177 réponses à ce sujet

[Dark83]

I've gotten well over 100 hours in playtime without beating the game.

If I hadn't kept restarting, judging purely by "areas completed" I would have finished the game at least twice. Heck, I've done the Mage Tower something like 4 times now. Forest once, Redcliffe 3... I've played through Origin stories almost 20 times.



At the very least, we should get experience as a % of damage done, and damage we cause through mind control/confusion could count as damage we do.



Ah well, I intend on using elfroots to make up for it.

[telephasic]

Yes, in other bioware games, (KOTOR IIRC) you did get XP for every kill.



However, it doesn't really bother me you don't get them in Dragon Age. Look at it this way, you pay for the bonus of help in combat by not being able to claim the XP for every kill yourself. If you really care, incapacitate the neutrals and fight the battles essentially solo.



You aren't owed every single XP in the game.

[Zenon]

I have a strategy for you: First kill all friendly NPCs using AoE spells like fireball. Then you can harvest all enemies all by yourself. Also I recommend not to use any armies in the final battle, so you have all the mobs yourself. Perhaps then you may finally be able to show off with a higher level than others.



Hmm, perhaps the Bioware poster is right: Easier way is progressquest, where XP is everything and you don't miss a single point.

[Maderas_]

If you do all the side quests and such, whilst wearing the sage belt from the Wonders of Thedas that increases experience gain from codex entries, you'll be well into level 24 by the end of the game. I don't think it's possible to hit level 25, so I wouldn't worry about the few hundred you might lose out on from missing the killing blow. Just do more side quests next time around.

[Grovermancer]

Zenon wrote...

I have a strategy for you: First kill all friendly NPCs using AoE spells like fireball. Then you can harvest all enemies all by yourself. Also I recommend not to use any armies in the final battle, so you have all the mobs yourself. Perhaps then you may finally be able to show off with a higher level than others.

Hmm, perhaps the Bioware poster is right: Easier way is progressquest, where XP is everything and you don't miss a single point.

I shouldn't have to kill off (or in any way even deal with) NPC's.

And I don't call in allies towards end-game (nice SPOILER BTW).

And feeling that I want to "show off," that's called "projection," and it implies what you're feeling.  Seriously, you needn't feel inferior just cause you aint hit lvl 24 yet.  If it's that important to you, just do what's needed to get there.  I only did it cause I wanted to get as much XP and fullfill as many quests as I possibly could in a single play-through.  If you just stay concerned about yourself and not worry about others, you won't feel lesser for not having done what they supposedly have.  Heck, you won't even care what they've done, you'll be enjoying the game too much yourself.

Modifié par Grovermancer, 26 novembre 2009 - 04:41 .

[Grovermancer]

Johohoho.Ehehehe wrote...

I'm a roleplayer so I put myself in the shoes of my character and/or the party as a whole. Doing so, why should I care about some XP? Imagine yourself figting some nasty monsters ... Wouldn't you be eternaly grateful to anyone helping you kill them, including landing a final blow? And if a group of adversaries anihilates themselves by friendly fire, even better.

It's a fight, your life is at stake. I bet you wouldn't give a **** if you missed the unique opportunity to try the new manoeuvre you learned yesterday in the camp.

XP = learning from encounters.  It allows you (your character) to grow and evolve as they move through the story.

RPG revolves around it.   No XP means no learning/growing from encounters.  That is wrong.

That's why I care.

[Grovermancer]

Maderas_ wrote...

If you do all the side quests and such, whilst wearing the sage belt from the Wonders of Thedas that increases experience gain from codex entries, you'll be well into level 24 by the end of the game. I don't think it's possible to hit level 25, so I wouldn't worry about the few hundred you might lose out on from missing the killing blow. Just do more side quests next time around.

About the only way for me to do any more side-quests would be to cheat. (walkthroughs)  I'm pretty sure though I'm hitting nearly all there are.

As I mentioned earlier, I hit lvl 24.  I had 2 side-quests glitch, and a lot of XP stolen as I've mentioned in this thread. (much to the chagrin of the FFFA -- the "fascist fundamentalist fanboy apologists").  However, I didn't wear the Memory Band nor the Codex belt... 

I'll bet I'd have gotten at least half way to 25 if all that were addressed.

I wanted to try a single play-through and get every single thing I could.  Now that I did, I doubt I try that again!!!

[Maderas_]

Well, the point was that it's not really possible to hit 25. Does it matter if you're 24 and three quarters rather than 24 and a half?

If the issue is not wanting to play through all the side quests, then you don't have to... but that seems more likely to hold you back from hitting the level you want. What's the most XP you could have possibly lost out on because of NPCs stealing the killing blows? A thousand? Even that seems generous.

Modifié par Maderas_, 26 novembre 2009 - 04:44 .

[Grovermancer]

Maderas_ wrote...

Well, the point was that it's not really possible to hit 25. Does it matter if you're 24 and three quarters rather than 24 and a half?

If the issue is not wanting to play through all the side quests, then you don't have to... but that seems more likely to hold you back from hitting the level you want. What's the most XP you could have possibly lost out on because of NPCs stealing the killing blows? A thousand? Even that seems generous.

Now that I've tried to do all I could and max out XP, I doubt I try that route again.  Too tedious to repeat again.

Another level would matter if I thought the stats/talents/spells would be worth it.  In the Rogue Archer I built, it wasn't; the next level Rogue skills would only apply to mele.  I'm sure in other builds, it would though.

BTW, as I've said several times, you could easily lose thousands of XP via the method we're discussing.  Especially if you lose the XP from mini-bosses.  From just one encounter I lost 180XP. 

Modifié par Grovermancer, 26 novembre 2009 - 04:55 .

[Dark83]

telephasic wrote...

Yes, in other bioware games, (KOTOR IIRC) you did get XP for every kill.

However, it doesn't really bother me you don't get them in Dragon Age. Look at it this way, you pay for the bonus of help in combat by not being able to claim the XP for every kill yourself. If you really care, incapacitate the neutrals and fight the battles essentially solo.

You aren't owed every single XP in the game.

Pft, there's at least one set-battle in the game where I wish the "bonus help" would just shut themselves in the Chantry and leave me at it.
That's one encounter where I always have to abandon my main character and micromanage my healer to keep my allies alive.<_<

[Grovermancer]

Johohoho.Ehehehe wrote...


There must be a difference between "no XP" and "sometimes I lose an opportunity to earn a few".

Sure...  Though again, why lose any?

Is it a big deal?  Of couse not.  Though if it's not a big deal, then why wasn't it addressed to begin with, or why was it apparently intentionally changed from past BW RPG's?

Also, my 3rd character was 300pts shy of lvl 24...  See what I mean?  Makes lots of difference in those situations.

Modifié par Grovermancer, 26 novembre 2009 - 04:53 .

[Dark83]

Maderas_ wrote...

Well, the point was that it's not really possible to hit 25. Does it matter if you're 24 and three quarters rather than 24 and a half?

If the issue is not wanting to play through all the side quests, then you don't have to... but that seems more likely to hold you back from hitting the level you want. What's the most XP you could have possibly lost out on because of NPCs stealing the killing blows? A thousand? Even that seems generous.

Someone mentioned being 1000xp short of the next level (not 24 to 25), and being really annoyed about it.

[Korva]

I really don't get the mindset that only the deathblow matters. Everyone who actively participates in an encounter should learn something from it, that is only fair and logical. No one would reasonably suggest that in team sports, only the player who is in possession of the ball when the final whistle blows, or who scores the last point in the game, has contributed anything to the match and should get the prize all by himself.

And the NPCs usually don't "help". On the contrary, they make a battle harder. At least if you roleplay, or just don't like nuking friendlies to smithereens. I always burn a lot of mana on keeping the uncontrolled NPCs alive. I can't use (much) AoE. I can't, which is stupid from a RP perspective, yell at the NPCs to fall back and hold the line and let my crew take care of things.

Experience from a fight I wasn't even involved in? No. Experience from a fight where my team did most of the work AND had a harder time of it because I did my damndest to keep the brainless uncontrolled friendlies alive? Yes.

[Selvec_Darkon]

You twit. That part of the game is scripted, they are meant to attack each other. Your not meant to get the XP from it. If you do, then consider yourself lucky. The tactical thing to do is just let them kill each other then mop up the remains.

Jesus.

[Zenon]

Grovermancer wrote...

Zenon wrote...

I have a strategy for you: First kill all friendly NPCs using AoE spells like fireball. Then you can harvest all enemies all by yourself. Also I recommend not to use any armies in the final battle, so you have all the mobs yourself. Perhaps then you may finally be able to show off with a higher level than others.

Hmm, perhaps the Bioware poster is right: Easier way is progressquest, where XP is everything and you don't miss a single point.

I shouldn't have to kill off (or in any way even deal with) NPC's.

And I don't call in allies towards end-game (nice SPOILER BTW).

Well, if you listened carefully quite early in the game there is already talk about gathering forces. I won't say where, but I think it's not much of any spoiler. I may have gotten too heated up reading your IMHO unjustified rants. Good for you, that you could name something you consider a spoiler. Makes you feel great, doesn't it?

And feeling that I want to "show off," that's called "projection," and it implies what you're feeling.  Seriously, you needn't feel inferior just cause you aint hit lvl 24 yet.  If it's that important to you, just do what's needed to get there.  I only did it cause I wanted to get as much XP and fullfill as many quests as I possibly could in a single play-through.  If you just stay concerned about yourself and not worry about others, you won't feel lesser for not having done what they supposedly have.  Heck, you won't even care what they've done, you'll be enjoying the game too much yourself.

It is not. I finished with level 22 and have no regret about it. I deliberately skipped one or two quests, which didn't fit into my character. And I have no regret of companions scoring a lethal hit on enemies. You complained about not getting enough XP, not me. Your self-awareness seems to leave to the desire projecting your crave for XP to others.

Play Progressquest and stop annoying others with your BS troll posts.

Modifié par Zenon, 27 novembre 2009 - 11:29 .

[Grovermancer]

Selvec_Darkon wrote...

You twit. That part of the game is scripted, they are meant to attack each other. Your not meant to get the XP from it. If you do, then consider yourself lucky. The tactical thing to do is just let them kill each other then mop up the remains.

Jesus.

So we're talking about the Crazy Mages then, in the Magi Tower...?

So if I run in and start to kill them before they are fighting on each other, they change tactic and attack me as I'm killing them, yet they still die of friendly fire...
...I still should get no XP?  Wrong.

Yeah, I'm the twit.

[yeahchris]

Yeah, I think it's fairly obvious to anyone with half a brain that it should do a check to see if the player's team did the majority of the damage to an enemy when a commoner kills it by taking off its last hitpoint with a kick to the shin, and award XP to the player if he did.

[Grovermancer]

[quote]Zenon wrote...


Well, if you listened carefully quite early in the game there is already talk about gathering forces. I won't say where, but I think it's not much of any spoiler. I may have gotten too heated up reading your IMHO unjustified rants. Good for you, that you could name something you consider a spoiler. Makes you feel great, doesn't it?
[/quote]

You are quite angry, aren't you?  Ah, the irony of this thread is out the wazoo.  You, apparently feeling quite inadequate and uncomfortable, now attributing me citing common posting knowledge and my civilized behavior to something that "makes me feel great."  (or does it make you feel something)?

You, foaming at the mouth and ranting over my tongue-in-cheek psuedo "rant," which makes rational valid points, but to which you spew anger and hurt feelings and call it a rant..

This is a non-spoiler forum, you mentioned a major plot/gameplay spoiler.   Man-up and try owning something in your posts.

[/quote]

[quote]
[/quote]

[quote]

It is not. I finished with level 22 and have no regret about it. I deliberately skipped one or two quests, which didn't fit into my character. And I have no regret of companions scoring a lethal hit on enemies. You complained about not getting enough XP, not me. Your self-awareness seems to leave to the desire projecting your crave for XP to others.

Play Progressquest and stop annoying others with your BS troll posts.
[/quote]

So  you thought 22 was high, and it make you angry that someone else got higher?  Did it make you mad that I mentioned that publicly?  I'm sure there's others who leveled higher than I did.  Why do you care so much if others get higher than you?  Let them play their game, and you play yours.  Stop worrying about other people, you'll be a happier person.

In this thread, I mentioned a combat system/mechanic unlike every other BW and RPG's I've played thus far.  Instead of intelligent, rational, and civil discourse, many responses have been childish and ignorant outbursts and foamings-at-the-mouth by fanboys, fundamentalists, and rationalizers.

Yeah... I'm the troll.

Modifié par Grovermancer, 27 novembre 2009 - 01:13 .

[Zenon]

yeahchris wrote...

Yeah, I think it's fairly obvious to anyone with half a brain that it should do a check to see if the player's team did the majority of the damage to an enemy when a commoner kills it by taking off its last hitpoint with a kick to the shin, and award XP to the player if he did.

Ok, it probably would have been possible to include dealt damage in XP distribution routine. Perhaps also add extra XP for lucky crits. But then again I don't see where this would have substantially improved the game. In a MMORPG like WoW this is a much more critical feature with large groups of players fighting in a team. But on a single player game such discussion is almost as needless as a discussion about balancing mages against rogues or warriors.

[yeahchris]

Zenon wrote...

yeahchris wrote...

Yeah, I think it's fairly obvious to anyone with half a brain that it should do a check to see if the player's team did the majority of the damage to an enemy when a commoner kills it by taking off its last hitpoint with a kick to the shin, and award XP to the player if he did.

Ok, it probably would have been possible to include dealt damage in XP distribution routine. Perhaps also add extra XP for lucky crits. But then again I don't see where this would have substantially improved the game. In a MMORPG like WoW this is a much more critical feature with large groups of players fighting in a team. But on a single player game such discussion is almost as needless as a discussion about balancing mages against rogues or warriors.

I'm not saying that it's gamebreaking, or that it's a critical feature; I'm only saying that it's moderately annoying in particular parts of the game and that the only excuse for the check not being there is laziness in the development process. Also, it completely screws over people who want to use those spells which can make enemies kill one another.

[Zenon]

@Grovermancer:



Interesting how you answer to my posts. I suggest you enroll in a class of reading comprehension. I said it was not a problem for me to finish the game at level 22 instead of 23 or 24 or whatever.



From your answering style I assume you are the angry person here. If I made a mistake then maybe taking your original post too seriously. If you buy a chain mail for a warrior when playing a mage, then maybe your group is taking away your gold, too? I get out of here before you start discussing something like: My party members breathe my character's air.



If you flame me, then I can answer in that style. If you write in a sensible and civilized manner, you get a civilized answer. Already the bold letters in the original posts and the reasons given -- in fact the whole question -- gave me the impression this was an entirely emotional post. Maybe there will be an XP mod by the community to make you happy.

[Grovermancer]

Zenon wrote...

@Grovermancer:

Interesting how you answer to my posts. I suggest you enroll in a class of reading comprehension. I said it was not a problem for me to finish the game at level 22 instead of 23 or 24 or whatever.

I get out of here before you start discussing something like: My party members breathe my character's air.

Here's a surprise -- more passive aggressive jabs from you.

Perhaps then you may finally be able to show off with a higher level than others.

Sure sounds like it was "problem" for you.

Maybe you should  "stop annoying others with your BS troll posts."  (in case you conveniently skim over this one too, that's your dialogue)

Modifié par Grovermancer, 27 novembre 2009 - 01:22 .

[Zenon]

yeahchris wrote...

(cut quote for improving readability)

I'm not saying that it's gamebreaking, or that it's a critical feature; I'm only saying that it's moderately annoying in particular parts of the game and that the only excuse for the check not being there is laziness in the development process. Also, it completely screws over people who want to use those spells which can make enemies kill one another.

Ok, the spell for letting an NPC kill a victim for you like a pet should yield some XP to the caster. I haven't used this spell yet, so here I read about this the first time. Then again I think the game and it's engine are already highly complex. Perhaps this was even discussed by the dev team. I have no clue how much extra code with an extra event would have perhaps cost time, performance or caused other problems. Anyway, some XP not being channeled to my character didn't irritate me at all.