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[Jedi Master of Orion]

I still haven't seen Legacy all the way through but I'm given to understand that near the end of the quest when Corypheus talks about the Black City, Anders says that the story of the magisters breaching the Golden City was just Chantry propaganda, only to be convinced of it's truth moments later by seeing the tevinter amulet that Corypheus wore.

Now this might make sense given his personality and view of the Chantry except for the fact that it directly contradicts  what else he says in the game.

For all his hatred of the chantry and templars, Anders still seemed to believe in the Chant of Light because he cited it like it was gospel when trying to educate Merrill about the nature of spirts in the fade.

Moreover though, he flat out says he believed the story about the magisters when you talk to him in one of the conversations of the game. It's the one where you give him the Tevinter Chantry Amulet, I'm fairly certain he says something to the effect of "Well that did invade the Golden City and unleash the darkspawn upon us all. But that has more to do with being a magister than a mage."

Since you can do Legacy at any point presumably he can randomly change his mind if you do it after giving him the gift. At first I thought this was an obvious continuity error but then I remember one of his earlier conversations. After the incident with the templar and the mage in the Tranquil Solution  Quest he is so ashamed of his actions that he says that maybe the Templars are right and then considers trying to talk to the Grand Cleric.

His very next conversation then says he has become determined to bring the whole insitution down. Sometimes he says this seconds after being so ashamed he was willing to give up the fight. I figured that was just poorly programed dialouge responses, but are they triyng to make a theme out of his borderline insane bipolar sihfting of opinions due to his condition?

[LobselVith8]

I think it has less to do with Anders' character development and more to do with the writers trying to balance out the mage and templar dynamic by giving players a reason to side with the templars and agree with their point of view by making it crystal clear that the Teviner mages invaded the fabled city. Gaider has mentioned that he thinks people sided with mages almost by default, so I don't really think it has much to do with developing Anders' character at all. I don't even see how it makes any sense that the scene with Anders (before the Final Seal) happens, given his union with Justice.

Story-wise, we see the problematic continuity continue with Warden Carver's interaction with Hawke at the conclusion of Legacy, and how they react after the events of Legacy contradicts the schism that exists between the two during Act III, and Anders' "discovery" in Legacy is pretty much the same way.

[Ryzaki]

Not to mention Bethany's "woe is me" act even after act 3 where she finally accepted that her life wasn't that bad.

[TEWR]

It's proof that the Magisters did enter the City (Golden I doubt, as Corypheus implies it was always Black) and became the first Awakened Darkspawn. That doesn't mean he and his drinking buddies were the first Darkspawn in existence, for reasons I've stated on other threads.

And I've never had Anders say that with the amulet. I've had him say that it's sacrilege to wear it, but never anything about the magisters. I assume though that the devs maybe missed a few things regarding Anders. No biggie.

Also, Anders isn't exactly mentally stable.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 09 août 2011 - 05:47 .

[Erani]

Regarding Legacy, I don't think Anders is convinced it is the truth. Just like Hawke and us LOL, he is confused by such an important discovery. Even if the Magisters did enter the ? city, it looks like they were fooled/convinced (by an old god or someone pretending to be one) into doing so + the place was already black/never golden and there was no Maker there, only evil and nasty corruption.

So yeah the Chantry was BSing all along.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

I never had any real doubt, in DAO, that the magisters did physically enter the fade and the golden/black city. In fact, it seemed a pretty widely agreed on fact, even by the Tevinter. My agreement with the Chantry ends there, though. The Chant of light states they did so because they were bwahahahah ebil mages who wanted to rule the universe and dethrone the Maker, and turned the city black because they were just so full of eeeeevil.

Interestingly, Corpheyus's mention that the city was black when they got there kinda supports a similar long standing theory I've had since DAO. By the way, since I have't played Legacy yet, does he state that the city was definitely golden up until he got close to it, or was it black before the Magisters ever decided to enter?

Because my old long standing theory was that the city had turned black well before the magisters  even figured out how to enter the Fade physically. My theory was that something else turned the Golden City black. Naturally, every mage and dreamer in Tevinter would notice this. And well, it would be pretty damned ominus, something they would not ignore. After many failed attempts to investigate it through normal Fade entry, they consult their gods, and Dumat gives them a nifty ritual that lets them enter the Fade physically so they can go check it out directy. Dumat also told them if they succeeded, they would become like gods themselves. And the rest is sadly history.

Anyway that just one of hundreds of possibilities. Just saying the Chantry, as usualy, probably only preaches a fraction of the whole story, and their version  is again, only one of many, I think.

[KotorEffect3]

Ryzaki wrote...

Not to mention Bethany's "woe is me" act even after act 3 where she finally accepted that her life wasn't that bad.

Chronologicaly Legacy takes place before the end of act 3 even if you use a post game save to play it.  It can take place during the events of act 3 but it happens before anders and meredith decide to start armageddon.  And as far as Bethany's "woe is me" attitude.   Well can't blame her since being a warden sucks for the most part.  Yes it is fun to play as one but actualy being one would suck.  And given what we know of her personality it makes sense that she would hate it.

[Plaintiff]

It's not entirely accurate to say Anders believes in the Chant. He certainly doesn't beieve in the Chantry. He does, however, believe in Andraste, and he uses quote from her in his argument against the subjugation of mages. Even if he agrees with a few of the core beliefs, he does not and never has suported the Chantry as it currently exists, even in Awakening.

Anders is a very sarcastic and cynical person and just because he mentions the story of the Golden City doesn't necessarily mean he believes it. The Tevinter Amulet doesn't bother him on a moral level, it bothers him becauase he could get into big trouble for wearing it.

[London]

I found Bethany in Act III to be accurate; she was fairly content in Act II, but since Act III the abuses became more widespread and common. By the time you meet up with Bethany she indicates that she was locked away in her cell, and she was not happy in the Act III Circle.

Act II things weren't so bad yet, and Bethany seemed happy to be out of hiding.

[Gervaise]

Anders believes in the teaching of Andraste and the maker. He invokes Andraste before the final battle if you keep him alive and in your party and talk to him. It is just that thinking about the Chant of Light, he has realised that the Chantry interpretation of it is wrong regarding mages and therefore may well be wrong in its interpretation of other events. It is the institution of the Chantry that is now the focus of his anger, not the teaching of Andraste. After all he maintains that the Chantry teaches that magic is a sin, which would contradict totally the Chant as it quite clearly states it is a gift of the maker and that its misuse is a sin. The original sin of the Magister was to worship false gods and misuse magic. This is why he is against blood magic because it is condemned by Andraste. If, like the warden in Origins, he has also had conversations with Chanters where they admit that certain passages from the Chant of Light have been changed/omitted, this would confirm his belief that the Chantry is at fault, not the ideas of Andraste herself. So he could have questioned whether the Chantry interpretion of the Chant with regard to the golden city is correct whilst still holding to the fact that the magisters actions did bring about the blight and the darkspawn.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

I don't think that was Anders speaking at the end of Legacy. I think this was Justice actually. Justice is astound that the chant of light might have been right.

It also crossed my mind that Corpheus was the one controlling Anders and not Justice.  Speculation on my part.

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 09 août 2011 - 03:54 .