245 réponses à ce sujet

[Druss99]

Funkcase wrote...

There is no excuse for this sh"t!

I take it that it was the muggers friends taking the picture? If so then it was pretty stupid of him not covering his face. I'd say he will get what he deserves.

[Therefore_I_Am]

See, being from the U.S. I fully understand my birthcountry being a multicultural society, seeing that is one of it's major characteristics.

But this... THIS... in a beautifully cultural society, in a country with a rich & ancient history like the U.K., this is inexcusable. The country does NOT belong to these ****aroaches, it belongs to You: the people who originated there two millenia before anyone else. It's an utter shame that your governments are letting this happen, and I fully sympathize with those who have lost things in these riots. If the "lower class" feels so unhappy, then why don't they just leave?

Modifié par Therefore_I_Am, 10 août 2011 - 09:23 .

[Wereparrot]

XX55XX wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

XX55XX wrote...

There are deep socio-economic problems that must be solved if these riots are to never happen again. I am afraid that Cameron's fist-pounding demonstrates that he, his government, and society at large doesn't understand why Britain has turned into the dystopian world seen in "A Clockwork Orange."

There is a fascinating article on the New York Times which gives some insight into the minds of these rioters.

The rioters are disillusioned, disenfranchised young people who don't believe they have any future. They sit idly, unemployed, watching the clock tick day by day, subsisting on government handouts and subsidies. It only takes a spark to get them riled up. What the government needs to do now is to show that it cares.

Furthermore, the fact that parents can't exert any control over their children is a demonstration of the decline of morality across all stratas of British society. The MPs lie about their expenses and relations with the media, the police lie about who they arrest and kill, and the disenfranchised poor steal with impunity.

I fear this - this disease of poor morals and impunity may spread to the United States.

I think what your government needs to do is show these cockroaches that they can't continue to steal from the working class and get away with it. These leeches live off of welfare, and now they think they're entitled to more. There is a similar mindset that is growing quickly here in America, fueled by our leaders.

Really? The Republicans here have made the dismantlement of the welfare state a priority. 

This is what the British Tory/Lib Dem government is trying to do, and now the government has cut back the benefits the people on benefits don't like it. The welfare state was nutured by thirteen years of Labour government, so I guess some people will feel aggrieved if their handouts dry up.

[JoeLaTurkey]

I'm typing this from my home (almost 130 miles from where all this crap began). A few blocks away, dozens of riot vans have assembled under threat of full-scale attack from several gangs. I've heard jeers, screams and police sirens for several hours. I'll probably have to stay up all night in the event of it spreading to my street, and I must say - this travesty stopped being about politics and economics a long time ago; it's mere greed and sub-human criminality. Video and audio footage from looters shows most of them don't even know whose in power, let alone any details on their policies.

Take this for example (and many other videos/interviews on this page). These are just stupid, a-political thugs with no cause other than getting a new pair of trainers. It's inexcusable.

All day I've seen police either criticised for being soft or condemned for brutality. They have my deepest sympathy. Powers to use plastic bullets and water cannons should have been granted to them sooner. At least five innocents have died - our focus should be on defending the law-abiding, not trying to make excuses for the lawless. Hundreds, dare I say, thousands of looters and arsonists are children. Where are their parents? It's time to stop blaming for the government for everything and make parents answer for their incompetence.

I'd like to thank the brave men and women in the service who have worked tirelessly in their attempts to quell this circus sideshow - in my hometown and nationwide.

Modifié par JoeLaTurkey, 10 août 2011 - 10:39 .

[XX55XX]

Looks like Iran is calling upon the UN to intervene over "violent suppression" of the "protests".

[JoeLaTurkey]

XX55XX wrote...

Looks like Iran is calling upon the UN to intervene over "violent suppression" of the "protests".

:lol:

I've seen broken toilets with less crap in them than Ahmadinejad's claims!

[KenKenpachi]

Therefore_I_Am wrote...

See, being from the U.S. I fully understand my birthcountry being a multicultural society, seeing that is one of it's major characteristics.

But this... THIS... in a beautifully cultural society, in a country with a rich & ancient history like the U.K., this is inexcusable. The country does NOT belong to these ****aroaches, it belongs to You: the people who originated there two millenia before anyone else. It's an utter shame that your governments are letting this happen, and I fully sympathize with those who have lost things in these riots. If the "lower class" feels so unhappy, then why don't they just leave?

I'm sure the Welsh said the same before the Saxon's landed. Saxon's didn't take kindly to that later on.


As to Iran's remarks. Meh he's doing it as posutring for the Arab States and to a lesser extent the Eastern World, given the biasness of the UN as they see it in favoring the Western Countries after the Fall of the USSR.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 10 août 2011 - 11:07 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

Funkcase wrote...

There is no excuse for this sh"t!

That's absolutely disgusting. It's sickening to see this sort of behavior but what should I expect? Peace? Love for your fellow man? Nay. These "modern" and so called "civilized" times are just as cruel as the times back thousands of years ago. The fact that a human could even wish to do this abomination above - just for lulz or whatever - shows how depraved some humans are. I support police brutality in this case. The thug above deserves to have his ugly face mashed in and kicked. He deserves to be spat on. He's garbage. NAY! Garbage has more worth than him and his friends.

I saw another crime where people were robbing an injured man. Such people deserve death. These same people would rob a dying man. May they rot eternally in Hell.

[vometia]

KenKenpachi wrote...

I'm sure the Welsh said the same before the Saxon's landed. Saxon's didn't take kindly to that later on.

AFAIK it's a bit of a myth that the celts, angles, saxons and so on didn't intermarry; same with the former supposition that no celtic culture survived in England.  I imagine it was pretty much as today, "which bunch of idiots are ruling us now?" type of thing: the ruling classes would come and go but the people remained much the same, though the east coast obviously saw more settlers than elsewhere.

[vometia]

Wereparrot wrote...

This is what the British Tory/Lib Dem government is trying to do, and now the government has cut back the benefits the people on benefits don't like it. The welfare state was nutured by thirteen years of Labour government, so I guess some people will feel aggrieved if their handouts dry up.

The "13 years of Labour" thing is a bit stale: there hasn't been much difference in the past 30-odd years and it's been pretty much a case of "here comes the new boss, same as the old boss".  Things like incapacity benefit were misused for a long time in the 1980s to disguise the unemployment figures, for example.  Anyway, politics etc.

[KenKenpachi]

vometia wrote...

KenKenpachi wrote...

I'm sure the Welsh said the same before the Saxon's landed. Saxon's didn't take kindly to that later on.

AFAIK it's a bit of a myth that the celts, angles, saxons and so on didn't intermarry; same with the former supposition that no celtic culture survived in England.  I imagine it was pretty much as today, "which bunch of idiots are ruling us now?" type of thing: the ruling classes would come and go but the people remained much the same, though the east coast obviously saw more settlers than elsewhere.

Nah I was aiming for the whole "We pushed you back and wiped most of you out, then took to calling you welsh, and Us Britons." Inter-racial mixing is no surprise no matter where the time so long as a war is about, often forced, some times garnerd out of mutial respect.  Though you are somewhat right there, I was just stating, because you were first anywhere don't mean crap if the guy behind you is willing and able to knock you over the head with something and say, "Nah I was." If you can't hold what you have some time someone who doesn't care about your culture or way of life sooner or later will take it. Which is funny to note is how many of the Rioters were of African and Mid-Eastern backgrounds with a view Anglo-saxon anarchist thrown into the mix.

Unlike what the Schools may say. Respect is not a two way street. And you really don't have to respect the opinions of others if your willing and able to take things to the next level so to speak. Law and Democracy only work as long as the people want to fallow it. Its kinda like, well hell this has already gotten political soon as Woo smells it so I'll point it out, but its like in Egypt. Oh sure pro-democracy youths, with there signs and chants brought down the Goverment, but the Army and the Brotherhood are in the drivers seat, with what will be a Secular state coming of it, and even the common people turning on the former "hero's", Brotherhood and the Army pointed out we have more guns, and the will to use them, the people turned tail and backed them.

Ideals and "equality" sound all well and good, but few want to die for them. As the UK showed its so use to its status quo that even now it seems unable to understand what and why. Some people just hate, some want there way reguardless of others. And when they see they can have it, not much will stop them. Thats why I said Earlier it will be neat to see how this event shapes geo-political events, given the UK was in its own words one of the most "stable" multicultural states of Europe.

And its not our ideals and views that left the West in its strong yet now falling state. We were in the Early years able to wage war with orginized groups of men better. Westerners forget this often, non Westerners never do. You can say that current events now are a matter of pay back more so than standing against "great movements".

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 10 août 2011 - 11:48 .

[Homebound]

Our great war is a spiritual war.

[nijnij]

Therefore_I_Am wrote...
 If the "lower class" feels so unhappy, then why don't they just leave?

Likely because they were born there... I live in France and we had similar riots 5 years ago (similar trigger anyway : 2 guys died in police chase, things escalated for 3 weeks), although the London riots seem different in that it sounds like there's more violence aimed at people, while during the French riots, they were mostly targeting cars (well, and cops :s).

Of course, violence is inexcusable, but in order to fight it, you have to understand where it comes from. Many of these people are treated like aliens in their own country. Now, I'm sure they're a minority and their parents are ashamed of them but this kind of thing is happening in our "civilized countries" every once in a while, because we value possessions and success a lot but don't care that much about people, which is a big flaw that we have to do something about if we want to keep claiming we're democracies.

Modifié par nijnij, 11 août 2011 - 12:11 .

[billy the squid]

KenKenpachi wrote...

vometia wrote...

KenKenpachi wrote...

I'm sure the Welsh said the same before the Saxon's landed. Saxon's didn't take kindly to that later on.

AFAIK it's a bit of a myth that the celts, angles, saxons and so on didn't intermarry; same with the former supposition that no celtic culture survived in England.  I imagine it was pretty much as today, "which bunch of idiots are ruling us now?" type of thing: the ruling classes would come and go but the people remained much the same, though the east coast obviously saw more settlers than elsewhere.

...

Ideals and "equality" sound all well and good, but few want to die for them. As the UK showed its so use to its status quo that even now it seems unable to understand what and why. Some people just hate, some want there way reguardless of others. And when they see they can have it, not much will stop them. Thats why I said Earlier it will be neat to see how this event shapes geo-political events, given the UK was in its own words one of the most "stable" multicultural states of Europe.

Multiculturalism is a pipe dream that was pushed by the Labour government before its irresponsible economic policy brought the Uk economy to its knees. It seems to be a legacy that a Labour government tends to leave, it also happened before in the 1970s under Labour.

I agree that a certain level of tolerance is fine, and the duty of the Government is to enfore it, with a stick if necessary. But, what we have had is 12 years of state sponsored multiculturalism where every culture is equally valid and have a positive effect on each other, whilst existing as seperate ideological entities as such radicalism can't be criticised because its racist or xeophobic. Yet, When someone blows up a train or a skin headed thug beats a person to death with a table leg Its a bit late.

Unfortunately people are trible by nature and will inevitably gravitate towards similar cultural groups, making groups subject to an us and them mentality. As to geo political events it will be interesting, but hopefully it will make the government pull the stick out its collective arse and beat the thugs back into line. As I think the whole idea of policing by consent has some major short comings. Namely one shouldn't be afraid to use the stick when the carrot doesn't work.

[Drone696]

billy the squid wrote...
*snip*

Multiculturalism is a pipe dream that was pushed by the Labour government before its irresponsible economic policy brought the Uk economy to its knees. It seems to be a legacy that a Labour government tends to leave, it also happened before in the 1970s under Labour.

I agree that a certain level of tolerance is fine, and the duty of the Government is to enfore it, with a stick if necessary. But, what we have had is 12 years of state sponsored multiculturalism where every culture is equally valid and have a positive effect on each other, whilst existing as seperate ideological entities as such radicalism can't be criticised because its racist or xeophobic. Yet, When someone blows up a train or a skin headed thug beats a person to death with a table leg Its a bit late.

Unfortunately people are trible by nature and will inevitably gravitate towards similar cultural groups, making groups subject to an us and them mentality. As to geo political events it will be interesting, but hopefully it will make the government pull the stick out its collective arse and beat the thugs back into line. As I think the whole idea of policing by consent has some major short comings. Namely one shouldn't be afraid to use the stick when the carrot doesn't work.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!
I take it they were just good enough to do the dirty work for the British Empire.

[Druss99]

nijnij wrote...

Therefore_I_Am wrote...
 If the "lower class" feels so unhappy, then why don't they just leave?

Likely because they were born there... I live in France and we had similar riots 5 years ago (similar trigger anyway : 2 guys died in police chase, things escalated for 3 weeks), although the London riots seem different in that it sounds like there's more violence aimed at people, while during the French riots, they were mostly targeting cars (well, and cops :s).

Of course, violence is inexcusable, but in order to fight it, you have to understand where it comes from. Many of these people are treated like aliens in their own country. Now, I'm sure they're a minority and their parents are ashamed of them but this kind of thing is happening in our "civilized countries" every once in a while, because we value possessions and success a lot but don't care that much about people, which is a big flaw that we have to do something about if we want to keep claiming we're democracies.

Your just making excuses for them. The simple fact of the matter is that the majority of the people doing the looting and rioting have no agenda other than they are thugs who think they will get away with it. People can talk about how these people don't feel like part of society or they feel hard done by. Have they come out and said that? The interviews I've heard involved people saying they were rioting and looting simply because they wanted to. They are simply just scum behaving like scum because no one stopped them.

[slimgrin]

I think its time to start getting medieval with these rioters.

[KenKenpachi]

lol I'll do the job if you don't want to Slim, just pay me, give me one week, and forgive any of my "crimes" with a blanket Pardon.

<< >>

[chunkyman]

slimgrin wrote...

I think its time to start getting medieval with these rioters.

Yes! But I would prefer going a bit closer to now, specifically after the development of the .303 British rifle cartridge. If I were in charge I would declare martial law and have police kill looters on sight, no joke. Nothing stops rioters like live ammunition. Rioting would stop in a day if these punks knew that looting equals death.

[Aeowyn]

Druss99 wrote...

nijnij wrote...

Therefore_I_Am wrote...
 If the "lower class" feels so unhappy, then why don't they just leave?

Likely because they were born there... I live in France and we had similar riots 5 years ago (similar trigger anyway : 2 guys died in police chase, things escalated for 3 weeks), although the London riots seem different in that it sounds like there's more violence aimed at people, while during the French riots, they were mostly targeting cars (well, and cops :s).

Of course, violence is inexcusable, but in order to fight it, you have to understand where it comes from. Many of these people are treated like aliens in their own country. Now, I'm sure they're a minority and their parents are ashamed of them but this kind of thing is happening in our "civilized countries" every once in a while, because we value possessions and success a lot but don't care that much about people, which is a big flaw that we have to do something about if we want to keep claiming we're democracies.

Your just making excuses for them. The simple fact of the matter is that the majority of the people doing the looting and rioting have no agenda other than they are thugs who think they will get away with it. People can talk about how these people don't feel like part of society or they feel hard done by. Have they come out and said that? The interviews I've heard involved people saying they were rioting and looting simply because they wanted to. They are simply just scum behaving like scum because no one stopped them.

You know, this really pissed me off. I saw an interview with a 16 year old, and her excuse was "Dem dun respect us eh." I wonder why.....
They say that there aren't any jobs, but England has training, apprenticeships and support for young people to help them get out on the job market. I moved here from Sweden 2+ years ago, and trust me, the youth unemployement there is far more hopeless than it will ever be here.
No, those people are lazy bastards who do nothing but destroy other people's livelihoods and lives, and their so called "excuses" are pathetic.
It's a lovely bill to add to the already straggling economy.

[nijnij]

@Druss99 I'm not making excuses, as I said, violence is inexcusable, but if you want to fight it, you have to understand where it comes from.

The violence towards people is just wrong and pure douchebaggery. Now the looting is wrong too but it might have something to do with these people being nobody's, with no means to a decent future, and so they feel in order to be somebody in the eyes of their community they need possessions, because all you see on TV and in the street all day is just that, ads for stupid crap. That's all we value, how much one can afford. Of course they're opportunists, but I believe many middle class people would be in other contexts. Now the violence I'm disgusted with. But when it comes to the lootings it's just them being as materialistic as society tells them to be. Unless they're not even keeping the loot but just saying "f*ck" to Armani and co, and if that's the case, I see where they come from. I hope this all stops soon though since ultimately, the answer to such behaviour tends to be more discrimination instead of more understanding, so they're really not helping anything.

Modifié par nijnij, 11 août 2011 - 01:31 .

[billy the squid]

rapunzel696 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...
*snip*

Multiculturalism is a pipe dream that was pushed by the Labour government before its irresponsible economic policy brought the Uk economy to its knees. It seems to be a legacy that a Labour government tends to leave, it also happened before in the 1970s under Labour.

I agree that a certain level of tolerance is fine, and the duty of the Government is to enfore it, with a stick if necessary. But, what we have had is 12 years of state sponsored multiculturalism where every culture is equally valid and have a positive effect on each other, whilst existing as seperate ideological entities as such radicalism can't be criticised because its racist or xeophobic. Yet, When someone blows up a train or a skin headed thug beats a person to death with a table leg Its a bit late.

Unfortunately people are trible by nature and will inevitably gravitate towards similar cultural groups, making groups subject to an us and them mentality. As to geo political events it will be interesting, but hopefully it will make the government pull the stick out its collective arse and beat the thugs back into line. As I think the whole idea of policing by consent has some major short comings. Namely one shouldn't be afraid to use the stick when the carrot doesn't work.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!
I take it they were just good enough to do the dirty work for the British Empire.

You're an idiot.

Read the ideology behind multiculturalism, before commenting on it. It applies to all races and cultures living and influencing one another harmoneously whilst remaining seperate of one another. The aspects of the ideology remain opposites, how does one reconcile segregation and intercultural influnces? Certain styles of society will not be reconcileable and treating all aspects of it as valid within the scope of a single legislative system is impossible.

Or is the right of expression to be overridden by religious radicalism, or maybe white supremacy should be allowed as part of a cultural aspect in parts of society.

Please think before typing, illustrating your ignorace is not something to be proud of.

[slimgrin]

I believe it was Angela Merkel who said multiculturalism has utterly failed. She's not alone in that sentiment.

[billy the squid]

Indeed, David Cameron and Nicholas Sarkozy have also stated this. We will see how things change over time.

[Theironclaw]

It's times like these that make the British National Party seem like a good idea.