214 réponses à ce sujet

[NinaDA]

I just wanted to say thank you, OP, for making my day. I had tears (of laughter) streaming down my face as I read your post, because I did play through DA2 thinking "FFS, what now?" more often than not, given the blitz of tragedies thrown your way. Not to say I wasn't moved by some of them, but there did come a point where all I wanted to do is pack up my belongings and run for the hills. The Long Road stood out for me as a great quest, because by the Maker, did I ever need some comic relief by that point.

[Joulurotta]

On my first playthrough i got shocked when bethany died and started wonder what i did wrong or did i miss something important and actully quited game before that clip went through and were so relived about that autosave that were just after i spoke to Bartrand in hightown and went deep roads again allmost licking every wall and not running at all so i could spot everything i would have missed, runned that place about 6 times before i got so frustated about Bethany to get killed everytime no matter what i did to fall so low to head in wiki to check what i missed.. cant say i were very happy to find out that i loose Bethany no matter what i did.. leaved Bethany to kirkwall and when i came back templars taked her away and it were more than little anoying that i couldnt open war against templars right there.. ended up running deep roads one more time whit anders so Bethany atleast would get "happy" place whit wardens... end of act 2 i got pretty sorry i picked that choise when saw her again whit wardens in kirkwall and she were cold as stone to me, i wonder did she ever think how much work i putted to her to keep her alive? but got bit happier in end of act 3 when she came back whit that lovely statement "I'm not a Grey Warden I'm your sister". All thou it would have been bit nicer if their mom would been alive still... i guess you cant get everything eh?

Modifié par Joulurotta, 17 août 2011 - 09:00 .

[Icy Magebane]

Xewaka wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

Satyricon331 wrote...
I think these things are partly why I dislike replaying the game - it's very bleak and hopeless.  I don't have much of a stomach for such things and DA2 was definitely pushing my limits.

This, even though I've played through this game about 5 times... Leandra's death always bothers me.  The rest, I'm desensitized to, even if it is very depressing.

First thing that came into my mind in that scene was "bride of Frankenstein spoof" and it lost any impact it could have.

This is a pretty old response, but dude... your character's mother was decapitated and sewn onto a freaking necromancer's wet dream... honestly, I see that as disturbing, and even trying to view that as a spoof won't help.   I hate that damn quest and I just can't get over it.

Thankfully, you can skip all the dialogue during the quest, so I only had to talk to mommy once... still, it's a damn shame that you can't solve this one... whatever...

[Prince_12]

Icy Magebane wrote...
This is a pretty old response, but dude... your character's mother was decapitated and sewn onto a freaking necromancer's wet dream... honestly, I see that as disturbing, and even trying to view that as a spoof won't help.   I hate that damn quest and I just can't get over it.

Thankfully, you can skip all the dialogue during the quest, so I only had to talk to mommy once... still, it's a damn shame that you can't solve this one... whatever...

While I don't particurarly hate that quest, she should have just said nothing instead of saying "I'm proud of you". That would have made it better IMO.

[coldlogic82]

Wow, I've never seen a thread go this long and stay this civil. Bravo bio-buddies! Anyway, I'm really glad I made this post because a lot of what you guys have said I hadn't even given thought. How tragedy is used, how much there should be, etc, really insightful stuff. I just made the list because on my second play I was like, hm, this is... really actually pretty depressing. That being said, I did still like the game, and I do like dark stories, and I think tragedy can be effective. What occurs to me when I think of video game tragedy, and what I believe to be one of the biggest turning points in the evolution of the video game is actually from one of the most influential, if not greatest games ever made, Final Fantasy VII. I remember when Aeris died just not being able to accept it. The "emotional investment" I'd made in that character (and in fiction, whether movie, video game, or book we do emotionally invest ourselves) made that scene overwhelmingly powerful. But in line with what many of you have said, that tragedy served a purpose on so many levels. It affected all the characters, it deepened the need to beat the villain, it you hate the villain, etc.

What I think makes the tragedy in DA 2 a bit harder to swallow is that a lot of it is "pointless." Not in terms of storyline, but in terms of emotional investment, meaning of the sacrifice, etc. Hawke's mother dying didn't make you hate Meredith more, or Orsino more. Maybe it made you hate mages in general a little bit more, or maybe fear them a bit more, but it wasn't tangible, and it wasn't necessary.

Also, someone else mentioned King Lear, which is by far my favorite shakespeare play, even though it's a tragedy. But I saw the actual King Lear with Lawrence Olivier playing the main role, and that really is something to behold. But the tragedy there, once again, was all purposed. I think if the tragic moments were perhaps a little less frequent and a bit more "purposed" the game wouldn't seem so bleak. I could take it in DA:O when my hero sacrificed himself, because it was remarkably noble, and it was required for how I was playing the game (I just didn't trust Morrigan with a god-baby, seeing as the only way to make her not sociopathic is to romance here).

So, to sum up, nice discussion, and I'd be more okay with the tragedy if the tragedy served more tangible purpose in terms of plot and/or character development. And also, I did like the game. It was just... darker than the original witcher, and that took prozac too.

[jamesp81]

Some tragedy is OK if the good guys still win.

Lord of the Rings was just such a tale. Yes, the hobbits came back to the shire to find it under siege. A bad situation, but one they were able to deal with and fix, in time at least.

DA2 is extremely tragic with no fulfilling / happy ending. It gets a little bit of a pass because it's not the final game of the series, though. Kind of like how The Empire Strikes Back didn't resolve anything.

[Darkrider296]

TobiTobsen wrote...

Vrex_12 wrote...

And this is exactly why I think DA2 was a great game. No other game has shown this much emotion, and I almost cried in a few moments when a friend of mine played some sad music at the same time. One reason why I love BW<3

Meh... after playing DA2 for the first time I was more like "There is a point when it's just to much".

It becomes kind of dull, if you ask me. Nothing good happens to Hawke. Just bad stuff. I wrote somewhere that it seemed like Hawke was carrying a "kick me" sign around and the fate was happy to oblige. If something good happend ("yay, you're rich now!") it was always coupled with something bad that outweighed it ("but your brother/sister is dead/a warden/a templar/dragged to the circle").

I missed the feeling that I accomplished something. All I had at the end of the game was the fact that my Hawke lost his whole family, wasn't able to stop the war that now will engulf Thedas, was abandoned by his friends, had to go into hiding and then disappeared anyway and all he got was the title "Champion of Kirkwall" that doesn't really meant anything.

I'm not really into Downer Endings, but I can appreciate them. DA2 was just one giant "kick him, while he is down" scenario and just a little bit to "low" even for my "low fantasy" taste.

Come on you can't  honestly want only good things to happen. I mean having tragedy in a story only makes it better while at least in my opinion it does. Its supposed to show that despite how rich and powerful you become bad things can still happen to them. Plus Champion of Kirkwall means a lot. Hawke is the offical protector of the city with all the powerful figures of the city asking for their aid. Thats partially why I believe Hawke wasn't doing anything about Meridith before Act 3. She was to busy being a hero for whiny Nobles and the poor wretches of Lowtown and Darktown. Plus I likeed the Hawke couldn't do everything angle, she/he tried the best they could and doesn't always work out. Made my character seem more human.

[CrimsonZephyr]

Darkrider296 wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

Vrex_12 wrote...

And this is exactly why I think DA2 was a great game. No other game has shown this much emotion, and I almost cried in a few moments when a friend of mine played some sad music at the same time. One reason why I love BW<3

Meh... after playing DA2 for the first time I was more like "There is a point when it's just to much".

It becomes kind of dull, if you ask me. Nothing good happens to Hawke. Just bad stuff. I wrote somewhere that it seemed like Hawke was carrying a "kick me" sign around and the fate was happy to oblige. If something good happend ("yay, you're rich now!") it was always coupled with something bad that outweighed it ("but your brother/sister is dead/a warden/a templar/dragged to the circle").

I missed the feeling that I accomplished something. All I had at the end of the game was the fact that my Hawke lost his whole family, wasn't able to stop the war that now will engulf Thedas, was abandoned by his friends, had to go into hiding and then disappeared anyway and all he got was the title "Champion of Kirkwall" that doesn't really meant anything.

I'm not really into Downer Endings, but I can appreciate them. DA2 was just one giant "kick him, while he is down" scenario and just a little bit to "low" even for my "low fantasy" taste.

Come on you can't  honestly want only good things to happen. I mean having tragedy in a story only makes it better while at least in my opinion it does. Its supposed to show that despite how rich and powerful you become bad things can still happen to them. Plus Champion of Kirkwall means a lot. Hawke is the offical protector of the city with all the powerful figures of the city asking for their aid. Thats partially why I believe Hawke wasn't doing anything about Meridith before Act 3. She was to busy being a hero for whiny Nobles and the poor wretches of Lowtown and Darktown. Plus I likeed the Hawke couldn't do everything angle, she/he tried the best they could and doesn't always work out. Made my character seem more human.

Except that Hawke truly achieves nothing. That Champion of Kirkwall title is functionally useless. Being a noble in a city as ass-backward as Kirkwall is functionally useless. I was begging for a ship back to Ferelden. The game forces you to roleplay a character actually invested in the well-being of this **** pile of a city, when I really just wanted it to burn.

[Jaulen]

JnEricsonx wrote...

Filament wrote...

It could be worse... they could have killed off Barkwall. Or killed off Hawke and then had Barkwall just sitting there by his door in a time lapse for years until finally dying of old age.

Ok, I had frakking tears in my eyes in that scene in Futurama.  And whats worse, several months later I buried my own dog, and she died on my BIRTHDAY.    Even when I mentioned that ep to Billy West at a convention, he waved it off quickly because apparently "that episode was depressing for everyone"

I cry just thinking about that episode.

I figure Hawke is like the bibical Job....fate's testing Hawke to see what they're made of.

But then I'm a sucker for tragedy (tragic romance stories are my FAVE!!!), sO I'm still oving and letting myself get all wrapped into the sad/depressing bits of the game.

And I killed a fully romanced friendly Anders on my first playthrough.....I thought that death scene could have been done better. Especially with how well done and sappy the romance scenes were. And the lines should be a little different if it's a friend-mance or rival-mance final goodbye. But I don't recall if they are or not.

[Browneye_Vamp84]

When mamma Hawke died it reminded me of when in DA:O you play the human noble you lose both your parents... both of these on my first playthrough almost made my heart shatter...

[Carmen_Willow]

My first playthrough of this game was with Alistair as a Grey Warden instead of king. By the time he showed up, I was so down and depressed by all the angst that all I wanted to do was tag after the Wardens and get the heck out of Dodge! He made me so homesick for Ferelden, I had tears in my eyes.

[Carmen_Willow]

OP, you forgot the one where if you send Feynriel to the Circle and he's made tranquil his mother commits suicide--that one really sucked.

[PinkShoes]

Jennifer Brandes Hepler wrote...

Dragon Age has always been a game that has pushed the idea of tragedy. When we first discussed having Alistair sacrifice himself out of love of the Warden, there was debate over whether players would find that moving or just be frustrated that he made a decision they couldn't control. We decided to go with what we all reacted to in our guts as a cool emotional moment, and it became a defining part of DA:O for people who experienced it.

Ah god that moment just killed me, never did it that way again! I couldnt i was nearly in tears when he said it and nearly for me is as close to crying as im gunna get.

Problem really is in DA2 you (or at least i) never feel heartbroken when someone dies. Sure it was sad when your sibling dies or your mother or if you kill Anders off, but there was no scene that really just made me go "God i just cant do that again"

Seriously though whoever did that Alistair scene desveres a grammy, was amazing.

[Vilegrim]

I couldn't get involved with Hawke that way, didn't feel like he/she had any influence over events, and the Voiced PC aspect just didn't work for me in this game. Works fine in ME, works in The Witcher series, but I couldn't connect to hawke in the same way

[Lilunebrium]

Jennifer Brandes Hepler wrote...

So, while we have certainly been disapointed in the number of fans who didn't feel a sense of agency with Hawke because of all the emotional events surrounding her/him -- and will be taking steps to ensure a better feeling of personal impact in future stories -- Dragon Age products will likely continue to push the boundaries of dark fantasy and human tragedy. So, while you may experience greater victories in future products, it wouldn't be Dragon Age if they didn't come at a cost.

Jennifer Brandes Hepler wrote...

From what people are saying here, I think you'll like what's currently in the works.

You're an evil, evil woman, Jennifer Brandes Hepler. Making me yearn for something I won't be able to have for months and months.

Honestly, what with Legacy, the comments above and the ones Fernando Melo made in another interview, how can anyone not look forward to future DLC or another installment?
Especially since all the lore behind the Item Pack #2 items heavily point towards Maric involvement. \\o\\  /o/