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The English riots


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#201
Ryllen Laerth Kriel

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stewie1974 wrote...


All a gun ensures is gun crimes... and the usa has the highest incidents of it.







That's odd, my mother has survived two armed home invasions by robbers in the nearly thirty years she's lived in her house. The robber didn't retreat till she yelled "I have a gun and I will shoot you" both times. Firearms can be a great equalizer, they are a neutral tool that can be used for good or evil and banning them seems to only ensure that the criminals have them, not the good people trying to protect themselves. Image IPB

#202
Mercannis

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ragemaster wrote...

some sources call it the uk riots but scotland hasnt had any riots at all the scottish prime minister requested it be renamed the english riots.

p.s whenever andy murray is winning at tennis he is british but when hes losing hes scottish england sucks or wut



Yes but the point is, the Irish and Welsh are also included in the all encompassing term "United Kingdom". Our Scottish First Minister not to be confused with the Prime Minister of Britain is a total and utter smeghead. (Im trying to cut down on my swearing so bear with me on terminology)

There is also no need for bringing up stuff about sports either that has been happening for years in Formula 1, football etc etc. Europe sees our island as the UK, on paper we are British citizens, the Queen is half Scottish its not so simple as saying we are Scottish screw them har har.

Economically speaking we cant survive without England anymore Labour saw to that over the last 20 odd years.
Take a trip to Fraserburgh or Aberdeen go down to the docks and look at the fishing boats that are decaying. Blair sold the rights to the EU allowing Norway and Spain to fish off the coast of Scotland while Scottish fishermen have went bust. Although this is also only on the surface,  if you dig deeper you will find out that the Scottish Fishermen received thousands of euros to keep their boats grounded.

So our country has a failing economy with little to no foreign investment from large companies and no thriving industries, its a wonder there arent riots here.

#203
KenKenpachi

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Speaking of silly political matters, I just read a very, very, stupid opinion peice on the Guardian news site. Some wack jobs think the riots were allowed to go on as long as they did or were started by the government, so that the Prime Minister can use it as a reasson to crack down on the poor.

That goes hand in hand with what some US sites were running back in Katrina saying the US Government has a weather Control machine and sent it (Katrina) to NO to get rifd of the black people.

How do stupid people get into high positions...

#204
LTD

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Using harsh and cruel methods (tear gas, beating **** of out people, rubber bullets, national guard..) to contain and end an already ongoing riot makes good amount of sense. Ridiculously cruel rulings of court afterwards is rather harsh and stupid. Does putting someone in prison for half a year for stealing water bottles help keepig him and his friends on right track? Earlier today, I read how some lass got 5 months of prison for accepting pair of looted jeans from her friend? The ****?

Imagine being unenployed, pissed off Brit and hearing your legal system/government pulling off such unjust BS. " They put brother in jail for stealing few water bottles while white collar criminals and Tony Blar herp derp!!" If I were in that situation,surely my sense of alienation and desire to wreck some havoc to society that seems to be out there for those richer than me would only increase.

#205
KenKenpachi

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Hmm it works on the principle of Fear. Want to take that water bottle, fine go ahead, I'll throw you in jail for the next 20 years. Want to do drugs, I'll shoot you. People think twice afterwards. Though being thrown into prison over a water bottle is stupid, same punishment for the rampent looting and property destruction is a good reason. Just smack them on the hand and say,"Oh you poor dear bugger off now, be good." Will ensure that it happens again. However at the same time, too much punishment is equally bad. Or to quote Star Wars. "The more you tighten your Grip, the more Star Systems will slip through your Fingers" Too lax, you get anarchy, too heavy handed, rebelion.

As to the being in possion of stolen goods, thats part of English Law. Even the US does it. Say your in a car and your friend jumps out, parks and comes back with a bag out ofa bank. If your still in that car, when he enters, or when he's taken in, your considerd just as responsible, and thrown in jail. This is done mainly to discourage harboring and aiding a fugitive, while at the same time promoting Citizens Arrest. Is it right or wrong, thats a good question to ask.

As to white collar, heh you can be more criminal than the Mob if you have a name tag, or a political desk job, and get away with it. As China says and is pretty much true globally, Power beats law, Money beats law, connections beats law.

As an example I was called a couple years ago when NC had its senate ellections. Of the two canidates you had a woman and a man. The names escape me at this momment, but the poller got around to telling me about eachs murky actions.

The man, used eminent domain to seize a 70 year old womans home and land to build a BUS STOP, that is the least used, he has used his position on the city counsel to push out his compititors and to conrtol 50% of the City's contracts in terms of maintance, land scaping, etc. He's also had a contract, charged twice what it was worth, then didn't finish it, costing the city more money to get it finished.

The Woman, was connected to an embezalment of well several hundred thousand dollors, from the previous senator, spent millions on an observator out of the state budget, on a state way the hell away from ours, Issued sub standard body armor to the NC National guard, which has lead to higher fatalities. And was responsible for the freeing of 2000 criminals, 200 of which were of the likes of cop killers and serial rapists. (Mainly black and before the election in a heavly minority state, make of that what you will)

Then the poller asked me who I would trust, I blurted out "Why arn't these two in prision? You expect me to vote for either? Why don't I just let the inmates out to run the show, they already are."

Then you have "Legal loans" My step dad for example, took out a loan for about 27 thousand from a financer to help him finish paying for his home, the company then without telling him or, giving him an option, sold it to another company who refuses to budge off of it, a company based in India should I note, that will end up taking him 20 years, 10 now to pay off, and will cost him nearly triple the amount in the long run. Or how about me looking into starting my own company/place of work. A 200k loan at 20 years, with only 4% IR will not only get that 200k out of me, but another $250k on top of that. Even the mob is more fair than that. All the want is what they gave you plus 20-50% of that amount. And at the end of the day, you don't pay the bank or Government they take whatever they want. The mob just breaks your knees. As to the "Billions" In government grants state side. Sure they'll help you, if your a minority, female, and want to be a farmer or in a non-profit job.

Short of that and not a surprise to me guess what elese is on the list, Large buisness groups, and townships among others. So grant money set aside maily goes to campaign finacers, or back into government coffers. What goes to minorities given the two options, helps make sure they stay where they are.


As to the whole economic investment. The fatal flaw of capitilism, is growth is not endless, money and investment can't appear by magic. There are limits, and in the case of the UK, it doesn't help matters that the EU Allows tens of thousands of Eastern European migrants into the region where they will work for much less than and Englishman. Also the tav system in europe disscourages most employers from hiring young workers, or many workers period.

Funny thing is in the US short of a repeal, and what states have turned there nose up to the mandate via there own courts, many work places have started hiring less and only part time given the Obamacare reform. Which makes an employer responsible to provide health insurance for any full time worker AND thier family. The reform if it can even be called that just makes you buy health insurance or you get into trouble. Most people don't have the insurance as they can't buy it. Making them isn't helping.

In fact given most US hospitals are privatly ran, owned, and operate via shareholders prices vary widely, and THAT is the problem not the bloody insurance. 500 bucks to have an x-ray, 5-10 thousnd to have a kid? And most Insurance groups don't even help all that well. Like my step dad as an example once more works for the state, has Blue cross Blue shield, its conisderd one of the best options by far. Minus it doesn't pay ****. Good for perscriptions, but he has to pay 50% of the doctors visit. And when it comes to operations and the like, they won't pay for crap untill he pays 20% on it. But no one will crack down on those two given the millions thrown into campaigne contributions. The situation if much the same elsewhere from what I hear in the democratic nations.

Given all the above and more, as pretty much every modern "Leader" has a shady past and current dealings, is it a surprise China is set to outpace the West? And dispite the corruption they have, at least they DO manage to get around to shooting a few of them,

Rather than keep them in power for the next 20 years. In short the law and system is what people Let it be, and you can't just make money from nothing. And most people with money want more, not less, and won't help you get a job when they can hire someone else to do it for half so they get a bigger bottom line. Those that will hire and pay well, fire few.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 16 août 2011 - 02:03 .


#206
Therefore_I_Am

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You English need more Zaeed Massani's amongst your mist...

#207
stewie1974

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Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

stewie1974 wrote...


All a gun ensures is gun crimes... and the usa has the highest incidents of it.







That's odd, my mother has survived two armed home invasions by robbers in the nearly thirty years she's lived in her house. The robber didn't retreat till she yelled "I have a gun and I will shoot you" both times. Firearms can be a great equalizer, they are a neutral tool that can be used for good or evil and banning them seems to only ensure that the criminals have them, not the good people trying to protect themselves. Image IPB


The USA does have the highest rate of gun crimes, accidental shootings.

I don't see how that's "odd" that's a fact regardless of your mother surviving two home invasions. Perhaps she should move to a better neighbourhood.

#208
Ulous

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Isnt it funny how social networks are the darling of the arab spring yet are faced with censorship in the uk for their part in the riots. Twitter especially gained massive free advertising in the msm for their part in helping those in the arab countries overthrow their governments.Here in the uk, its blackberry that is getting all the attention, only its bad attention. There is talk of blackberry having to hand over the master key so security services can access its closed network messaging system.

Facebook has also come in for critisism, with them being told that they could face being closed down in the uk during outbreaks of civil disorder if it does not monitor more closely what is being said on its network.

On the other hand, twitter is being potrayed by the msm as the network that united the people with its clean up campaigns. So blackberry and facebook are bad.Twitter is very good.

Yet how many of those involved actually had blackberry phones? How many involved actually had a twitter or facebook account?

Edit: I think more people had a Blackberry phones after the riots to be honest :D

Modifié par Ulous, 16 août 2011 - 06:39 .


#209
Saaziel

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These aren't riots , they're an economic stimulus.

If windows are broken , cars destroyed "Et cetera" , you need to go out and clean the debris , repair the damage done , buy new policies , new cars , new doors , sent out investigators , prosecute and so on and so forth.

Look at all that employment & economic activity created! Its a brilliant idea by the Brits and one would hope be implemented elsewhere in the western world.

#210
KenKenpachi

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stewie1974 wrote...

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

stewie1974 wrote...


All a gun ensures is gun crimes... and the usa has the highest incidents of it.







That's odd, my mother has survived two armed home invasions by robbers in the nearly thirty years she's lived in her house. The robber didn't retreat till she yelled "I have a gun and I will shoot you" both times. Firearms can be a great equalizer, they are a neutral tool that can be used for good or evil and banning them seems to only ensure that the criminals have them, not the good people trying to protect themselves. Image IPB


The USA does have the highest rate of gun crimes, accidental shootings.

I don't see how that's "odd" that's a fact regardless of your mother surviving two home invasions. Perhaps she should move to a better neighbourhood.



Maybe you should give her the money to do so? I've seen and read countless cases of a gun saving someone from a wild animal, rape, robbery, and good ole fashion lynching.  Course such stories never make it into the media with its own agenda. Reguardless guns have proven very useeful in crime control, and unlike hollywood pop culture, the wild west where pretty much everyone and his brother was straped actully had a lower crime rate than today. More so its ironic that anti gun states and cities have the highest crime rates, and those that envolve weapons are 98% of the time unregister handguns. Or other illegal weaponary. Assault Rifles, Long guns, and shotguns are rarely used in a crime, and most often registerd lawfully owned fire arms never are. Minus in crimes of passion as some say, such as killing your spouse for cheating on you.

Personally I'll tell you up front if you live in my area, you own a gun, or know how to fight. Or you'll be someones **** as the cops WILL not help you. Cause if a rattlesnake don't get yah, a MS-13 member just might try. And its not a matter of just "Moving" Over a 100 mile radius I see the same crap, and in fact the more gun tight communities funny enough have far higher than average crime rates.

For instance from 1 to 100 all of the cities around me score 2-4 points (rate of crime lower number score is worse.). And average 10 crimes per 100 people. All of those townships have strict gun codes. And it spills over into the countryside, in fact I have two instances where a gun has helped cease trouble, a thrid when the threat was enough, and a few more with a melee weapon. And if over a 100+ mile radious its all like this, pray tell, where the **** to I go?

My area used to be plauged with MS-13 wanna be's. One of them was beating my nephew down while two more watched. I went out, shot right past them with a handgun to break it up to which one was like "Man **** him he ain't gonna shoot us!" To which I shot the ground right at his feet an told him "Try me." They no longer come anywhere near this area. I had problem later on with bloods attempting to move into the area, and even a crip, either by showing force and that I clearly knew how and would use it, or the threat of it, stoped those situations quickly. And there are a number of times I've had to pull a knife or as of late a ballbat given how bat**** nuts some folks seem to be. Its funny how when faced with opposition that can murder or maim how fast even the largest of numbers welt away.

As to any going, why ken why don't you call the cops. Once More calling on my stepdad, he used to be responsible for the security at a high school. Anyhow, there were hickups with the alarm systems. It went off oh I figure 20 times. The security company would call the police, the police us. We both are the same distance from the location. We always beat the cops by 15-30 mins. If someone was ever in there, we would either have done killed them, or them us. Not too mention pretty much a good majority of the law enforcement in this and the surrounding region are corrupt enough that its not odd to see the SBI or FBI looking in on them. If the system is against you, or too slow/incompetant, to be of help you only have what you can do to help you. And as I've been told by them numerous times. Our Job is not to protect you. So much for serve and protect.

As to moving...heh yeah right. You want to live some place nice in the states you better make 6 figures a year. Like Wilmington, not far from me, pretty place low crime. But its 900 bucks a month rent cheapest, and very strict. Most elderly live on a modest budget, or in the case of my area, it wasn't trash. Trash moved in. Honestly the only justice here seems to mostly come from vigilanty groups. Though most of this seems to steam from entitlement and the fact now a-days you don't have to much worry about who you try to rob or threaten having the means to end you. Even over minor crap.


EDIT

And Ulous. whats funny is in how many of those spring revolt states how the people have pushed the teens aside and embraced hardline Islamist Rule, such as Egypt. As to the rest, I always said "Oh sure our governments praise it, but when push comes to shove will act the same way."

Edit 2 and to the above. A very ****** poor one if so. All of that stuff is bought on the tax payers time, and in the case of shop owners insurance doesn't cover you in full. So if losing money and going more into debt is making it (Which DC seems to think lulz) then I guess it is.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 16 août 2011 - 07:14 .


#211
legion999

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KenKenpachi wrote...

Speaking of silly political matters, I just read a very, very, stupid opinion peice on the Guardian news site. Some wack jobs think the riots were allowed to go on as long as they did or were started by the government, so that the Prime Minister can use it as a reasson to crack down on the poor.

That goes hand in hand with what some US sites were running back in Katrina saying the US Government has a weather Control machine and sent it (Katrina) to NO to get rifd of the black people.

How do stupid people get into high positions...


Because other stupid people help them.

#212
Addai

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Ulous wrote...
Edit: I think more people had a Blackberry phones after the riots to be honest :D

Heh.  How'd you like to be tech support for calls trying to set up accounts?

#213
Ulous

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Lol @ Boris getting a roasting.

www.youtube.com/watch

#214
chunkyman

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KenKenpachi wrote...


My area used to be plauged with MS-13 wanna be's. One of them was beating my nephew down while two more watched. I went out, shot right past them with a handgun to break it up to which one was like "Man **** him he ain't gonna shoot us!" To which I shot the ground right at his feet an told him "Try me." They no longer come anywhere near this area. 



You my friend deserve one of these. :police:

Image IPB

#215
Ulous

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I'm not going to give my two pence on what I think of guns, but one thing I know for sure is that like many things they only exist because someone is making profit from them.

While humans are busy shooting and killing each other these super rich dealers of death are sat in their ivory towers laughing their asses off.

#216
KenKenpachi

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lol yes I'm sure an AK dealer is laughing in Africa while sitting on his vast earnings for each of his $100 Mosin Nagant Rifls, or $75-200 AK-47's. Though technically the largest Arms Traders are also the leading members of the United Nations, SC. Go figure. Besides if the aim was to sell weapons, to kill and maim others, your doing a bad job. Something like 200 million weapons in the hands of nearly 100 million people, in America alone, globally your looking at billions of firearms. So some of us clearly are not doing our murdering as the good lord intended. A gun is like a hammer. Give it to a moron don't be surprised if he smashes your windows or fine china plates.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 16 août 2011 - 07:52 .


#217
Ulous

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KenKenpachi wrote...

Besides if the aim was to sell weapons, to kill and maim others, your doing a bad job.


I agree, the aim is to sell weapons for money/profit, i'm pretty sure that if no one was making money from them then they would not be made, like many things in life...... cigarettes and alcohol to name a few.


The basic formula of profit is Scarcity + Problems = Profit, the level of scarcity combined with the severity of the problem they are trying to treat increases the value, guns treat (only treat not cure) the problem of protecting people from other people with guns, the scarcity of the materials used and/or the scarcity of the model of gun increase and decreases it's value, hence as you said AK's are dirt cheap in comparison to more advanced arms.

The obvious side effect of the above profit making formula and many others is that when you need scarcity and/or a problem to create profit, then corporations will create a problem or not allow the problem to be cured and will use whatever means they can to achieve this goal (and in fairness usually within the law, which in some cases are laws they helped to create). On the scarcity side of things you find corporations deliberatly making things scarce, oil and diamonds to name a few.

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together
in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal
system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."

Modifié par Ulous, 16 août 2011 - 08:09 .


#218
KenKenpachi

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Hmm mainly right, minus that the AK is as wide spread (Well over 200 million) was of a political nature. The USSR never made any profit off of the small arms it would litterally hand out for free across the world. And that only applies to market economics, I'm sure during WW2 the US pushed out alot of Shermans for after sale margines. It goes to show how far the market has corrupted the system, and humanity. As to problems....heh. Your thinking too much into this. People are people.

We each have things we like to do in a way, think and feel about in a way. Even if from the same culture, I can bet you if I placed a lose Cali girl, in a room with a strict mormon, a west coast blood, and a East coast Crip, even with no weapons, they would kill each other before a week had passed. Same if you put an Irish, Welsh, Scotsman, and an Englishman in the same room. People resort to violence reguardless if a weapon is on hand or not. I prefer to have something to defend myself and not need it. Than need it and not have it. And you never can be sure, when your group/region/race/age/religion/class/etc, will be the new target of a random act of greed or political motivation. Even people in the same family can and often do fight, be it words, fists, even further.


People have personalities, and some personalities don't mesh well, at times to the extent of physical violence being the result. But as you noted, society makes the laws, laws don't make the society. In fact people should be happy the world is peaceful as it is currently.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 16 août 2011 - 08:22 .


#219
Warheadz

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Image IPB

Made me chuckle.

#220
KenKenpachi

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lol that is a rather nice comic

#221
Volus Warlord

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Golden comic, sir. Golden comic.

#222
Han Shot First

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I applaud the harsh sentencing of anyone apprehended for particpating in the riots, regardless of how small the crime. The UK is doing the right thing by making an example of them.

The riots go well beyond just mere 'protest' or public disorder. Considering all the harm they've done to their nation I don't think it would be off target to call their actions treasonous, even if it doesn't fit the legal definition of treason in the UK. I wouldn't waste any tears on the fool who will be doing 6 months of hard time for stealing a few bottles of water. He deserves every day of that sentence and should fall down on his knees and thank the nation for not lopping off his thieving hands.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 17 août 2011 - 01:12 .


#223
Ulous

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Han Shot First wrote...

I applaud the harsh sentencing of anyone apprehended for particpating in the riots, regardless of how small the crime. The UK is doing the right thing by making an example of them.

The riots go well beyond just mere 'protest' or public disorder. Considering all the harm they've done to their nation I don't think it would be off target to call their actions treasonous, even if it doesn't fit the legal definition of treason in the UK. I wouldn't waste any tears on the fool who will be doing 6 months of hard time for stealing a few bottles of water. He deserves every day of that sentence and should fall down on his knees and thank the nation for not lopping off his thieving hands.



Yes they have done harm, but look at how many businesses will profit from this? It is similar to a war, in that there is always going to be someone profting from it.

And yes you are right they do not fit the legal definition for treason, but I can tell you one fact for sure, that our governments over the last few hundred years are more than guilty of treason, but who is going to put them on trial? Nobody! because they have the supreme power and can get away with whatever they want.

#224
Agamo45

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LTD wrote...

Using harsh and cruel methods (tear gas, beating **** of out people, rubber bullets, national guard..) to contain and end an already ongoing riot makes good amount of sense. Ridiculously cruel rulings of court afterwards is rather harsh and stupid. Does putting someone in prison for half a year for stealing water bottles help keepig him and his friends on right track? Earlier today, I read how some lass got 5 months of prison for accepting pair of looted jeans from her friend? The ****?

Imagine being unenployed, pissed off Brit and hearing your legal system/government pulling off such unjust BS. " They put brother in jail for stealing few water bottles while white collar criminals and Tony Blar herp derp!!" If I were in that situation,surely my sense of alienation and desire to wreck some havoc to society that seems to be out there for those richer than me would only increase.

These bums are rioting because they've been coddled their entire lives by their government and by society. They need to get their asses kicked, and then thrown in jail. The shopowners deserve justice.

#225
Ulous

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I try to refrain from reading the majority of newspapers but this morning after having a quick look through one of my workmates papers from a few days ago I see that Wayne Rooney and Rio Ferdinand have joined the fray, telling our youth how they should and shouldn't behave.

We have Wayne Rooney who thinks it is okay to pay for sex with granny's behind his girlfriends back and act like a thug on the football pitch, then we have Rio Ferdinand a serial adulterer who cares so much about his wife and kids that he will **** anything with a pulse.

Yes what fine upstanding members of society they are, but yes they are looked up to! Why you ask? Well because they have fast cars, big houses and **** loads of money and this is what is hammered into our children and society, that you are only someone of worth in this country if you have lots of money and possesions, so is it a surprise when people go looting?

P.S. I hear that our politicians expenses bill is going to exceed a billion this year and we are only two thirds of the way through.

Modifié par Ulous, 17 août 2011 - 05:58 .