39 réponses à ce sujet

[dbmccart]

I'm sure it's no where as easy as it sounds, but Shale is a bit short for a Golem. Can Shale at least be made as large as Sten?

[Zehnn]

She actually describes why she's as small as she is in a bit of dialogue. I haven't even been able to touch the toolset yet because of work, so I can't really help you. I will, however, bump your post, free of charge.

[dbmccart]

Yeah Shale was chiseled down by the previous owner, but still I would at least like Shale to be taller then my guy. Thanks for the bump.

[Gralamin]

Shale was originally shrunk because she was too large to fit through door-ways.

Regardless, this is likely a modeling issue, so I cannot help you. It probably only involves extracting a model, scaling it, exporting it into an override directory, and playing.

[dbmccart]

I would believe that if Shale was 10 feet tall like it claimed, but 6-7 feet tall shouldn't cause any problems. I mean look at Sten he's tall and can fit through doors just fine. Also Shale is an it, Golems are genderless regardless of the sex of the person who was used to make them. They lack a reproductive system of any kind and therefore they cannot have a gender.

[Zehnn]

dbmccart wrote...

I would believe that if Shale was 10 feet tall like it claimed, but 6-7 feet tall shouldn't cause any problems. I mean look at Sten he's tall and can fit through doors just fine. Also Shale is an it, Golems are genderless regardless of the sex of the person who was used to make them. They lack a reproductive system of any kind and therefore they cannot have a gender.

That's what she said.

No, seriously. Shale does say something to that effect at some point.

[Adinos]

I have just started experimenting a bit with rescaling models, but it has been limited to uniform scaling of a few static (non-animated models). I must admit I'm not entirely sure what will happen if I try to scale one of the animated models - strange things might happen regarding the animations.



I'll try making a cub-sized version of one of the bears and see what happens in-game.

[Valtonis]

dbmccart wrote...

.....Golems are genderless regardless of the sex of the person who was used to make them. They lack a reproductive system of any kind and therefore they cannot have a gender.

traditionally and physically that is true. but in DAO they are made with souls from dwarves so they are the same gender as the soul which is used

[dbmccart]

Valtonis wrote...

dbmccart wrote...

.....Golems are genderless regardless of the sex of the person who was used to make them. They lack a reproductive system of any kind and therefore they cannot have a gender.

traditionally and physically that is true. but in DAO they are made with souls from dwarves so they are the same gender as the soul which is used

Well I can remember exactly what is said but Zehnn is right, at some point there if you talk to Shale it says something to the exact effect of what I said. Retaining memories doesn't determine ones gender. Regardless of the situation, giving an inanimate object a soul doesn't make it male or female. This plays true to real life and in Dragon Age. There are human beings that do not have proper genders and they retain their souls, so what did that do for them? Also souls don't have a gender. Anyways back to the subject on hand.

Modifié par dbmccart, 23 novembre 2009 - 04:36 .

[Gralamin]

dbmccart wrote...

Valtonis wrote...

dbmccart wrote...

.....Golems are genderless regardless of the sex of the person who was used to make them. They lack a reproductive system of any kind and therefore they cannot have a gender.

traditionally and physically that is true. but in DAO they are made with souls from dwarves so they are the same gender as the soul which is used

Well I can remember exactly what is said but Zehnn is right, at some point there if you talk to Shale it says something to the exact effect of what I said. Retaining memories doesn't determine ones gender. Regardless of the situation, giving an inanimate object a soul doesn't make it male or female. This plays true to real life and in Dragon Age. There are human beings that do not have proper genders and they retain their souls, so what did that do for them? Also souls don't have a gender. Anyways back to the subject on hand.

That was quite metaphysical and deep for a while there.

[reece22345]

dbmccart wrote...

.....Golems are genderless regardless of the sex of the person who was used to make them. They lack a reproductive system of any kind and therefore they cannot have a gender.

Well I can remember exactly what is said but Zehnn is right, at some point there if you talk to Shale it says something to the exact effect of what I said. Retaining memories doesn't determine ones gender. Regardless of the situation, giving an inanimate object a soul doesn't make it male or female. This plays true to real life and in Dragon Age. There are human beings that do not have proper genders and they retain their souls, so what did that do for them? Also souls don't have a gender. Anyways back to the subject on hand.

Well of course, if you offer an irrefutable argument that has no basis for qualitative rebuttal then yes, we would just engage in a frivolous, circular argument that just boils down to one's opinion.

Of course one is entitled to their opinion but nonetheless....you are wrong. Your argument that people in real life that do not have "proper genders" is both frivolous and inaccurate. People may be "gender confused" or their psychological gender may be different to their phenotypic one. Nevertheless, people are not "lacking" in gender and a person, given enough time and adequate personal growth opportunity, associate themselves with a particular gender.

Also of note is the bold statement that an inanimate object can not possess a gender. True in itself, but Shale is no longer "inanimate". Thus, it's entirely plausible that a gender could develop, especially considering that Shale can identify itself, engage in higher-level thinking and can communicate. 

The distinction of "possessing male/female genitalia" determining whether one is male or female in some sense, is completely ridiculous. The obvious argument you haven't considered is if a male is involved in some accident that results in total loss of all reproductive genitalia, is that person no longer a male and has no associated gender? Thus, the fact that Shale has no obvious "humanoid" genitalia does not necessarily imply Shale has no gender. If anything, the fact that Shale's soul is female would impart some influence over the cognitive quality of her brain. But again, the influence of a soul on the outcome of one's gender isn't determinable.  The statement "soul's don't have a gender" is once again, a ridiculous notion sprouted by someone who hasn't adequately thought of the premise of their statement.

At best you can say Shale has not yet "identified" itself with a gender, but if soul has an influence on the decision then it would be more likely Shale would be female. Again, the lack of humanoid external genitalia has no influence on the outcome of the decision and unless the writer specifically states that in the Dragon Age universe, X scenario is the case, we will most likely not know.

Modifié par reece22345, 23 novembre 2009 - 07:46 .

[dbmccart]

reece22345 wrote...

dbmccart wrote...

.....Golems are genderless regardless of the sex of the person who was used to make them. They lack a reproductive system of any kind and therefore they cannot have a gender.

Well I can remember exactly what is said but Zehnn is right, at some point there if you talk to Shale it says something to the exact effect of what I said. Retaining memories doesn't determine ones gender. Regardless of the situation, giving an inanimate object a soul doesn't make it male or female. This plays true to real life and in Dragon Age. There are human beings that do not have proper genders and they retain their souls, so what did that do for them? Also souls don't have a gender. Anyways back to the subject on hand.

Well of course, if you offer an irrefutable argument that has no basis for qualitative rebuttal then yes, we would just engage in a frivolous, circular argument that just boils down to one's opinion.

Of course one is entitled to their opinion but nonetheless....you are wrong. Your argument that people in real life that do not have "proper genders" is both frivolous and inaccurate. People may be "gender confused" or their psychological gender may be different to their phenotypic one. Nevertheless, people are not "lacking" in gender and a person, given enough time and adequate personal growth opportunity, associate themselves with a particular gender.

Also of note is the bold statement that an inanimate object can not possess a gender. True in itself, but Shale is no longer "inanimate". Thus, it's entirely plausible that a gender could develop, especially considering that Shale can identify itself, engage in higher-level thinking and can communicate. 

The distinction of "possessing male/female genitalia" determining whether one is male or female in some sense, is completely ridiculous. The obvious argument you haven't considered is if a male is involved in some accident that results in total loss of all reproductive genitalia, is that person no longer a male and has no associated gender? Thus, the fact that Shale has no obvious "humanoid" genitalia does not necessarily imply Shale has no gender. If anything, the fact that Shale's soul is female would impart some influence over the cognitive quality of her brain. But again, the influence of a soul on the outcome of one's gender isn't determinable.  The statement "soul's don't have a gender" is once again, a ridiculous notion sprouted by someone who hasn't adequately thought of the premise of their statement.

At best you can say Shale has not yet "identified" itself with a gender, but if soul has an influence on the decision then it would be more likely Shale would be female. Again, the lack of humanoid external genitalia has no influence on the outcome of the decision and unless the writer specifically states that in the Dragon Age universe, X scenario is the case, we will most likely not know.

Your a ****ing idiot, yes there are humans without a proper gender(having features from both male and female reproductive systems). A person losing their ability to reproduce is different from having the ability to do so. Souls do not have a gender. I don't really beleive in reincarnation, but if you know anything about it a soul can be reincarnated into either a male or female body therefore they do not have a gender. Finally Shale says that whatever gender it was before is irrelevant because Shale is a Golem and doesn't have a gender, i'm not exactly sure at what point you can trigger this convo first however finish Shales memory quest and you should be able to talk to Shale about it's gender in which it replys the above. Now if you wish to argue further about this matter that is clearly stated in the game by Shale, then please do it else where this is a forum asking for Shale to be made taller not to argue if shale has a Gender or not. If you wish to have sensible conversation then do so.

Modifié par dbmccart, 23 novembre 2009 - 09:08 .

[Periodiko]

If Shale wore dresses and robolipstick, something like that robot maid from the Jetsons, people would be instantly calling Shale a "her", regardless of Shale's backstory. Gender is a social construct, what you mean to say is Shale has no sex, which is true.

Shale does not identify as male or female though, from what I remember, so technically "it" is correct.

It does indulge itself in the occasional girlish activity, like smashing darkspawn and watching it's blood fountain, admittedly.

Souls do not have a gender. I don't really beleive in reincarnation,
but if you know anything about it a soul can be reincarnated into
either a male or female body therefore they do not have a gender.

My first instinct is to make fun, but the matter of factness of this sentence is just awesome. I mean, he is right!

Modifié par Periodiko, 23 novembre 2009 - 09:14 .

[dbmccart]

Periodiko wrote...

If Shale wore dresses and robolipstick, something like that robot maid from the Jetsons, people would be instantly calling Shale a "her", regardless of Shale's backstory. Gender is a social construct, what you mean to say is Shale has no sex, which is true.

Shale does not identify as male or female though, from what I remember, so technically "it" is correct.

It does indulge itself in the occasional girlish activity, like smashing darkspawn and watching it's blood fountain, admittedly.

Souls do not have a gender. I don't really beleive in reincarnation,
but if you know anything about it a soul can be reincarnated into
either a male or female body therefore they do not have a gender.

My first instinct is to make fun, but the matter of factness of this sentence is just awesome. I mean, he is right!

 Lol take it you saw the scene i'm talking about, the fact of the matter is that Shale identifies itself as having no gender.

[slmisfit]

I remember reading that the devs scaled Shale down because it had trouble getting through doors, lol. So... I think they made it just small enough (width wise, at least) to fit through doors with no problems. If someone tries to scale Shale up, the problems the devs had might pop up again.

[Twitchmonkey]

blasphemae wrote...

I remember reading that the devs scaled Shale down because it had trouble getting through doors, lol. So... I think they made it just small enough (width wise, at least) to fit through doors with no problems. If someone tries to scale Shale up, the problems the devs had might pop up again.

Then the answer is clear, don't keep Shale small, create a mod that allows him to smash through doorways. I'll get started on it tomorrow.

[Nattfodd]

In circle of mages, when you gain the abilities to shapeshifting to mouse/spirit/Man of Fire and a "Golem" too, well this Golem is bigger than Shale and it can pass the door without problems. So scaling Shale to fit that size i think would be enough.

[Cheiron the Centaur]

Actually, as blasphemae indicated, the technical reason why Shale is as small as she is, is because there were serious graphics issues with larger party members (also including him not fitting through some doors or in some dungeon hallways). The attempts to fix those took way too much time, which is a large part of the reason why Shale was cut from the original game. Apparently, Rob Bartel and the DLC team tried very hard to get the large shale to work, but they eventually decided to shrink Shale to what she is now.

So I would not recommend changing her back to the larger size, unless you're willing to find solutions to those graphic issues as well.

PS: those larger golems may fit through some doors in the Fade, but I would not take that as an assumption that a larger golem will fit through doors everywhere...

Modifié par Cheiron the Centaur, 23 novembre 2009 - 12:14 .

[eiham]

you could give shale an ability which changed his appearance and make the default shale large while the "shifted" shale is smaller.

[reece22345]

dbmccart wrote...


Your a ****ing idiot, yes there are humans without a proper gender(having features from both male and female reproductive systems). A person losing their ability to reproduce is different from having the ability to do so. Souls do not have a gender.

For starters you seem to have become confused with your various word definitions. It's to be expected considering your...shortsightedness and overall cognitive ability. GENDER is not defined by outward physical appearance, SEX is determined by that. The people you are talking about are hemaphrodites, and the fact that they lack a distinct phenotypic sex, does not mean that the person doesn't identify themselves as either male or female.

And again your bold statement of "Souls do not have a gender" can not be substantiated. You cite an example of reincarnation, which by it's definition and the erasing of memories etc could never be proven. You can't cite unsubstantiated evidence as empirical evidence for your claim. 

Modifié par reece22345, 24 novembre 2009 - 02:20 .

[dbmccart]

Guys listen, I am not asking to have Shale scaled up to the size of a normal Golem. That would be ridiculous. Making Shale about as tall as Sten would still fit with the story. Hell it doesn't even have to be that tall, just taller then the Human characters. I mean Shale said it was originally 10 feet tall, I don't imagine Sten is anywhere that tall, he's probably like 7 foot tall. So I don't think there should be any issues with making Shale a tad bit taller.

[ashley24]

is toolset support to scale modify?

Modifié par ashley24, 30 novembre 2009 - 08:16 .

[Adinos]

It is possible to scale models with an external tool, not in the toolset itself.

[FalloutBoy]

Adinos wrote...

It is possible to scale models with an external tool, not in the toolset itself.

By the way, you never told us the results of your bear cub scaling experiment. I'm guessing there were bear parts flying all over the place when it animated.

[tazpn]

Has anyone tried adding a SCAL object where the TRSL and ROTA are in the MMH file on the GOB object? This should be a simple uniform scaling factor. This may be the simplest edit generally speaking without causing too many other problems.