129 réponses à ce sujet

[Izhalezan]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

sTrYkZ1LLa wrote...

According to the drs audio log she was keeping Shepard sedated but had to keep increasing the dose to keep him knocked out. I think they were keeping him knocked out till the reapers showed up, that's just my guess.

Still, it's kind of weird that they spent the past few days doing nothing to you but keep you asleep. Something's... off.

What's off to me is that they left you free on the table... why not tie you down... and why keep your weapons and armor right in the next room...? Harbinger seriously dropped the ball there.

[KevShep]

andy69156915 wrote...

SandTrout wrote...
The only evidence that the destruction of Robo-Saren and Sovereign are connected is circumstantial at best.

It would explain an oddity though. Why does harbinger need a middle person for his possessions? It would be easier to just take over directly. Instead, he takes over the Collector General, and makes him take over a Collector grunt. It appears that he uses the General as a buffer to safely take over Collectors. Reason is, I think that whenever what the Reaper was controlling dies, it goes back and stuns the one who was doing it, and possibly causes them pain. For this reason Harbinger would rather take over the General and make him take over something else, so that the General is the one who gets stunned and hurt. It's also why the General can't just take a new body every single time you destroy it, because he gets stunned after every one, and can't repossess another one until his stun ends.

You have to admit, this fits everything we've seen. A creature you was controlling will cause you to become stunned and in pain when killed, which is why Sovereign fell off the Citidel Tower right after you killed his possessed form. This is why Harbinger takes control through a buffer, to make it happen to the buffer (the General) instead of himself.

It is possible that the reapers can not control that many indoctrinated servants at any time. An indoctrinated servant most likely needs to be attended to at all times in order to maintain the hold over the servant. Since protheans have a mental ability it seems likely that the reapers have an indoctrinated servant(collector general) that controls them instead. Notice that the collector general seems to maintain some intelligence when Harbringer releases control. 

Modifié par KevShep, 11 août 2011 - 08:34 .

[SandTrout]

Notice that the collector general seems to maintain some intelligence when Harbringer releases control.

Except that it doesn't. Clip.

All that the Collector General does after "Releasing control" is twitch some and stare at the incoming explosion.

[A Great Biotic Wind]

SandTrout wrote...

Notice that the collector general seems to maintain some intelligence when Harbringer releases control.

Except that it doesn't. Clip.

All that the Collector General does after "Releasing control" is twitch some and stare at the incoming explosion.

Harbinger: "Releasing Control"

Collector General: "...What is this? The Reapers finally freed me! Like the Thorian, I gained all of Harbinger's knowledge. I'm the only one can stop them.... Oh, it seems as though Shepard is at this very base. I must go to him, and explain the current situation. Though it's going to be akward talking to him seeing how I experience time at a slower rate than Humans. Hopfully he doesn't try anything stupid... Now I just  need to tell Commander Shepard that the key to stopping the Reaper's is to find the Biotic God who will awaken when the Reapers come... Niftu Cal-," looks behind to see incoming explosion: "WTF!??!" BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM


[/b]

Modifié par A Great Biotic Wind, 11 août 2011 - 11:56 .

[KevShep]

SandTrout wrote...

Notice that the collector general seems to maintain some intelligence when Harbringer releases control.

Except that it doesn't. Clip.

All that the Collector General does after "Releasing control" is twitch some and stare at the incoming explosion.

Since Harbringer releases control that collector becomes a mindless husk basically. Also when a servant is under control for a long time(indoctrination) that servant becomes unable to think for itself. A mindless husk would not even notice an explosion....He however does. Thats how the process of indoctrination works. This has been a topic of debate for a while back on many threads.

I know that this next part is just speculation but it is interesting.
 Since TIM is working for the reapers in ME3 people did not know then why cerberus was trying to stop Harbringer in ME2 when in fact the collectors may have been able to retain some intelligence(collector general) to mess up the reapers plan. Cerberus and Harbringer may have actually been working together. How else would cerberus know "every" single move that the collectors were going to make in ME2? Cerberus always seemed to be one step a head of everybody and no one sees this as odd?  We know from the books that the reapers cant control there subjects 24/7 so in order to maintain a good servant then it makes sense to have one of them(general) retain some intelligence in order to preform to par. Mindless husk do not make good servants! Mindless husk will at some point stop listening to the reapers commands because of mind disintegration. Therefore you need to have indoctrinated intelligent servant and since the protheans have a mind connection ability then they only need one...collector general.  Over periods of cloning it could be possible for that collector to "spare" part of his mind (unknowning to the reapers) like Benezia did.

I know that that some of the second paragaph is completely up in the air at this point but the first paragraph does hold true.

Modifié par KevShep, 11 août 2011 - 12:33 .

[REAPERS_r_CTHULHU]

Keep in mind everyone that when you find out that the Collectors are actually the Protheans, it clearly states that they were "genetically repurposed" into suiting the needs of their lords, the reapers. They weren't indoctrinated, they were altered to be forever faithful servants of the reapers. When someone is indoctrinated they become crazy and appear and eventually turn into husks, which show signs of tech-bio mesh/tissue. The collectors do not.

There are also different stages of indoctrination, but inevitably, everything becomes a husk. The Collectors have stayed in their altered form for roughly 50,000 years. The Collector could still retain some independent thought while not being controlled by Harbinger.

And also as a side not for thought, being as how the Collectors' DNA were basiclly re-engineered to better suit the needs of the reapers, they could have implemented a failsafe system in their biological make-up where if they're killed while being possessed then it has no effect to the reaper controlling them. This failsafe could be the Collector general.

[didymos1120]

REAPERS_r_CTHULHU wrote...

There are also different stages of indoctrination, but inevitably, everything becomes a husk.

No, it doesn't.  See the mindless salarians on Virmire in ME1.  They're drooling morons, incapable of caring for themselves, not cybernetically resurrected corpses.  Indoctrination can induce people to impale themselves on husk spikes, as seen on the derelict, but husks are not the same technology.

[Display Name Owner]

The severity of indoctrination can be controlled by the Reaper using it, and like Didymos said extreme cases leave the subject a drooling wreck. The Protheans were said to have advanced to this stage, and the Reapers then used genetic alteration and technological implants to compensate, making them into the Collectors. Collectors are essentially glorified husks. They aren't really intelligent, they're more like walking tools. The General may or may not be an exception; we don't know if Harbinger has been in constant control of the Collectors or if it's left to the General to oversee them.

As for Sovereign, it was doing a lot of things at once. It was fighting off the fleet, whilst simultaneously interfacing with the Citadel, and the destruction of the Saren-avatar might simply have caused it to overload and stun it for a while.

Anyway, to answer the topic, I don't think the Reapers have any real personal interest in Shepard. Nothing he's accomplished against them was alone. The Protheans played a major part in the defeat of Sovereign, and Harbinger seemed barely concerned about the loss of the Collectors and Human-Reaper (which I think was nothing more than an experiment). It takes destroying the Alpha Relay for Harbinger to even label Shepard an annoyance. Look where things are at the beginning of ME3 - The Reapers are in the Galaxy laying waste to the major species' homeworlds, exactly as they planned.

[KevShep]

REAPERS_r_CTHULHU wrote...

Keep in mind everyone that when you find out that the Collectors are actually the Protheans, it clearly states that they were "genetically repurposed" into suiting the needs of their lords, the reapers. They weren't indoctrinated, they were altered to be forever faithful servants of the reapers. When someone is indoctrinated they become crazy and appear and eventually turn into husks, which show signs of tech-bio mesh/tissue. The collectors do not.

There are also different stages of indoctrination, but inevitably, everything becomes a husk. The Collectors have stayed in their altered form for roughly 50,000 years. The Collector could still retain some independent thought while not being controlled by Harbinger.

And also as a side not for thought, being as how the Collectors' DNA were basiclly re-engineered to better suit the needs of the reapers, they could have implemented a failsafe system in their biological make-up where if they're killed while being possessed then it has no effect to the reaper controlling them. This failsafe could be the Collector general.

I agree with you that they have been repurposed to suit the reapers needs. I was not implying that the collectors were indoctrinated. I was stating the because the other collectors (because of repurposing) are nothing more then husks and in order to make sure that everything works right they have only one collector that is not repurposed but indoctrinated. This.....collector would then be cloned each time to insure that he always stays at the right level of indoctrination. I do think that there were some DNA rewrite in the collector general but not anything like what the other collectors got. 

In order for a collector to have independent thought then that collector can not be repurposed. All repruposed collectors will not be able to have independent thought. That said....you need one that does and this must then be an indocrtinated collector that is cloned over and over to keep him that way.

Modifié par KevShep, 11 août 2011 - 07:12 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

In 50,000 yrs. "We are Shepard. We are the Shepard of your destiny through your destruction. Your attacks are pointless. You will be as we are."

[Izhalezan]

Arcian wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

In 50,000 yrs. "We are Shepard. We are the Shepard of your destiny through your destruction. Your attacks are pointless. You will be as we are."

Harbinger's name isn't actually Harbinger. Harbinger is only referred to by that name because it refers to itself as "the Harbinger (of your genetic destiny)".

Question is, what moniker would be appropriate for Reaper-Shep? I'm thinking "Juggernaut" because s/he's an unstoppable, living war machine of blood and destruction.

The keymaster..... or Tim.

[REAPERS_r_CTHULHU]

didymos1120 wrote...

REAPERS_r_CTHULHU wrote...

There are also different stages of indoctrination, but inevitably, everything becomes a husk.

No, it doesn't.  See the mindless salarians on Virmire in ME1.  They're drooling morons, incapable of caring for themselves, not cybernetically resurrected corpses.  Indoctrination can induce people to impale themselves on husk spikes, as seen on the derelict, but husks are not the same technology.

Well, for one, the longer an organic is near reaper technology the more husk-like they become, Saren is an obvious example, he eventually became a Turian husk. He didn't impale himself on a husk spike. And the humans on board the derelict reaper were said to have just worshipped/been near the reaper and the spikes for so long that they became husks. Impalement on the spike isn't the only way a husk is made.

[REAPERS_r_CTHULHU]

isnudo wrote...
 Look where things are at the beginning of ME3 - The Reapers are in the Galaxy laying waste to the major species' homeworlds, exactly as they planned.

This is where you're wrong, my friend. The reapers attack Earth first. Every single reaper. Now the question is why do the reapers go after one race that they feel is so beneath them and try their hardest to completely annihilate them before they go to the citadel and begin their usual sweep of the galaxy?

[KevShep]

REAPERS_r_CTHULHU wrote...

isnudo wrote...
 Look where things are at the beginning of ME3 - The Reapers are in the Galaxy laying waste to the major species' homeworlds, exactly as they planned.

This is where you're wrong, my friend. The reapers attack Earth first. Every single reaper. Now the question is why do the reapers go after one race that they feel is so beneath them and try their hardest to completely annihilate them before they go to the citadel and begin their usual sweep of the galaxy?

The reapers have been interested in humans for a while now. My question now is if they need/want humans then why are they trying to annihilate us completely? Did something change? Or are they just trying to stop the ships leaving earth?

[REAPERS_r_CTHULHU]

KevShep wrote...

REAPERS_r_CTHULHU wrote...

isnudo wrote...
 Look where things are at the beginning of ME3 - The Reapers are in the Galaxy laying waste to the major species' homeworlds, exactly as they planned.

This is where you're wrong, my friend. The reapers attack Earth first. Every single reaper. Now the question is why do the reapers go after one race that they feel is so beneath them and try their hardest to completely annihilate them before they go to the citadel and begin their usual sweep of the galaxy?

The reapers have been interested in humans for a while now. My question now is if they need/want humans then why are they trying to annihilate us completely? Did something change? Or are they just trying to stop the ships leaving earth?

My best bet is that they thought that we could become useful to them but after realizing that we were too resky and still evolving and growing stronger, that we were too much of a radical. It's more or less on the lines of " if you won't join us then we'll just kill you because you're too dangerous to keep alive. "

[didymos1120]

REAPERS_r_CTHULHU wrote...

Well, for one, the longer an organic is near reaper technology the more husk-like they become, Saren is an obvious example, he eventually became a Turian husk. He didn't impale himself on a husk spike.

Sovereign gave him new implants after Virmire, which he tells you in the Citadel tower, and he wasn't a husk.  He was an avatar, like Grayson. Husks are dumb muscle, and aren't directly controlled.  He didn't just magically acquire those implants by being indoctrinated.  Read the Codex.  That ain't how it works. The other stuff he already had were just cybernetic prosthetics.

And the humans on board the derelict reaper were said to have just worshipped/been near the reaper and the
spikes for so long that they became husks.

Nope. Not what happened on the derelict.  You can see bodies on the spikes that haven't been converted yet.

Impalement on the spike isn't the only way a husk is made.

Irrelevant, because indoctrination isn't one of them.  The two processes are not the same.  This ought to be obvious given that we've seen heavily indoctrinated people who showed absolutely no sign of being on the way to becoming husks. 

Modifié par didymos1120, 12 août 2011 - 02:16 .

[didymos1120]

Arcian wrote...

Harbinger's name isn't actually Harbinger. Harbinger is only referred to by that name because it refers to itself as "the Harbinger (of your genetic destiny)".

Harbinger also says "We are Harbinger", full stop. 

[ThePwener]

didymos1120 wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Harbinger's name isn't actually Harbinger. Harbinger is only referred to by that name because it refers to itself as "the Harbinger (of your genetic destiny)".

Harbinger also says "We are Harbinger", full stop. 

That's another example of what he mentioned.

On-topic: The Reapers aren't afraid of anything (pricks) and brush Shepard off as an insect who keeps blowing they're **** up (somehow....) and this overconfidence wll be they're downfall. They did try to kill him though (try, lol).

[ThePwener]

REAPERS_r_CTHULHU wrote...

Well, for one, the longer an organic is near reaper technology the more husk-like they become, Saren is an obvious example, he eventually became a Turian husk. He didn't impale himself on a husk spike. And the humans on board the derelict reaper were said to have just worshipped/been near the reaper and the spikes for so long that they became husks. Impalement on the spike isn't the only way a husk is made.

Wow, that is the biggest mistake I have seen in the internet so far. That says a lot considering we're in the BSN.

[didymos1120]

ThePwener wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Harbinger's name isn't actually Harbinger. Harbinger is only referred to by that name because it refers to itself as "the Harbinger (of your genetic destiny)".

Harbinger also says "We are Harbinger", full stop. 

That's another example of what he mentioned.

Um, no.  It's not "the harbinger of whatever".  It's just "We ARE Harbinger." 

ETA: And that's how it is in the subtitles.  It's only capitalized when Harbinger calls himself "Harbinger", just like a proper noun should be. Every other time it's said by Harby, it's in lowercase.  Oh, except for the time we get "I am Harbinger."

Modifié par didymos1120, 12 août 2011 - 02:42 .

[ThePwener]

didymos1120 wrote...

ThePwener wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Harbinger's name isn't actually Harbinger. Harbinger is only referred to by that name because it refers to itself as "the Harbinger (of your genetic destiny)".

Harbinger also says "We are Harbinger", full stop. 

That's another example of what he mentioned.

Um, no.  It's not "the harbinger of whatever".  It's just "We ARE Harbinger." 

Yeah, as in all Reapers/all his programs. Harbinger is not his name, only what he says he is to organics.

Sovereign=/=Nazara

[Sisterofshane]

@Pwener, he also says "I am Harbinger", implying that it is what we are to refer to him as (his name)
masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Harbinger_%28Collector%29%2FBattle_Quotes

[ThePwener]

Sisterofshane wrote...

@Pwener, he also says "I am Harbinger", implying that it is what we are to refer to him as (his name)
masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Harbinger_%28Collector%29%2FBattle_Quotes

No, that's his "stage name" for us given by BW so we can identify him. Like Sovereign, which also has a dark meaning.

Sovereign's true name was Nazara, so along those lines lie the Reaper's true names.

[didymos1120]

Hell, even Sovereign referred to himself as "Sovereign" during the final battle on the Citadel. While "Harbinger" may not be its real name, it is at least one of the names it uses.