450 réponses à ce sujet

[Errol Dnamyx]

Of course Silverman tries to make the game look good to new customers, but he can't call ME3 a natural entry point. This has nothing to do with marketing speak, it's just dumb.
You can tell he's trying really hard to do his job, but so far he has been a human marketing disaster.

Modifié par Errol Dnamyx, 09 août 2011 - 03:56 .

[fortunesque]

I'll reiterate what I said before:

They said the *same* kinds of things about ME2 and it was a completely different game than a lot of people expected. Some took this as good, others took it as bad.

I guess the whole thing depends on what kind of flavor you want Mass Effect to have. If ME3 is more ME2 flavored than ME1, then it'll take a lot of convincing for me to get it. I don't like my decisions and affiliations being casually swept under the rug.

[ratzerman]

There's seems to be quite a disconnect between Casey and David's takes on the importance of past decisions.

[JamieCOTC]

Mr. Silverman is directing his comments at a very specific consumer, the new guy (or girl), most likely casual shooter fans. He is trying to reassure potential new customers through lies of omission that ME3 is the game for them. That's what marketing is all about. It's lies of omission heightened w/ exaggerated truths. It's also the third game in the trilogy, so of course they are going to say, "it's a great starting point." To do otherwise would be turning away customers.

"It's a new beginning." Yes, it is. It's a new game w/ a new story, but that doesn't mean there won't be carry over from the previous two games if you import an existing Shepard. In fact it's already been confirmed that ME3 will have almost twice as many links back to the previous games than ME2.

"Who cares about romances." To a new player, it doesn't matter much, but both Casey Hudson and Mac Walters have confirmed the romances in ME3. In fact a New Yorker piece on Jennifer Hale confirmed that fact that BW is trying to deepen Shepard's character which will no doubt include romances.

So, yeah, don't worry. If Casey Hudson and Mac Walters start saying this stuff then worry.

[Midnight Reyn]

didymos1120 wrote...

Nice quotemining there.  Actual statements by Hudson in context (your snippets in red, particulary relevant stuff you left out in green):

What do you see as the biggest, or perhaps most unexpected changes in Mass Effect 3 compared to the original Mass Effect?

The feel and intensity of combat is one of the things people will take people by surprise.  I think [color=rgb(255, 0, 0)">we’ve come full-circle in terms of capturing an amazing 3rd person shooter experience in a game where you also control a diverse squad and have access to spectacular powers. ]We also are going places in the story that are bigger, more shocking, and more emotionally powerful than we’ve ever done before. It’s a pretty amazing range from gigantic action scenes down to the most delicate personal moments[/color], and I think players are going to have an experience unlike anything they’ve played before.

What do you see as the current holy grail for RPGs right now?

To be honest, I don’t know.  I never consider myself an RPG developer, and I don’t really worry about traditional genre conventions other than our own goals for making a great game. Typically our goals - creating interactive story, compelling progression, intense combat, and exploration -result in games that are classified as RPGs. But my intention is always to make the best possible story-driven games, and for me and my team, the next great design that we’re excited about is what we’re doing with ME3.

Also worth quoting this other response earlier in that interview:

Much is made of the information ported in saves between games - how significant are those profiles in Mass Effect 3 and how do you ensure things like DLC packs have an impact even though not everyone plays them?

We designed ME3 to be able to handle all different kinds of player backgrounds, whether you’re totally new to the ME universe or you have played every game and DLC so far.  Each experience, and the choices inside it, simply set different situations and outcomes that you’ll experience in ME3.  The result is that if you have had a deep experience with decisions in past games, you’ll see those having real impacts on the ME3 storyline.  But if you’re coming with no prior experience with the series, ME3 introduces itself to you in a way that’s custom-designed for you.

I’m aware of what he said. I read the whole article. Out of context doesn’t mean much when I was using those quotes as a point to say I’m worried about the classification of the game.

Pointing out other segments of the article doesn’t negate the concern I have, nor make it any less valid.

Modifié par Midnight Reyn, 09 août 2011 - 04:01 .

[Gorosaur]

Enough is enough. I've had it with these monkey fighting complaints in this monday to friday forum.

Jeez people. Calm down a bit. The reason why he says this (if you actually read through his comments and think a bit) makes a fair amount of sense. This is the main conflict the series has been building to. The all out galactic war where the stakes are highest. If you want to play Mass Effect but would rather not replay the whole series 3 is probably a better spot to jump in than 2.  And second, its a freaking marketing ploy. They need the game to sell well.

You people are so goddamn alarmist.

[Adanu]

I said it before and I'll say it again. Silverman needs to be fired.

As it is, this one person is making me lose respect for Bioware slowly but surely enough to consider not buying any new games from them after ME3.

[didymos1120]

Midnight Reyn wrote...
 Out of context doesn’t mean much when I was using those quotes as a point to say I’m worried about the classification of the game.

You distort his meaning in doing so.  That's dishonest.  It's the sort of crap creationists pull.

Pointing out other segments of the article doesn’t negate the concern I have, nor make it any less valid.

I don't care about your concern or its validity. Feel whatever you wish.  I just don't like quotemining.

Modifié par didymos1120, 09 août 2011 - 04:06 .

[Badpie]

I'm not sure where everyone is getting that I'm "panicking" or "alarmist." I have a valid concern here that I brought to the table in the exact place we're supposed to bring these concerns and discuss them.

As I've said, there are a lot of things Casey Hudson and Mac Walters have said that have made me really excited.

My point, again is that the entire marketing campaign for the game right now is aimed at new players. This makes me concerned that game itself will be aimed directly at new players and to be honest it alienates me as a long time fan. Just because I bought the other games doesn't mean I'm just going to automatically buy the third, especially if I feel like what I want isn't as important as what the new folks want.

I'm not even sure I feel this way, but this article really rubbed me the wrong way.

[didymos1120]

Adanu wrote...

I said it before and I'll say it again. Silverman needs to be fired.

I'm sure he's good at the other aspects of his job (coordinating advertising, organizing events and promotions), but yeah, he's not that great at the chatty part and tends to say some pretty goofy, ill-considered stuff.  Strangely, this seems to be rather common with PR folk.

[HTTP 404]

Midnight Reyn wrote...


I’m aware of what he said. I read the whole article. Out of context doesn’t mean much when I was using those quotes as a point to say I’m worried about the classification of the game.

Pointing out other segments of the article doesn’t negate the concern I have, nor make it any less valid.

It is less valid because there was more discussed than just the things that concerned you.  You are worried about the classification of the game yet omit the parts that have rpg elements? 

[Gorosaur]

Badpie wrote...

My point, again is that the entire marketing campaign for the game right now is aimed at new players.

Youre already a Mass Effect fan, yes? You will most likely buy the game regardless of what is said by the marketing team. Now, new players that dont know anything about Mass Effect? Thats the group that Bioware's team needs to focus on.

[HTTP 404]

Adanu wrote...

I said it before and I'll say it again. Silverman needs to be fired.

As it is, this one person is making me lose respect for Bioware slowly but surely enough to consider not buying any new games from them after ME3.

he's a car salesmen.  They are not supposed to be well liked.  As fans already, of course we dislike him but he isn't selling a product to us, he is selling the product to "others"

If I wanted to be able to sell tons of games, I don't hire a nice guy, I hire a guy like silverman.

[Badpie]

Gorosaur wrote...

Badpie wrote...

My point, again is that the entire marketing campaign for the game right now is aimed at new players.

Youre already a Mass Effect fan, yes? You will most likely buy the game regardless of what is said by the marketing team. Now, new players that dont know anything about Mass Effect? Thats the group that Bioware's team needs to focus on.

This is my point exactly.  It feels like Bioware is saying "we don't need to worry about returning fans. They'll buy it anyway.  We don't need to make them happy.  They'll be happy with whatever we give them."

And that's just not true.

[SilentK]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Mr. Silverman is directing his comments at a very specific consumer, the new guy (or girl), most likely casual shooter fans. He is trying to reassure potential new customers through lies of omission that ME3 is the game for them. That's what marketing is all about. It's lies of omission heightened w/ exaggerated truths. It's also the third game in the trilogy, so of course they are going to say, "it's a great starting point." To do otherwise would be turning away customers.

"It's a new beginning." Yes, it is. It's a new game w/ a new story, but that doesn't mean there won't be carry over from the previous two games if you import an existing Shepard. In fact it's already been confirmed that ME3 will have almost twice as many links back to the previous games than ME2.

"Who cares about romances." To a new player, it doesn't matter much, but both Casey Hudson and Mac Walters have confirmed the romances in ME3. In fact a New Yorker piece on Jennifer Hale confirmed that fact that BW is trying to deepen Shepard's character which will no doubt include romances.

So, yeah, don't worry. If Casey Hudson and Mac Walters start saying this stuff then worry.

I agree, this is aimed at a new player. And it probably will work quite well to jump into ME3 without playing the others before. I started playing ME2 first, got so attached to the story and my FemShep that I bought ME after that and haven't looked back since. Of course you are a little bit confused about some things when playing ME2 the first time but it still a very good story and I think that it worked well. I think that it will work to jump here, they might have the trial as a opportunity to recap the previous events in Shepards life so that the new ones get into the story. I don't know. But if I could get into ME2 I'm sure that new player can get into ME3. They have also said that those that had a previous relationship it will get a conclusion in ME3 and that for new players there will be intros to the LI:s. No worries there. Bioware knows that romances matter. It just doesn't matter to new customers, they haven't had the opportunity to fall head over heels for Tali or Garrus yet so that won't draw them in.


I will actually try to do one FemShep without importing any previous game simply because I want to see what is different in the game when they try to present it to you as a new player, what are the big changes as compared to importing one.

Don't panic     *hands out a towel*   

Modifié par SilentK, 09 août 2011 - 04:22 .

[fortunesque]

Badpie wrote...

Gorosaur wrote...

Badpie wrote...

My point, again is that the entire marketing campaign for the game right now is aimed at new players.

Youre already a Mass Effect fan, yes? You will most likely buy the game regardless of what is said by the marketing team. Now, new players that dont know anything about Mass Effect? Thats the group that Bioware's team needs to focus on.

This is my point exactly.  It feels like Bioware is saying "we don't need to worry about returning fans. They'll buy it anyway.  We don't need to make them happy.  They'll be happy with whatever we give them."

And that's just not true.

This.

The PR and the focus on grabbing new fans with awesomesplosions and whatnot is exactly what made me get ME2 used.

[Errol Dnamyx]

HTTP 404 wrote...
he's a car salesmen.  They are not supposed to be well liked.  As fans already, of course we dislike him but he isn't selling a product to us, he is selling the product to "others"

Wrong.
He has to sell the product to "us" as well, since no one automatically pre ordered ME3 when he/she bought ME2. And he is not good at it, imo.

Modifié par Errol Dnamyx, 09 août 2011 - 04:21 .

[MarauderESP]

littlezack wrote...

strive wrote...

I think it is mostly marketing, but isn't Silverman the same guy who warned us about the fabled "Awesome Button" in DA:2?

Which didn't exist. Which shows you how seriously you should take the stuff he says.

what do u mean...? it exist ...it's called "uninstall" .....
and when u used it something "AWESOME" happened

[tomorrowstation]

Badpie wrote...

Gorosaur wrote...

Badpie wrote...

My point, again is that the entire marketing campaign for the game right now is aimed at new players.

Youre already a Mass Effect fan, yes? You will most likely buy the game regardless of what is said by the marketing team. Now, new players that dont know anything about Mass Effect? Thats the group that Bioware's team needs to focus on.

This is my point exactly.  It feels like Bioware is saying "we don't need to worry about returning fans. They'll buy it anyway.  We don't need to make them happy.  They'll be happy with whatever we give them."

And that's just not true.

Of course "They'll be happy with whatever we give them" just isn't true. Because they didn't say that.

It's not Bioware's job to make you feel happy.

[Midnight Reyn]

didymos1120 wrote...

You distort his meaning in doing so.  That's dishonest.  It's the sort of crap creationists pull.

Pointing out other segments of the article doesn’t negate the concern I have, nor make it any less valid.

I don't care about your concern or its validity. Feel whatever you wish.  I just don't like quotemining.

You're expecting people to quote entireties of articles when responding to a particular statement or sentence that was mentioned that made them pause?

There was no distortion or dishonesty.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree here. 

[HTTP 404]

Errol Dnamyx wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...
he's a car salesmen.  They are not supposed to be well liked.  As fans already, of course we dislike him but he isn't selling a product to us, he is selling the product to "others"

Wrong.
He has to sell the product to "us" as well, since no one automatically pre ordered ME3 when he/she bought ME2. And he is not good at it, imo.

wrong! 

see what I did there... He doesn't have to sell a product to us.  We are already invested in looking into the game where the dev's responses are the ones that have weight for us to decide whether to buy the game or not.  It isn't going to be what Silverman says that persuades me, its devs like Hudson that will.  Silverman is the bait to hook in gamers that know nothing about bioware games.

[geekeffect]

The first Star Wars movie I ever saw was Return of the Jedi. I was really young at the time and I was overwhelmed by the whole experience. So yeah, if I'm allowed to establish the parallel, it was a good entry point into the trilogy. Later on I saw the previous movies and loved them of course, but that doesn't mean I couldn't enjoy Return of the Jedi when I was a kid.
Having said that, of course it's marketing. But that doesn't mean that new players can't enjoy ME3 as a first experience. Maybe they won't enjoy it in the same way those of us who've been playing it from the start will, but that doesn't mean they can't enjoy it as well. And there are many accounts of fans who started with ME2 and then decided to get the first game to experience the whole thing.
So, it all comes down to "whatever works", really. As long as new gamers are enjoying Mass Effect and making the fanbase stronger for the future, it's all good news to me.

[HTTP 404]

Midnight Reyn wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

You distort his meaning in doing so.  That's dishonest.  It's the sort of crap creationists pull.

Pointing out other segments of the article doesn’t negate the concern I have, nor make it any less valid.

I don't care about your concern or its validity. Feel whatever you wish.  I just don't like quotemining.

You're expecting people to quote entireties of articles when responding to a particular statement or sentence that was mentioned that made them pause?

There was no distortion or dishonesty.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree here. 

a half truth is a whole lie

[C9316]

This is why I just consider anything he says as Marketing Bravado, and never take anything he says seriously...