220 réponses à ce sujet

[Monica21]

bEVEsthda wrote...
I don't think he ever said exactly that. He said something wordy and lengthy, from which some can infer that it cost 5 times as much. However, I interpreted the point as to be that it was impossible to sustain such a long development cycle as DA:O had. I don't see how that would be necessary though, and I can certainly sympathize with goals to shorten the cycle.

I wish I'd seen the quote, because I wonder why it would be impossible to sustain. It was what, six years and a brand new IP? That's a long time, but it's also a brand new IP. Oblivion was released in 2006 and Skyrim is going to be released this November. Bethesda probably had some idea of what TESV was going to be back in 2006, so I don't see the problem with a long development cycle, but I'll grant that Bethesda has quite a few other projects under their belt since then.

[Persephone]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Monica21 wrote...
The difference here too is that people ran out to buy a game based on their first experience and then you gave them an entirely different experience. You realize that we're talking about actual money here, right? This isn't a game where you get coppers for selling Tiger's Eye Fragments. People paid for it and it wasn't what they thought it was. Also, just FYI, the world economy is crashing, so be honest with us about what you're giving us. Some people play for escapism, and I certainly don't want to spend $60 on a game I won't like based on the expectation of a previous game when that money could just as well have been spent on gas. This isn't a movie where you feel like you can get away with spending $10 at a matinee and it's not a car you can test drive before you buy. When you buy it, too bad, it's yours.

I want to cry for my 60$. Serious, I never regretted a purchase as much as this one.

Then you are damn lucky if 60 bucks for some PC game are the purchase you regret the most in your life. And I am NOT kidding at all. I wish a PC game was what I could cry about out of buyer's remorse. Honestly...

[Zanallen]

bEVEsthda wrote...

I don't think he ever said exactly that. He said something wordy and lengthy, from which some can infer that it cost 5 times as much. However, I interpreted the point as to be that it was impossible to sustain such a long development cycle as DA:O had. I don't see how that would be necessary though, and I can certainly sympathize with goals to shorten the cycle.

He said that the costs for making a game are in keeping the development studio running and paying salaries. Then he went on to say that if DA2 took 1/5 the time to make, it would require 1/5 the profits of DA:O to break even. Which makes sense that Bioware considers DA2 a financial success.

[billy the squid]

In Exile wrote...

billy the squid wrote...
Even ball park figures of origins in statements from EA ranked it at roughly 3.8 million, I believe, in mid 2010, which were apparantly for origins only. Sales figures though do not soley dictate commercial success, which is why I have made no attempt to claim such a thing. Yet, commercial success neither deals with product equity, marketability of successors, consumer base expansion, which would be increadibly difficult to determine. As such the only reliable data they would have is revenue, which of course I would not argue over as I don't have that data. 

As to new fans coming in to replace old fans. How does the developer tell which sales are attributed to new fans and which are to the old? In doing so how does one determine if their fan base has grown.

The issue, though, is that if DA:O is not a commercial success, then DA:O fans (in a sense) are not a desirable audience. Because DA:O is not a game the company would want to make again, then fans of DA:O are not a target for the company. So losing 5,000,000 DA:O only fans, but gaining 1,000,000 DA2 fans, even if DA2 has less fans, still makes the DA2 fans "better" in the sense that they are commercially viable for the future.

Not that I buy this one bit. DA:O was clearly well received and had high expectations, and DA2 pretty clearly flubbled these based on user ratings... pretty much everywhere (including gamespot, where DA2 has favourable ratings... but not like DA:O).

Still, you can grow the business by losing 4/5th of your customers.  

Edit: Read at one's own peril, I seem to have gone off on a tangent.

I agree. Dragon age as a franchise is viable, for the moment, but it is quite a risk for a developer to take and I wouldn't think that sheading a hefty share of your market without establishing a clear new market would be the desired approach to selling an IP. 

I don't think Dragon age would be any means be considered an overwhelming commercial success, if we are attributing commercial success to only exetend to the profit margin. Although I believe that is did make a substantial profit, but without data, I couldn't really comment on this with any degree of accuracy.

Although I wouldn't think that Origins was in full scale development for 5 years, nor do I know the cost and overhead amounts and fluctuations. Hence, commercial success, is important yet it becomes more of a subsidiary issue if the product is very successful at establishing a new IP, creating potential markets and IP equity as well as brand equity, which is where Origin's strength lies.

As to a sequal in the line of DAO, the cost of IP establishment and other issues should have declined, although investment costs may have increased, if the development requires a technological overhaul. Yet, opportunity cost is likely to be important on this front. This is supposition, but say DAO2 would take 2.5-3 years to create. Is it worth investing in such a product vs the potential of creating 2 similar products in the same period? But, again more intangible aspects such as potentially damaging IP equity feed into it as well, it may have been worth the short term cost, but can the damage done to the IP be mitigated?

If the newer IPs don't make an impact then the the IP is inevitably in trouble, and it becomes more of a risk analysis of cost vs potential earnings and whether one would take such a risk. Or if the reception was particularly bad has the IP been tainted by association. This may be part of the reason in the multiplicity of sequals, the potential losses are enormous for should a new IP flounder.

As to Dragon Age 2 the perception was a shift in the market segment that the game was aimed at, and the subsequent PR statements seem to reinforce that. Personally, whilst I don't think that the plan was a complete shift to a new market segment, there appears to have been a fundamental misunderstanding of what constitutes the relevant market resulting in too broad a product to without the benefit of IP establishment in the mass market to generate appeal, but simultaneously damaging IP equity in original "RPGesque" market, which although smaller seemed to have an established consumer group.

With the transient nature of gamers regarding genres it highlights a problem. If one attempts to broaden appeal as, was the attempt in DA2 then what is the product's selling point? As consumers switch from genre to genre, is DA2 going to be able to effectively compete with other products in each segment when it is outclassed by the more focused competition with a clear competencies in different segments?

Modifié par billy the squid, 11 août 2011 - 01:26 .

[Morroian]

Monica21 wrote...

Morroian wrote...
EA gets paid for all of those copies, they are not held at retailers on consignment.

If the copies are not sold then merchants can return them.

From the research I did on this a while ago that doesn't seem to be automatic. There has to be a specific agreement to be able to do so.

[billy the squid]

Zanallen wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Without figures on expenditure and revenue from EA, anything which does more than break even will be stated as commercially succesful in any PR statement to prevent dips in share price. Whether it is actually viable as a development is another matter entirely, particularly if the funds could have been used elsewhere generating a better cost to earnings ratio.

I believe it was Gaider who said that DA:O cost around 5 times as much as DA2.

So?

We don't know the cost of DAO, revenue or profit. Nor is there any information for DA2. Profit margins are not known, neither is there any accounting for the development and IP establishment costs which DAO incurred, and is not present in DA2 cost to earnings ratio.

Saying a product is commercially or financially successful is great until one tries to sell a sequal to the same market only to find out a large portion is not quite so willing to buy it. At which point one is potentially sitting on a sunk cost if  the product can't be sold in quantities to justify the development costs, let alone the opportunity cost.

Statements of financial succes without figures as,need wider examination not because it is a lie. But, has the success out weighed the possible longterm effect on the more intangible aspects of the IP and any potential future revenue and potential increase in development cost to regain the confidence lost.

Modifié par billy the squid, 11 août 2011 - 01:44 .

[Monica21]

Morroian wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

Morroian wrote...
EA gets paid for all of those copies, they are not held at retailers on consignment.

If the copies are not sold then merchants can return them.

From the research I did on this a while ago that doesn't seem to be automatic. There has to be a specific agreement to be able to do so.

And do you think chains like Best Buy and Gamestop wouldn't have such agreements? They're not going to just sit on merchandise.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Persephone wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
I want to cry for my 60$. Serious, I never regretted a purchase as much as this one.

Then you are damn lucky if 60 bucks for some PC game are the purchase you regret the most in your life. And I am NOT kidding at all. I wish a PC game was what I could cry about out of buyer's remorse. Honestly...

Not lucky, but prudent. Until I decided to be uncharacteristically reckless.
Not that it being otherwise and you having more to cry about would make me feel any better.

[Giggles_Manically]

I still weep over the 50 dollars I lost to Spore.

[Kothoses Rothenkisal]

According to the most recent EA investor call, Dragon Age 2 sold over 2 million units, which puts it appx 1 million short of Origins as I recall.

What the good doc is saying is the message Bioware have been putting out everywhere, they are aware DA 2 was a big step back, they want to continue to evolve the RPG and they want to do something more in line with their long term fans interests.

Fact - Bioware never make the same game twice, every Bioware game has been different, so trying to second guess them at this stage is rather silly. And of course they wont trash DA 2 its their current work in progress, you wont start seeing concrete assertions of what will change for DA 3 for atleast another year or so yet (hopefully)

[TheMadCat]

Kothoses Rothenkisal wrote...

According to the most recent EA investor call, Dragon Age 2 sold over 2 million units, which puts it appx 1 million short of Origins as I recall.

What the good doc is saying is the message Bioware have been putting out everywhere, they are aware DA 2 was a big step back, they want to continue to evolve the RPG and they want to do something more in line with their long term fans interests.

Fact - Bioware never make the same game twice, every Bioware game has been different, so trying to second guess them at this stage is rather silly. And of course they wont trash DA 2 its their current work in progress, you wont start seeing concrete assertions of what will change for DA 3 for atleast another year or so yet (hopefully)

BioWare's games have all been rather similar actually, they all follow a similar style and pattern. Technology has allowed them to evolve the style over time and make it a bit more robust, but beyond that Mass Effect 2 really doesn't have that many stylistic differences from a KoToR or Jade Empire.

Modifié par TheMadCat, 11 août 2011 - 02:41 .

[IanPolaris]

Kothoses Rothenkisal wrote...

According to the most recent EA investor call, Dragon Age 2 sold over 2 million units, which puts it appx 1 million short of Origins as I recall.

What the good doc is saying is the message Bioware have been putting out everywhere, they are aware DA 2 was a big step back, they want to continue to evolve the RPG and they want to do something more in line with their long term fans interests.

Fact - Bioware never make the same game twice, every Bioware game has been different, so trying to second guess them at this stage is rather silly. And of course they wont trash DA 2 its their current work in progress, you wont start seeing concrete assertions of what will change for DA 3 for atleast another year or so yet (hopefully)

False.  That report was full of marketing PR and any experienced investor knows it.  DA2 did NOT sell 2 million even according to that report.  It sold in two million which for investor reports means that 2 million were shipped.  Bioware is very likely going to have to eat a half-million of those in returns (which they will put as a dead loss cost in a future earnings report) to make their PR look better.

-Polaris

[AloraKast]

*sigh*

Haven't read the interview, nor do I plan to. Why? Because I have come to expect that whenever the topic of DA2 comes up in an official interview, the maddening and red haze inducing PR speak is sure to be prevalent.

Yes, there probably is a very good reason for existence and use of PR... although I am well aware I cannot fully appreciate it. And I find that (with DA2 especially) it's SOOO incredibly easy to misinterpret what's being said or to take that PR speak in a wrong way. And judging by the... passion in this thread... yeah, think we're doing great in that respect.

*sigh* Look, I have no idea why Bioware insist on making the blood boil, especially since they must know by now that the message they are trying to project and the message the fans are receiving are actually two very different messages indeed. Wish the PR department would get the memo already. Perhaps it is best to avoid these kinds of interviews for a while longer, because they seem to only add fuel to the fire that was in the process of simmering down (or so I thought).

Personally I (looking for a proper word) er... am not fond of PR at all and really wish for that open and frank dialogue we glimpsed not even a week ago. I can also appreciate the level of love and devotion that DA:O evokes and the current message and direction of DA2 and the franchise not jiving with that... and hence the passionate, fired up, ready to do battle to the death responses. Hey, I was in the same boat when I read those kinds of interviews myself...

eh, think I'm just gonna go curl up and dream of my cozy version of the Hanged Man with its relaxing and welcoming atmosphere where we all (community and dev alike) can come together, put our feet up, nurse a few drinks and interact on that human level.

Apologies for the intrusion, carry on warriors, carry on. *sigh*

Modifié par AloraKast, 11 août 2011 - 03:07 .

[Kothoses Rothenkisal]

TheMadCat wrote...

Kothoses Rothenkisal wrote...

According to the most recent EA investor call, Dragon Age 2 sold over 2 million units, which puts it appx 1 million short of Origins as I recall.

What the good doc is saying is the message Bioware have been putting out everywhere, they are aware DA 2 was a big step back, they want to continue to evolve the RPG and they want to do something more in line with their long term fans interests.

Fact - Bioware never make the same game twice, every Bioware game has been different, so trying to second guess them at this stage is rather silly. And of course they wont trash DA 2 its their current work in progress, you wont start seeing concrete assertions of what will change for DA 3 for atleast another year or so yet (hopefully)

BioWare's games have all been rather similar actually, they all follow a similar style and pattern. Technology has allowed them to evolve the style over time and make it a bit more robust, but beyond that Mass Effect 2 really doesn't have that many stylistic differences from a KoToR or Jade Empire.

The core game play elements have been very different in all their games.  You can not honestly tell me KoToR felt like Jade Empire or that JE felt Like DA:O to play?  Yes there were similarities but they were very different games in the gameplay and mechanical sense.



I think the point that a lot of people are making in this thread though is that its getting really really annoying and confrontation provoking to constantly hear how its OUR FAULT that we did not like Dragon age 2, that WE Can not appreciate its brilliance or its magnifence, its typical Emperors new clothes syndrome.  Its not our fault that DA 2 was a let down guys, thats your fault.  We are your core audience that bought all your games up untill now, please stop insulting us in interviews. 

If you must give DA 2 interviews try saying something like "In Dragon age 2 we tried something different and for a lot of our Core fans it simply didnt work, so going forward we want to get back to focusing on the aspects of gamign that built us the loyal fanbase we have"

Stop caring more about the dollar you dont have, otherwise you will start losing the one you do have.

In return guys lets cut them a bit of slack too, DA 2 is still a going concern, they are going to be restricted in what can and can not be said at this point and I dont think we will start hearing about whats going to change for the next episode for quite some time.

Modifié par Kothoses Rothenkisal, 11 août 2011 - 03:34 .

[In Exile]

Gunderic wrote...
It did get a lot of DLC and an expansion pack, so I do believe there was a significant amount of interest/demand for the game.

To be frank, I'm not expecting Dragon Age 2 to get the same treatment.

Neither am I, if only because I think Bioware wants to bury DA2 in a deep, dark corner and forget they ever made it (a little like NWN). Though I hope against hope for a HoTU like expansion that turns **** to great.

Dragoonlordz wrote...
Question, whats stopping those 1million vanishing when DA3 hits?

Absolutely nothing.

If you already lose the 5, that 1 that was counting on could be a sign of decline for example imagine that 1 next time around becomes 300k which may end up getting worse.

You're thinking about it wrong. You didn't lose 5. You didn't care about the 5 to start, because even if you got them all back, you'd lose $$ making a game for them. So you write them off, and just aim for the 1. Then you need to find out what that 1 liked, and see what you can do to increase/retain their fanbase.

All of this is presuming DA:O lost money, which is about the only explanation I can come up with for Bioware's DA2 aside from sheer basly aristic integrity.

Doesn't mean that will happen but it's not out of realms of possiblity given decrease in sales between first and second which means less fans buying/not enough new ones created to replace, it's possible it could become a trend.

Without knowing what the actual sales goals of DA2 were, who knows? I don't know if Bioware hoped to keep all DA:O fans, but I also don't know if Bioware thought they'd lose 1/2 with the shift to DA2.

[Realmzmaster]

Interviews are PR events. I cannot believe that gamers on this forum would expect the good doctor to say anything negative about a product that is still selling. Not going to happen. The purpose of marketing is to sell the product. The purpose of PR is to sell the product and if necessary do damage control.
Those who hate DA2 are not going to be satisfied unless the good doctor gets up and says. DA2 was a terrible game and we betrayed the fans. I am so sorry. I will get the head honchos at EA to refund your money. I will have the entire DA staff hand in their resignations in a gesture of goodwill to the fans.

Guess what? Never going to happen. The best you are going to get is what has already been said. We made mistakes. We will learn from them. But, in our opinion and some of our fan base we did some good things.

Bioware is responsible for the product. The fans will give their feedback. Bioware will listen, but that does not mean that everything or anything the fan base wants will be implemented.

Bioware experimented with DA2. Bioware experimented with DAO, when many gamers wanted Baldur's Gate III. I remember DAO being blasted for not being the true spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate.

DAO was an experiment just like DA2.

[Kothoses Rothenkisal]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Interviews are PR events. I cannot believe that gamers on this forum would expect the good doctor to say anything negative about a product that is still selling. Not going to happen. The purpose of marketing is to sell the product. The purpose of PR is to sell the product and if necessary do damage control.
Those who hate DA2 are not going to be satisfied unless the good doctor gets up and says. DA2 was a terrible game and we betrayed the fans. I am so sorry. I will get the head honchos at EA to refund your money. I will have the entire DA staff hand in their resignations in a gesture of goodwill to the fans.

Guess what? Never going to happen. The best you are going to get is what has already been said. We made mistakes. We will learn from them. But, in our opinion and some of our fan base we did some good things.

Bioware is responsible for the product. The fans will give their feedback. Bioware will listen, but that does not mean that everything or anything the fan base wants will be implemented.

Bioware experimented with DA2. Bioware experimented with DAO, when many gamers wanted Baldur's Gate III. I remember DAO being blasted for not being the true spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate.

DAO was an experiment just like DA2.

Pretty much this to be honest.  We wont hear anything except them trying to be positive about it for quite some time.

I just wish they would find a different way than they currently are because it comes across as though its our intellect that is being questioned, as I said, Emperors new clothes style, only no one is believing the clothes are real any more guys.

[In Exile]

billy the squid wrote...
I agree. Dragon age as a franchise is viable, for the moment, but it is quite a risk for a developer to take and I wouldn't think that sheading a hefty share of your market without establishing a clear new market would be the desired approach to selling an IP.  

I think DA2 was a gamble on ME's success, and generally a reflection of a new philosophical direction at Bioware (hence why Mr. Knowles left as a lead on good terms). I think Bioware never expected the backlash, and was thinking it would all come out like ME2: grumbling from some corners, and a lot of heavy criticism on the forum, but overall critical acclaim and a set direction for the franchise.

But I think Bioware underestimated just how much vitrol there would be over the dramatic changes to DA:O's design (like VO'd PC, no origins), then added some incomprehensible features they knew failed with their audience on top of that (recycled environments, wtf?) and you had the perfect storm that was DA2. 

I don't think Dragon age would be any means be considered an overwhelming commercial success, if we are attributing commercial success to only exetend to the profit margin. Although I believe that is did make a substantial profit, but without data, I couldn't really comment on this with any degree of accuracy.

Oh, I absolutely bet it made money. But I'd bet the development window is the same as and it's profit margin is less than ME1+ME2, and that's what motivated the shift from a business side. Whereas on a design side, Bioware already sees interactive and engaging story as their cornerstone, and VO + cinematics (both of which were refined in DA2) were their conerstone features. 

Though my other theory is that Bioware just assumed DA:O wouldn't sell well (hence the philosophical difference with Mr. Knowles early on + the marketing campaign for DA:O) and DA2's reinvention was already greenlight before the sales #s came in, then Bioware went into reasoning that DA2 wouldn't be received any worse than ME2, etc. etc.

Although I wouldn't think that Origins was in full scale development for 5 years, nor do I know the cost and overhead amounts and fluctuations. Hence, commercial success, is important yet it becomes more of a subsidiary issue if the product is very successful at establishing a new IP, creating potential markets and IP equity as well as brand equity, which is where Origin's strength lies.

ME1+ME2 were in developed (since annoucement) for about 4 1/2 years, and I wouldn't be surprised that DA:O took about the same time to get off the ground, since we can also say that ME1's initial dev. time was all hard work. 

I agree with you re: building the brand, and this is why I think (business wise) Bioware ought to look at folding the DA brand and starting fresh. 

As to a sequal in the line of DAO, the cost of IP establishment and other issues should have declined, although investment costs may have increased, if the development requires a technological overhaul. Yet, opportunity cost is likely to be important on this front. This is supposition, but say DAO2 would take 2.5-3 years to create. Is it worth investing in such a product vs the potential of creating 2 similar products in the same period? But, again more intangible aspects such as potentially damaging IP equity feed into it as well, it may have been worth the short term cost, but can the damage done to the IP be mitigated?

I agree with you entirely, and since I've made this point before, I just need to add that it almost brings a tear to my eye to see someone actually understand what I'm trying to say. 

I think Bioware radically underestimated the blow to the IP's equity with DA2, as I said above. 

If the newer IPs don't make an impact then the the IP is inevitably in trouble, and it becomes more of a risk analysis of cost vs potential earnings and whether one would take such a risk. Or if the reception was particularly bad has the IP been tainted by association. This may be part of the reason in the multiplicity of sequals, the potential losses are enormous for should a new IP flounder.

Based on reception, with legacy as a follow-up, I think the IP is very much dead in the water. DA3 might be a last hurrah, but without a lot of positive response to it, I think we won't see any more DA games. 

As to Dragon Age 2 the perception was a shift in the market segment that the game was aimed at, and the subsequent PR statements seem to reinforce that. Personally, whilst I don't think that the plan was a complete shift to a new market segment, there appears to have been a fundamental misunderstanding of what constitutes the relevant market resulting in too broad a product to without the benefit of IP establishment in the mass market to generate appeal, but simultaneously damaging IP equity in original "RPGesque" market, which although smaller seemed to have an established consumer group.

I think Bioware's real problem is that they were too honest. 

Let's look at CDProjeckt for a second. TW2 was a radical redesign of TW1 for the consoles. The combat, the inventory and the interface all was reworked so that it would work better with a controller. In many cases, this meant departures from RPG conventions. The end goal was a console title, because the market share of consoles and the overall return is better. 

But then the narrative wasn't: "Let's expand RPGs!" It was "PCs are superior, and here's how we'll make the game hardcore, etc." It was all the right things, and all the things the RPG/PC crowd would love to hear.

And then TW2 went and will be ported to consoles.

In all fairness, the RPG market is very fickle and marketing to them requires a lot of care. 

With the transient nature of gamers regarding genres it highlights a problem. If one attempts to broaden appeal as, was the attempt in DA2 then what is the product's selling point? As consumers switch from genre to genre, is DA2 going to be able to effectively compete with other products in each segment when it is outclassed by the more focused competition with a clear competencies in different segments?

I think you essentially have to market the game to the core, then talk around them, e.g. "Our game is SUPER INTENSE MURDER DEATH HARD.... but also has a casual mode that we've worked super hard at making fun, accesible, and interesting." 

[IanPolaris]

Kothoses Rothenkisal wrote...
Pretty much this to be honest.  We wont hear anything except them trying to be positive about it for quite some time.

I just wish they would find a different way than they currently are because it comes across as though its our intellect that is being questioned, as I said, Emperors new clothes style, only no one is believing the clothes are real any more guys.

Agreed. To put it rather crudly, no one likes to be peed on and then told it's raining.

-Polaris

Edited for clarity

Modifié par IanPolaris, 11 août 2011 - 05:19 .

[Monica21]

In Exile wrote...
Based on reception, with legacy as a follow-up, I think the IP is very much dead in the water. DA3 might be a last hurrah, but without a lot of positive response to it, I think we won't see any more DA games. 

I really hope this isn't the case and that we see the right mix of elements in DA3. I really like the world they're creating. I'm fascinated by the history of Thedas, the dark secrets, the Imperium, the treatment of mages, and none of that has changed because of DA2. The discussion thread in the spoilers forum about the Primeval Thaig is evidence that the world they're creating is incredibly compelling. I just want the game to be just as compelling. 

[TheMadCat]

Kothoses Rothenkisal wrote...

The core game play elements have been very different in all their games.  You can not honestly tell me KoToR felt like Jade Empire or that JE felt Like DA:O to play?  Yes there were similarities but they were very different games in the gameplay and mechanical sense.

Sure I can, quite easily. With post D&D Bioware cinematics, dialogue, level design, artistic style, character progression, basic combat format (Meaning party based), even the character and plot are all excuted in a very similar manner, with technology, added cash, and experience allowing them to do just a little more then they did in the previous iteration. There have been some differences between each game, the way combat is done being the main one, the skill system being the other. But yeah, BioWare has been using the same basic style since they did KoToR. 

I think the point that a lot of people are making in this thread though is that its getting really really annoying and confrontation provoking to constantly hear how its OUR FAULT that we did not like Dragon age 2, that WE Can not appreciate its brilliance or its magnifence, its typical Emperors new clothes syndrome.  Its not our fault that DA 2 was a let down guys, thats your fault.  We are your core audience that bought all your games up untill now, please stop insulting us in interviews. 

I agree with that, my biggest problem with DA2 wasn't with DA2, but BioWare's reaction to the criticism of DA2. This head in the sand attitude I keep seeing in these interviews and occasionaly spot on the board. I don't know if it's a necessary PR ploy or if it's sincerly how they feel, but it is disheartening to see such smugness from people ironcially complaining about smugness. BioWare has one of the most fiercly loyal fanbases in this industry and they've handled their RPG "evolutions" in the past. When a portion of them are ticked off, it's not because they're weren't willing to adapt. 

[TheMadCat]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Interviews are PR events. I cannot believe that gamers on this forum would expect the good doctor to say anything negative about a product that is still selling. Not going to happen. The purpose of marketing is to sell the product. The purpose of PR is to sell the product and if necessary do damage control.
Those who hate DA2 are not going to be satisfied unless the good doctor gets up and says. DA2 was a terrible game and we betrayed the fans. I am so sorry. I will get the head honchos at EA to refund your money. I will have the entire DA staff hand in their resignations in a gesture of goodwill to the fans.

Guess what? Never going to happen. The best you are going to get is what has already been said. We made mistakes. We will learn from them. But, in our opinion and some of our fan base we did some good things.

Bioware is responsible for the product. The fans will give their feedback. Bioware will listen, but that does not mean that everything or anything the fan base wants will be implemented.

Bioware experimented with DA2. Bioware experimented with DAO, when many gamers wanted Baldur's Gate III. I remember DAO being blasted for not being the true spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate.

DAO was an experiment just like DA2.

I don't think anyone really has a problem with BioWare postively promoting DA2, I think the problem people have is when questions of the criticism come up the default resposne is to point to some vocal minority that just couldn't adapt to or handle DA2's awesomeness. There are better ways to handle criticism and actual faults then simply deflecting the blame. 

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

It must be good to be CEO. Thanks OP for the link. The interview was both predictable and a little nausiating...but I'm sure fans of DA 2 or Bioware employees will agree with everything said (which is also expected).

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

I think Dr. Muzyka is a pretty cool guy. eh divides the fan base and doesnt afraid of anything.

[Saintthanksgiving]

Y'know, if you guys are gonna throw a Torches And Pitchfork party... you could at least have the common decency to invite me before it got 4 pages long.

as far as that interview is concerned, Bioware is still trying to turn a profit on DA2, so I dont have a problem with them going out and telling anyone who will listen that DA2 isnt as bad as people (ME) have said it is.

As always though, I have a HUGE problem with their continued use of the DA2 isnt ORIGINS 2 talking point.  I think it is being done as a personal insult to ME at this point.  There can be no other rational explanation for their insistence on repeating this nonsense, other than they know it makes my blood boil and shakes me to the very foundations of my sanity.

Never before in history, from the first fish grown legs, to the last babe born of woman, has a greater insult been thrust upon a more innocent and loyal victim. 

Never before has disrepect been so thoroughly and unrelentingly heaped upon those whose only sin was to trust in the goodness and honesty of a friend.

Never before has anyone so obviously urinated on another's leg while telling him it was raining.

and never before.... has anyone.... ever.... tried to blame an angry fan's dissapointment in a Sequel.... on that fans unrealistc expectation that it was... in fact.... a sequel.

Some measured the cost of DA2 in Dollars... some measured it in pounds... Bioware measured it in thirty pieces of Silver.

EA.... BIOWARE.... a plague on both your houses.