214 réponses à ce sujet

[Aradace]

The Dev/Writers can push "tragedy" all they want. I kinda like a little tragedy to be quite honest and DA2's story didnt seem as "tragic" to me as it did other people. *Shrugs* There's reasons for that I guess but that's neither here nor there. The only thing I ask, is that we dont have a DA game that ends like God of War III where the main character kills himself.

"Sacraficing" oneself ala US in Origins is one thing. But outright suicide, that's a no-go for me because only a weakling kills themselves IMO. It takes a far stronger person to take what life throws at them, and plodding on, than it does to say "Oh woe is me..." and ace themselves lol. So yea, no Kratos endings in DA please? *sad puppy dog eyes"

[macrocarl]

I haven't read the entire thread, but I do want to say that 'Game of Thrones' fatigued that crap out of me by mid-way 3rd book. I quit the series. Felt like whatever small thing any of the likable characters were doing were eclipsed by the horrible outcomes that befell them. Another example is that Bjork movie, 'Dancer In The Dark'. That one started to make me laugh at how sad it was supposed to be. By the end when she hangs herself I felt relieved. It had moved into farce. I really felt like the director was beating the sad horse to death.
DA2, while not as punishing as the above, had me wonder a lot during game play if I had made some really tragic mistake earlier and I was seeing the outcome, or if Hawke was just fated to be a punching bag shaped super hero. I seriously thought I did something 'wrong' my first play through.
One instance is when you meet Gascard DuPuis. You either kill him or let him lead you to where you end up finding Hawke's mom Frankensteined out of dead cougars.
Later you can find him in Darktown where he can then either be executed or be allowed to leave (if he is allowed to leave, Rivalry Isabela: rivalry (+10), if he is killed Friendship Isabela: friendship (+10) ). If allowed to leave, he will send you a letter and package at the beginning of Act 3 stating that he has given up magic. <-- partly frankensteined from the wiki

So you can get revenge or if you show mercy a possible LI gives you a -10 Friendship but then Gascard turns over a new leaf. So either murder-vengeance-time for the horror he was part of or mercy and he becomes a normal citizen.
Hey, I'm all for stabbing, but man, your mom just died, people are all kinds of pissed at you and turning into steaming crazy people piles every where you look and now this. I kept waiting for a cinematic where Bjork's legs drop from the ceiling and start a hang man's dance behind Hawke's head.

I actually loved DA2 and have played it more times than any other video game I ever played. Having said that, I'd really like to have the tragic elements more spread out moving forward.

[Addai]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...
All in all, Dragon Age II was grim dark with an idiot plot. If anyone, even Hawke, took two seconds to think things through, even if it still resulted in tragedy, it would have been better. Instead, players are left wanting the character to do things infinitely more sensible than the three idiotic options presented. I think a huge problem is that Dragon Age II was never really about roleplaying or the characters. It was about the endgame. The ending of this game was so huge to the setting of Thedas that player choice had to be severely limited, or else it might never have happened. Unfortunately, Hawke comes out of it looking like a dunce.

I could QFT your whole post.  Well said, ser.

[Xilizhra]

Strangely, I may have been able to get past more of the tragedy than some others. In part, it's because I felt connected to my party, and they all had lives in Kirkwall. In part, it's because I didn't consider the ending depressing; I felt inspired. The templars could be defied after all, plenty of the Circle survived, and I at least kept my companions alive.

I admit, I did find Orsino's death to be rather tragic, especially the moment where his eyes close before reopening as milky and undead. The whole scene was quite a moving sacrifice, really... it's just unfortunate that he failed to control it.

[TEWR]

Aradace wrote...

The Dev/Writers can push "tragedy" all they want. I kinda like a little tragedy to be quite honest and DA2's story didnt seem as "tragic" to me as it did other people. *Shrugs* There's reasons for that I guess but that's neither here nor there. The only thing I ask, is that we dont have a DA game that ends like God of War III where the main character kills himself.

"Sacraficing" oneself ala US in Origins is one thing. But outright suicide, that's a no-go for me because only a weakling kills themselves IMO. It takes a far stronger person to take what life throws at them, and plodding on, than it does to say "Oh woe is me..." and ace themselves lol. So yea, no Kratos endings in DA please? *sad puppy dog eyes"

I thought God of War III handled Kratos' ending very well. He had absolutely nothing else to live for. His entire family was taken away from him by the gods (brother, mother, wife, and child through deceit), and what laid inside him was meant for humanity, not the gods. By killing himself, he made the ultimate sacrifice for humanity. That took guts (which he spilled ). Kratos is a sympathetic antihero, and his actions made me respect him even more than I already did.

While he had nothing else to live for as I said, it wasn't the only reason he killed himself. Vengeance drove him to do everything he did, and with his vengeance no longer needing to be fulfilled, he could finally forgive himself for what he did to his wife and child, along with failing his brother, and accept the death that he had been avoiding for so long (he had been to hell and back a lot)

Plus, there was a blood trail leading off the cliff at the end, with an image of a phoenix on the area where he stabbed himself. And I remember a dev quote saying that they were thinking about having Kratos take on the Norse gods after God of War III, though I'm pretty sure they didn't follow through on that idea.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 12 août 2011 - 09:39 .

[Xilizhra]

Ugh. I hate Kratos and find him to be the second most evil character in the series after Ares. Zeus wasn't really responsible for his own evil, and the Titans had some legitimate grievances against the gods (and the gods likewise against the Titans). Kratos, however, is selfish beyond belief and addicted to mass murder.

[TEWR]

Mass murderer? He's killing hordes of undead, satyrs, Cyclops, Gorgons, harpies, Centaurs, etc.

The only time I've seen him actively kill people was in God of War II because he wanted Sparta to be known throughout the world. And I admit, that was the act of a mass murderer.

[Xilizhra]

You seem to be forgetting everything he did serving Ares, of which he feels no remorse other than killing his own wife and child (who, in this time, might be considered more or less property in any case). He's quick to kill innocents to replenish his health meter whenever they show up, and also kills plenty of people to solve puzzles even when one of the monster hordes would do.

And then, the only monster hordes we can be pretty sure are actually evil are Ares' mooks. The ones on the Isle of Creation and Mt. Olympus are just doing their jobs as protectors.

[TEWR]

hmmm.... true. I haven't played the original God of War or the prequels for a while.

As for the humans that he can kill to replenish health, you don't have to kill them (though their running around like idiots in front of Kratos made it hard to not kill them)

And as for the puzzles, IIRC certain puzzles required human sacrifices. Not much else he could do. He can't just say "Welp, I don't wanna kill this guy. I'll go back home now"

[Xilizhra]

Why not just grab and undead legionnaire and plunk it in front of the flamethrowers? Why not grab one of those huge stone hammers and wedge it in the gear?

[EmperorSahlertz]

Kratos isn't supposed to appear as the good guy, he is an anti-hero, a force of vengeance. You didn't pick up a game called "God of War" and expected to be a nice guy, did you?

(Note: I hate Kratos with every fibre of my being, but that is mostly because of the atrocity God of War is, to the greek mythology)

[Xilizhra]

I didn't pick it up at all, I watched it on YouTube.

What are the biggest atrocities to Greek mythology that God of War leads to? I'm presumably not as up on it as you (unless you mean Kratos killing everyone).

[EmperorSahlertz]

Kratos himself is the very worst...Other than that, the way the gods act (though that is, badly, explained by Pandora's box), the way each and every mythological creature is treated, the way the titans are depicted. Basically everything... Oh, and I found the game too excessively violent, even for my taste.

[Xilizhra]

The Titans being giant rock monsters instead of basically just older gods?

Though I thought that the gods were quite frequently dicks, and the only one who did anything abnormally bad was Zeus.

[TobiTobsen]

Of course they are dicks. They are the greek pantheon. Being a moody ****** ist part of the job description.

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 12 août 2011 - 11:04 .

[TEWR]

The gods were the ones who required the sacrifice. For Kratos to move forward he had to sacrifice a human (though the God of War wiki on the sacrificed soldier says in the PAL version Kratos sacrifices an undead legionnaire instead). Angering the gods wasn't on Kratos' agenda then.

[Xilizhra]

What about jamming Poseidon's Princess in that giant gear?

Or, for that matter, his whole revenge quest past GoW1 in the first place...

[EmperorSahlertz]

They were. They were also benevolent though. It varies from myth to myth. They were never outright evil, as GoW depicts Ares for instance. Nor were they subject to the contents of Pandora's box quite the same way as mortals. They were the creators of such feelings.

It is quite simply, an atrocity towards greek mythology. Nice gameplay though.... And it never tried to depict the Greek mythology truthfully, so I guess I shouldn't have convinced myself of that when I picked up the game.

[Xilizhra]

True. I was a tad surprised to read about how protective Ares was of his children, something that may be somewhat lacking in many of the other gods.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 12 août 2011 - 11:10 .

[Nerevar-as]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

They were. They were also benevolent though. It varies from myth to myth. They were never outright evil, as GoW depicts Ares for instance. Nor were they subject to the contents of Pandora's box quite the same way as mortals. They were the creators of such feelings.

It is quite simply, an atrocity towards greek mythology. Nice gameplay though.... And it never tried to depict the Greek mythology truthfully, so I guess I shouldn't have convinced myself of that when I picked up the game.

Ares was usually quite the jerk, and he couldn´t be that good at his job if Athena also was Godess of War. I find more annoying Hades as the big bad. Besides Persephone´s abduction he seemed one of the most benevolent of the pantheon.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Ares was the god of war and battle, Athena was the goddess of war and strategy. Ares was bloodlust, while Athena was cunning. That is the major difference between the two.

Hades was most certainly never a big baddie, and was never depicted as one in Greek mythology. He was a warden of the dead, and took care of the deads' souls. He was feared merely because of his asociation with death, he wasn't considered evil though, merely inevitable.

[Xilizhra]

Actually, Hades came off pretty well in GoW, I thought. His motivation for hating Kratos was that Kratos killed his niece, brother and wife; he never did anything that was actually bad.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Well yeah, but it still doesn't fit Greek mythology Hades of the mythology would simply have Kratos drop dead on the ground, and then torture his soul for eternity for his crimes to the gods...

[TEWR]

I'd say that for the series having taken liberties with the mythos (which should've been expected by people since games and movies rarely stay true to what they're based off of), they did quite well at the parts that they stayed true towards.

And as far as I can recall, though the gods did create the evils of Pandora's box (which in a sense they still did in the series, since in the series it was the Titanomachy that created them), nothing in the Greek mythos really said they were immune to it.

Though my Greek mythos knowledge is rusty, as I haven't read up on for a few years at best.

I like to see the opening of Pandora's box in the series as not only infecting the gods, but also infecting humanity.

The series is one of my favorite series of video games. While it didn't stay true to form entirely, this was something I expected.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 12 août 2011 - 11:28 .

[dragonflight288]

Pandora was made to be the perfect wife to one of the Titans in honor of his service to Zeus. Hera was jealous of her beauty and so when Pandora was gifted with many things, Hera gifted her with curiosity. Hera's son Hephastus made for Pandora a box of the greatest beauty and rich jewels of the earth. Hephastus, under orders from Hera, filled it with all the evils of the world and told her she could do whatever she liked with the box, but under no circumstances open it.

However, the curiosity gifted to Pandora would not let her leave the box be, and so eventually she did open it, and only managed to close it in time to keep the last evil from getting out. Because of this, mankind may still feel hope in a bleak and troubled world.

....what? I like mythology of any kind.