37 réponses à ce sujet

[NoxNoctum]

Alright so I'm at the part right after the "Rescue the Queen" quest where I killed Howe and I was wondering is there any way to get Anora to agree to be queen but not be in charge? I just think she's kinda being ****y and I'd rather have Alistair be a real king instead of some puppet on a string... 

 

[Monica21]

If you're playing a male Warden then you can marry her. If Alistair is hardened then he will agree to marry her.

And she's probably being ****y because she was raised to be Cailan's wife and actually was the real power behind the throne for five years. Difficult to find fault with her fighting for what she already has.

[theskymoves]

No. In fact, unless Alistair is, in Anora's words, "willing to stand back and allow me to continue governing the nation," she will not agree to marry him.

[Monica21]

theskymoves wrote...

No. In fact, unless Alistair is, in Anora's words, "willing to stand back and allow me to continue governing the nation," she will not agree to marry him.

If you've seen the epilogue slide with Anora and a hardened Alistair ruling then you'll know that's not what actually happens.

And that doesn't change the fact that if you declare that they will marry at the Landsmeet then they will marry, whether Alistair agrees to be a puppet or not.

Modifié par Monica21, 09 août 2011 - 03:19 .

[theskymoves]

Monica21 wrote...

theskymoves wrote...

No. In fact, unless Alistair is, in Anora's words, "willing to stand back and allow me to continue governing the nation," she will not agree to marry him.

If you've seen the epilogue slide with Anora and a hardened Alistair ruling then you'll know that's not what actually happens.

And that doesn't change the fact that if you declare that they will marry at the Landsmeet then they will marry, whether Alistair agrees to be a puppy or not.

I know that. The OP asked if Anora would agree to be Alistair's trophy wife, and she won't.

~tsm

Modifié par theskymoves, 09 août 2011 - 03:22 .

[Mike3207]

The closest you'll get is to have a PC Chancellor and a unhardened Alistair married to Anora. I believe Alistair will support the PC's decisions over Anora.

[Last Darkness]

NoxNoctum wrote...

Alright so I'm at the part right after the "Rescue the Queen" quest where I killed Howe and I was wondering is there any way to get Anora to agree to be queen but not be in charge? I just think she's kinda being ****y and I'd rather have Alistair be a real king instead of some puppet on a string... 

 

No

You know Anora has been ruleing Ferelden for many years, and Alistair on the throne is the model puppet king if hes not hardend.

Im particularly a fan of having hardend Alistair marry Anora and spare Loghain and recruit him.

[Jedimaster88]

Last Darkness wrote...

NoxNoctum wrote...

Alright so I'm at the part right after the "Rescue the Queen" quest where I killed Howe and I was wondering is there any way to get Anora to agree to be queen but not be in charge? I just think she's kinda being ****y and I'd rather have Alistair be a real king instead of some puppet on a string... 

 

No

You know Anora has been ruleing Ferelden for many years, and Alistair on the throne is the model puppet king if hes not hardend.

Im particularly a fan of having hardend Alistair marry Anora and spare Loghain and recruit him.

And by doing that, you will doom Alistair to a marriage without happines. Everytime he sees Anora, he sees her father. I wouldnt call that exactly a healthy marriage. Practically he is forced to live in hate and disappointment. DA2 cameo, with Loghain alive, shows that he is not happy with Loghain still living after everything.

Its different if you let Loghain to sacrifise himself, I think. Then Alistair is happy and admits there is some justice in that. All my info and assumptions are based on videos I´ve seen from youtube, not from actual gameplay, because I dont have any desire to spare Loghain, so my info may not be 100% accurate.

As for Anora. She is like her father, believing she is what Ferelden needs and like Loghain, she isnt going to stand aside just like that. If you make alistair a king alone, she shows this by not swearing loyalty to him. She wants to be in charge. As people have said, she can marry Alistair or the warden and rule together, but under any conditions, she will not be a "trophy wife".

Modifié par Jedimaster88, 09 août 2011 - 07:28 .

[Mike3207]

It may not be good for Anora either. She make it clear she views a Cousland marriage as a opportunity, while she feels a marriage to Alistair is a necessary evil to meet her ambitions. If a Cousland asks if it is possible to back out of the marriage after the Landsmeet, she'll say probably not unless you're eaten by the Archdemon.For a lady who doesn't marry if she is a sole ruler, that's a pretty strong statement. Can Alistair and Anora eventually learn to get past his hatred of her father-sure they can. It is an obstacle she won't have to face with a Cousland marriage however.

[NoxNoctum]

theskymoves wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

theskymoves wrote...

No. In fact, unless Alistair is, in Anora's words, "willing to stand back and allow me to continue governing the nation," she will not agree to marry him.

If you've seen the epilogue slide with Anora and a hardened Alistair ruling then you'll know that's not what actually happens.

And that doesn't change the fact that if you declare that they will marry at the Landsmeet then they will marry, whether Alistair agrees to be a puppy or not.

I know that. The OP asked if Anora would agree to be Alistair's trophy wife, and she won't.

~tsm

Not really, but thanks for the replies anyways 

I was more asking if I could avoid having Alistair be some kind of puppet king... I just like his character way more than Anora's, who strikes me as being way too cold and pragmatic... eh. 

I didnt harden Alistair btw... just couldn't bring myself to say the flat out jerky things required .

Unfortunately in the conversations I took the paths that would lead to them ending up together... I regret this now I'd rather Alistair have the throne by himself. I just dislike Anora too much. Can I backtrack at the landsmeet or is it too late?

Modifié par NoxNoctum, 09 août 2011 - 09:37 .

[theskymoves]

Mea culpa, for mis-stating your intent. It was an honest mistake, as wanting Anora to relinquish her power yet still be Queen sure sounds like "trophy wife" to me, but... whatever.

With regard to your new question, if you married them off at the Landsmeet and you intend to keep Alistair alive, the only way to undo it is to backtrack and replay. If you haven't played through the Landsmeet yet, you still don't have to marry them.... I almost always get them to agree to marry (because Alistair and Anora both have some great dialogue that only opens up at that point), but I've only followed through once.

~tsm

Modifié par theskymoves, 09 août 2011 - 10:01 .

[NoxNoctum]

Naw I haven't gotten to the Landsmeet yet, I meant right before the Elven Alienage gets opened up because Anora "suspects something" I sorta did that whole "proxy courtship" deal at Aemon's castle in Denerim where you get both of them to agree (hesistantly) to the "deal".

Regret it now. I've played through like 3 hours worth of Elven Alienage so I'd rather not have to backtrack but I will if I have to. Was hoping I could "back out" though at the actual landsmeet and just support Alistair.

Modifié par NoxNoctum, 09 août 2011 - 10:01 .

[theskymoves]

NoxNoctum wrote...

Naw I haven't gotten to the Landsmeet yet, I meant right before the Elven Alienage gets opened up because Anora "suspects something" I sorta did that whole "proxy courtship" deal at Aemon's castle where you get both of them to agree (hesistantly) to the "deal".

Regret it now. I've played through like 3 hours worth of Elven Alienage so I'd rather not have to backtrack but I will if I have to. Was hoping I could "back out" though at the actual landsmeet and just support Alistair.

See my modified post above. You can do exactly what you hope to.

~tsm

[NoxNoctum]

groovy, thanks

And why the hell is the default profile pic on here a chicken?, too funny to change now 

Modifié par NoxNoctum, 09 août 2011 - 10:06 .

[Monica21]

NoxNoctum wrote...

Naw I haven't gotten to the Landsmeet yet, I meant right before the Elven Alienage gets opened up because Anora "suspects something" I sorta did that whole "proxy courtship" deal at Aemon's castle in Denerim where you get both of them to agree (hesistantly) to the "deal".

Regret it now. I've played through like 3 hours worth of Elven Alienage so I'd rather not have to backtrack but I will if I have to. Was hoping I could "back out" though at the actual landsmeet and just support Alistair.

So, an unhardened Alistair as sole ruler and you don't want him to be a puppet? Have you considered what Eamon's intentions are? 

[Last Darkness]

Jedimaster88 wrote...

And by doing that, you will doom Alistair to a marriage without happines. Everytime he sees Anora, he sees her father. I wouldnt call that exactly a healthy marriage. Practically he is forced to live in hate and disappointment. DA2 cameo, with Loghain alive, shows that he is not happy with Loghain still living after everything.

Its different if you let Loghain to sacrifise himself, I think. Then Alistair is happy and admits there is some justice in that. All my info and assumptions are based on videos I´ve seen from youtube, not from actual gameplay, because I dont have any desire to spare Loghain, so my info may not be 100% accurate.

As for Anora. She is like her father, believing she is what Ferelden needs and like Loghain, she isnt going to stand aside just like that. If you make alistair a king alone, she shows this by not swearing loyalty to him. She wants to be in charge. As people have said, she can marry Alistair or the warden and rule together, but under any conditions, she will not be a "trophy wife".

Its differant if he unhardend/hardend. He knows its a political marriage. There is no love, or happiness about it. If you wanted that then never put Alistair on the throne. He spends the entire game saying how much he dosnt want it. Being free to do what he wants as a grey warden is what he enjoys in life. Anyone who puts him on throne is ignoring his wishes and just furthering their own.

Loghain a Grey Warden, Hardend Alistair married to Anora. Is not the best possible situation but its what I belive to be whats best for the Grey Wardens and Ferelden. You have to make sacrifices for whats best for the people.
Im also partial to Loghain since having read the novels I understand him more, being murdered during the landsmeet in front of his only daughters eyes is not what he deserves. The Death sentance of being a Warden is more then enough and at least he can make amends once he understands what it is to be one.

[Mike3207]

If you're going to do a Alistair-Anora marriage, just make sure Loghain dies either at the Landsmeet or as a Redeemer. I see no good outcome where Alistair is married to Anora and Loghain survives. He makes it clear after you talk to him that he'll do whatever it takes to stop Anora from having her way. I don' think they'll be working together if Loghain survives.

[Last Darkness]

Mike Smith wrote...

If you're going to do a Alistair-Anora marriage, just make sure Loghain dies either at the Landsmeet or as a Redeemer. I see no good outcome where Alistair is married to Anora and Loghain survives. He makes it clear after you talk to him that he'll do whatever it takes to stop Anora from having her way. I don' think they'll be working together if Loghain survives.

Taken from the Games Epilogue below for a Hardened Alistair Marrying Anora and Sparing Logahin (Also doing Doing Dark Ritual)

If hardened, Alistair would spend a great deal of time at court, showing
willingness to learn the art of governing, and ruling fairly (this part
happens if he marries Anora
as well and his willingness to listen surprises her). He would prove
quite popular, with his humor and grace winning them over as much as his
willingness to sneak out of the castle and mingle in the lower-class
taverns.


If Alistair is hardened, Anora weds Alistair and they rule together both
in matters of court and law, and both making personal appearances
together, supervising the reconstruction process, meeting the
enthusiastic approval of the people to the point where it was considered
that the chaos of the civil war and the landsmeet were worth it for
delivering such beloved monarchs.


If Loghain is conscripted but survives the final battle, then he becomes
a major recruiter for the Grey Wardens in Ferelden before getting
reassigned to the Orlesian Grey Wardens in Montsimmard by request of
Weisshaupt Fortress itself. If a hardened Alistair marries Anora, this
is still the outcome.

[Jedimaster88]

Last Darkness wrote...

Jedimaster88 wrote...

And by doing that, you will doom Alistair to a marriage without happines. Everytime he sees Anora, he sees her father. I wouldnt call that exactly a healthy marriage. Practically he is forced to live in hate and disappointment. DA2 cameo, with Loghain alive, shows that he is not happy with Loghain still living after everything.

Its different if you let Loghain to sacrifise himself, I think. Then Alistair is happy and admits there is some justice in that. All my info and assumptions are based on videos I´ve seen from youtube, not from actual gameplay, because I dont have any desire to spare Loghain, so my info may not be 100% accurate.

As for Anora. She is like her father, believing she is what Ferelden needs and like Loghain, she isnt going to stand aside just like that. If you make alistair a king alone, she shows this by not swearing loyalty to him. She wants to be in charge. As people have said, she can marry Alistair or the warden and rule together, but under any conditions, she will not be a "trophy wife".

Its differant if he unhardend/hardend. He knows its a political marriage. There is no love, or happiness about it. If you wanted that then never put Alistair on the throne. He spends the entire game saying how much he dosnt want it. Being free to do what he wants as a grey warden is what he enjoys in life. Anyone who puts him on throne is ignoring his wishes and just furthering their own.

Loghain a Grey Warden, Hardend Alistair married to Anora. Is not the best possible situation but its what I belive to be whats best for the Grey Wardens and Ferelden. You have to make sacrifices for whats best for the people.
Im also partial to Loghain since having read the novels I understand him more, being murdered during the landsmeet in front of his only daughters eyes is not what he deserves. The Death sentance of being a Warden is more then enough and at least he can make amends once he understands what it is to be one.

actually a hardened alistair WANTS to be king. If you ask him: "what should I do?", at the landsmeet, he responds: "make me king, Anora isnt an option.". After the landsmeet he says how being a king was always a chance for him and that maybe there isnt anything to be afraid of.

Hmm Im not sure if making Loghain a grey warden is a good thing for the order, considering what Anders doesn in DA2. He left the wardens to live his own life and to do his own plans. What´s stopping loghain from doing the same if he gets some funny ideas again, especially if he survives the final battle and goes to serve with the ORLESIANS? Everyone has their own opinions about the grey wardens and I´ve never viewed being a warden as a punishment or a death sentence that much if you survive the joining. Heck the wardens can pretty much enjoy the wonders of life even with the taint and everything before they die. The way I see him becoming a warden...yeah he does get away with everything he did. A position in a respected order, he still lives and seems even a bit happy in his awakening cameo, maybe new friends etc. He doesnt seem to care much about losing his title. He and Howe did terrible things together and willingly and they should share the punishment. The warden unites the lands without Loghain and he/she can save Ferelden without Loghain. I want the people of Ferelden to know it was my warden and Alistair who saved it, not loghain.

This is just my opinion, as cold as it may sound.

[Last Darkness]

Jedimaster88 wrote...

actually a hardened alistair WANTS to be king. If you ask him: "what should I do?", at the landsmeet, he responds: "make me king, Anora isnt an option.". After the landsmeet he says how being a king was always a chance for him and that maybe there isnt anything to be afraid of.

Hmm Im not sure if making Loghain a grey warden is a good thing for the order, considering what Anders doesn in DA2. He left the wardens to live his own life and to do his own plans. What´s stopping loghain from doing the same if he gets some funny ideas again, especially if he survives the final battle and goes to serve with the ORLESIANS? Everyone has their own opinions about the grey wardens and I´ve never viewed being a warden as a punishment or a death sentence that much if you survive the joining. Heck the wardens can pretty much enjoy the wonders of life even with the taint and everything before they die. The way I see him becoming a warden...yeah he does get away with everything he did. A position in a respected order, he still lives and seems even a bit happy in his awakening cameo, maybe new friends etc. He doesnt seem to care much about losing his title. He and Howe did terrible things together and willingly and they should share the punishment. The warden unites the lands without Loghain and he/she can save Ferelden without Loghain. I want the people of Ferelden to know it was my warden and Alistair who saved it, not loghain.

This is just my opinion, as cold as it may sound.

You may want to look at the downsides of being a Warden, they are pretty extreme and bleak.
Also you sound like you havent read the novels or even engaged the dialog options with Loghain.
He is a significantly differant character if you have, and ironicaly enough exemplifies and demonstrates the very same behavior Wardens are called to do.

Also everyone did terrible things, The Warden and his party are responisble for some of the worst atrocities in the entire game. The Warden is a mass murderer and there nothing in the game to change that fact no matter what you do. Its a great example of the more realistic grey morality choices. More so depending on your Origin as some are more disatrous then others. (City Elf for example) 

They are called Grey Wardens, not White Wardens for a reason.

Your entitled to your opinion, thats what you think is right and what you yourself want out of your story of course.

[Jedimaster88]

Last Darkness wrote...

Jedimaster88 wrote...

actually a hardened alistair WANTS to be king. If you ask him: "what should I do?", at the landsmeet, he responds: "make me king, Anora isnt an option.". After the landsmeet he says how being a king was always a chance for him and that maybe there isnt anything to be afraid of.

Hmm Im not sure if making Loghain a grey warden is a good thing for the order, considering what Anders doesn in DA2. He left the wardens to live his own life and to do his own plans. What´s stopping loghain from doing the same if he gets some funny ideas again, especially if he survives the final battle and goes to serve with the ORLESIANS? Everyone has their own opinions about the grey wardens and I´ve never viewed being a warden as a punishment or a death sentence that much if you survive the joining. Heck the wardens can pretty much enjoy the wonders of life even with the taint and everything before they die. The way I see him becoming a warden...yeah he does get away with everything he did. A position in a respected order, he still lives and seems even a bit happy in his awakening cameo, maybe new friends etc. He doesnt seem to care much about losing his title. He and Howe did terrible things together and willingly and they should share the punishment. The warden unites the lands without Loghain and he/she can save Ferelden without Loghain. I want the people of Ferelden to know it was my warden and Alistair who saved it, not loghain.

This is just my opinion, as cold as it may sound.

You may want to look at the downsides of being a Warden, they are pretty extreme and bleak.
Also you sound like you havent read the novels or even engaged the dialog options with Loghain.
He is a significantly differant character if you have, and ironicaly enough exemplifies and demonstrates the very same behavior Wardens are called to do.

Also everyone did terrible things, The Warden and his party are responisble for some of the worst atrocities in the entire game. The Warden is a mass murderer and there nothing in the game to change that fact no matter what you do. Its a great example of the more realistic grey morality choices. More so depending on your Origin as some are more disatrous then others. (City Elf for example) 

They are called Grey Wardens, not White Wardens for a reason.

Your entitled to your opinion, thats what you think is right and what you yourself want out of your story of course.

You´re right. I havent read the novels yet. I plan to buy them, once I get to move to my apartment. Who knows what happens after that. Maybe I should try to spare him once. I just havent found enough willpower for that yet. I´ve only watched some of his dialogue from youtube video. My image of the wardens is paint a bit by the things you hear about them and from some of the wardens you meet. Almost everyone of them gave me the sort of "good guy" image, although there are some black sheeps in that group.

[Mike3207]

The problem with a hardened Alistair saying Anora isn't a option- she makes a strong case for retaining her throne, and Alistair makes no case for him taking the throne. To make matters worse, Alistair shows really bad judgement if you decide to spare Loghain, and Anora takes good advantage of it. It may be true that a hardened Alistair makes a good King, but given his judgement at the Landsmeet, he should never get the opportunity.

Alistair's whole case for getting the throne-I'm Maric's son (illegitimate) and we're friends so make me king. Without Eamon's support, it never even gets heard. I really would like to consider Alistair for the throne, but he doesn't give me a legitimate reason to support him.

[Last Darkness]

Jedimaster88 wrote...

You´re right. I havent read the novels yet. I plan to buy them, once I get to move to my apartment. Who knows what happens after that. Maybe I should try to spare him once. I just havent found enough willpower for that yet. I´ve only watched some of his dialogue from youtube video. My image of the wardens is paint a bit by the things you hear about them and from some of the wardens you meet. Almost everyone of them gave me the sort of "good guy" image, although there are some black sheeps in that group.

Read the Novels, it fills in alot of the picture.

The Stolen Throne fills in alot of characters backstorys.

While The Calling does alot of Warden and some mage history.

For Wardens look more to Duncan and Riordan's examples in game, they try to do whats best. Thats not to say whats right.   You will likly love it. Also both are on audio books, Im re-listening to Stolen Throne at work this week myself.

[Last Darkness]

Mike Smith wrote...

The problem with a hardened Alistair saying Anora isn't a option- she makes a strong case for retaining her throne, and Alistair makes no case for him taking the throne. To make matters worse, Alistair shows really bad judgement if you decide to spare Loghain, and Anora takes good advantage of it. It may be true that a hardened Alistair makes a good King, but given his judgement at the Landsmeet, he should never get the opportunity.

Alistair's whole case for getting the throne-I'm Maric's son (illegitimate) and we're friends so make me king. Without Eamon's support, it never even gets heard. I really would like to consider Alistair for the throne, but he doesn't give me a legitimate reason to support him.

Also you know hed lose alot of support if they ever found out his real mothers a Elf.

[Jedimaster88]

Last Darkness wrote...

Jedimaster88 wrote...

You´re right. I havent read the novels yet. I plan to buy them, once I get to move to my apartment. Who knows what happens after that. Maybe I should try to spare him once. I just havent found enough willpower for that yet. I´ve only watched some of his dialogue from youtube video. My image of the wardens is paint a bit by the things you hear about them and from some of the wardens you meet. Almost everyone of them gave me the sort of "good guy" image, although there are some black sheeps in that group.

Read the Novels, it fills in alot of the picture.

The Stolen Throne fills in alot of characters backstorys.

While The Calling does alot of Warden and some mage history.

For Wardens look more to Duncan and Riordan's examples in game, they try to do whats best. Thats not to say whats right.   You will likly love it. Also both are on audio books, Im re-listening to Stolen Throne at work this week myself.

I think I will just settle for the normal novels without audio. Im from Finland so english isnt my mother tongue. I will propably have to use a dictionary from time to time for help.

I usually try to look Duncan as an example. He seems to be the sort of man, who carefully thinks what could be the best course of action. I dont know how he would have handled the choises the warden is forced to make. There have been some discussions and depates about it sometimes. His words about the wardens sound pretty cool. Especially what he says to the casteless dwarve warden at the beginning. "The best of the wardens are ruthless to their enemies, compassionate to their friends and inspiring to their allies." or something like that.

Riordan also has his good words: "Be firm in your beliefs and be as loyal as you can to your brothers even knowing you may share their fate.". Not sure if he said it like that. Its disturbing that if Anora orders Alistairs execution, he doesnt do a single thing to save him. No words, no action, nothing. What was that all talk about loyalty to your brothers just some time ago?

Modifié par Jedimaster88, 11 août 2011 - 06:42 .