59 réponses à ce sujet

[AVPen]

lightsnow13 wrote...

However, there is some hope. James Vega is their male character who has personality - his look alone has personality. I would want him to be strong and determined. They said his character would be a new soldier who likes to fight. That does have me a little concerned. I don't really want a human Krogan. I hope they add depth to him as well.

I don't want a Human Krogan either.... I want my Perfect Krogan back instead. 

[ChaplainTappman]

AVPen wrote...
I don't want a Human Krogan either.... I want my Perfect Krogan back instead. 

Grunt is the Velveeta cheese of krogan. I'll take the real thing any day.

[Wynne]

ChaplainTappman wrote...

I never liked the Garrus romance. It just seems forced to me, like Bioware said "well, we're making Tali romanceable, screw it let's add Garrus in there too."

Also, re: Jack pushing FemShep away, it's disappointing but it also fits her character. She doesn't see any reason for anyone to want to talk to her other than sex, and she doesn't want to have sex with a female Shepard. What's more, she doesn't really want to talk to anyone; note that the entire conversation arc between Jack and a BroShep romancing her consists basically of her pushing him away.

I'd love to be able to have more conversation options and deeper nonromantic relationships with everyone. I think ME1 did the best at that, with every squadmate being engaging to a certain extent regardless of gender or romantic interest. Kaidan wasn't bland, just reserved. They kind of lost it in ME2, but I feel like that's due to having, frankly, too many squadmates. It seems the Dunbar number is much lower when we're talking about fictional people. That said, I wouldn't expect vastly expanded friendships in ME3. I just don't think it's practical, nor is it a reasonable expectation. The fact is, creating those conversations costs time and money, and I think it's a safe bet that the vast majority of players would never see that content. I think most people (and I'm guilty of this myself) tend to only interact with whichever character they're romancing.

I'll still never understand the rationale behind making two out of three romances for a female Shepard into booty calls, and two out of three romances for a male Shepard actually romantic. Hell, even Miranda's was more romantic than the Jacob/Garrus stuff in ways. I would've thought more women would want romance than booty, and more men would want booty than romance. Maybe that's just me being a raging sexist, but it still seems disproportionate to me.

It's true about Jack, but I didn't want my first FemShep to just let her be that way. I kept wanting to prod her, like, "Come on, don't let her push you away just because you don't have a sausage! She needs a friend whether she likes it or not."

I definitely don't stick to the character I'm romancing, though. I always talked things out with most of the team. It just feels nicer to me that Shepard knows them, and I really liked most of the characters.

ChaplainTappman wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Naah.
That's just some male gamers "threathened" by another human character
that could be a better then them so they will ridiculue everything
Carth/Kaidan/Jacob/Vega say lol

Haha. That said, Kaidan
ending what felt like every conversation with "I don't want to sound
like a whiner" kind of made him sound like a whiner.

Yeah, it really did. *lol* I wished he would've been a bit less defensive; it would've made him come off a bit stronger. He was too mild. Maybe that will be different in ME3.

I agree with IsaacShep--some guys just can't take a human male. It's a shame, but I'm hoping Vega will be the one who's well-written enough to make even those guys grudgingly like him.

[Wolverfrog]

Really good read, I agree with most of your points.

[ChaplainTappman]

Wynne wrote...
I'll still never understand the rationale behind making two out of three romances for a female Shepard into booty calls, and two out of three romances for a male Shepard actually romantic. Hell, even Miranda's was more romantic than the Jacob/Garrus stuff in ways. I would've thought more women would want romance than booty, and more men would want booty than romance. Maybe that's just me being a raging sexist, but it still seems disproportionate to me.

It's true about Jack, but I didn't want my first FemShep to just let her be that way. I kept wanting to prod her, like, "Come on, don't let her push you away just because you don't have a sausage! She needs a friend whether she likes it or not."

I definitely don't stick to the character I'm romancing, though. I always talked things out with most of the team. It just feels nicer to me that Shepard knows them, and I really liked most of the characters.

The generous answer is that Bioware knows/believes that most people play FemShep as a Renegade who would be less interested in a genuine romance, and more interested in just getting some. At any rate, the Garrus romance comes across like that to me. The less charitable answer is that Bioware knew the vast majority of people play as BroShep, and put less effort into the LIs for FemShep.

Yeah, it really did. *lol* I wished he would've been a bit less defensive; it would've made him come off a bit stronger. He was too mild. Maybe that will be different in ME3.

I agree with IsaacShep--some guys just can't take a human male. It's a shame, but I'm hoping Vega will be the one who's well-written enough to make even those guys grudgingly like him.

Ideally both of those cases will come to pass in ME3. I'm not so sure that guys "can't take" a strong human male. I think it's more that people assume they can't, and don't even bother trying. Hopefully Vega will live up to his appearance, because I suspect most guys are like me: I don't really care. I've been friends with plenty of guys who were stronger/harder than myself, physically or personality-wise. It never bothered me, never affected my self-worth.

[Deviija]

Seeing the title of this topic had me on edge, but the actual content of the opening post went in a (pleasingly) different direction than I initially expected. So kudos for the read and the topic. I do agree with many of the outlined issues and points brought up with male leads -- but I think it is solely related to the Mass Effect series rather than all BioWare games. (Anders, Alistair, Sky, Anomen, whether you loved them or hated them, they did have more relevant purpose and background than the leading human males in the ME series, imo.)

Which is unfortunate. I had high hopes for Jacob. And I wanted to like Kaiden, but I didn't feel like there was much traction to his character, or much spotlight given to him to shine. It seems like there is this odd barrier where the human male leads are written to straddle the inoffensive/not going to challenge your alpha dominance bro mold for (straight) male gamers, yet also have to be written to try and show themselves as available as romance options for FemSheps. The problem is that the former takes precedence, or so it seems like to me. Thus, we get the 'good bro that doesn't buck the trend or questions your authority or gets out of line; he's just a decent normal guy' thing. Which, in a world of assassins, lesbian space-vampires, genetically perfect clone women, galaxy most wanted biotic criminals, and the like... it just shines through a 'dull' rather than 'a good guy' by comparison. It's just... there.

[ChaplainTappman]

Deviija wrote...


Seeing the title of this topic had me on edge, but the actual content of the opening post went in a (pleasingly) different direction than I initially expected. So kudos for the read and the topic. I do agree with many of the outlined issues and points brought up with male leads -- but I think it is solely related to the Mass Effect series rather than all BioWare games. (Anders, Alistair, Sky, Anomen, whether you loved them or hated them, they did have more relevant purpose and background than the leading human males in the ME series, imo.)

Which is unfortunate. I had high hopes for Jacob. And I wanted to like Kaiden, but I didn't feel like there was much traction to his character, or much spotlight given to him to shine. It seems like there is this odd barrier where the human male leads are written to straddle the inoffensive/not going to challenge your alpha dominance bro mold for (straight) male gamers, yet also have to be written to try and show themselves as available as romance options for FemSheps. The problem is that the former takes precedence, or so it seems like to me. Thus, we get the 'good bro that doesn't buck the trend or questions your authority or gets out of line; he's just a decent normal guy' thing. Which, in a world of assassins, lesbian space-vampires, genetically perfect clone women, galaxy most wanted biotic criminals, and the like... it just shines through a 'dull' rather than 'a good guy' by comparison. It's just... there.

That's a good point I hadn't considered. "Ordinary guy" is pretty much always going to come across as a little boring by comparison.

[Wynne]

ChaplainTappman wrote...

Ideally both of those cases will come to pass in ME3. I'm not so sure that guys "can't take" a strong human male. I think it's more that people assume they can't, and don't even bother trying. Hopefully Vega will live up to his appearance, because I suspect most guys are like me: I don't really care. I've been friends with plenty of guys who were stronger/harder than myself, physically or personality-wise. It never bothered me, never affected my self-worth.

Hey now, I said "some guys" and not merely "guys", and I said it that way for a reason. I wasn't thinking of all guys, and I specified that. I'm far more used to mature male gamers, actually. (Mature in personality, not necessarily age, though my dad is a gamer, too.) I was simply acknowledging that type exists.

Deviija wrote...


It seems like there is this odd
barrier where the human male leads are written to straddle the
inoffensive/not going to challenge your alpha dominance bro mold for
(straight) male gamers, yet also have to be written to try and show
themselves as available as romance options for FemSheps. The problem is
that the former takes precedence, or so it seems like to me. Thus, we
get the 'good bro that doesn't buck the trend or questions your
authority or gets out of line; he's just a decent normal guy' thing.
Which, in a world of assassins, lesbian space-vampires, genetically
perfect clone women, galaxy most wanted biotic criminals, and the
like... it just shines through a 'dull' rather than 'a good guy' by
comparison. It's just... there.

I agree wholeheartedly. I tried to like Kaidan and Jacob, but they were just--as you say--there. The ME universe is so exotic and detailed; in comparison with Thane, humans that don't have strong personalities can get lost.

I'm worried Vega will fit that category, as he's basically a walking, "previously, on Mass Effect!" from the sound of it. I'm sure they added more to his character than just that, but I hope it adds up to enough or we're going to have Kaidan & Jacob all over again, with Kaidan actually there the whole time as well.

ChaplainTappman wrote...
That's a good point I hadn't
considered. "Ordinary guy" is pretty much always going to come across as
a little boring by comparison.

That's not necessarily always the case, though. Joker is the most romanceable character in the ME universe as far as I'm concerned, even though he's not romanceable.

An ordinary guy doesn't have to be boring. I think a great sense of humor is one of the most important things for a lead male henchman/LI for a female. It's very sexy, but at the same time it's an ideal environment for fostering bro-hood. Perfect.

[Homebound]

i disagree. changing the characters to what YOU like is undermining the characters.

[ChaplainTappman]

Finished ME1 with my most recent FemShep. I'm going to try talking to everyone this time around, specifically Jacob, who I'l going to use in my squad throughout. We'll see how this goes. Specifically, we'll see if I accidentally end up romancing anyone.