340 réponses à ce sujet

[CMDR Locke]

Well Tali (and Garrus) happen to be the only two that care enough about you to follow into hell twice.

In the defense of the new ME2 characters they haven't had the chance, but are battling an uphill battle imho.

If my sheploo could bromance Garrus he would. Miranda my second in command? let her think that Garrus leads the fire team, who trusts Miranda anyway? And Tali is really the only person I feel you can trust to go through the vents to.

I guess my short answer is trust. If I have to save the entire galaxy, I'm damn sure not going to let someone I don't trust get close. With that said I support a Liara LI as well. She just didn't have a part in the story until DLC.

[Golden Owl]

ThanesSniper wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

My Shep is romanceless (the right girl for him just hasn't become available yet)....But I can certainly understand the attraction to Tali, for manShep Tali is the only female LI character who fits an optimistic paragon....Plus she is the only one with whom love actually blossoms, she falls in love with Shep over time, much more natural and not so forced....not "Hello, nice to meet you....lets bonk, now we are devoted".

Blossoms? The very first time I talked to her in ME2, she wanted to link suits with me. That was about as sudden as it can get.

I played ME1 and spoke with the squad mates, so yes, 'blossoms' would be very appropriate from mine and many other gamers perspectives.

[ThanesSniper]

Golden Owl wrote...

ThanesSniper wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

My Shep is romanceless (the right girl for him just hasn't become available yet)....But I can certainly understand the attraction to Tali, for manShep Tali is the only female LI character who fits an optimistic paragon....Plus she is the only one with whom love actually blossoms, she falls in love with Shep over time, much more natural and not so forced....not "Hello, nice to meet you....lets bonk, now we are devoted".

Blossoms? The very first time I talked to her in ME2, she wanted to link suits with me. That was about as sudden as it can get.

I played ME1 and spoke with the squad mates, so yes, 'blossoms' would be very appropriate from mine and many other gamers perspectives.

Well, I rarely spoke with her or used her in ME1, so it was really sudden to me. It also seemed out of character from what I had seen in the previous game. Too shy to just spill her feelings to Shepard like that. So yeah, it caught me off guard.

[StellarMagic]

Sigh...

Here we go, lets go through the arguments here and see what we've got.

A.) Sexually incompatible (Dextro/Levo Protein issue)
Sexually incompatible is true but not due to the Dextro/Levo Protien issue. All species are sexually incompatible with each other except the Asari (since they reproduce via a rather bizarre process). So Thane, Garrus, and Tali can't have children with Shepard.

Now if you're talking about equipment (sexual organs) Tali probably has the most similar to baseline humans since she's mammalian... Thane is reptilian which means unless he's some sort of reptile-mammal hybrid he doesn't have the same sort of sexual organs as Shepard. Garrus we just plain don't know since there are no know species with both an endo and exoskeleton like turians.

B.) Allergic reaction due to the Dextro/Levo Protein Issue
This is a much better argument overall. Turians and Quarians have differing chirality then all other species (Volus are even more unusual in that they're ammonia based but that's another issue). What this effectively means is that their body can not break down protein chains of the opposing chirality. Since it's unable to break them down the body's immune system attacks them resulting in an allergic reaction. Like all allergic reactions the severity is highly variable depending on how strongly allergic the person is.

Now... this only happens if proteins of the opposite chirality are ingested. Be it food, drink, sweat, saliva, and so forth... Two things result from the chirality issue.

1. Tali is immune to all bacterial infections that could possibly result from contact with Shepard.
2. Tali would suffer an allergic reaction to any exposure with Shepard.

Due to the way mammalian sexual organs work Tali is actually at greater risk to an allergic reaction from kissing (there's a lot of bacteria in saliva) Shepard then actually having just sex with him.

C.) The Quarian Overactive (but weak) Immune System
To summarize, quarians are allergic to everything, even each other. This is why the whole linked suits is brought up by Tali. If any activity is to take place between two quarians outside of their suits they link suit environments in order to exchange bacteria in limited amounts and begin to adapt to each other. I do mean any activity, sexual activity being the most likely example and hence the acts connotation, but Shala'Raan did the same for Tali's mother to allow her to serve as a midwife at Tali's birth (This is in the game, just ask Shala about how she knows Tali).

Still after the preparations Shala'Raan had an allergic reaction for a full week afterwards, as does Kal'Reegar from his suit breach on Haestrom. An allergic reaction of a week long due to foreign exposure is fully expected any time a quarian suffers a suit breach or has to remove their suit outside of a fully sterilized environment. The severity of the reaction could vary widely.

Since Tali can't link suits with Shepard, she has to brute force an adaption if she wants any sort of intimacy with him whatsoever. Hence the immune boosters and herbal supplements. Now, how quickly do symptoms come about? We have no idea, Kal'Reegar held out for God only knows how long before Shepard got there. Tali doesn't have a reaction until after she's back on the ship so maybe it has an onset like a cold or something... In which case with the suicide mission she's either dead or the mission is over before symptoms come about.

Now...

Tali clearly took precautions and did research before coming to Shepard just before the Suicide Mission. Considering her reaction was about like a head-cold I doubt it would have even affected her combat performance that much. Now... the way the romance is designed, Tali is still considered your LI if you send her away before the SM saying you don't want to risk her health. I think it's the only one that's designed that way... So if you're concerned about that, the top right option in that conversation is there for a reason.

[Orion1836]

The TVtropes list is more than enough to explain why Tali is worth it:

Adorkable
Badass Adorable/Bookworm
Clingy Costume
Covert Pervert
Deadpan Snarker
The Engineer
Even The Girls Want Her
Gadgeteer Genius
Hartman Hips
I Call It Vera (Chiktikka)
I Can't Believe A Guy Like You Would Notice Me
Latex Bio-Hazard Suit
Hot Gypsy Woman
Motor Mouth
Rescue Romance
Shrinking Violet
The Smart Guy
Undying Loyalty
What Would Shepard Do?
Worth It
Wrench Wench

[Golden Owl]

ThanesSniper wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

ThanesSniper wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

My Shep is romanceless (the right girl for him just hasn't become available yet)....But I can certainly understand the attraction to Tali, for manShep Tali is the only female LI character who fits an optimistic paragon....Plus she is the only one with whom love actually blossoms, she falls in love with Shep over time, much more natural and not so forced....not "Hello, nice to meet you....lets bonk, now we are devoted".

Blossoms? The very first time I talked to her in ME2, she wanted to link suits with me. That was about as sudden as it can get.

I played ME1 and spoke with the squad mates, so yes, 'blossoms' would be very appropriate from mine and many other gamers perspectives.

Well, I rarely spoke with her or used her in ME1, so it was really sudden to me. It also seemed out of character from what I had seen in the previous game. Too shy to just spill her feelings to Shepard like that. So yeah, it caught me off guard.

I suffered for many years with that problem, especially around her age, so I guess I can relate to her much more easily than I can relate to the more out spoken characters.....Plus attraction takes time to grow for me, so I guess I can relate much more easily with Tali on that level also....Maybe it's just really more about who we as the people playing the game relate to the easiest that make the most sense to us.

Though at the same time too, I do see Tali as an odd choice purely from a logistics point of view....immune system, diet, etc....would be a difficult life to build between her and Shep.

Modifié par Golden Owl, 10 août 2011 - 02:56 .

[AnAccountWithNoName]

jreezy wrote...

Why romance Tali? She's a nerd!

But......she is not wearing glasses.

[Xeranx]

StellarMagic wrote...

C.) The Quarian Overactive (but weak) Immune System
To summarize, quarians are allergic to everything, even each other. This is why the whole linked suits is brought up by Tali. If any activity is to take place between two quarians outside of their suits they link suit environments in order to exchange bacteria in limited amounts and begin to adapt to each other. I do mean any activity, sexual activity being the most likely example and hence the acts connotation, but Shala'Raan did the same for Tali's mother to allow her to serve as a midwife at Tali's birth (This is in the game, just ask Shala about how she knows Tali).

Still after the preparations Shala'Raan had an allergic reaction for a full week afterwards, as does Kal'Reegar from his suit breach on Haestrom. An allergic reaction of a week long due to foreign exposure is fully expected any time a quarian suffers a suit breach or has to remove their suit outside of a fully sterilized environment. The severity of the reaction could vary widely.

Since Tali can't link suits with Shepard, she has to brute force an adaption if she wants any sort of intimacy with him whatsoever. Hence the immune boosters and herbal supplements. Now, how quickly do symptoms come about? We have no idea, Kal'Reegar held out for God only knows how long before Shepard got there. Tali doesn't have a reaction until after she's back on the ship so maybe it has an onset like a cold or something... In which case with the suicide mission she's either dead or the mission is over before symptoms come about.

Now...

Tali clearly took precautions and did research before coming to Shepard just before the Suicide Mission. Considering her reaction was about like a head-cold I doubt it would have even affected her combat performance that much. Now... the way the romance is designed, Tali is still considered your LI if you send her away before the SM saying you don't want to risk her health. I think it's the only one that's designed that way... So if you're concerned about that, the top right option in that conversation is there for a reason.

From what was stated, Tali would get what amounts to an allergic reaction.  She's not allergic herself.  She can't even accurately determine that considering she's been in her suit for most of her life.  It's like deeming yourself allergic to peanuts, but you've never ingested anything with even the slightest hint of peanut oil or anything concerning peanuts.  It's an unfounded theory which remains to be tested and can only be done two ways: being the guinea pig or testing the blood.  Also, Tali can link suits with Shepard.  She describes it as the most (I don't want to say intimate, but the word I want to use escapes me) intimate method of showing trust with another person.

Now, whether her reaction to being with Shepard would have affected her or not is not the issue.  it's also not the issue that there's a comment to make about how dangerous sleeping with Tali is.  The issue is that she devoted so much energy to make this happen when it should have taken a backseat to what was most important: survival.  
If the "romance" arc (really it's just a prelude to coitus) was going to play out as it did the dialogue option that should have been there should have been somthing like:

"Tali, I want this to happen and clearly you do too.  But you're going about this as though we might not make it.  I have every intention of making it out alive.  I have every intention of all of us making it out alive.  Talking as you are gives me the impression that you have doubts about this mission and there can be no room for doubt once we get out there.

This...us...is something I want to experience without worry.  I don't care how long I'll have to wait so long as it's safe for you.  It's something I want to enjoy and look forward to doing so.  After this mission we'll earn that.  I'll earn you.  So let's focus on what we can do now to make sure we're here later... Ms. Vas Normandy."

Sappy, but still focused on the goal of surviving and steering all energies to that goal.

Modifié par Xeranx, 10 août 2011 - 05:07 .

[ladyvader]

ThanesSniper wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

ThanesSniper wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

My Shep is romanceless (the right girl for him just hasn't become available yet)....But I can certainly understand the attraction to Tali, for manShep Tali is the only female LI character who fits an optimistic paragon....Plus she is the only one with whom love actually blossoms, she falls in love with Shep over time, much more natural and not so forced....not "Hello, nice to meet you....lets bonk, now we are devoted".

Blossoms? The very first time I talked to her in ME2, she wanted to link suits with me. That was about as sudden as it can get.

I played ME1 and spoke with the squad mates, so yes, 'blossoms' would be very appropriate from mine and many other gamers perspectives.

Well, I rarely spoke with her or used her in ME1, so it was really sudden to me. It also seemed out of character from what I had seen in the previous game. Too shy to just spill her feelings to Shepard like that. So yeah, it caught me off guard.

During the cabin scene with Liara, she does mention that Tali has had a thing for Shepard since their time hunting down Saren. 

I actually created a new Shepard just for Tali's romance.  That way I wasn't unfaithful to either Ash or Liara.

[xXljoshlXx]

ladyvader wrote...
During the cabin scene with Liara, she does mention that Tali has had a thing for Shepard since their time hunting down Saren.  

I actually created a new Shepard just for Tali's romance.  That way I wasn't unfaithful to either Ash or Liara.

That's Bioware's way of covering their butt

[ThanesSniper]

ladyvader wrote...

ThanesSniper wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

ThanesSniper wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

My Shep is romanceless (the right girl for him just hasn't become available yet)....But I can certainly understand the attraction to Tali, for manShep Tali is the only female LI character who fits an optimistic paragon....Plus she is the only one with whom love actually blossoms, she falls in love with Shep over time, much more natural and not so forced....not "Hello, nice to meet you....lets bonk, now we are devoted".

Blossoms? The very first time I talked to her in ME2, she wanted to link suits with me. That was about as sudden as it can get.

I played ME1 and spoke with the squad mates, so yes, 'blossoms' would be very appropriate from mine and many other gamers perspectives.

Well, I rarely spoke with her or used her in ME1, so it was really sudden to me. It also seemed out of character from what I had seen in the previous game. Too shy to just spill her feelings to Shepard like that. So yeah, it caught me off guard.

During the cabin scene with Liara, she does mention that Tali has had a thing for Shepard since their time hunting down Saren. 

I actually created a new Shepard just for Tali's romance.  That way I wasn't unfaithful to either Ash or Liara.

Which cabin scene? The one after LotSB? 

EDIT: Just saw xXIjoshIXx's post. Seems like a logical conclusion to the remark. Bioware throwing a bone to Talimancer's who wanted something to happen in ME1.

Modifié par ThanesSniper, 10 août 2011 - 05:21 .

[Golden Owl]

ladyvader wrote...

ThanesSniper wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

ThanesSniper wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

My Shep is romanceless (the right girl for him just hasn't become available yet)....But I can certainly understand the attraction to Tali, for manShep Tali is the only female LI character who fits an optimistic paragon....Plus she is the only one with whom love actually blossoms, she falls in love with Shep over time, much more natural and not so forced....not "Hello, nice to meet you....lets bonk, now we are devoted".

Blossoms? The very first time I talked to her in ME2, she wanted to link suits with me. That was about as sudden as it can get.

I played ME1 and spoke with the squad mates, so yes, 'blossoms' would be very appropriate from mine and many other gamers perspectives.

Well, I rarely spoke with her or used her in ME1, so it was really sudden to me. It also seemed out of character from what I had seen in the previous game. Too shy to just spill her feelings to Shepard like that. So yeah, it caught me off guard.

During the cabin scene with Liara, she does mention that Tali has had a thing for Shepard since their time hunting down Saren. 

I actually created a new Shepard just for Tali's romance.  That way I wasn't unfaithful to either Ash or Liara.

Isn't that conversation only if you romanced Tali?

[Homebound]

Orion1836 wrote...

The TVtropes list is more than enough to explain why Tali is worth it:

Adorkable
Badass Adorable/Bookworm
Clingy Costume
Covert Pervert
Deadpan Snarker
The Engineer
Even The Girls Want Her
Gadgeteer Genius
Hartman Hips
I Call It Vera (Chiktikka)
I Can't Believe A Guy Like You Would Notice Me
Latex Bio-Hazard Suit
Hot Gypsy Woman
Motor Mouth
Rescue Romance
Shrinking Violet
The Smart Guy
Undying Loyalty
What Would Shepard Do?
Worth It
Wrench Wench

AARRRGGHH im still in tvtropes, why cant i leave?!

[StellarMagic]

Hellbound555 wrote...

Orion1836 wrote...

The TVtropes list is more than enough to explain why Tali is worth it:

Adorkable
Badass Adorable/Bookworm
Clingy Costume
Covert Pervert
Deadpan Snarker
The Engineer
Even The Girls Want Her
Gadgeteer Genius
Hartman Hips
I Call It Vera (Chiktikka)
I Can't Believe A Guy Like You Would Notice Me
Latex Bio-Hazard Suit
Hot Gypsy Woman
Motor Mouth
Rescue Romance
Shrinking Violet
The Smart Guy
Undying Loyalty
What Would Shepard Do?
Worth It
Wrench Wench

AARRRGGHH im still in tvtropes, why cant i leave?!

You want to know why?  Look up wiki walk there.

[Homebound]

Saphra Deden wrote...

I think Shepard and Tali's relationship will be mostly fine as long as they never want kids. Kids would really complicate things. That's true for any relationship, but especially in Tali and Shepard's unique case.

Though they could run into problems among the quarians. The quarians strike me as a very insular and even slightly xenophobic people. I don't know that most of them would approve of any quarian pairing with an alien for life. That's the kind of thing you do on your pilgrimage or if you live away from the fleet... and if you're a nobody.

Tali is important. She's a celebrity, she's nobility. I think they might expect her to marry a respected quarian man and have a child. She can't do that if she's with Shepard.

I also don't think they'd ever fully accept Shepard as one of their own. As a guest, sure, but not literally as one of them.

Quarians love to get in one each other's business after all.

Tali's love is the strongest heavy weapon in Shepard's arsenal.

[LOLandStuff]

Shepard gets to see her face even if we don't.

[Weiser_Cain]

It's a funny, drama-free romance.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Arcian wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Sometimes when you see what you want you need to grab it with both hands and to hell with the consequences.

Like the London rioters are doing right now?

Yes.

[S.A.K]

Arcian wrote...

Quole wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Quole wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Quole wrote...

Dont deny it.

I AM denying it.

But you CANT deny it.

I don't know, my denial gauge is rising steadily.

Not enough though.

Not enough, you say, and here I see that my denial has gone into plaid.

Kids!

[badmojo88]

jreezy wrote...

Why romance Tali? She's a nerd!

...we're all bickering about why to or to not date a fictional character in a video game, those in glass houses should not throw stones

[Dean_the_Young]

Arcian wrote...

BasilKarlo wrote...

You will suspend disbelief to accept Reapers and jedi-like powers that manipulate the very fabric of space, but a man loving a woman that he can't touch is too much?

Yes. That's because Reapers and dark energy-Jedis are consistent with Mass Effect's internal parameters of realism, whereas Shepard and Tali's relationship, based on a previously non-existent desire that physically harmful to at least one part of the relationship of "love", is not.

Let me draw parallels: Tali sleeping with Shepard is like a woman sleeping with a guy that has HIV. Both cases present a great health risk. You could prepare with antibiotics/condoms, but the risk is still there. No sensible person would take that risk.

That said, not everyone is a sensible person. This is especially true in reality. The thing to note here is that what's unrealistic is not the physical relationship (as it happens pretty much all the time), but the notion that love can overcome any obstacle and that the risk is worth it. Almost all forms of storytelling mediums suffer from this because a grand majority of humanity is stuck with the preconceptions that love is somehow important in the grand scheme of things, and because people confuse physical attraction and an active libido with love.

There's a lot to be said for this.


Ultimately, every decision to romance Tali to the end and sleep with her comes down to 'And I want to have sex now.' Not love: you could always try a non-physical relationship, or put it off later when the risk wouldn't risk a narrow-margin mission to protect millions. Not having sex in no way means you don't love her. But the key difference is that, yes, you want to bang her. Now.

'I wanted to bang her' has got to be one of those worst excuses of all time. It doesn't justify crime. It doesn't justify virtue. It doesn't justify a criminal act. It doesn't justify risking the lives of your partner and others. It doesn't justify risking such an important mission. All it justifies is satisfying your libido.

I mean, is impressing Jodie Foster really worth it?

The apex of responsibility isn't 'I want to, now.'

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 10 août 2011 - 12:21 .