51 réponses à ce sujet

[GreyWardenRjak]

I didn't kill him. I let him go because I thought maybe later he'd be important, which pulled me right out of the game. Sorry but this is inferior design because in making that decision I'm now thinking "wow Bioware wouldn't have hired a better voice actor had implemented a more involved dialog tree if this guy wasn't important in some way".



I SHOULDNT be having to consider Bioware's casting decisions to make an important choice in a role playing game. At that point in the game all the interface told me was that the specialization hadn't "unlocked" yet, so I figured that if I just kept playing it would come eventually.



Now I have two choices, load up a save 25 saves ago and redo Haven, Denerim and Warden's Peak, or quit.



Bioware made the wrong choice in their decision tree with me on this one...

[GreyWardenRjak]

Well DAMMIT DAMMIT DAMMIT.



They did such a GREAT friggin' job otherwise on this game I just loaded up the save and I guess I'm redoing a bunch of stuff.



Damn them anyway.



Maybe this time I'll avoid shapeshifting for Morrigan

[Varenus Luckmann]

It's an RPG. Decisions matter. At least somewhat.

Deal with it.

[sylkwyrm1]

you could reload the save get to camp chat him up give him every gift and possibly sleep with him, unlock the spec and then go back to your other save game, once it's unlocked it says unlocked for all chars

[GrapeCandy]

Atleast it is more obvious than learning the Reaver spec.



But to Reavers credit, it is so awesome it keeps the retards from touching it.

[JfBorrego]

I heard someone describe this game as an "On the Rails" CRPG and I think it fits PERFECTLY.



At least 50% of the dialogue choices have zero impact on the story - it's just forced filler to make you read/listen to the story.



The rest have minor impact since Bioware has a pretty rigid plotline that you're pretty much just along for on the ride.



This post was helpful though since I did not know NPCs unlocked professions. Knowing that I can grab a money hack and just buy them now and be done with it.



The thought of having to not only figure out which character can teach what (some sound obvious, others not so) but basically having to engage in a form of "cybering" with them in order to learnt he skills is downright creepy.

[sylkwyrm1]

you don't -have- to sleep with anyone to unlock thier spec, zev is an easy lay and doing so gives lots of approval, since that suggestion was centred around simply unlocking it as fast as possible before going to another save in which you killed him i just mentioned it, as a side note you don't need a money hack, you can save, buy the tome and then reload, spec stays unlocked and your char never spent the cash.

[The Dead Milkman]

GreyWardenRjak wrote...

I'm a level 11 rogue, waiting patiently for the assassination specialization to unlock.

For 4 levels now.

And it's unlocked by Zevram?

...really...

that guy from 25 saves ago?

Oh I know there's some manual that unlocks after some landsmeet in another 10 levels .... but what you're saying is that the specialization was seriously buried in dialog with what seemed like an incedental footnote character of zero consequence.


....wow.....

I've never had such enjoyment of a game come to such a complete screeching halt.

Alright ... enough of this crap ... on to AC2...

Because you're an idiot right? How could you think he's a footnote when you see a cutscene of him and loghain while you're nowhere to be found. I hate Zevran and his stupid accent and stupid face/hair. But he's a central character and guess what, recruitable! maybe you should think about **** before you go and kill everyone all the time.

[Valcutio]

LOL. That's what you get for killing everybody you meet. This thread makes me grin.

[GreyWardenRjak]

I went back, played through the Zevram encounter again, and you're absolutely right. The first time through I must've been so focused on the question of WHEN DO I GET THE SPEC that I missed the friggin opportunity right in front of me. It couldn't have been more obvious gong through it again.



I'm retarded.



My punishment of replaying three major game sections fits the crime.

[Dalereth]

I kept Zevran alive assuming he'd be the one to teach me the spec, but was a bit annoyed I had to lavish him with gifts for him to do it. He won't teach it because he doesn't want to be actively hunted, yet I would have been more than happy to change his calculus on that simply be offering to kill him on the spot instead...



Ahh well. No big deal.



And speaking of the Reaver spec, where *is* it?

[frokenscheim]

Dalereth wrote...

I kept Zevran alive assuming he'd be the one to teach me the spec, but was a bit annoyed I had to lavish him with gifts for him to do it. He won't teach it because he doesn't want to be actively hunted, yet I would have been more than happy to change his calculus on that simply be offering to kill him on the spot instead...

Ahh well. No big deal.

And speaking of the Reaver spec, where *is* it?

Pour the dragon blood in the ashes, and Kolgrim will teach you.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

TheSmilingDude wrote...

My biggest gripe is the fact they stay unlocked for subsequent playthroughs, this really makes unlocking them in the first place seem rather stupid...

See, I rather liked that mechanic. Sure it does cheapen the whole "you must unlock them to begin with", but it gives a good reason to replay and it helps reduce a lot of the tedium of getting any particular specialization. And really, once a player's played through a few times, they'll know how to unlock all the specializations anyway, and if they want a particular build, they'll rush to unlock them as soon as convenient. 

[Chris_Really_Rocks]

You care THAT much about 4 talents? Man . . . that's obsession.

[Dalereth]

Cpl_Facehugger wrote...

TheSmilingDude wrote...

My biggest gripe is the fact they stay unlocked for subsequent playthroughs, this really makes unlocking them in the first place seem rather stupid...

See, I rather liked that mechanic. Sure it does cheapen the whole "you must unlock them to begin with", but it gives a good reason to replay and it helps reduce a lot of the tedium of getting any particular specialization. And really, once a player's played through a few times, they'll know how to unlock all the specializations anyway, and if they want a particular build, they'll rush to unlock them as soon as convenient. 

I agree here. The thought of having to unlock these on every playthrough sounds tedious and forces you to make choices you may not want to make on that run.

[The Merciful]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

It's an RPG. Decisions matter. At least somewhat.
Deal with it.

Then all games are RPGs. After all, you can decide let your opponent to win over you, you can decide to let those AI controlled enemies kill you. Decisions matter, you know. Too bad not all decisions are interesting or meaningful.

ps. Sarcasm truly is the lowest form for of wit - all one has to do is to be mean. Deal with it.

[Maria Caliban]

GreyWardenRjak wrote...

I went back, played through the Zevram encounter again, and you're absolutely right. The first time through I must've been so focused on the question of WHEN DO I GET THE SPEC that I missed the friggin opportunity right in front of me. It couldn't have been more obvious gong through it again.

I'm retarded.

My punishment of replaying three major game sections fits the crime.

Nowwaitasec. That's a bit harsh, don'tcha think? It's an RPG; if it's a good one, you're bound to miss some content on the first try.

You are not an idiot, or retarded, or whatever. I'm glad you have your assassination unlocked. It's one of the best for rogues.

[Vilegrim]

GreyWardenRjak wrote...

I'm a level 11 rogue, waiting patiently for the assassination specialization to unlock.

For 4 levels now.

And it's unlocked by Zevram?

...really...

that guy from 25 saves ago?

Oh I know there's some manual that unlocks after some landsmeet in another 10 levels .... but what you're saying is that the specialization was seriously buried in dialog with what seemed like an incedental footnote character of zero consequence.


....wow.....

I've never had such enjoyment of a game come to such a complete screeching halt.

Alright ... enough of this crap ... on to AC2...

all specs apart from ranger are unlocked by in game actions, wether with your party members, or in interactions with NPCs.

[kormesios]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

It's an RPG. Decisions matter. At least somewhat.
Deal with it.

A slightly bogus argument on this one, since the "unlock in one game, have it unlocked forever" approach to specializations means the unlocking isn't "really" part of the RPG experience.

I'm on the fence about this one.  If you are RPG'ing the type of person who wants to be an assassin, then some character might be more tempted to recruit him in your party.  Or, you might not be sqeuamish about killing enemies.

[newcomplex]

If you really want it, go back to a save before zev, quickly unlock it (its mad easy, it requires like 30 approval rating).



Its not bad design, you people are missing the entire ****ing point of the game. Its a traditional Role playing game, in which a dungeon master, (bioware) trys to tell a cohesive and impactful story that is impacted by player choices. Its story driven gameplay, where every choice has its consequences. This is one of them. Killing zevran instead of showing mercy will lead to consequences down the road.

[Taerda]

I've yet to get Gwynn to teach me to be a Spirit Healer. I've gotten her relations up into the 90s and she still is quiet as a church mouse. *sigh* I refuse to pay 12 gold for the book, so it is my own obstantinity that vexes me, I guess.

Modifié par Taerda, 22 novembre 2009 - 04:06 .

[hankmurphy]

i did the same thing. it did NOT ruin the game for me. zevran could have mentioned that before i killed him, though.

[kormesios]

newcomplex wrote...

If you really want it, go back to a save before zev, quickly unlock it (its mad easy, it requires like 30 approval rating).

Its not bad design, you people are missing the entire ****ing point of the game. Its a traditional Role playing game, in which a dungeon master, (bioware) trys to tell a cohesive and impactful story that is impacted by player choices. Its story driven gameplay, where every choice has its consequences. This is one of them. Killing zevran instead of showing mercy will lead to consequences down the road.

Except your own example shows how this particular example is *not* a choice/consequence thing.  You can choose to have both the specialization unlocked and Zev killed, because of this weird unlock-once design. 

I don't understand the point of it, personally.  But it's certainly not role-playing.  Role-playing is where a *character* makes a choice and suffers the consequences.  Here, by design, the player gets the consequences regardless of the choice  the current character has made.  Bizarre.

[Sarethus]

Taerda wrote...

I've yet to get Gwynn to teach me to be a Spirit Healer. I've gotten her relations up into the 90s and she still is quiet as a church mouse. *sigh* I refuse to pay 12 gold for the book, so it is my own obstantinity that vexes me, I guess.

Sadly Wynn probably can't teach spirit healer. The book is the only way.

Second Hand Info below:
 I read on the forums that a developer stated that Wynn had learn her Spirit healing by an unconventional means/path and could not teach it.

[GreyWardenRjak]

I'm actually enjoying replaying and making different decisions. Forgot about half the stuff I had done like the back alleys and abandoned building in Denerim.



Excited for Zev to finally cough up the damn spec now