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[Wereparrot]

agesilaj12 wrote...

Nobody is rationaluzing thugs and hoodlums, don't see where you got that.

But they are trying to look for excuses in the name of social inequality.

The real reason the riots happened has nothing to do with social injustice and everything to do with the erosion of traditional values and disrespect for life, property and authority, which is largely the shameful legacy of previous governments. In the face of liberalism people have become arrogant and selfish. The 'I love me' generation led to believe that their criminality is the result of racism or economic depravation.  

[Aeowyn]

Druss99 wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

Ulous wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...


“I think that the welfare state and socialism has more to do with why these leeches feel so entitled. They've lived on welfare their whole lives and now that the checks are drying up somewhat, they're angry that they might actually have to work for a change. So they take their anger out on "the rich", by which they mean of course the middle class. And interestingly enough, if you want to talk about race the fact is that there are very few Muslims among the rioters. Many Muslims are business owners and are trying to defend their livelihoods. And they're not rich by any means, they barely break even. These rioters are being pushed from behind by white communist bums. As for how to solve it, I think getting their heads bashed in by police batons would solve the problem.

Firstly where does the incentive to work come from? First let us take your average single man who get s a job minimum wage, after income tax he will pick up around £170.00p.

Your nice list stopped right there.  £170 for a man working full-time on minimum wage? Please....

That is around the right number. Depends on hours, tax and national insurance payments but it ends up around there. I worked for minimum wage in a job last year and got around £170 on the weeks there was enough work to do full time hours.

Oh so it's per week? Well then it makes sense.

[slimgrin]

I may come across as a lout for saying this, but in one of the live riot vids, I swear there were female officers in riot gear getting into the fray.

Is this true? If so, those are some brave ladies.

Modifié par slimgrin, 12 août 2011 - 04:07 .

[Druss99]

slimgrin wrote...

I may come across as a lout for saying this, but in one of the live riot vids, I swear there were female officers in riot gear getting into the fray.

Is this true? If so, those are some brave ladies.

Equal opportunities. Why deny someone the opportunity to club a scumbag simply because she is a woman?

[slimgrin]

Druss99 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

I may come across as a lout for saying this, but in one of the live riot vids, I swear there were female officers in riot gear getting into the fray.

Is this true? If so, those are some brave ladies.

Equal opportunities. Why deny someone the opportunity to club a scumbag simply because she is a woman?

I wouldn't want to, but the physcial reality is still there. A woman isn't as imposing or as strong as a man, and in a riot atmosphere, physicality seems important to me. 

[Druss99]

slimgrin wrote...

Druss99 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

I may come across as a lout for saying this, but in one of the live riot vids, I swear there were female officers in riot gear getting into the fray.

Is this true? If so, those are some brave ladies.

Equal opportunities. Why deny someone the opportunity to club a scumbag simply because she is a woman?

I wouldn't want to, but the physcial reality is still there. A woman isn't as imposing or as strong as a man, and in a riot atmosphere, physicality seems important to me. 

I was mostly joking. I do see your point but I like to assume they go through alot of training for it and if they hadn't proven they were up to the task then they wouldn't be thrown in there. Although it does make me wonder how they train them for the physicality and chaos of an actual riot. I'd guess they would be deployed with enough other riot police that it would make their physicality less of a problem.

[Ulous]

Wereparrot wrote...

agesilaj12 wrote...

Nobody is rationaluzing thugs and hoodlums, don't see where you got that.

But they are trying to look for excuses in the name of social inequality.

The real reason the riots happened has nothing to do with social injustice and everything to do with the erosion of traditional values and disrespect for life, property and authority, which is largely the shameful legacy of previous governments. In the face of liberalism people have become arrogant and selfish. The 'I love me' generation led to believe that their criminality is the result of racism or economic depravation.  

Not so much an excuse for it but basically explaining that much worse things go on, the government and those that are considered higher up in society need to lead by example, they can not say violence solves nothing while causing over a million deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan, they can not say do not steal and leech from the taxpayer when the banks are doing so, they can not say do not destroy peoples homes when the banks lost many people their homes and sent baliffs to confiscate their possesions.

Also do not get trapped in the previous government stuff, it is all about the banks who have basically had control for over a hundred years, so called democracy just allows us to chose a new CEO of what is basically the same corporation and even then it is just a two party dictatorship.

Also like many others you are using the word liberalism, it is just political labeling that means nothing in the bigger picture of things, just because someone wants equality it does not mean they are liberal, communist, socialist or any other kind or political alignment, they are just decent people that want some fairness in this world and see the true injustices these constructed society's throw at us.

"When a government is dependent upon bankers for money,
they and not the leaders of the government
control the situation,
since the hand that gives
is above the hand that takes.

Money has no motherland;
financiers are without without decency;
their sole object is gain."

Napoleon Bonaparte

Modifié par Ulous, 12 août 2011 - 06:47 .

[Wereparrot]

Ulous wrote...

Wereparrot wrote...

agesilaj12 wrote...

Nobody is rationaluzing thugs and hoodlums, don't see where you got that.

But they are trying to look for excuses in the name of social inequality.

The real reason the riots happened has nothing to do with social injustice and everything to do with the erosion of traditional values and disrespect for life, property and authority, which is largely the shameful legacy of previous governments. In the face of liberalism people have become arrogant and selfish. The 'I love me' generation led to believe that their criminality is the result of racism or economic depravation.  

Not so much an excuse for it but basically explaining that much worse things go on, the government and those that are considered higher up in society need to lead by example, they can not say violence solves nothing while causing over a million deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan, they can not say do not steal and leech from the taxpayer when the banks are doing so, they can not say do not destroy peoples homes when the banks lost many people their homes and sent baliffs to confiscate their possesions.

Also do not get trapped in the previous government stuff, it is all about the banks who have basically had control for over a hundred years, so called democracy just allows us to chose a new CEO of what is basically the same corporation and even then it is just a two party dictatorship.

You don't see political parties rioting in the street on election day do you though? There is a big difference between war and rioting: war is a legitimate business regardless of the legality of any given war.

I said 'previous governments' because I'm not including the current one, which actually seems to be trying to do something about this sorry situation. While it's true we need someone to curtail the influence of the banks, I don't think this will happen short of bringing back the monarchy, which is an idea that's not entirely alien to me; and even though the banks are corrupt and greedy, it isn't wise for the government to tax only the banks; everyone must pay their part. So: part of the unfair cycle that democracy has got itself into.
  

Also like many others you are using the word liberalism, it is just political labeling that means nothing in the bigger picture of things, just because someone wants equality it does not mean they are liberal, communist, socialist or any other kind or political alignment, they are just decent people that want some fairness in this world and see the true injustices these constructed society's throw at us.

I'm not saying that if someone wants equality they are neccessarily a liberal, but it's true that the liberal Left is bleating on about social inequality; while the Right, while not actually denying that social inequality might exist, refutes that violence born of said social inequality is somehow acceptable, even excusable. But since many rioters weren't even poor or otherwise deprived then the reasonings of the Left do ring a little hollow, even should they have a point about some of the rioters being poor. 

Modifié par Wereparrot, 12 août 2011 - 07:50 .

[Ulous]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

Did things finally calm down yet?

Yeah it has calmed down now, I honestly don't think it will start back up soon, but in the coming years it is more than possible.

[Ulous]

Wereparrot wrote...

Stuff

I think we could debate things until the cows come home but I guess the Bioware social isn't the best place for that, but much respect to you for at least having some intelect and not bashing your club on the floor screaming "shoot da bastards" like many are doing.

[slimgrin]

Well, I'm saying shoot the bastards with rubber bullets...poor disenfranchised youth with their black berries and and Molotov cocktails..get to feeling kinda sorry for them. If only their mothers loved them.

Incidentally, I don't get sh*t from my govt. because I came from a lower-middle class, white family. Hardly anything in education benefits, nothing in tax benefits, no food stamps cause I work. Nothing whatsoever. These ****** don't know how good they have it.

Modifié par slimgrin, 12 août 2011 - 09:22 .

[Ulous]

slimgrin wrote...


Incidentally, I don't get sh*t from my govt.

Ditto, although they do get a lot off me....... i.e. over 60% of my wages in taxes.

[slimgrin]

Ditto nuthin. You get a lot of that back.

[Funkcase]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

Did things finally calm down yet?

Yes and no.

Yes, it;s not as bad, I haven't heard about looitng the past two days, but I have heard about some idiots trying to cause fires, and giving police grief. But nothing serious for now, thankfully.

Sadly 5 people were murdered in this senseless violence.

[Funkcase]

slimgrin wrote...

Druss99 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

I may come across as a lout for saying this, but in one of the live riot vids, I swear there were female officers in riot gear getting into the fray.

Is this true? If so, those are some brave ladies.

Equal opportunities. Why deny someone the opportunity to club a scumbag simply because she is a woman?

I wouldn't want to, but the physcial reality is still there. A woman isn't as imposing or as strong as a man, and in a riot atmosphere, physicality seems important to me. 

I heard the police in the UK are now looking for female police officers to recruit more than men. Britian has a very large muslim community, and men aren't allowed to search muslim women, so we need female police officers more.

Modifié par Funkcase, 12 août 2011 - 10:25 .

[Romantiq]

roflcoptorz. That lil girl in yellow jacket looks excited.



PS: noo they messed up my img.

Modifié par Romantiq, 12 août 2011 - 11:38 .

[slimgrin]

Lol, what do you Brits get for student loans? What do you get for health care?

I get virtually nothing. Too white, and too rich ( + $20,000 a year is rich now in the U.S.)

I have a $3000 deductible. Do you have to pay $3000 before benefits kick in? And 'benefits' are just 60% total cost. Nothing is fully covered. Nothing. If I go to the doctor, the eye doctor, the dentist, I pay every f*cking single time. And I pay with every single check I get from my job.

Maybe I should start taking a baseball bat to the local stores because I'm so repressed...

Modifié par slimgrin, 13 août 2011 - 12:04 .

[Ulous]

slimgrin wrote...

Lol, what do you Brits get for student loans? What do you get for health care?

I get virtually nothing. Too white, and too rich ( + $20,000 a year is rich now in the U.S.)

I have a $3000 deductible. Do you have to pay $3000 before benefits kick in? And 'benefits' are just 60% total cost. Nothing is fully covered. Nothing. If I go to the doctor, the eye doctor, the dentist, I pay every f*cking single time. And I pay with every single check I get from my job.

Maybe I should start taking a baseball bat to the local stores because I'm so repressed...

I think you believe we get more benefits than we actually do, yes we get health care but it is not free by any stretch of the imagination, we pay for it in our taxes and obviously some of us claim on it more than others, I for one have cost our health service hardly anything, mainly because I keep myself fit and refrain from drinking, smoking and taking drugs, with that said the service that we do get offered can often be sub-par and below the level of even countries like Cuba. Like you I also have to pay optical and dental treatment as it is not free here unless you are unemployed, but as mentioned earlier their is little incentive for people to work if they are going to only earn minimum wage.

As I have said before Welfare pays the bare minimum and includes a house, medicine, cheap food and clothes at a stretch. The minimum wage, especially for younger people does not come close to covering these essential things.

Outside of the state, these things are available freely, perhaps not in the same quality, but with such abundance that you would never miss the state. At the same time the state does its best to ensure that there are vast numbers of people willing to work under almost any conditions, and the main way this has been done for the past century or so is to ensure that there are significant numbers of people to fill the shoes of those who refuse to work under bad conditions.

Just as vodafone, eon and virgin airways determine the contracts when you buy a service from them, it is the worker who should determine the contract when service is bought from them. This, to the large corporations is seen as some kind of communist statement. Far from being communist, it is anti-fascist, being opposed to the situation where corporations dictate the terms and  conditions no matter which side of the service desk they are sitting on.

Modifié par Ulous, 13 août 2011 - 05:45 .

[slimgrin]

Sorry if I offended...went a little off the rails there.

[stewie1974]

Ulous wrote...


Outside of the state, these things are available freely, perhaps not in the same quality, but with such abundance that you would never miss the state.

What? Freely? What?, Um... example of free healthcare , housing etc outside of government programmes plz

Modifié par stewie1974, 13 août 2011 - 01:23 .

[Ulous]

Oh and the plot thickens, our Conservative Prime Minister supported by his Liberal deputy (yes you read that right) have appointed Bill Bratton to sort out the ill's of our police force, much to the anger of the Police and their superiors.

Just like I said, an illusion of democracy led by politicians who will turn on the police as quick as they will the rest of us, maybe if the police had cost the economy 150 billion like the bankers did, then they may have had a big pay rise and a free house and car each for their efforts.

Modifié par Ulous, 13 août 2011 - 09:16 .

[slimgrin]

Your police force hasn't exactly contained the problem.

[Get Magna Carter]

(with apologies to anyone who lost homes, friends, family, livelihood, etc in the riots)
I have one wild theory
..that the riots may have been partially caused by videogames
(but only partially ...it's not an excuse)
In Europe the main videogame releases are at Christmas and Easter
July and August have virtually no new game releases
consequently Zumba fitness has topped the UK charts for what feels like an eternity
Is it any wonder that British youth are not staying home and playing games (like they should) but instead are out on the streets rioting
Maybe if games releases were more balanced throughout the year the riots wouldn't have been so bad
...but then again..that might have just caused looters to raid the game shops...

[Sundance31us]

Get Magna Carter wrote...
*Snip*

Historically it doesn't work rioting happened prior to the induction of video games.