220 réponses à ce sujet

[dheer]

www.industrygamers.com/news/bioware-defends-changes-to-dragon-age-ii-plans-to-integrate-feedback-from-core-fans/

It's mostly the PR laden response they usually give when talking about DA2, from what I can tell.

It seems a really odd form of posturing for the public when they do these interviews. It's as if admitting to flaws in the game are going to damage the franchise or their image. From what I've seen, fans love a little humility shown by developers. Admitting they misunderstood what a lot of fans liked about the first game and that they simply released the second game too early won't kill anyone.

"We’re commercially successful, so we actually drew a lot of new fans in,
exceeded our expectations, and what we want to do in the future is make
sure we integrate that feedback from our core fans, so they come along
with us for the journey, as we continue to build up the Dragon Age franchise and make the next ones even bigger and better so that all of our fans are delighted and surprised."

Talk about keeping your expectations low. From the rough sales numbers we know, they've sold near half of what the first game did. Did they expect the game to completely bomb?

[alex90c]

I find those interviews so rage inducing. Once again "we got a lot of fans with DA2!" (yeah, hence why DA:O sold a few million and DA2 has what, 1,5 million copies "sold in"? Once again, "people wanted an Origins 2". No, they just want a good game, not the piece of [cheese] DA2 is.

Plus the interview is so ambiguous that it could have been posted a few months ago without changing any of the content of it.

[no swearing, please]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 10 août 2011 - 05:39 .

[Persephone]

[quote]alex90c wrote...

I find those interviews so rage inducing. Once again "we got a lot of fans with DA2!" (yeah, hence why DA:O sold a few million and DA2 has what, 1,5 million copies "sold in"? Once again, "people wanted an Origins 2". No, they just want a good game, not the piece of [Lego] DA2 is.
.[/quote]

Eh? You have the official sales numbers?

Oh right, you actually do not.


[quote edited]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 10 août 2011 - 05:39 .

[dheer]

Persephone wrote...
Eh? You have the official sales numbers?

Oh right, you actually do not.

We most likely will never get official sales numbers. EA usually releases their salesnumbers as "sold in" which only tells us how many they sold to retailers and doesn't include digital sales.

All we can do is use numbers that are out there as a rough estimate and look at trends in sales.

[alex90c]

[quote]Persephone wrote...

[quote]alex90c wrote...

I find those interviews so rage inducing. Once again "we got a lot of fans with DA2!" (yeah, hence why DA:O sold a few million and DA2 has what, 1,5 million copies "sold in"? Once again, "people wanted an Origins 2". No, they just want a good game, not the piece of [manatee] DA2 is.
.[/quote]

Eh? You have the official sales numbers?

Oh right, you actually do not.

[/quote]

Are you trying to say DA2 sold more than Origins?


[quote edited]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 10 août 2011 - 05:40 .

[Persephone]

[quote]alex90c wrote...

[quote]Persephone wrote...

[quote]alex90c wrote...

I find those interviews so rage inducing. Once again "we got a lot of fans with DA2!" (yeah, hence why DA:O sold a few million and DA2 has what, 1,5 million copies "sold in"? Once again, "people wanted an Origins 2". No, they just want a good game, not the piece of [gorgonzola] DA2 is.
.[/quote]

Eh? You have the official sales numbers?

Oh right, you actually do not.

[/quote]

Are you trying to say DA2 sold more than Origins?

[/quote]

No. I am not. I am saying that neither you or I know how many copies of
DAII have been sold thus far. As for the "sold in" number, even I know
that it's above 2 million, not 1.5 million.

[quote edited]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 10 août 2011 - 05:40 .

[alex90c]

[quote]Persephone wrote...

[quote]alex90c wrote...

[quote]Persephone wrote...

[quote]alex90c wrote...

I find those interviews so rage inducing. Once again "we got a lot of fans with DA2!" (yeah, hence why DA:O sold a few million and DA2 has what, 1,5 million copies "sold in"? Once again, "people wanted an Origins 2". No, they just want a good game, not the piece of [Smurf] DA2 is.
.[/quote]

Eh? You have the official sales numbers?

Oh right, you actually do not.

[/quote]

Are you trying to say DA2 sold more than Origins?

[/quote]

No. I am not. I am saying that neither you or I know how many copies of
DAII have been sold thus far. As for the "sold in" number, even I know
that it's above 2 million, not 1.5 million.

[/quote]

My argument is this:

DA:O sold more than DA2.
DA:O was better received than DA:O.

Making a sequel that sells less than the first game is not "we got loads of new fans" and it's BS.

Semantics like the exact amount of sales each of the game had, I don't give a sh*t about.

Of course, this is all PR so I don't expect them to downplay their own product. Well until DA3 is announced anyway. Then I'm expecting Bioware marketing to completely rip in to DA2 to try and prove how amazing DA3 is - then if DA3 is a complete pile of ****** too, then ... that'll be quite sad.


[quote edited]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 10 août 2011 - 05:41 .

[Persephone]

[quote]alex90c wrote...

[quote]Persephone wrote...

[quote]alex90c wrote...

[quote]Persephone wrote...

[quote]alex90c wrote...

I find those interviews so rage inducing. Once again "we got a lot of fans with DA2!" (yeah, hence why DA:O sold a few million and DA2 has what, 1,5 million copies "sold in"? Once again, "people wanted an Origins 2". No, they just want a good game, not the piece of [Abercrombie] DA2 is.
.[/quote]

Eh? You have the official sales numbers?

Oh right, you actually do not.

[/quote]

Are you trying to say DA2 sold more than Origins?

[/quote]

No. I am not. I am saying that neither you or I know how many copies of
DAII have been sold thus far. As for the "sold in" number, even I know
that it's above 2 million, not 1.5 million.

[/quote]

My argument is this:

DA:O sold more than DA2.
DA:O was better received than DA:O.

Making a sequel that sells less than the first game is not "we got loads of new fans" and it's BS.

Semantics like the exact amount of sales each of the game had, I don't give a sh*t about.

[/quote]

And my argument is:

Quantity means nothing to me.

I'll always prefer Maria Callas to Christina Aguilera, even though Aguilera will always have higher sale numbers and more fans.

Receptions and sale numbers mean nada to me when it comes to deciding what I personally prefer.


[quote edited]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 10 août 2011 - 05:41 .

[happy_daiz]

So how does one compare sales from a game that came out in 2009 to a game that came out 5 months ago?  

Are there numbers available for DAO at the 5-month mark?

[alex90c]

And my argument is:

Quantity means nothing to me.

I'll always prefer Maria Callas to Christina Aguilera, even though Aguilera will always have higher sale numbers and more fans.

Receptions and sale numbers mean nada to me when it comes to deciding what I personally prefer.

But I never asked for your personal opinion of the game; I know you liked the game, while I strongly despise it so I'm never going to say "you should dislike the game because of reasons X, Y and Z", my argument has always been "this game sucks because of reasons X, Y and Z and I hate it as a result". Sure, I'm heavily imposing my view but I'm not asking you to change yours.

Modifié par alex90c, 10 août 2011 - 05:35 .

[Atakuma]

DA2 didn't need to sell as much as origins to be successful, since they obviously spent less on it than Origins.

[billy the squid]

[quote]Persephone wrote...

[quote]alex90c wrote...

[quote]Persephone wrote...

[quote]alex90c wrote...

[quote]Persephone wrote...

[quote]alex90c wrote...

I find those interviews so rage inducing. Once again "we got a lot of fans with DA2!" (yeah, hence why DA:O sold a few million and DA2 has what, 1,5 million copies "sold in"? Once again, "people wanted an Origins 2". No, they just want a good game, not the piece of [sammich] DA2 is.
.[/quote]

Eh? You have the official sales numbers?

Oh right, you actually do not.

[/quote]

Are you trying to say DA2 sold more than Origins?

[/quote]

No. I am not. I am saying that neither you or I know how many copies of
DAII have been sold thus far. As for the "sold in" number, even I know
that it's above 2 million, not 1.5 million.

[/quote]

My argument is this:

DA:O sold more than DA2.
DA:O was better received than DA:O.

Making a sequel that sells less than the first game is not "we got loads of new fans" and it's BS.

Semantics like the exact amount of sales each of the game had, I don't give a sh*t about.

[/quote]

And my argument is:

Quantity means nothing to me.

I'll always prefer Maria Callas to Christina Aguilera, even though Aguilera will always have higher sale numbers and more fans.

Receptions and sale numbers mean nada to me when it comes to deciding what I personally prefer.

[/quote]

The problem is, was not Dragon Age Origins designed to harken back to the older style of RPGs, such a Baulder's Gate despite the potentially smaller segment. In comparison wasn't the aim of DA2 to attract an audience who were intimidated by RPGs by designing the game to have broader appeal, yet did worse than the predecessor.

As for receptions and sales, it might mean naught to you, but to the company financing the product it does and they determine the direction.

[quote edited]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 10 août 2011 - 05:42 .

[Stanley Woo]

Please manage your quotes, everyone. it's as simple as removed the text between and including the innermost "[ quote ]" and the innermost "[ /quote ]" tags and repeating that process until you get tot he the text to which you're directly responding. thank you.

[Aaleel]

I don't know if I buy the whole PR speak, we got lots of new fans. But for arguments sake, say it's true. If they brought in "a lot of new fans", and sold less copies, it means they lost A LOT of the core fans from the first game.

So if that's true now they're in a position where they have to make a game that keeps these new fans and tries to bring back some of their core fans. Or they have to make a game that keeps going in the new direction and hope it brings in more new fans to replace the core fans they lost.

They really have a tough task with DA3.

Modifié par Aaleel, 10 août 2011 - 05:51 .

[Out to Lunch]

alex90c wrote...

And my argument is:

Quantity means nothing to me.

I'll always prefer Maria Callas to Christina Aguilera, even though Aguilera will always have higher sale numbers and more fans.

Receptions and sale numbers mean nada to me when it comes to deciding what I personally prefer.

But I never asked for your personal opinion of the game; I know you liked the game, while I strongly despise it so I'm never going to say "you should dislike the game because of reasons X, Y and Z", my argument has always been "this game sucks because of reasons X, Y and Z and I hate it as a result". Sure, I'm heavily imposing my view but I'm not asking you to change yours.

Here's the problem - the game doesn't suck because you don't like it. Most players, even the ones that have complaints on these forums, have admitted they had fun and are still playing it. Don't confuse your opinion with fact.

[billy the squid]

Atakuma wrote...

DA2 didn't need to sell as much as origins to be successful, since they obviously spent less on it than Origins.

Without figures on expenditure and revenue from EA, anything which does more than break even will be stated as commercially succesful in any PR statement to prevent dips in share price. Whether it is actually viable as a development is another matter entirely, particularly if the funds could have been used elsewhere generating a better cost to earnings ratio.

[alex90c]

Out to Lunch wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Persephone wrote...

And my argument is:

Quantity means nothing to me.

I'll always prefer Maria Callas to Christina Aguilera, even though Aguilera will always have higher sale numbers and more fans.

Receptions and sale numbers mean nada to me when it comes to deciding what I personally prefer.

But I never asked for your personal opinion of the game; I know you liked the game, while I strongly despise it so I'm never going to say "you should dislike the game because of reasons X, Y and Z", my argument has always been "this game sucks because of reasons X, Y and Z and I hate it as a result". Sure, I'm heavily imposing my view but I'm not asking you to change yours.

Here's the problem - the game doesn't suck because you don't like it. Most players, even the ones that have complaints on these forums, have admitted they had fun and are still playing it. Don't confuse your opinion with fact.

I should have been clearer, when I said "my argument has always been" I simply meant that I defend my opinion (I hate DA2) with things X, Y and Z - I know my POV isn't objectively verifiable.

Atakuma wrote...

DA2 didn't need to sell as much as origins to be successful, since they obviously spent less on it than Origins.

Of course, if the DA2 rush job will cause the franchise to tank (not saying it will ... if it does) then that short term profit they got with the game won't mean all that much.

--

Also, I chuckled at how the censoring of my first post changed with every single quoting of it

Modifié par alex90c, 10 août 2011 - 05:53 .

[Babli]

Same PR bs as usual. Nothing new here.

[Monica21]

"Maybe some of that can be attributed to some of the fans of Dragon Age: Origins who were maybe expecting a similar experience."

I never understand quotes like this. When a game is a sequel, yes, you expect it to have similar gameplay and mechanics than the original. As a player, I wish a dev would explain what this means.

Why wouldn't I expect a similar experience? Why wouldn't I expect to have Herbalism and Poison and Coercion? Those are things that help define a character and also restrict it. I can't make potions? Okay, I need to buy it or spec a companion so he or she can do it. Those are really minor consequences in a game world but they're huge when you look at it from a characterization perspective.

[Dormiglione]

I really wonder why such interviews are published. Its just marketing speak. Dragon Age 2 is commercial successful? Yes, i think so, comparing sales and time invested to program DA2, yes, i guess there was profit. Did DA2 sell more than DAO? No, its not the case.

A tremendous amount of new player came into the franchise with DA2. So, and how many new player came in the franchise with DAO, the first installment of the Dragon Age series? I guess 4.5 million copies sold, should be 4.5 million players?

Just curious, for a publisher it should be possible to query the XBOX Live database and get the information how many gamertags (players) have played DAO and DA2 (achievements should give the answer). This way Players with only DA2 achievements, are the new Player in the franchise. Just wonder, where this number published somewhere? 

[Atakuma]

alex90c wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

DA2 didn't need to sell as much as origins to be successful, since they obviously spent less on it than Origins.

Of course, if the DA2 rush job will cause the franchise to tank (not saying it will ... if it does) then that short term profit they got with the game won't mean all that much.

That's true, and this kind of patronizing PR crap is only making the hole they dug with DA2, even deeper.

[devSin]

Oh, please. You don't even have an accurate sales number for Origins. You can say 3-4 million, but is that Origins, or is that Dragon Age (Origins, Awakening, and Ultimate Edition)? And you don't have period sales for Origins, because the numbers have been fudged.

Dragon Age II shipped around 2 million copies and sold around 75% of them, near as anyone can tell. It also broke a million units much faster than Origins, by all accounts, and initial sales have more weight than lifetime sales (it's not enough to sell 3 million copies 2 years later).

Hate DA2 if you want, but stop with the nonsense. Ray said it's commercially successful, so guess what: Dragon Age II was a commercially successful product. That doesn't mean you have to like it, that doesn't mean you have to be happy about it, but you need to at least accept it.

Modifié par devSin, 10 août 2011 - 06:36 .

[alex90c]

devSin wrote...

Oh, please. You don't even have an accurate sales number for Origins. You can say 3-4 million, but is that Origins, or is that Dragon Age (Origins, Awakening, and Ultimate Edition). And you don't have period sales for Origins, because the numbers have been fudged.

Dragon Age II shipped around 2 million copies and sold around 75% of them, near as anyone can tell. It also broke a million units much faster than Origins, by all accounts, and initial sales have more weight than lifetime sales (it's not enough to sell 3 million copies 3 years later).

Hate DA2 if you want, but stop with the nonsense. Ray said it's commercially successful, so guess what: Dragon Age II was a commercially successful product.

Actually, genius I was querying the "we got lots of fans with DA2" and "people wanted an Origins 2" comments, not whether DA2 was comerically successful or not, which it is. I mean, that tends to happen when you spend a mere 16 months and 1/5 the budget of Origins in making the sequel.

[Erode_The_Soul]

The only thing that really irks me about these interviews is treating the expectation of "Origins 2" like it's silly and beyond comprehension.

I understand that they can't come out and say disparaging things about DA2 (at least, until they start marketing DA3). For one, they're still trying to drive sales. For another, anything disparaging said right now is likely to alienate the new (and old) fans of DA2. I recall how irritated I was when the devs started slagging on DAO during DA2's marketing run; I can't imagine provocing those feelings so close to a recent release and so far from a future one is a smart idea.

But pretending like it's out of the question for fans to have expected something similar to Origins when playing it's sequel is just silly. Of course that's what some people expected; no one has claimed (as far as I know) to have expected a carbon copy of Origins with a 2 slapped on it somewhere, but it's not beyond belief that some would expect the sequel to Dragon Age to not be en entire reboot of the series.

I don't like the implication that the reason some didn't recieve the game well is because they couldn't let go of Origins. While there was a lot in DA2 to like, there was an equal amount to dislike. And writing that off as gamers being afraid of change, or what-have-you, is basically burying their heads in the sand.

Again, I understand it's PR, and PR goes hand-in-hand with BS, but it's still irksome.

Modifié par Erode_The_Soul, 10 août 2011 - 06:48 .

[devSin]

alex90c wrote...

Actually, genius I was querying the "we got lots of fans with DA2" and "people wanted an Origins 2" comments, not whether DA2 was comerically successful or not, which it is. I mean, that tends to happen when you spend a mere 16 months and 1/5 the budget of Origins in making the sequel.

Guess what? It's the same thing. You cannot guess the number of Origins users with a sales figure that you can't even say is for a specific product (instead of a product family). I might account for two or three "Origins" sales, but I am not two or three fans.

Ray says they acquired new customers, so they did. They know which accounts were created with DA2 (or which did not also have Origins at the time DA2 was activated).

You may wish to suggest that they lost more than they gained (even though there's no actual evidence for this), but this doesn't seem to be a concern to them even if it were the case (if they continue to bring in more fans in the future, they certainly don't need for you to remain a fan, although all their comments in the past have tried to show that they would certainly like to keep you as one and will actively try to do so).

Modifié par devSin, 10 août 2011 - 06:50 .