177 réponses à ce sujet

[Cyrilix2]

Hey Grovermancer,

This is what I do: if I'm in a kill-stealing battle, I kill one of each of the white mobs and the yellow mobs. Then, I watch carefully to see how many white mobs do not die / how many yellow mobs do not die by my hand. Multiply and add the XP together, then do a runscript addxp # for that amount of experience. It's not 100% accurate, since there could be variations among mobs, but in general it will give you the closest approximation to perfection (which is really what I care about). It's tedious, I know, but if you have OCD (not a disorder) like I do, then you will probably do it.

For me, if I trigger a trip trap, then it's back to the previous reload.

Modifié par Cyrilix2, 28 novembre 2009 - 11:35 .

[Grovermancer]

wanderon wrote...


it was in every other rpg on the planet why isn't it in this one

is a pretty lame argument if in fact it's a valid argument at all -

Just because other games have feature X doesn't mean it therefor follows that every game in the genre must have that same feature unless it's some sort of major feature that defines the genre - which is decidedly not the case here.

I also agree that the OP has pretty much made whatever point he has to
make and now appears to be doing little more than flaming anyone who
disagrees with him.

Sure, it doesn't have to stay the same...

But why intentionally change it then?  I still haven't heard the logic behind it.  To go out of one's way to change the way something has always been, which worked fine before, but which now in many cases makes no sense (especially in the cases of certain spells and pets).

It seems everyone agrees, in a situation where you/your party delivers at least some damage, you should therefore get at least a % of the XP.  In the past, you got it all.

My god, I'M flaming people?  Have you read this thread???  I've been called every name in the book by people who didn't even understand what the hell I was saying!  How am I flaming people?  In all seriousness, please find where I flamed someone.

I'm just asking for logical explanations against the original premise, which very few (if any) have offered.

Modifié par Grovermancer, 28 novembre 2009 - 12:28 .

[Grovermancer]

Cyrilix2 wrote...

Hey Grovermancer,

This is what I do: if I'm in a kill-stealing battle, I kill one of each of the white mobs and the yellow mobs. Then, I watch carefully to see how many white mobs do not die / how many yellow mobs do not die by my hand. Multiply and add the XP together, then do a runscript addxp # for that amount of experience. It's not 100% accurate, since there could be variations among mobs, but in general it will give you the closest approximation to perfection (which is really what I care about). It's tedious, I know, but if you have OCD (not a disorder) like I do, then you will probably do it.

For me, if I trigger a trip trap, then it's back to the previous reload.

Thanks for the advice, I may consider doing that...!


My current play-through is a Noble Dwarf...  That thing about losing all my DLC items after the origins level irritated me, so I did the "force reload" trick to get them back...

...and now, further into the game, my char's XP and level is at least 1/2 a level behind all my NPC's.

Kind of weird.

[Cyrilix2]

Grovermancer wrote...

Cyrilix2 wrote...

Hey Grovermancer,

This is what I do: if I'm in a kill-stealing battle, I kill one of each of the white mobs and the yellow mobs. Then, I watch carefully to see how many white mobs do not die / how many yellow mobs do not die by my hand. Multiply and add the XP together, then do a runscript addxp # for that amount of experience. It's not 100% accurate, since there could be variations among mobs, but in general it will give you the closest approximation to perfection (which is really what I care about). It's tedious, I know, but if you have OCD (not a disorder) like I do, then you will probably do it.

For me, if I trigger a trip trap, then it's back to the previous reload.

Thanks for the advice, I may consider doing that...!


My current play-through is a Noble Dwarf...  That thing about losing all my DLC items after the origins level irritated me, so I did the "force reload" trick to get them back...

...and now, further into the game, my char's XP and level is at least 1/2 a level behind all my NPC's.

Kind of weird.

I think if you lose DLC items, it's because you aren't "logged in" to your account when you load your save. I disabled authentication on all the DLC stuff, so it wouldn't bug me about it, but instead, it just made it so that if you're not authenticated, then you lose it.

[Grovermancer]

Cyrilix2 wrote...



I think if you lose DLC items, it's because you aren't "logged in" to your account when you load your save. I disabled authentication on all the DLC stuff, so it wouldn't bug me about it, but instead, it just made it so that if you're not authenticated, then you lose it.

I'm pretty sure I was logged in though.  Actually, I think I have to be logged in every time I load any saved game from any character... or else I'll not have any DLC items.  (not sure, as I've not tested it though)   It actually gives me a "warning" sometimes as I'm loading, about needing to be logged in. 

Re: the Dwarf Noble origins, it seems a lot of people are having the same thing happen, of losing DLC at the completion of the origins story.  It does fit w/ the Dwarf Noble origins story...

[Palathas]

Yeah, I think I can see where the OP is coming from now. I've lost a fair bit of xp here and there to things like the Knights of Redcliff, Mobari hounds, Militiamen, and a bunch of other things but have not been too concerned as they've just been trash mobs.

Without giving too much away, a fought the named Rage demon that is summoned by the door of the Magi Tower basement and I had the apprentices lobbing in the occasional staff shot. I spent 4 odd minutes keeping party members alive and working damn hard to kill this thing and just as I was about to land the last blow an apprentice got a lucky staff bolt in and killed it, I got nothing. So I expend all these resources (a heck of a lot of Healing and Lyrium potions, which aren't cheap or overly common), a lot of effort, take a huge risk and get no reward? Just because some sideline NPC does 0.5% of the work they get all the reward? That's just plain wrong.

Yeah RPGs aren't all about XP but if you get no worth while reward, if you can't advance or improve your abilities what's the point of adventuring? Just to sight see? There are much better ways to sight see than to risk life and limb everyday. I suppose I should be happy that I at least got that worthless named 2H sword, considering that any warrior hasn't a chance of survival without a weapon and shield.

Edit: I definitely think that the Killing Blow method of crediting XP is the worst possible method. Whoever does the most damage is just as bad i.e. A monster has 2000HP, player spends 10 minutes knocking it down to 200 HP and a guard comes along and does 10000 dmg thus getting the credit because they did the most dmg, even though they only contributed 200hp dmg to the overall effort. It should be whoever contributes the most to the kill where in this case there only needs to be two options for who gets it, party and not party.

Modifié par Palathas, 29 novembre 2009 - 11:52 .

[thegreateski]

Denerim guard: Damn adventurers. Always killing the monsters! and they wonder why we're so weak. . .

[Seclus]

thegreateski wrote...

Denerim guard: Damn adventurers. Always killing the monsters! and they wonder why we're so weak. . .

thats just too funny!!

i agree with the OP non party npc getting kill steals is annoying but even more annoying is spells that kill and generate no xp. it makes using spells in a smart tactical way seem worthless. I used my intellegence and killed them with great stratagy and cunning but i gained no xp for seting up the situation to make it work to my advantage.

I would find it less annoying.. except its our skills that we have stealing our xp with animated corpses/living bombs/ pets/ mind control we are gettign no xp with our own talents being the cause.

if it was just non party npc getting kill steals i could over look it and chalk it up to well its not that bad but in conjunction with out own abilities cauing us to get no xp it starts to become more of an issue. I would liek to see a patch to fix this sometime eventual in the future but there are other bugs that need fixing first.

[ElektroGuy]

Like Goerg said...the exp points are evenly distributed amongst all party mem-







Oh wait.



*smirk

[Cadarin]

I think they did this to penalize you for using "confusion" type spells that force your enemies to fight each other. To be honest, those type of spells make most fights trivial, and this forces me to think twice before casting them.

I don't have a problem with losing XP to friendlies, simply because I figure that they are putting their lives on the line, same as my characters are. Besides, I still get to keep the loot.

Also, that last edit of the OP was a sad attempt to hide the fact that this is a pretty serious case of nerd rage.

[Palathas]

Cadarin wrote...

I think they did this to penalize you for using "confusion" type spells that force your enemies to fight each other. To be honest, those type of spells make most fights trivial, and this forces me to think twice before casting them.
I don't have a problem with losing XP to friendlies, simply because I figure that they are putting their lives on the line, same as my characters are. Besides, I still get to keep the loot.
Also, that last edit of the OP was a sad attempt to hide the fact that this is a pretty serious case of nerd rage.

I agree if they are in the thick of it like the Redcliff Knights but in the example I gave above they were never even close to being threatened as my party was generating way too much agro. The material reward I ended up with is useless to me and not even worth much money, I would have much prefered the significant experience reward that the apprentice did a whole 20 points of damage for.

Modifié par Palathas, 30 novembre 2009 - 02:23 .

[Grovermancer]

Cadarin wrote...

I think they did this to penalize you for using "confusion" type spells that force your enemies to fight each other. To be honest, those type of spells make most fights trivial, and this forces me to think twice before casting them.
I don't have a problem with losing XP to friendlies, simply because I figure that they are putting their lives on the line, same as my characters are. Besides, I still get to keep the loot.
Also, that last edit of the OP was a sad attempt to hide the fact that this is a pretty serious case of nerd rage.

Well, many of the spells when used a certain way make the fight pretty much "trivial."

Anything that freezes/incapacitates an enemies pretty much ends that skirmish, sometimes even removing the need for any mele damage.

As for NPC's "putting it on the line," I suppose that's a way to RP it, but then we should still get a portion or a % of XP based on damage;  computer NPC's shouldn't get all the XP. 

Wouldn't it be nice if they could be told to "hold the line" or something similar?  (HOTU allowed something similar -- though there, you got all the XP regardless)


ps.  if trying to "hide my nerdrage," why not just edit the original post?


If you think that was "rage," I'd love you to see one of our crazy loud parties.   (there being loud, crazy, over-the-top shouting isn't being angry -- it's "having fun!"  Though it probably would scare most "normal" citizens.)

[Haexpane]

Grovermancer wrote...


I'm so sick of friendly, or even enemy NPC's stealing my XP!

It's bad enough Allister swoops in to steal the last kill hit (thus mana suck) from every enemy I've worked down, but at least there, you still get the XP for the overall kill.

But this crap of NPC's killing (usually with a puny shot to barely finish off) enemy units... AND NO XP IS GRANTED!!!

Just playing through the Fade/Magi Tower (4th play-through, Rogue Archer, ugh), and just had 4 mages KILL THEMSELVES (as I'm dealing damage to them) and I got no XP!  Keep reloading and trying to get all the kills myself, but the idiots keep blasting each other with fireballs... AND I GET NO XP FOR IT!  ARGHHH!


My 2nd character was only 300pts from lvl 23...  I could've made it were it not for this unusual game-mechanic.



ADDENDUM:  Since people apparently can't read or I don't explain well enough... I'm NOT talking about your own party members.  I'm talking about non-party member NPC allies, OR I'm talking about enemy-on-enemy NPC friendly fire.  (it also can apply to "Waking Nightmare" and "Blood Control" spells).

In either case, you do NOT get that XP if you don't get the kill-shot.

This is unlike most every RPG I've played.




2nd ADDENDUM (for the fanboys):  Since it's apparently not obvious, this is a sarcastic, over-the-top, "tongue-in-cheek" """rant."""  I'm not serious in mood or demeanor, only in the topic. 

A testament to the "caliber" of users on these forums that such a note even needs made. 

Good lord talk about  narcissism.  We don't need "addendums" to your boring rants.

[Pickyguy]

u can try this to increase ur chances of getting that last hit.

select all 4 party members (click n drag like u would to icons in ur desktop)

and attack the dying unit.

[Thalandor21]

Maybe its been said before in this thread, but I've stoped using Waking Nightmare (a very useful spell) because critters killed by other critters = no exp for me. WTF ?!

[Grovermancer]

Haexpane wrote...

Good lord talk about  narcissism.  We don't need "addendums" to your boring rants.

The first few pages illustrate why it was necessary.

You're apparently bitter and angry for some reason, you call it 'narcissitic' yet quoted the entire thing while thinking your opinion of me was important enough for all to read, yet didn't actually address the topic at hand.

I'm guessing it's members like you that made the addendums necessary. 

ADDENDEUM:  That's called irony.

Pickyguy wrote...

u can try this to increase ur chances of getting that last hit.
select all 4 party members (click n drag like u would to icons in ur desktop)
and attack the dying unit.

Yeah, I use that one, and many other tricks too.  Kind of ridiculous that if you want max XP, you gotta change and adapt your entire party combat strategy at certain points in the game.

Thalandor21 wrote...

Maybe its been said before in this
thread, but I've stoped using Waking Nightmare (a very useful spell)
because critters killed by other critters = no exp for me. WTF
?!

I know.  It's ridiculous.  I'm playing a "Necromancer" type Mage, going all Entropy spells and the virulent bomb line...  And not sure I even want to use Waking Nightmare.

Then again, I'm on my 6th play-through, getting a little burnt out, and not playing nearly as serious as before, so it's not as big an issue now.

Modifié par Grovermancer, 30 novembre 2009 - 09:32 .

[StupidWiz]

Grovermancer wrote...

It was COMPLETELY called for -- a bunch of smart-ass jerks who have nothing to add to the conversation, who are too weak, lazy, or stupid to even READ AND UNDERSTAND what the hell I'm saying, who make FACTUALLY INACCURATE rebuttals (again, with attitude), call it a "pathetic thread," (w/o even understanding what the hell the thread is about -- that's pathetic!), who rant that I'm ranting (even though the original post was tongue-in-cheek and not truly serious) and even YOUR POST about "having nothing better to do" --WHY ARE YOU EVEN POSTING THERE THEN?!? (see, that is another case of projection and revealing yourself)

Cool thing is -- there are also many responding here in equal disbelief at the childish, stupid, knee-jerk, responses of idiot arm-chair tough guys who can't even understand what they're reading, then criticize and **** about it... 

I understand your problem, when I freed the dogs in tower of Ishal, they stole my Genlock Alpha exp too (the amount of its exp is significant compared to other darkspawn, right?), I don't see amount of exp above my party's head, thus, I think I didn't get the exp. I know that exp in this kind of game is limited and when those exps just fly away to some unimportant NPC, it made you frustrated. Reminds me of the battle of NwN 2 when you have to defend your village the first time. =P 

[IndyAnna]

I didn't read this whole thread but the tempory party members steal xp also. In the light the beacon quest with the 2 temp party members, I lost xp when one killed the orge. I had to reload and do it agian for the 165 xp.

The sad part is I had stripped all armor and weapons off them before the battle and the warrior killed the orge with his bare hands after I had done must of the damage and no xp for me.


ETA, I cheak the xp after every battle by holding the mouse over my player character. Also soloing you pull in more xp than the party. In the prisoner quest, I soloed the town and in one battle I netted 16 xp more than the party. Here is the test numbers, before the battle Alister (sp?) had 2371 xp and I had 1948 xp. After the battle Alister had 2590 xp and I had 2183 xp. I grew tried of watching my party level faster then me so I started writting down the xp before the battles and after. My  frustration is I feel I have to solo a party based game to keep up with my companion's levels.

Modifié par IndyAnna, 01 décembre 2009 - 02:53 .

[Grovermancer]

Many good points being brought up...  Someone a page or two ago brought up the issue that, even WITHIN THE PARTY, XP is not equal...  (I experienced this with my 5th play-through as Dwarf Noble, lagging behind the rest of my party)

...and I say AGAIN, when you take this over the course of the entire game, it can easily add up to at LEAST a level .


But beyond that, you shouldn't even have to worry about it!

And as of yet, there's not been 1 legit logical explanation as to how this is better than how it's always been, or how it makes common sense.  TBH, just a bunch of excuses and justifications from apparent fanboys.  Shameless and pathetic.

It needs to be fixed, and set back to how it's always been.  "If it aint broke, don't "fix" it."


ps.  it's always amusing to hear people try to justify and play it down and harp on "RP" and such like a cure-all justification for illogical XP design...  well I tell you what:  part of RP is learning and growing, and you learn and grow by and gaining XP.  And worrying about being cheated for XP ruins RP and immersion in general.  There's no excuse.  When you have to change your entire strategy just to make sure you get what you're owed...  things are messed up.

 

[Grovermancer]

LOL, oh, and BTW, you two are both referencing missions from very early...!!!

Just WAIT till later.  There's a whole lot o' XP gonna get stolen from you!  (from help you didn't ask for, and which adds almost nothing, 'cept to take XP once you've beat down enemies)

And XP means higher attributes, more spells, and better talents.  That means more "you."

There's "RP" for ya!

[StupidWiz]

let's put it this way, maybe, the exp there is not meant for you, yeah well, technically, they're there, but maybe if you don't get help from the NPCs you might not be able to win the battle or win it with several casualties..



For instance, I reloaded my save before freeing the dogs in Tower of Ishal, I tried not to free the dogs, and the result : My Circle Mage didn't make it, The Genlock Alpha shot him to death before i put him down, yes, the exp was mine but I had to accept the reality that one of my party members went down (not only that, my other characters' health was low too when I win the battle and I ran out of health poultices too) while when I freed the dogs, that didn't happen (because the Genlock Alpha was too busy with the dogs)..



Of course if you don't mind spending lesser injury kit for some casualties, or not hurting your pride when one of your companions goes down, I think playing without helps from NPC is perfectly fine =)

[Grovermancer]

Once you're more used to the game (ie, map layout and enemies), you can easily go through many places and take out enemies that seemed tough before,  and w/o the help of any computer NPC...  But they'll still be there!

Like others have mentioned, it's really fun when it's some high-level enemy boss, and you've even jumped through some quest hoops to 'summon' the enemy, and all pistons firing your party is about to take them out...
...then some clown placeholder computer NPC gets a 2-pt damage kill and utterly ruins the whole cool experience of it all.

And that can happen numerous times throughout the whole damn story line!  Just pulls you out of it somehow.  (plus, in terms of lesser enemy units, it can add up to thousands of XP points -- I've added them up!)

[IndyAnna]

I like my solution best. Run the party into the middle of a battle, disable tactics, let the baddies beat on my party while I kill them. I don't even care about my party anymore, they've become fodder just to make sure I net the xp that is rightfully mine.

[DarkSun09]

Ninjaphrog wrote...

Ok OP'er this is how it goes down:

Your party attacks a Darkspawn...and you all get hits in but in the end Morrigan gets the killing blow...it says lets say 74 xp over her head...

This is only there to show the amount of XP gained in total, that 74xp is actually as evenly as possible split between all 4 of you, HOWEVER, if you are the only one not to successfully hit the target, all others get XP but you. So don't slack.

Really now... I had no idea. And here I've been competing with Alistair and calling him all manners of names for nothing. Thought the bastard was hogging all the exp. You had better be right about this, friend, cause I'mma put him off cautious mode after today. 

[Godeshus]

Personally, it doesn't bother me if I finish the game at level 25 or 18. I just like the story and the animations. Eye candy, as it would be.