310 réponses à ce sujet

[Bryy_Miller]

I think some people want to read more into BioWare's comments for validation or something.

[Persephone]

Yrkoon wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

How have they patronized you?

As others have pointed out, the repeated  "they can't handle change" retorts we've been hearing from Developers in various interviews since the game came out.

And make no mistake about it, they caught heat for making those  erroneous comments...  not just from us here at BSN, but from  other media as well.

The whole "OMG Bioware patronized us!" whinging really isn't convincing, given how the "core fans" or those self absorbed enough to overestimate their import, have acted before and after the launch of DAII. Patronizing does not even BEGIN to cover it. Dishing it out but unable to take the tiniest of retorts. Bioware, for all their mistakes and sometimes unfortunate wordings, have been bloody patient, esp. on here. Even when everything they said was torn out of context ON PURPOSE.

[Denizen89]

Started playing it after about a almost 5 month break and it will be my 9th playthrough. I got bored during the initial section of gameplay. The OP hit the nail on the head mostly with the flaws of this game. I liked the idea for faster combat but they just made it too Dynasty Warriors-esque. The story and character development really bugged me, this story was indeed a mess and was not very clear. I really did not like the idea that Anders is an abomination mainly because he was a fairly entertaining character in Awakening and I thought he would not have even joined with justice in the first place. Even if justice was his friend. Plus the Mage-Templar conflict was such a case of polar opposites with a bunch of nut cases in it. I think the sarcastic line Hawke delivers in Act 3 fits (may not be the exact quote.) "You know for one week I would not like to run into an insane mage. Just one week.." Plus they never really said in game outside of a couple vaguely written codex's about what the idol really was. What Bioware lost now was its insane preorder numbers. They will not be as high for the third instalment and I will be waiting to buy it when the reviews come out. Because I will not reserve another Dragon Age title ever again. I will for Mass Effect 3 though.

[Denizen89]

Persephone wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

How have they patronized you?

As others have pointed out, the repeated  "they can't handle change" retorts we've been hearing from Developers in various interviews since the game came out.

And make no mistake about it, they caught heat for making those  erroneous comments...  not just from us here at BSN, but from  other media as well.

The whole "OMG Bioware patronized us!" whinging really isn't convincing, given how the "core fans" or those self absorbed enough to overestimate their import, have acted before and after the launch of DAII. Patronizing does not even BEGIN to cover it. Dishing it out but unable to take the tiniest of retorts. Bioware, for all their mistakes and sometimes unfortunate wordings, have been bloody patient, esp. on here. Even when everything they said was torn out of context ON PURPOSE.

The fact is they should never have made those comments no matter how tiny. That is how fickle consumers can be. I thought those comments were indeed patronizing and very unneccessary given how many flaws this game has in it. Will I punish them for it no not in the manner I have seen but to wait and see with the next Dragon Age title. But Bioware has to do a lot more than a badly made game and a very unneccessary comment to get me to not purchase their product again.

[Persephone]

Denizen89 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

How have they patronized you?

As others have pointed out, the repeated  "they can't handle change" retorts we've been hearing from Developers in various interviews since the game came out.

And make no mistake about it, they caught heat for making those  erroneous comments...  not just from us here at BSN, but from  other media as well.

The whole "OMG Bioware patronized us!" whinging really isn't convincing, given how the "core fans" or those self absorbed enough to overestimate their import, have acted before and after the launch of DAII. Patronizing does not even BEGIN to cover it. Dishing it out but unable to take the tiniest of retorts. Bioware, for all their mistakes and sometimes unfortunate wordings, have been bloody patient, esp. on here. Even when everything they said was torn out of context ON PURPOSE.

The fact is they should never have made those comments no matter how tiny. That is how fickle consumers can be. I thought those comments were indeed patronizing and very unneccessary given how many flaws this game has in it. Will I punish them for it no not in the manner I have seen but to wait and see with the next Dragon Age title. But Bioware has to do a lot more than a badly made game and a very unneccessary comment to get me to not purchase their product again.

Missed the "torn out of context" part, hmmmm? Just as you are in no way obliged to like their games, they are in NO way obliged to apologize for a game they have made and are proud of (While being aware that, like DAO, it has some serious flaws). You think DAII was badly made. That's a shame. You think expecting Bioware to go "Mea culpa!" is not patronizing? Never mind the rest of the behavior that some have exhibited, going to extremes such as demanding that devs be fired, threats etc.

I still have yet to SEE any of these "patronizing" comments. Those that weren't blown out of proportion/torn out of context/twisted on purpose......:innocent:

Modifié par Persephone, 22 août 2011 - 10:41 .

[Yrkoon]

Persephone wrote...


The whole "OMG Bioware patronized us!" whinging really isn't convincing, given how the "core fans" or those self absorbed enough to overestimate their import, have acted before and after the launch of DAII. Patronizing does not even BEGIN to cover it. Dishing it out but unable to take the tiniest of retorts. Bioware, for all their mistakes and sometimes unfortunate wordings, have been bloody patient, esp. on here. Even when everything they said was torn out of context ON PURPOSE.

Try as I might, I haven't the faintest clue what you're going on about.

The  "people just can't handle change" comments  from the Devs were not made on these forums... so what does our behavior  here have to do with anything?  Oh that's right.  nothing at all.

PS:    And there's nothing more meaningless than discussing the "patience" or lack thereof of a friggin Game developer.  As it has exactly zero bearing on the game that's being criticised.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 22 août 2011 - 10:54 .

[Denizen89]

Persephone wrote...

Denizen89 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

How have they patronized you?

As others have pointed out, the repeated  "they can't handle change" retorts we've been hearing from Developers in various interviews since the game came out.

And make no mistake about it, they caught heat for making those  erroneous comments...  not just from us here at BSN, but from  other media as well.

The whole "OMG Bioware patronized us!" whinging really isn't convincing, given how the "core fans" or those self absorbed enough to overestimate their import, have acted before and after the launch of DAII. Patronizing does not even BEGIN to cover it. Dishing it out but unable to take the tiniest of retorts. Bioware, for all their mistakes and sometimes unfortunate wordings, have been bloody patient, esp. on here. Even when everything they said was torn out of context ON PURPOSE.

The fact is they should never have made those comments no matter how tiny. That is how fickle consumers can be. I thought those comments were indeed patronizing and very unneccessary given how many flaws this game has in it. Will I punish them for it no not in the manner I have seen but to wait and see with the next Dragon Age title. But Bioware has to do a lot more than a badly made game and a very unneccessary comment to get me to not purchase their product again.

Missed the "torn out of context" part, hmmmm? Just as you are in no way obliged to like their games, they are in NO way obliged to apologize for a game they have made and are proud of (While being aware that, like DAO, it has some serious glaws). You think DAII was badly made. That's a shame. You think expecting Bioware to go "Mea culpa!" is not patronizing? Never mind the rest of the behavior that some have exhibited, going to extremes such as demanding that devs be fired, threats etc.

I still have yet to SEE any of these "patronizing" comments. Those that weren't blown out of proportion/torn out of context/twisted on purpose......:innocent:

No I read it, Just think it wasn't torn out of context. and besides I do believe that is the thing about opinions isn't it they are like butt holes every has them. I do indeed think it was considering. If they are proud of it hey they are inclined to believe that even if I heavily disagree. Flaming me isn't going to do much of anything. Do I need to exhibit behavior as you have mentioned; No I don't think so. They just need to really think about who their core buyers are considering genre and find a way to appeal to the casual gamer because Dragon Age is not a military game by any means. Besides I do believe that customers are by right allowed to scream, moan, and complain , and it is completely in Biowares right to either ignore or adhear to these complaints if given in a civilized manner. They are not really inclined to insult or badger the customer if they want to keep their Business. That is something you don't do on part of being a business about making money. Hence that is probably why they haven't said much else in that manner.

So in effect it is patronizing and if they lose customers they deserve it. People are fickle things and very easily insulted. Whether you believe that is moot as you don't seem to think anything of it. So Peace be onto you my child.

[Denizen89]

Yrkoon wrote...

Persephone wrote...


The whole "OMG Bioware patronized us!" whinging really isn't convincing, given how the "core fans" or those self absorbed enough to overestimate their import, have acted before and after the launch of DAII. Patronizing does not even BEGIN to cover it. Dishing it out but unable to take the tiniest of retorts. Bioware, for all their mistakes and sometimes unfortunate wordings, have been bloody patient, esp. on here. Even when everything they said was torn out of context ON PURPOSE.

Try as I might, I haven't the faintest clue what you're going on about.

The  "people just can't handle change" comments  from the Devs were not made on these forums... so what does our behavior  here have to do with anything?  Oh that's right.  nothing at all.

PS:    And there's nothing more meaningless than discussing the "patience" or lack thereof of a friggin Game developer.  And what difference does it make whether or not they're "nice and tolerant" of their critics? 

Honestly, I can't disagree with you. Just voicing an opinion its that simple.

[Persephone]

Yrkoon wrote...

Persephone wrote...


The whole "OMG Bioware patronized us!" whinging really isn't convincing, given how the "core fans" or those self absorbed enough to overestimate their import, have acted before and after the launch of DAII. Patronizing does not even BEGIN to cover it. Dishing it out but unable to take the tiniest of retorts. Bioware, for all their mistakes and sometimes unfortunate wordings, have been bloody patient, esp. on here. Even when everything they said was torn out of context ON PURPOSE.

Try as I might, I haven't the faintest clue what you're going on about.

The  "people just can't handle change" comments  from the Devs were not made on these forums... so what does our behavior  here have to do with anything?  Oh that's right.  nothing at all.

My post was crystal clear. Where do you think the devs will look for feedback first? Oh, that's right, at their own forum!!! And I remember the dozens upon dozens "OMG!!! They ruined DAO!" and "Bioware, where is my DAO2"? And "This is no longer DAO!" and "Why was XYZ chaaaaaaaanged?" threads. And the "DAO did it perfectly! Why was this chaaaaaaaanged?" threads. (Which version DID those people play?) Just because this happens much more rarely now, does not change this at all. Yes, the changes were troubling to some. Which doesn't mean that "they couldn't deal with them" but that they disliked it. No more, no less.

There is no "People just can't handle change" quotation. Anywhere. There are "We changed this & that and several of our fans seemed to dislike that." and "We changed this and that and several of our core fans disliked it, which was a surprise because we thought said change improved XYZ markedly."

[Yrkoon]

Your ridiculous attempt to connect  your disconnected point aside,  Lets just remember  that our Vehement criticisms of DA2/Bioware etc.  is  not unwanted, anyway.   According to at least one  Bioware Senior Dev,  Backlash is better than Apathy.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 22 août 2011 - 11:00 .

[Persephone]

Yrkoon wrote...

And lest Persiphone decide to berate us for our emotion against this game, lets just remember that according to at least ONE Bioware Senior Dev,  Backlash is better than Apathy.

And he is entirely correct. There is nothing worse than apathy in the entertainment business.

[Yrkoon]

Persephone wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

And lest Persiphone decide to berate us for our emotion against this game, lets just remember that according to at least ONE Bioware Senior Dev,  Backlash is better than Apathy.

And he is entirely correct.

Indeed.  Which means that  your incessant  attempts (on every thread you post in) to get us to  " quit whinging", is UNWANTED... even by the devs themselves.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 22 août 2011 - 11:02 .

[Persephone]

Yrkoon wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

And lest Persiphone decide to berate us for our emotion against this game, lets just remember that according to at least ONE Bioware Senior Dev,  Backlash is better than Apathy.

And he is entirely correct.

Indeed.  Which means that  your incessant  attempts (on every thread you post in) to get us to  " quit whinging", is UNWANTED... even by the devs themselves.

Cute attempt, really. Sure, the devs encourage juvenile ranting, of course they do. Example A of tearing quotations out of context. Well done.

I never told you to "quit whinging", it would be useless. But do you truly think that going on and on about how Bioware supposedly said "People cannot handle our super duper changes!" is going to achieve anything?

[csfteeeer]

Yrkoon wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

And lest Persiphone decide to berate us for our emotion against this game, lets just remember that according to at least ONE Bioware Senior Dev,  Backlash is better than Apathy.

And he is entirely correct.

Indeed.  Which means that  your incessant  attempts (on every thread you post in) to get us to  " quit whinging", is UNWANTED... even by the devs themselves.

Ah, ok, as someone who hates DA2.... Perhaps more than anybody, i think what she wants is for us to be more civilized, which i can agree with, not literally "Shut the F**k up".

[Yrkoon]

Persephone wrote...
 But do you truly think that going on and on....

  Stop.  I'm not here to achieve anything.  and you're not a moderator.    and  until you become one, I won't  be changing my posting style just because  it 'annoys you.

PS:  DA2 sucked @ss.   And that's why I didn't like it.   I'm *glad*  Bioware is going back to the drawing board with DA3.  Because another incarnation of DA2 would  suck @ss again.

How's that?

Modifié par Yrkoon, 22 août 2011 - 11:13 .

[Persephone]

csfteeeer wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

And lest Persiphone decide to berate us for our emotion against this game, lets just remember that according to at least ONE Bioware Senior Dev,  Backlash is better than Apathy.

And he is entirely correct.

Indeed.  Which means that  your incessant  attempts (on every thread you post in) to get us to  " quit whinging", is UNWANTED... even by the devs themselves.

Ah, ok, as someone who hates DA2.... Perhaps more than anybody, i think what she wants is for us to be more civilized, which i can agree with, not literally "Shut the F**k up".

Pretty much this, yes. It's been almost 6 months and the heat should have simmered down now, somewhat, at least. I can understand that those who vehemently disliked DAII and still care about the Franchise as a whole want to make sure they are heard. I think it's fair to say that they are heard and then some. :happy:

[Persephone]

Yrkoon wrote...

I'm ever so sorry persiphone,  But you're  not a forum moderator,    and  until you become one, I won't  be changing my posting style just because  it 'annoys you>

PS:  DA2 sucked @ss.  I'm *glad*  Bioware is going back to the drawing board with DA3.  Because another incarnation of DA2 would  suck @ss again.

How's that?

How's that? Childish, immature and as far removed from constructive criticism as it gets.

So it's as unique as the enviroments in DAII.

[Yrkoon]

And by sheer contrast, the following is the epitome of mature constructive criticism:

Persephone wrote...

The whole "OMG Bioware patronized us!" whinging really isn't convincing, given how the "core fans"  or those self absorbed enough to overestimate their import, have acted before and after the launch of DAII. Patronizing does not even BEGIN to cover it. Dishing it out but unable to take the tiniest of retorts. Bioware, for all their mistakes and sometimes unfortunate wordings, have been bloody patient, esp. on here. Even when everything they said was torn out of context ON PURPOSE.

Right?

[csfteeeer]

Persephone wrote...

csfteeeer wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

And lest Persiphone decide to berate us for our emotion against this game, lets just remember that according to at least ONE Bioware Senior Dev,  Backlash is better than Apathy.

And he is entirely correct.

Indeed.  Which means that  your incessant  attempts (on every thread you post in) to get us to  " quit whinging", is UNWANTED... even by the devs themselves.

Ah, ok, as someone who hates DA2.... Perhaps more than anybody, i think what she wants is for us to be more civilized, which i can agree with, not literally "Shut the F**k up".

Pretty much this, yes. It's been almost 6 months and the heat should have simmered down now, somewhat, at least. I can understand that those who vehemently disliked DAII and still care about the Franchise as a whole want to make sure they are heard. I think it's fair to say that they are heard and then some. :happy:

Ok, i agree with you there.
i dislike DA2, a lot, but i'm interested to see what will happen with the story, and if that's the case, i would like to voice my opinion and see if DA3 will be a game i will actually like, But the personals jabs, the Ridicule of the Devs, and MURDER threats.... i'm always like "come on man, that's just too much".

[Persephone]

Yrkoon wrote...

And by sheer contrast, the following is the epitome of mature constructive criticism:

Persephone wrote...

The whole "OMG Bioware patronized us!" whinging really isn't convincing, given how the "core fans"  or those self absorbed enough to overestimate their import, have acted before and after the launch of DAII. Patronizing does not even BEGIN to cover it. Dishing it out but unable to take the tiniest of retorts. Bioware, for all their mistakes and sometimes unfortunate wordings, have been bloody patient, esp. on here. Even when everything they said was torn out of context ON PURPOSE.

Right?

Are you telling me that none of these things actually happened? Many who hate DAII have said that it did and that it does not represent their viewpoint at all and should be ignored in favor of the Constructive Criticism thread and other threads where actual game based discussion took place/takes place. And I happen to agree with that.

[Persephone]

csfteeeer wrote...

Ok, i agree with you there.
i dislike DA2, a lot, but i'm interested to see what will happen with the story, and if that's the case, i would like to voice my opinion and see if DA3 will be a game i will actually like, But the personals jabs, the Ridicule of the Devs, and MURDER threats.... i'm always like "come on man, that's just too much".

Exactly. I have read severely critical reviews of DAII here and elsewhere that were well written, had loads of thought put into them and gave the devs loads of material to work with. And while I may not agree with a lot of what they said (Personally), I think these reviews are necessary. Just as necessary as positive reviews are. Balance is the key. :happy:

[Yrkoon]

Persephone wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

And by sheer contrast, the following is the epitome of mature constructive criticism:

Persephone wrote...

The whole "OMG Bioware patronized us!" whinging really isn't convincing, given how the "core fans"  or those self absorbed enough to overestimate their import, have acted before and after the launch of DAII. Patronizing does not even BEGIN to cover it. Dishing it out but unable to take the tiniest of retorts. Bioware, for all their mistakes and sometimes unfortunate wordings, have been bloody patient, esp. on here. Even when everything they said was torn out of context ON PURPOSE.

Right?

Are you telling me that none of these things actually happened? 

No, persiphone, I'm pretty sure I'm saying that the pot shouldn't be calling the kettle black.  You want civil discussion?   Then perhaps, for starters,  you shouldn't be calling us "whingers" and "self absorbed".

[Persephone]

Yrkoon wrote...

No, persiphone, I'm pretty sure I'm saying that the pot shouldn't be calling the kettle black.  You want civil discussion?   Then perhaps, for starters,  you shouldn't be calling us "whingers" and "self absorbed".

Did I call you that? No, I did not. Unless you count yourself among those who did these things. Us? Who is us?

And perhaps, for starters, you should spell my name correctly if you must use it.

[Yrkoon]

Persephone wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

No, persiphone, I'm pretty sure I'm saying that the pot shouldn't be calling the kettle black.  You want civil discussion?   Then perhaps, for starters,  you shouldn't be calling us "whingers" and "self absorbed".

Did I call you that? 

  Worse.    You leveled those comments on an entire segment of the player base. That's neither mature debating,  nor constructive criticism.  No  meaningful  discourse can come from such comments.

So yeah, practice what you preach.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 22 août 2011 - 11:36 .