?