20 réponses à ce sujet

[Gespenst]

And I'm going to have to deal with something I've never had to before:

Carver.

I've only spent about 20 minutes with him total in all of my DA2 playthroughs so far but I don't really like him.

To those of you who've dealt with him before, what do you think makes the better story/interactions

Being his friend or his rival? Letting him become a templar or having him become a grey warden?

[Linkforlife]

I like to make him a Templar, but it makes it harder to get him on the friendship path since he gets pissed if you do not bring him to the Deep Roads. It also makes sense given the fact that he now has the Templar specialization, but really, it is your decision.

[dragonflight288]

Carver will generally support templar decisions in Act 1, usually citing keeping a low profile and not getting on their bad side.

He generally is a huge ****** because he has a huge inferiority complex. But there are some conversations that make it worthwhile having him in. Meeting fenris for one.

Carver: If you have a problem with my brother/sister, then you have a problem with me!

If he joins the templars he seems to hold a huge grudge against Hawke for not taking him down in the deep roads. If he joins the Wardens, he becomes much easier to deal with when we see him.

Templar Carver blames Hawke for Leandra's death.

Warden Carver says Hawke did all he/she could.

I haven't seen templar Carver in Legacy, but Warden Carver fits right in, having a grand old time, even giving his brother a hard time about his romantic relationship.

In the final battle of the game (not Legacy), Warden Carver will side with whoever Hawke does. If you side with the templars while Carver is a templar, they have a very emotional bonding moment where they accept each other.

Templar Carver WILL turn on Meredith before Cullen does when Meredith tries to kill Hawke, no matter who is chosen. Can't rejoin the party unless Hawke sides with the templars though.

[Rifneno]

It's ridiculously hard to get him on the friend path. Unless you want all your Act I decisions to made around his childish whims and have him end up a Warden (as Linkforlife mentions, he gets real pissy if you don't take him through the Deep Roads), expect rivalry. The devs even seemed to expect it, as the one time I used the debug console to set him as a friend early on, almost all his Act I dialogue was still rivalry based.

As for warden vs. templar, he's happier in the end as a warden because he's part of something important even if it is a tough life. Personally... I don't think he deserves the honor of being a warden. And he's still an ass. With max friendship, his Act II letter is complaining about how hard a warden's life is, and "in case you forgot, it's your fault that I'm here." He's still more tolerable as a warden (not that that's saying much). Templar Carver will blame Hawke for Leandra's death whereas Warden Carver will say he's sure Hawke did everything s/he could, for instance.

Damnit, ninja'd by a dorf!  Tricksie hobbitses!

Modifié par Rifneno, 09 août 2011 - 02:42 .

[Gervaise]

My first play through was as a mage. As interaction with Carver is only in Act 1, it is far easier to antagonise him and continue to be a rival, than win him over to being a friend. As I preferred other characters in my party, I didn't include him much once they had been recruited and didn't miss him when he left for the Templars. The main limitation to having him be a grey warden is who you take with you to the deep roads. Basically your party will have to be you, Carver, Varic and Anders - Varric is a given and Anders is necessary for Carver to survive. Obviously, as with Bethany, there will be encounters as a Grey Warden that you will not get as a Templar, and his responses will be different from hers, both because of his general character and your relationship with him but on the whole I'd say leave him behind and let him become a Templar. I gather some people like Carver but I must admit I can't see it myself. I didn't go out of my way to antagonise him - he just seemed to take offence very easily and definitely didn't like the humorous, witty comments that I generally used.

[TEWR]

Legacy gives a fair bit of Friendship for Carver. I believe +25

[Gespenst]

"You make him understand! We're running from your bloody templars!"

I think I'll take Carver with me. I haven't decided if I'll bring Anders or not.

[Tainan7509]

Gespenst wrote...

"You make him understand! We're running from your bloody templars!"

I think I'll take Carver with me. I haven't decided if I'll bring Anders or not.

I did not bring Anders into deep road at first but when i seeing Carver dying, i reload and bring Anders second time to save him. Carver is an ass (everyone know that) but he is not a terrible enough to make me to kill him. I would rather make him as Warden and hope for the best.

Modifié par Tainan7509, 10 août 2011 - 10:53 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Rivalry. Believe me, Carver makes it impossible for me to friend him, even if it was easy. And yeah, Warden is the way to go. He's a pissed off, bitter ****** if he's a templar.

[thegoldfinch]

Rivalry and Templar feels like the 'correct' combination to me, especially played with a female Hawke. It fits more with the theme of mages versus templars and it parallels Gamlen and Leandras relationship in a spooky sort of way that I really like.

I love Carver and the sibling bickering, actually. It feels realistic. My only complaint is that Hawke and Carver never seemed to reconcile, which is what should have happened. Reserving Legacy for Act III seems to fix this rather nicely.

Modifié par pixieface, 10 août 2011 - 11:18 .

[Gespenst]

For reasons I won't go in to I made a save near the end of act one and rushed through the expedition and the act two main story quests (took about 1 1/2 hours surprisingly) and Carver was a templar. When Hawke saw her little brother for the first time in three years she was all choked up (but wouldn't admit even under pain of pain)...

Hawke: Carver... it's been a long time.
Carver: Not long enough

Oh, you ass, Carver!

I'm going to make him a Warden.

[Reznore57]

I choose Warden Carver , because even if he's a brat , he's a happy one.
As a templar , he seems full of doubts , and pretty much miserable.
And Rival Carver is more fun , there's a lot of passive agressive tension with Hawke .

[leggywillow]

Carver is an awesome, awesome companion.  Rivaling him is probably the most fun I've had in the game.  Yes, he's a complete ass and that's the point.  My favorite conversation in the entire game is the one you can have with Carver right after his Birthright quest, where he and Hawke basically have a shouting match.  It's great.  Playing a flippant Hawke who loves to tease his surly little brother is so much fun.  There is so much real and understandable tension between the two.

I don't understand why people have such a problem with dickish characters.  They're fun.

[leggywillow]

Gespenst wrote...

"You make him understand! We're running from your bloody templars!"

I think I'll take Carver with me. I haven't decided if I'll bring Anders or not.

Take him with you to get Fenris.  When Fenris gets uppity with you for being a mage, Carver says "If you threaten my sister/brother, you threaten me."

He loves his sibling even though he doesn't like him half the time.  It's a very, very fascinating family dynamic.  It really baffles me why people just want to kill him for being a jerk.  Of course he's a jerk, and it makes their relationship interesting.

[Gespenst]

Carver wrote...

How are you? Hope all is well. Things are good here, I suppose. Grey Warden legends do fail to mention a few things, though! I've yet to do anything remotely glorious or honorable since arriving. In fact, most of it is painful, dirty, often horrific work. Thanks a lot! (In case you forgot that it's your fault I'm here.)

The positive is that I'm alive and part of something greater. I've a chance to prove myself. Maybe I'll even step out of your big fat shadow! Thing is, Ferelden already has a hero that stopped the Blight. Pfft! Big deal, right?

Say hello to Mother and Gamlen for me.
Carver

Great, Carver. Just great. And don't write a letter to your mother in three years either, while you're at it.

...did he just call me fat?

Modifié par Gespenst, 14 août 2011 - 11:57 .

[dragonflight288]

lol

Yup. He's a lot easier to deal with later on in the game when we see him again. He's less a butt.

[dgcatanisiri]

leggywillow wrote...

Gespenst wrote...

"You make him understand! We're running from your bloody templars!"

I think I'll take Carver with me. I haven't decided if I'll bring Anders or not.

Take him with you to get Fenris.  When Fenris gets uppity with you for being a mage, Carver says "If you threaten my sister/brother, you threaten me."

He loves his sibling even though he doesn't like him half the time.  It's a very, very fascinating family dynamic.  It really baffles me why people just want to kill him for being a jerk.  Of course he's a jerk, and it makes their relationship interesting.

Exactly. It's more beause of Carver than anything else that I play mostly mage. I usually try to play as friendly as possible with him, saying that he and Hawke had a rocky relationship for years before, but when Bethany died, my Hawkes decide to make amends and forge a good relationship with their brother because they don't have the history of closeness that Hawke and Bethany had. And Carver is expecting this to be his older sibling just screwing with him.

I just feel there's more dramatic weight through the conflict. Bethany is just too... passive a character for me. She is willing to stand by and let Hawke make the deicisions without offering her opinions. Carver with stand and demand recognition, which makes him more interesting because he doesn't just go along with Hawke's decision.

[nuclearpengu1nn]

Rival because in real life brothers fight but they have each others back youll know what i mean when you progress through the story

[dragonflight288]

I just feel there's more dramatic weight through the conflict. Bethany is just too... passive a character for me. She is willing to stand by and let Hawke make the deicisions without offering her opinions. Carver with stand and demand recognition, which makes him more interesting because he doesn't just go along with Hawke's decision.

Of course Bethany is going to let Hawke make all the decisions and do her best not to stand out. She's an apostate who doesn't want to get her family in trouble at all. She is conflicted in her desire to be normal and her desire to help her family. She's close to Hawke and as long as she stands behind him/her then there's less likely a chance for the templars to catch her.

At least, that's my interpretation of Bethany. I like them both.

[dgcatanisiri]

dragonflight288 wrote...

I just feel there's more dramatic weight through the conflict. Bethany is just too... passive a character for me. She is willing to stand by and let Hawke make the deicisions without offering her opinions. Carver with stand and demand recognition, which makes him more interesting because he doesn't just go along with Hawke's decision.

Of course Bethany is going to let Hawke make all the decisions and do her best not to stand out. She's an apostate who doesn't want to get her family in trouble at all. She is conflicted in her desire to be normal and her desire to help her family. She's close to Hawke and as long as she stands behind him/her then there's less likely a chance for the templars to catch her.

At least, that's my interpretation of Bethany. I like them both.

I understand why she's like that. I just prefer the spark that comes from the conflict Carver creates, particularly due to the fact that it's grounded in (however grudging) concern. You get rivalry from him for speaking against the templars (particularly to their faces) and for doing things that place you in danger. As much as he grouses about Hawke's action, he clearly loves his older sibling and just can't express it properly.

While I like Bethany, she strikes me as too passive a character. While I understand the apostate in a templar controlled city doing that, it leaves me without much of an impression of who she is as a person because she's so reluctant to speak up. There are hints of more personality in her party banters, I would really have benefited from seeing more cutscene interactions with her and the party, rather than depending on the game to randomly spit out the banters while I'm running around and hitting auto-story-progression points or jumping to the map right when the banter begins.

[phaonica]

leggywillow wrote...

Carver is an awesome, awesome companion.  Rivaling him is probably the most fun I've had in the game.  Yes, he's a complete ass and that's the point.  My favorite conversation in the entire game is the one you can have with Carver right after his Birthright quest, where he and Hawke basically have a shouting match.  It's great.  Playing a flippant Hawke who loves to tease his surly little brother is so much fun.  There is so much real and understandable tension between the two.

I don't understand why people have such a problem with dickish characters.  They're fun.

I agree. I love Carver as a character, both as a Templar and as a Warden (though I prefer him as a Warden). The dynamic between him and Hawke, I thought, was a more interesting and touching relationship than pretty much any other in the game.