450 réponses à ce sujet

[Darkelefantos1]

Kel_Sjet wrote...

Here is a newsflash.
It is part of his job description that he cannot lie about the game. Sure, the can market some aspects more than others, but if he says "feature X or Y is not going to be part of the game", then it won't. That's just how professionalism works.
If he says "romances are not going to be a big part of ME3" then you better well believe it.


Why on earth, do tell me, should I believe you, a random faceless forum goer, over an actual BW employee?

1. I assume because history has shown that his statements are to be taken with big grains of salt.

2. That's bull actually. Part of successful marketing is also to lie to make the game look better, or to hide the truth so they can make it a special reveal. Saying that the marketing guy cannot lie about the game he's working for is like saying that politicians keep all the promises they make to get elected, it's naive.

[Badpie]

You guys, we can't just dismiss Silverman's statements. He's the MOUTHPIECE. He's THE GUY. He's not "full of crap" or "lying." What he says actually matters. Hence the reason for stating my concern. If it had just been a subjective article with no quotes from someone from the Bioware team I wouldn't have even made this post.

[Kel_Sjet]

littlezack wrote...
Are you not the same guy who was complaining just a few days ago about how the mods are a tolitarian regime that crushes and any all dissent against Mass Effect with indiscriminate fervor?

And even if he's not straight lying, it certainly wouldn't be the first time a marketing-man exaggerated or trumped up something to sound more enticing to a particular group. They do that sort of thing all the time. Saying that all marketing is 100% fact is just naive.

Aren't you the same guy who just a few days ago proved that you are incapable of basic reading?

From my previous post, if you bothered to read before spewing your nonsense all over the forums:

Here is a newsflash.
It is part of his job description that he cannot lie about the game. Sure, the can market some aspects more than others, but if he says "feature X or Y is not going to be part of the game", then it won't. That's just how professionalism works.

Take note, he cannot lie. If he says feature X is not in the game, it isn't.


Now take your nonsense elsewhere. I'm sick of people like you.

[Ianamus]

According to the statistics they gathered 50% of the people who played Mass Effect 2 imported a save from Mass Effect 1. Considering how many people played Mass Effect 2 I wouldn't be surprised if 75-90% of the people who play Mass Effect 3 played either Mass Effect 2 or Mass Effect 1.

They are putting all of this effort into trying to get new people when the majority will have already at least played Mass Effect 2. They should be spending that effort getting the millions who already played the first two games to purchase the third.

Modifié par EJ107, 09 août 2011 - 03:02 .

[littlezack]

Badpie wrote...

You guys, we can't just dismiss Silverman's statements. He's the MOUTHPIECE. He's THE GUY. He's not "full of crap" or "lying." What he says actually matters. Hence the reason for stating my concern. If it had just been a subjective article with no quotes from someone from the Bioware team I wouldn't have even made this post.

He's been known to be full of crap before. And as I said - it's common for marketing to trump up or exaggerate things for various reasons. I'm not calling him a liar, but I prefer to save my worrying for when I actually have something tangible to worry about.

[littlezack]

Kel_Sjet wrote...

littlezack wrote...
Are you not the same guy who was complaining just a few days ago about how the mods are a tolitarian regime that crushes and any all dissent against Mass Effect with indiscriminate fervor?

And even if he's not straight lying, it certainly wouldn't be the first time a marketing-man exaggerated or trumped up something to sound more enticing to a particular group. They do that sort of thing all the time. Saying that all marketing is 100% fact is just naive.

Aren't you the same guy who just a few days ago proved that you are incapable of basic reading?

From my previous post, if you bothered to read before spewing your nonsense all over the forums:

Here is a newsflash.
It is part of his job description that he cannot lie about the game. Sure, the can market some aspects more than others, but if he says "feature X or Y is not going to be part of the game", then it won't. That's just how professionalism works.

Take note, he cannot lie. If he says feature X is not in the game, it isn't.

Yes. Nobody in marketing has ever exaggerated features about their product. This never happens. Right. Every time you press a button in DA2, something awesome happens. Even select.

Modifié par littlezack, 09 août 2011 - 03:03 .

[SpEcIaLRyAn]

Its Silverman's blatant disregard to actually acknowledge the fact that some people are smarter than him. Plus considering what he said it sounds like he doesn't even play the game. I mean I remember everything I did. How? Well when you play the game several times you don't just forget everything you did.

"Well, what about when I had this love affair?’ It’s like, who cares? It’s all out war!" Mister Silverman it is most certainly not ike that. If Casey Hudson were to be the market director I am sure we would get more accurate information. Than again if Casey Hudson were marketing the game than Silverman would be Executive Producer and we don't want that. Silverman makes it sound like the game is just about war. Well maybe it is about war but its the characters and story surrounding that war that make this franchise worthwhile. Don't listen to a word this man says. Go to Hudson's twitter if you want official information.

[CBKeffer]

Kel_Sjet wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...
That's all they mean. It's marketing drone speak.

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
Silverman's full of crap.

I'm at a loss as to why these kind of comments are even allowed on these forums. Why are the mods not acting?

Silverman actually works for Bioware. That is more than can be said for almost all non-official members of these forums.

He has seen, played, and helped develop the game (if you think that marketing people have absolutely no input in the game whatsoever then you are all very very mistaken. Sure, they may not help design stuff in its day to day, but saying they have zero input just shows your naivety about the games industry). He has almost infinite more knowledge about the game than you.

An actual, bonafide BW employee is telling you what the game is going to be about, but you guys call him an outright 'liar' and a 'drone'. I mean ffs this guy has been selected from the whole company to publicly talk about the game.

Here is a newsflash.
It is part of his job description that he cannot lie about the game. Sure, the can market some aspects more than others, but if he says "feature X or Y is not going to be part of the game", then it won't. That's just how professionalism works.
If he says "romances are not going to be a big part of ME3" then you better well believe it.


I'm getting really sick and tired of people like this on the forums. People who think that they can just call anyone, even actual BW employees, liars just because they don't like what they hear.


Why on earth, do tell me, should I believe you, a random faceless forum goer, over an actual BW employee?

Who said anything about lying? He's simply spinning the information to fit what he thinks will get new customers interested in the game and will boost sales. As for things like romances not being a part of the game, well I'm pretty sure that has bee dirrectly contradicted by other bioware employees multiple times....so there is that. He's a salesman plain and simple, so operating on that information, which do you think will attract more new people to buy the final game in a series, telling them about how much all the decisions will impact their play through, or telling them about how awesome the game will be regardless of if they have played the previous installations or not? (hint, it's the second option).

[MetzgerGeorg]

Sorry for that....

This is just a test...

[Kel_Sjet]

Darkelefantos1 wrote...
1. I assume because history has shown that his statements are to be taken with big grains of salt.

2. That's bull actually. Part of successful marketing is also to lie to make the game look better, or to hide the truth so they can make it a special reveal. Saying that the marketing guy cannot lie about the game he's working for is like saying that politicians keep all the promises they make to get elected, it's naive.

I am absolutely shocked at how ignorant people can be, and how incapable they can be of understanding basic things.

If you think it is the job of marketing to lie, then there is just no hope for you.

Marketing people can upmarket specific things about a game and downplay others, but they cannot outright lie about a game. Anyone who has ever held a professional job knows this.


There is a MASSIVE difference between someone downplaying a feature, and outright lying about it:

e.g.

Interviewer: What can you tell us about feature X?
Marketing guy: Yea, feature X is cool, but let me tell you about feature Y!
^THAT is downplaying.

Marketing guy: Feature X does not exist anymore.
^THAT is a 'statement', which by the very definition that they cannot outright lie about something, means that what he has said is true.


God, how can people be so oblivious. Has none of you ever had a professional job?

[Radahldo]

God, how can people be so oblivious. Has none of you ever had a professional job?

Were you there when he was honor bound to never lie or anyway exaggerate? Are you his broter or something why are you so offended

[littlezack]

Right, just ignore the troll folks. The guy doesn't even post here unless he's trying to get a rise out of people, move along.

[tomorrowstation]

Silverman's promoting, that's all. Talking to people who don't know what Mass Effect is. We aren't his audience in this instance.

[Kel_Sjet]

Radahldo wrote...
Were you there when he was honor bound to never lie or anyway exaggerate? Are you his broter or something why are you so offended

FFS, I don't know how to say this any clearer.

THERE IS A MASSIVE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN OUTRIGHT LYING ABOUT SOMETHING AND EXAGGERATING OR DOWNPLAYING SOMETHING.

I absolutely HATE extremist thinking.

[The Spamming Troll]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

They are going to catch up ME3 newbies with another interactive comic or some such device.

i think thats what the trials for. shep will get questioned about his previous actions and thats how new players will be introduced to the story and old players reminded of what they did previously.

[Kel_Sjet]

littlezack wrote...

Right, just ignore the troll folks. The guy doesn't even post here unless he's trying to get a rise out of people, move along.

Riiight.

So me coming in here saying that someone is out of line calling a BW employee a "liar", "full of crap" and a "drone" makes me a troll right?

What a mighty fine contribution you are to these forums and the human gene pool.

[fortunesque]

Midnight Reyn wrote...

I also agree with this.

The continual PR focus on the fact that the third game is a perfect place for people new to the series to jump in makes me very worried about the depth of the experience of the final game for players who have carried through their Shepards from the first game.

And as a fan from the start of the series it makes me feel undervalued when the majority of articles I read about Mass Effect continuously focus on how easy it will be for new players to pick up the game.

I get that money needs to be made on this game. I get that bringing in more people to the series makes sense. But I don't think the continual focus on how the final game in a trilogy is the ideal place for newcomers to the series, and that they'll be able to understand what's going on without having experience with the last two games is helping much.

This.

I'll come out of my hidey hole from a private group and say that I'm not surprised in the least that this is BW's PR spin yet again. They said similar things about ME2, which turned out to be true. They spat on the choices from ME1 and made way to attempt to court a new audience.

I don't doubt that ME3 will be Mass Effect 'flavored' but it'll be a far cry from the original in plot, lore, and gameplay.

[Whatever42]

“New people will get it, but existing fans will see the stakes being raised. It will still have levels of nuance – I don’t want to spoil anything – but you’re definitely going to be seeing things that you’ll be like: ‘Oh, I remember that!’"

Again, all Silverman said is that new fans will get caught up into the series. That's all. Yes, Silverman works for Bioware. No, he's not lying.

But on the other hand, we've had Bioware writers tell us that they have a whole matrix of game decisions that they need to evolve.

For example, as a new player you're told that you need to help rescue a krogan female. You're given a little background so you understand the importance of the mission. The new people now get it. But unless you played ME1 and ME2, you really don't understand the full story of Wrex and the Krogan people. There is an immense amount of nuance and background that you miss without playing ME1 and ME2.

We saw the same thing in ME2. So many people jumped into ME2 (which they also said was a great starting point) and then played ME1 later. They were amazed at how much more depth ME1 gave the story in ME2.

Again, STOP PANICKING!

[Radahldo]

FFS, I don't know how to say this any clearer.

Well, writing it in caps didnt work it seems. I don't know what else you can do but get fresh air at this point

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Kel_Sjet wrote...
I'm getting really sick and tired of people like this on the forums. People who think that they can just call anyone, even actual BW employees, liars just because they don't like what they hear.
Why on earth, do tell me, should I believe you, a random faceless forum goer, over an actual BW employee?

There's a difference between being full of crap and outright being called a liar.

The whole point of marketing is to manipulate the feelings of the potential consumers into buying your product.  That means taking the information that is generally considered a negative and trying to make it sound positive.  For example, Silverman tried to make DA2's repetitive, bland environments sound positive by claiming that DAO felt disjointed with the varied areas and saying nobody even noticed, or nobody cared, about all the "fallen books" all over the floors of the mage tower.

He may not be a liar, but he is full of crap.  Marketing speak is manipulative and sensationalized pretty much as a rule.  As such, what he says must be taken with a grain of salt, but it still is a good indicator of what BioWare is actually doing.  you just have to try and cut through the crap to get to the truth.

[ratzerman]

SpEcIaLRyAn wrote...
Don't listen to a word this man says. Go to Hudson's twitter if you want official information.

But he IS OFFICIAL. That's the whole problem. The head of marketing at Bioware pretty much just said "LOLromances."

[Whatever42]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

They are going to catch up ME3 newbies with another interactive comic or some such device.

i think thats what the trials for. shep will get questioned about his previous actions and thats how new players will be introduced to the story and old players reminded of what they did previously.

That makes perfect sense. Especially since I don't believe we're getting totally rebooted like in ME2. That would be a great device for launching new players into ME3.

[RubiconI7]

Kel_Sjet wrote...

littlezack wrote...
Are you not the same guy who was complaining just a few days ago about how the mods are a tolitarian regime that crushes and any all dissent against Mass Effect with indiscriminate fervor?

And even if he's not straight lying, it certainly wouldn't be the first time a marketing-man exaggerated or trumped up something to sound more enticing to a particular group. They do that sort of thing all the time. Saying that all marketing is 100% fact is just naive.

Aren't you the same guy who just a few days ago proved that you are incapable of basic reading?

From my previous post, if you bothered to read before spewing your nonsense all over the forums:

Here is a newsflash.
It is part of his job description that he cannot lie about the game. Sure, the can market some aspects more than others, but if he says "feature X or Y is not going to be part of the game", then it won't. That's just how professionalism works.

Take note, he cannot lie. If he says feature X is not in the game, it isn't.


Now take your nonsense elsewhere. I'm sick of people like you.

Degrading people really helps your case.

What your are saying is akin to saying a politican does not "lie". No of course not,
instead they doublespeak. You are correct that they cannot lie, but it
is also professionalism to a salesman to spin fantastic half-truths,
weaving the info in a way that is pleasing to his audience. The OP does have legitimate reason to be worried because what Silverman says has, must have, linens of truth in them. The problem is we have no way of telling which part of his comment is exaggerated and which part is not.

Its like watching a trailer, they only show the exciting parts of it. Of course the bits are in the movie, but only so many bits.

[esalor]

I have a problem with marketing ME3 like this:
Both ME1 and ME2 are released in the same generation and are still available. While ME1 can be a bit intimidating and/or frustrating to a newcomer, it is far from unplayable (don't get me wrong, I love it to pieces, I am talking about its appeal to a newcomer).

Also, ME3 is half a year away from release. My question is, instead of trying to appeal to people who have never played ME before by saying "come on in, it will be great and accessible", why isn't the message: "You can still get the first two games and be ready for the end".

When "A Dance with Dragons" came out, did its publishers sold this line? I am guessing no. Instead they re-publicized the whole series and tried to encourage non-readers to get into it from the beginning (HBO series helped a lot obviously).
I think this speaks for the intellectually inferior position games are attributed in the entertainment industry and diminishes their narrative value.
This is not Bioware's fault, obviously. They can only force the marketplace so much but I think ME universe deserves the same respect as something like Westeros.

I hope I made myself clear.