Questa discussione ha avuto 386 risposte

[Sinaxi]

@ Wulfram
The thing is...he sees into their history/experiences. He is confronting their doubts and their regrets, but I think Leliana is the only one he actually "accuses" of anything. He phrases everything in a question, (even though they are basically statements) but..

He questions whether Wynne is sincere in her beliefs or if she is simply spouting off random BS that she isn't really all that sure of, questions Zevran's regret, whether Sten let down his people...if Alistair wishes he had done things differently, etc.

He doesn't necessarily "accuse" any of them, just questions them, he is pretty rude to Leliana though from what I recall. Instead of just questioning her own potential doubt in her vision, he blatantly tells her that she is lying to which she defends herself. So yeah, he could be confronting her own doubts, but why would he not go about it the same way he did for pretty much everyone else? I always got the impression he honestly believed she was lying about it and was not just doing this to question her own doubt.

edit - grumble..grumble. I've been looking all over youtube for a video of all the companions response since I don't remember 100% what is exactly said, just what he basically asked all of them...but a video of that apparently does not exist <_<

Modificata da Tidra, 17 agosto 2011 - 08:20 .

[esper]

TeenZombie wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

But why don't people call her insane for her beliefs?   Most likely because she's considered a friend of the Warden, and she's not hurting anyone with her ideas.  Elthina probably wasn't speaking literally when she claimed that the Maker stopped the Blight, and meant that the Warden and the others who helped kill the Archdemon were guided by the Maker.  I just don't see this belief as a black mark against her, or against Leliana for her belief that the Maker takes an active role in the world.

Quite a few people do call her crazy.

In fact, after telling the Warden that the Maker told her to go with him she herself says that she knows that "that sounds absolutely insane"

I meant players, not ingame.  I know that her beliefs are considered unorthodox by Andrastians.

Players think Leliana's beliefs are cute and harmless, thus they don't attack her or call her crazy, even if it's acknowledged in the game that characters think what she's saying is absurd.

Players think Elthina's one statement, that can be easily seen as a simple belief that a higher power guides all people, means that she literally thinks the Maker ended the Blight.

I'm wondering why Leliana gets a pass but Elthina doesn't.

That IS a bad reason for dislinking Elthina - and I am very anti-chantry. I don't get why Leliana gets a free pass either. My warden was always very akward whenever she mentioned her vision.
My first dislike for Elthina was not when she said my Surana ended the blight because of the Maker - I expected her to react like that. My dislike comes mainly from when my Hawke told Elthina that her official seal was being misused and Elthina didn't even pretend to care about it. The Alrik papers came and then the whole mage-templar thing, and Elthina just ended up on my blacklist.  

[Sinaxi]

esper wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

But why don't people call her insane for her beliefs?   Most likely because she's considered a friend of the Warden, and she's not hurting anyone with her ideas.  Elthina probably wasn't speaking literally when she claimed that the Maker stopped the Blight, and meant that the Warden and the others who helped kill the Archdemon were guided by the Maker.  I just don't see this belief as a black mark against her, or against Leliana for her belief that the Maker takes an active role in the world.

Quite a few people do call her crazy.

In fact, after telling the Warden that the Maker told her to go with him she herself says that she knows that "that sounds absolutely insane"

I meant players, not ingame.  I know that her beliefs are considered unorthodox by Andrastians.

Players think Leliana's beliefs are cute and harmless, thus they don't attack her or call her crazy, even if it's acknowledged in the game that characters think what she's saying is absurd.

Players think Elthina's one statement, that can be easily seen as a simple belief that a higher power guides all people, means that she literally thinks the Maker ended the Blight.

I'm wondering why Leliana gets a pass but Elthina doesn't.

That IS a bad reason for dislinking Elthina - and I am very anti-chantry. I don't get why Leliana gets a free pass either. My warden was always very akward whenever she mentioned her vision.
My first dislike for Elthina was not when she said my Surana ended the blight because of the Maker - I expected her to react like that. My dislike comes mainly from when my Hawke told Elthina that her official seal was being misused and Elthina didn't even pretend to care about it. The Alrik papers came and then the whole mage-templar thing, and Elthina just ended up on my blacklist.  

Yeah, I loved how she was more worried about the fact that you had evidence belonging to a "murdered" guy who was raping Mages instead of the fact that... you know...he was, uh wanting to turn all mages Tranquil and rape them in his ridiculously perverted child molester voice.

[Sepewrath]

esper wrote...
My first dislike for Elthina was not when she said my Surana ended the blight because of the Maker - I expected her to react like that. My dislike comes mainly from when my Hawke told Elthina that her official seal was being misused and Elthina didn't even pretend to care about it. The Alrik papers came and then the whole mage-templar thing, and Elthina just ended up on my blacklist.  

Those reasons are just as bad.

[Xilizhra]

TeenZombie wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

But why don't people call her insane for her beliefs?   Most likely because she's considered a friend of the Warden, and she's not hurting anyone with her ideas.  Elthina probably wasn't speaking literally when she claimed that the Maker stopped the Blight, and meant that the Warden and the others who helped kill the Archdemon were guided by the Maker.  I just don't see this belief as a black mark against her, or against Leliana for her belief that the Maker takes an active role in the world.

Quite a few people do call her crazy.

In fact, after telling the Warden that the Maker told her to go with him she herself says that she knows that "that sounds absolutely insane"

I meant players, not ingame.  I know that her beliefs are considered unorthodox by Andrastians.

Players think Leliana's beliefs are cute and harmless, thus they don't attack her or call her crazy, even if it's acknowledged in the game that characters think what she's saying is absurd.

Players think Elthina's one statement, that can be easily seen as a simple belief that a higher power guides all people, means that she literally thinks the Maker ended the Blight.

I'm wondering why Leliana gets a pass but Elthina doesn't.

Leliana may be backing a corrupt and tyrannical institution, but at least she's not a criminally negligent enabler of atrocities to regularly occur under her command. I think that may have something to do with it.

[syllogi]

Xilizhra wrote...

Leliana may be backing a corrupt and tyrannical institution, but at least she's not a criminally negligent enabler of atrocities to regularly occur under her command. I think that may have something to do with it.

The Circles have existed for a thousand years.  Under normal circumstances, there should be no atrocities.  Yes, she was negligent, but unless one thinks that condoning the existence of Circles at all is enabling, I don't think that simply having the role of Grand Cleric makes her responsible for corrupt Templars.

[Xilizhra]

TeenZombie wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Leliana may be backing a corrupt and tyrannical institution, but at least she's not a criminally negligent enabler of atrocities to regularly occur under her command. I think that may have something to do with it.

The Circles have existed for a thousand years.  Under normal circumstances, there should be no atrocities.  Yes, she was negligent, but unless one thinks that condoning the existence of Circles at all is enabling, I don't think that simply having the role of Grand Cleric makes her responsible for corrupt Templars.

No. Appointing a psychologically damaged woman with an extremely traumatic background to the position of Knight-Commander and then absolutely refusing to enforce any rules on her, however, does.

[KnightofPhoenix]

You forgot, in the most critical circle in a volatile political context.

Modificata da KnightofPhoenix, 18 agosto 2011 - 03:52 .

[syllogi]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

You forgot, in the most critical circle in a volatile political context.

I would assume that the writers have a reason for Elthina's inaction, but I don't know what it is.

I can only assume that she never leaves the Chantry, never talks to Orsino, and Meredith lies to her.  Or she covers her ears and goes LALALALA.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Don't get me started.

[esper]

Sepewrath wrote...

esper wrote...
My first dislike for Elthina was not when she said my Surana ended the blight because of the Maker - I expected her to react like that. My dislike comes mainly from when my Hawke told Elthina that her official seal was being misused and Elthina didn't even pretend to care about it. The Alrik papers came and then the whole mage-templar thing, and Elthina just ended up on my blacklist.  

Those reasons are just as bad.

If I have Hawke's reputation and I tell someone that their offical seal is being misused, I expect them to at least investigate it.  
Her reaction to Alriks' paper... All right I expected that, and I could forgive her character for it, if it wasn't for everything else.
Elthina should have stopped Meridith from hogging the vicount seat. The moment Elthina failed to do that and then contuine to pretend that it would work out and if was out of her hands.
It was not out of her hands, Elthina had a position of power, but she was to comfortable to wield it in a way that could shake it or offend anyone - and for that she lost my respect.

[esper]

double post

Modificata da esper, 18 agosto 2011 - 07:36 .