310 réponses à ce sujet

[IanPolaris]

[deleted already addressed this post]

Modifié par IanPolaris, 21 août 2011 - 07:34 .

[IanPolaris]

[dp]

[IanPolaris]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

You are probably never going to hear a dev admit they screwed up, not unless he's his own boss.

Probably true, but is it too much to ask for the Devs not to blame their customers for their own mistakes?

-Polaris

[LobselVith8]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

You are probably never going to hear a dev admit they screwed up, not unless he's his own boss.

True, but do they honestly think blaming the fans or Origins - the game people liked and what drew them to Dragon Age in the first place - is going to be effective?

[Kilshrek]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

You are probably never going to hear a dev admit they screwed up, not unless he's his own boss.

Only time I can think that ever happened was for Elemental. But even then, nobody likes to eat humble pie, so I doubt any dev, boss or no, would come close to saying they screwed up. Or to a point here, kicked a section of their fan base to the curb.

[Reaverwind]

Maelora wrote...

1) A poor action game instead of an RPG.
2) Your decisions don't matter
3) Wave enemies
4) Weightless anime combat
5) Overused environment

While I enjoyed 'Legacy', mostly due to Grey Warden Bethany, I don't see it as a step in the right direction. There's not a single decision of consequence in that DLC.

When I heard Bioware was planning to make the gameplay more "actiony", I was dubious, as I didn't believe their engine can really support it. Sure enough, what we got was a poor action-hybrid. To make matters worse, combat mostly consists of boring repetitve encounters that feature way too much auto-attacking/spamming of the 'A' button. I've seen the YouTube videos of the DLC, and have to wonder if the best they can do is rip the boss battles straight out of WoW (Deadmines, to be exact).

Environments were defintely over-used, and instead of featuing larger, more open areas than Origins as I hoped - what we got was more corridors.

The story was an absolute mess. I couldn't shake the feeling I was playing an mmo with all the fetch and kill x quests I had to do just to open the next part of the plot. And REALLY, Bioware? Did both main factions have to be filled with extreme nutcases?

[FieryDove]

LobselVith8 wrote...

True, but do they honestly think blaming the fans or Origins - the game people liked and what drew them to Dragon Age in the first place - is going to be effective?

Several people already called it when DA3 marketing goes full tilt DA2 will be bashed by the marketing/PR to make DA3 look good. We'll see what happens.

[xkg]

Kilshrek wrote...

Weiser_Cain wrote...

You are probably never going to hear a dev admit they screwed up, not unless he's his own boss.

Only time I can think that ever happened was for Elemental. But even then, nobody likes to eat humble pie, so I doubt any dev, boss or no, would come close to saying they screwed up. Or to a point here, kicked a section of their fan base to the curb.

Not only. So much hated Peter Molyneux did that too - apologized for all that BS he made up during his earlier marketing speeches (Fable).

Modifié par xkg, 21 août 2011 - 07:45 .

[IanPolaris]

FieryDove wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

True, but do they honestly think blaming the fans or Origins - the game people liked and what drew them to Dragon Age in the first place - is going to be effective?

Several people already called it when DA3 marketing goes full tilt DA2 will be bashed by the marketing/PR to make DA3 look good. We'll see what happens.

I think you're right but they still won't admit they screwed up or kicked part of their fanbase (at least 60% of it by my reconning based on the sales numbers) to the curb.

-Polaris

[Kilshrek]

xkg wrote...

Not only. So much hated Peter Molyneux did
that too - apologized for all that BS he made up during his earlier
marketing speeches (Fable).

I honestly can't say I pay any more attention to what he says about his games. Especially about Fable Kinect. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/uncertain.png[/smilie]

On a slightly related note, LH as a dev has just lost 90 points of respect for completely failing to fix several 100% reproducible bugs in Fable 3. At least Bioware never leaves their fans flapping in the breeze like that.

IanPolaris wrote...

FieryDove wrote...
Several people already called it
when DA3 marketing goes full tilt DA2 will be bashed by the marketing/PR
to make DA3 look good. We'll see what happens.

I think
you're right but they still won't admit they screwed up or kicked part
of their fanbase (at least 60% of it by my reconning based on the sales
numbers) to the curb.

-Polaris

They won't have to, but I can see the same lines being used when DA 3 doesn't end up pleasing everybody.

1) Some people won't like the innovations of DA 3
2) Some people were expecting DA (2) 3
3) DA 3 has been made for your gran to be able to pick up and play within minutes! No need to worry about learning the system, the system will learn you! (Obviously no such line was ever used, but you can get the gist of it)
4) The true, but too easy to use, "We can't please everybody"

Modifié par Kilshrek, 21 août 2011 - 07:57 .

[Sylvianus]

IanPolaris wrote...

FieryDove wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

True, but do they honestly think blaming the fans or Origins - the game people liked and what drew them to Dragon Age in the first place - is going to be effective?

Several people already called it when DA3 marketing goes full tilt DA2 will be bashed by the marketing/PR to make DA3 look good. We'll see what happens.

I think you're right but they still won't admit they screwed up or kicked part of their fanbase (at least 60% of it by my reconning based on the sales numbers) to the curb.

-Polaris

What interest?

I do not defend Bioware but the logic behind it. Whatever they say, It won't please anyone. What people want is results which show that Bioware is listening or understood the errors of the past.

Rather than words that do not really satisfy someone, concrete results. And I think that is the policy of Bioware.

By cons, in fact, to blame the fans for having loved a game, it is a mistake that I find  idiot, and that's why I  don't believe  at all that Bioware did it.

Or give me quote please.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 21 août 2011 - 08:08 .

[Sandbox47]

There was a lot of job put into this post so I'll go ahead and feed the troll.

I don't actually mind that you didn't actually play the game, LPs are just as good. What does bother me is that you are almost always on point but then miss it completely. The music isn't forgetable, that doesn't mean anything. Anyone can be compared to a character from a lousy sitcom. The fact that you didn't like the way the story was organized is no ones fault. Just find another story. I don't like Godfather. I don't make threads about it.

See what I mean?

[IanPolaris]

Please, Bioware has blamed their fans for "not getting" DA2 for a while now.

-Polaris

[Mad Method]

Sandbox,

As I said in the OP, I only made this thread because when I was trying to answer someone's question, it derailed the thread I posted it in. I figure there are other people wondering about it too, so I've made a list of the myriad complaints underlying "I hate/dislike/am disappointed by DA2" so that folks who ask "why?" can have a clear and exhaustive answer here. This is not meant to be a review or a rant, and I am not a one-sided hater. There are, in fact, aspects of DA2 that I view as an improvement over DAO.

[Jarcander]

Pretty sure OP pirated the game since he has such fine critisism to offer, but only insane individuals would admit it.

But yes, here we have the usual and valid points why the game isn't as good as it's predecessor. Still clocked 100 hours playing the game, because BW has such fabulous writers. What I find most annoying, however, are the bull**** interviews where they talk about the game like frigging lawyers in a courtroom.

I really like how a certain anonymous Internet person put it: "I wish they would just man up and admit they made a bad game like Stardock did."

[Weiser_Cain]

Jarcander wrote...

Pretty sure OP pirated the game since he has such fine critisism to offer...

Youtube

[Jarcander]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

Jarcander wrote...

Pretty sure OP pirated the game since he has such fine critisism to offer...

Youtube

You really shouldn't trust someone making critisism from third person perspective.

[Kilshrek]

Jarcander wrote...

Pretty sure OP pirated the game since he has such fine critisism to offer, but only insane individuals would admit it.

But yes, here we have the usual and valid points why the game isn't as good as it's predecessor. Still clocked 100 hours playing the game, because BW has such fabulous writers. What I find most annoying, however, are the bull**** interviews where they talk about the game like frigging lawyers in a courtroom.

I really like how a certain anonymous Internet person put it: "I wish they would just man up and admit they made a bad game like Stardock did."

How did you come to this conclusion? Someone legitimately buying the game and offering criticism isn't possible?

While it would be nice(for me) to hear the devs hold up their hands and say they royally screwed up with DA 2, it won't happen because :

1) Enough people liked DA 2 for them to pass it off as a success (how much of a success only they know)
2) It would be too much humble pie to take, especially since much of the after game press was focused on how the people who didn't like DA 2 were people who couldn't handle change and innovation.
3) Humble pie tastes horrible.

[Weiser_Cain]

Jarcander wrote...

Weiser_Cain wrote...

Jarcander wrote...

Pretty sure OP pirated the game since he has such fine critisism to offer...

Youtube

You really shouldn't trust someone making critisism from third person perspective.

I made my own decisions looking at the first info coming out for this game, I kept tabs, complained a little on these forums and once it came out looked at some gameplay videos. Trust me there are so few RPG's I really wanted DA2 to be awesome, or at least palatable. And usually I can tell just by looking at a trailer so...

[Jarcander]

Kilshrek wrote...

How did you come to this conclusion? Someone legitimately buying the game and offering criticism isn't possible?

While it would be nice(for me) to hear the devs hold up their hands and say they royally screwed up with DA 2, it won't happen because :

1) Enough people liked DA 2 for them to pass it off as a success (how much of a success only they know)
2) It would be too much humble pie to take, especially since much of the after game press was focused on how the people who didn't like DA 2 were people who couldn't handle change and innovation.
3) Humble pie tastes horrible.

Well...

OP wrote...

Hello,

I only played the demo, but I've
seen some LP and review material and a lot of griping, so I'm pretty
confident about the following

So he didn't play the full game. I have tried the demo and it didn't offer much information. This is a hamster wheel conversation anyway, since I actually agree to most of the stuff he said.

Anyway, it is understandable that not every group of devs have as massive balls as Stardock and their game, Galactic Civ 2, is still considered best space strategy game around even after they manned up. They don't treat their players like idiots and earn respect in return-

[Jarcander]

Weiser_Cain wrote...
I made my own decisions looking at the first info coming out for this game, I kept tabs, complained a little on these forums and once it came out looked at some gameplay videos. Trust me there are so few RPG's I really wanted DA2 to be awesome, or at least palatable. And usually I can tell just by looking at a trailer so...

Yeh, I pre-ordered and boy did I feel stupid 10 hours into game, facepalming to a yet another identical warehouse. The faults of DA2 are not that apparent from trailers, feature lists and gameplay videos. Trailers and such are supposed to look like a tasty cake and we often buy games based on those. That trust has taken a little damage now. I'm not used to getting burned by Bioware.

[Persephone]

Jarcander wrote...

Weiser_Cain wrote...
I made my own decisions looking at the first info coming out for this game, I kept tabs, complained a little on these forums and once it came out looked at some gameplay videos. Trust me there are so few RPG's I really wanted DA2 to be awesome, or at least palatable. And usually I can tell just by looking at a trailer so...

Yeh, I pre-ordered and boy did I feel stupid 10 hours into game, facepalming to a yet another identical warehouse. The faults of DA2 are not that apparent from trailers, feature lists and gameplay videos. Trailers and such are supposed to look like a tasty cake and we often buy games based on those. That trust has taken a little damage now. I'm not used to getting burned by Bioware.

Haven't you played ANY DAO DLC? (Nearly all garbage) Or Awakening? Or the NWN1 main campaign?

Gimme DAII + Legacy over that ANY day.

[DeathDragon185]

Yes this game is not perfect but it's still better than most of the **** games in shops now.
A)Reused environments: big issue I know but with a 1.5 year development time(not that long) they just had more important things to worry about.
not customizing party members: This is all about opinion here, i personally like the iconic looks for characters
C) decisions don't matter: this actually does bother me
D) anime combat: Anime is now a BAD thing?????
E) waves of enemies: only should be used for darkspawn hordes
F) "too button mashy": bump the difficulty up.

but really it comes down opinion of a game and you can very rarely convince over the Internet

[Bryy_Miller]

Sylvianus wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

FieryDove wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

True, but do they honestly think blaming the fans or Origins - the game people liked and what drew them to Dragon Age in the first place - is going to be effective?

Several people already called it when DA3 marketing goes full tilt DA2 will be bashed by the marketing/PR to make DA3 look good. We'll see what happens.

I think you're right but they still won't admit they screwed up or kicked part of their fanbase (at least 60% of it by my reconning based on the sales numbers) to the curb.

-Polaris

What interest?

I do not defend Bioware but the logic behind it. Whatever they say, It won't please anyone. What people want is results which show that Bioware is listening or understood the errors of the past.

Rather than words that do not really satisfy someone, concrete results. And I think that is the policy of Bioware.

By cons, in fact, to blame the fans for having loved a game, it is a mistake that I find  idiot, and that's why I  don't believe  at all that Bioware did it.

Or give me quote please.

It's useless to argue with Polaris. He thinks his opinion is fact.

[Yrkoon]

Xilizhra wrote...

How have they patronized you?

As others have pointed out, the repeated  "they can't handle change" retorts we've been hearing from Developers in various interviews since the game came out.

And make no mistake about it, they caught heat for making those  erroneous comments...  not just from us here at BSN, but from  other media as well.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 22 août 2011 - 09:40 .