31 réponses à ce sujet

[wetnasty]

I was talking to a friend of mine about why so many of the mages turn to blood magic when he brought up a good point. Honestly, if you were in their shoes, what would you do?

It's so easy to say that you wouldn't do this you wouldn't do that, but let's take a decision similar to the one from An Act of Mercy.

Say you're a mage. You lived in the circle in Starkhaven, and your tower has just been destroyed, so your phylactery is gone. You were traveling with templars and managed to escape, however the templars know your name, face, and everything about you. You have a vague recollection of your family, who you're not able to access at that very moment. Say they happen to be across ocean borders. Say you're only left with three choices.

• Give yourself up to the templars. Be transferred to another tower (most likely Kirkwall) in an unfamiliar place. :innocent:
• Try to make a break for it and blend in with the crowd. Remember though that not only do these templars know who you are, so you'd have to come up with some sort of disguise, plan, or keep continuously moving, but you don't have much money, and would have to try to work for it. (Keep in mind that if you're caught, depending on the templar you could get something as easy as being sent to a circle or as severe as being executed on the spot).
  
  OR
  
• Join a blood mage type gang, where you have a semi tight knit community, that you can perhaps use for food/shelter/etc. at the cost of sometimes not only being in the presence of blood magic, but maybe having to use blood magic yourself to fit in. Also there are a bunch of crazies in there, and you never really know who's strong enough to resist the urge to go abonimation.

What would you do???

My instant thought would be to go on the run by myself and try to find work here and there, but it most likely would not be as easy as I thought. Could try to do odd jobs from city to city until I make up enough money to try to go back to my family, however I would not even be sure that they wouldn't turn me into the templars on the spot. So I think my final decision would be to just give up and head to the circle.

I really want to know what other people would do though in this situation, because its so easy to say "oh well, I wouldn't have done that" but how many options do you really have? Devs are welcome to comment too with any input that they want.

[TEWR]

I sure as hell wouldn't attack a group that may have at most 3 mages without first finding out what their intentions were.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Let's see... Turning to the one thing, that would prove that all the people who fear me, is right, or prove them all wrong, by not doing it... A hard one really.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 12 août 2011 - 02:53 .

[Alyka]

I'd go on the run, try and find the Grey Wardens and join their ranks.Sure, it's a death sentence.But would it be better to at least live for a little while and help fight darkspawn or keep running in fear that one day the Templar's just might catch up with you,ultimately ending in either your death or thier's?
No way would I join a Blood Magic gang.I wouldn't want to be a toy for a demon who doesn't give two sh!ts about whether I die or not.The consequences of the "puppet's" actions are detrimental, meanwhile the demon's just get sent back to the Fade again and you're dead.What do they care?

[Aviena]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Let's see... Turning to the one thing, that would prove that all the people who fear me, is right, or prove them all wrong, by not doing it... A hard one really.

Let's play along with the OP's premise and pretend that you are actually in this situation. If that were the case, I very much doubt you'd concern yourself with holding the morale high ground instead of staying free and staying alive. You've already fled the Templars so you're facing punishment no matter what. Your options are essentially:

a) hold the morale high ground and fight the Templars using only conventional magic. You'll either win, in which case you've just killed Templars and are a Maleficar regardless of whether you actually used blood magic or not, or you'll lose, in which case you'll either be straight-up executed or be punished severely for fighting Templars.

use blood magic. Same consequences as above, except a greater likelihood of winning and steeper punishments if you lose. And you won't be able to tell your grandkids how you "proved them all wrong".

c) give yourself up and face punishment, with no real assurance of how severe said punishment will be (remember that the Starkhaven mages have heard really nasty stuff about the Kirkwall Templars).

d) run for it.

Modifié par Aviena, 12 août 2011 - 09:23 .

[KotorEffect3]

Try to find a way to get to Tevinter. Easier said than done but as a mage that would be my only long term option if I want to live free.

[esper]

I would properly turn to blood magic, I admit that, but as other has said I wouldn't have attacked none templar group before knowing if they were there to help me or not...

[Macropodmum]

I'd hightail it to Ferelden and throw myself at the mercy of good King Alistair

[Gervaise]

The reason for not turning to blood magic is actually one of self preservation.  You have to be very strong minded and actually very astute to resist the demons alure and the ultimate aim of the demon is always going to be to possesses you.  Shedding blood makes it easier for spirits/demons to contact you across the veil - that is fact.  The more blood that is shed, the easier it becomes.    Also invariably to do more powerful spells, one persons blood is not going to be sufficient.  So in addition to the threat from the demons, if you join a predominately blood mage group, there is the likelihood they are going to want you to join in, either killing ordinary bystanders, as a collective blood mage spell, or simply by the strong preying on the weak which may well be you.   
Now if your phylactery has been destroyed, there is far less chance of Templars finding you provided you do nothing to draw attention to yourself.  There is also a possibility that if you concentrate on beneficial magic, the local community will actually want to protect you but if they see you spilling blood, even your own, then superstitious fear will kick in.  In any case, blood or lyrium are only required for more powerful spells.  If you are trying to blend in, your own mana should be sufficient.
It is possible to live outside the Circle and not resort to blood magic.  Plenty of other mages have done it.  Just because Grace complains that you left her and her companions high and dry doesn't justify returning to blood magic.  Hell, she need only have asked and I would have given them gold, maps, an escort to the nearest border, etc.  And they weren't doing so good holed up in that cave even with Decimus - they weren't going anywhere and how long before he felt they were expendable?   
The trouble is people in the game keep saying, oh turning to blood magic was excusable because they were desperate.  No, they turned to it because it was easy and because they were stupid enough to believe they could control it - then the moment they are threatened, poof they're abominations, which is worse than being dead since they as a person no longer exist but hey that's okay because I can take a lot of other people out with me and reinforce everything that the Chantry teaches about magic and f*** the consequences for future mages.    Or alternatively someone else steps in to protect them and they die instead.   And please do not get me started on Orsino - that was so unnecessary particularly if Hawke is protecting the mages.
Don't get me wrong - I think the way mages are treated in the majority of Thedas is bad but young mages do need guidance and boundaries in order that they do not become victims of their own stupidity - blood magic is dangerous to the user, not just everyone else.

[miraclemight]

Malcom Hawke managed to lay low for many years without resorting to blood magic, and I'm sure a lot of people knew his face, beause he used to perform magic for the nobles.

I think striking a deal with a demon just to be 'free' is a weak excuse. Free from Templars and becoming imprisoned by a demon's will? Is that worth it? No. Is that going to keep you forever free? No. Such mages are so high profile that sooner or later someone is going cut them down, in the game's cases Hawke.

Not only that, but as mentioned by the poster above me, they also reinforce what is being said by the Chantry.

Modifié par miraclemight, 12 août 2011 - 03:02 .

[The Baconer]

Gervaise wrote...

The reason for not turning to blood magic is actually one of self preservation.  You have to be very strong minded and actually very astute to resist the demons alure and the ultimate aim of the demon is always going to be to possesses you.  Shedding blood makes it easier for spirits/demons to contact you across the veil - that is fact.  The more blood that is shed, the easier it becomes.

Blood magic is the only magic that doesn't require any interaction with the Fade, since it relies on an earthly power source.

If you're worried about mages gambling with demons then you'd be better off keeping an eye on spirit healers.

[Rifneno]

I agree with TEWR and Esper. His big ****** move was being aggressive with anyone and everyone outside of his group. I'm not judging him for the templar hate. How was he to know that the one great templar in the Free Marches was the one outside of the cave? As for the blood magic... a mage that's decided to fight templars and refuses to use blood magic needs to see a spirit healer about that brain tumor. Blood magic is the only school that their lyrium-infused abilities are useless against.

[CrimsonZephyr]

Rifneno wrote...

I agree with TEWR and Esper. His big ****** move was being aggressive with anyone and everyone outside of his group. I'm not judging him for the templar hate. How was he to know that the one great templar in the Free Marches was the one outside of the cave? As for the blood magic... a mage that's decided to fight templars and refuses to use blood magic needs to see a spirit healer about that brain tumor. Blood magic is the only school that their lyrium-infused abilities are useless against.

I think you sell lawful mages short. Templars aren't invincible against them. Kirkwall's Circle decided to send its B team against Meredith in the ending. It's already been established that many mages had already fled. Likely, that includes any halfway decent combat mage.

Also, spilling quarts of one's own blood does nothing for one's survivability in combat.

Modifié par CrimsonZephyr, 12 août 2011 - 04:08 .

[Rifneno]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

I think you sell lawful mages short. Templars aren't invincible against them. Kirkwall's Circle decided to send its B team against Meredith in the ending. It's already been established that many mages had already fled. Likely, that includes any halfway decent combat mage.

Also, spilling quarts of one's own blood does nothing for one's survivability in combat.

Of course, I'm not saying regular spells are totally ineffective. They're significantly mitigated though. You can kill an attacker with a handgun or an assault rifle, but given the choice the latter is definitely more likely to lead you to victory.

[TEWR]

blood magic allows you to heal yourself though. Sacrifice (which more than likely could be used on an enemy instead of an ally) and grave robber.

[LobselVith8]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I sure as hell wouldn't attack a group that may have at most 3 mages without first finding out what their intentions were.

It's unfortunate that Decimus suffers from the rampant stupidity that so many of Hawke's antagonists do - I suppose the writers thought this would make the dichotomy between mages and templars more engaging when it simply reduces the debate susbstantially.

As for the OP, if I was a mage, I would turn to blood magic to survive. Templars can nullify a mage's magical abilities, as we see with Meredith shutting down the Qunari mage's abilities in Act II. It's blood magic that templars can't annul. If it meant the difference between life and death, especially with templars like Ser Alrik and Ser Kerras waiting for me back at the Gallows, I'd use whatever means at my disposal to remain alive.

[esper]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

I agree with TEWR and Esper. His big ****** move was being aggressive with anyone and everyone outside of his group. I'm not judging him for the templar hate. How was he to know that the one great templar in the Free Marches was the one outside of the cave? As for the blood magic... a mage that's decided to fight templars and refuses to use blood magic needs to see a spirit healer about that brain tumor. Blood magic is the only school that their lyrium-infused abilities are useless against.

I think you sell lawful mages short. Templars aren't invincible against them. Kirkwall's Circle decided to send its B team against Meredith in the ending. It's already been established that many mages had already fled. Likely, that includes any halfway decent combat mage.

Also, spilling quarts of one's own blood does nothing for one's survivability in combat.

You are not a lawful mage if you are fighting against templars... If you have reached that point, you are either an apostate or about to be one. The blood mage things really boils down to what are you most afraid of
A). Death at a templars hand.
.Possible possession
C). Cutting yourself. 

Since the chance of running out of mana is likely with a templar, I would take the chance with b and c since they are the dangers that are not so urgent as the templars standing outside the cave, but I would really hide the blood thing to the group NOT wearing the shiny armour. They might just be there to help after all, and if not... well THEN I could attack with all the fancy skeletons laying around ( I assume we are still discussin Decimus.) 

Modifié par esper, 12 août 2011 - 04:20 .

[miraclemight]

This isn't exactly about Decimus, but was I the only one who didn't see any magic-nullifying abilities from the Templars except from Meredith?

Everytime I saw a possessed templar in the Ferelden circle as my mage, I couldn't help but think 'oh no, not one of these again'. They were very effiecient in draining mana and dealing extra damage to spellcasters.

In DA II, the only decent Templar I saw was only in one of my playthroughs and that was Carver. >>

[wetnasty]

miraclemight wrote...

This isn't exactly about Decimus, but was I the only one who didn't see any magic-nullifying abilities from the Templars except from Meredith?

Everytime I saw a possessed templar in the Ferelden circle as my mage, I couldn't help but think 'oh no, not one of these again'. They were very effiecient in draining mana and dealing extra damage to spellcasters.

In DA II, the only decent Templar I saw was only in one of my playthroughs and that was Carver. >>

Really? Because Ser Alrik definitely put the smack down on my party every time I played it. In fact it was even worse when I was a mage.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

If I didn't know that Ferelden might be giving shelter from the templars/circle and I didn't believe in the use of blood magic,  I'd try to earn enough money to make it to Rivain where magic seems to be accepted. If I believe in the use of blood magic, I'd try to make my way to Tevinter.

Anders sets up a clinic in the slums of town and I'm sure for his services people paid him in food or whatever they could spare. I also got the impression he offered healing for free.

You could also join the carta, mercenary, smuggling groups since they wanted mages for hire to earn coin. I'm sure through the grapevine this is common knowledge.

I wouldn't want to join a group of other mages. That would eventually attract attention. I would not dress as a mage and just wear everyday street clothes and if possible I wouldn't carry a staff. Mages can cast spells with their hands. I got the impression a staff only adds to range as a weapon and for melee combat.

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 12 août 2011 - 05:59 .

[wetnasty]

^^^^ Now that I think about it you don't actually hear anything about Rivain and mages do you? I wonder what it's like there for them.

[Gervaise]

Rivain is interesting because they have wise women there who seem to be a type of shaman, who deliberately allow themselves to become possessed to acquire knowledge but apparently seem to be able keep their identity.  This sounds more akin to what happened with the original human Flemeth.    I would quite like to see Rivain in a future game, simply because the culture sounds so interesting apart from the magical connection - check out the codexes on there.

[CrimsonZephyr]

Also, Meredith has to be like...right behind that Saarebas when she cancels his powers, and that was only right after he conjured a massive energy blast that filled the entire square. All templar powers work in a fairly small arc around their bodies. Mages can attack over much longer distances and they have a much larger variety of powers at their disposal. I mean, really, combining the Force Mage and Elemental spell trees would allow one mage to waste platoon after platoon of those guys.

[Huntress]

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I sure as hell wouldn't attack a group that may have at most 3 mages without first finding out what their intentions were.

It's unfortunate that Decimus suffers from the rampant stupidity that so many of Hawke's antagonists do - I suppose the writers thought this would make the dichotomy between mages and templars more engaging when it simply reduces the debate susbstantially.

As for the OP, if I was a mage, I would turn to blood magic to survive. Templars can nullify a mage's magical abilities, as we see with Meredith shutting down the Qunari mage's abilities in Act II. It's blood magic that templars can't annul. If it meant the difference between life and death, especially with templars like Ser Alrik and Ser Kerras waiting for me back at the Gallows, I'd use whatever means at my disposal to remain alive.

I agree with Lob, If I was a mage I too will turn to blood magic, hopefully without a demon in my head and
if the time is right it should happens very far from kirkwall... kirkwall's veil is weak so turning to blood magic in the city can have catastrophic consequence for onself. lol

Modifié par Huntress, 12 août 2011 - 07:16 .

[Gervaise]

Force mage was apparently a specialism developed specifically in Kirkwall - perhaps to give an effective counter to the need for blood magic against Templars or anyone else with resistance - not that the Circle would tell the Templars that. Once I had it, I used spells from that tree more than any other, particularly against Templars - suck everyone together into a heap and then hit them with Fist of the Maker - follow through with whatever takes my fancy while they are trying to recover. It is very effective and I don't have to weaken my own health or anyone else's to achieve it. Blood magic really isn't necessary to survive.