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[Foolsfolly]

Wait wait wait, there's an awful lot of information here and I've just read this Page 10.

But one thing just sticks way out.

Darkspawn in canon have tattoos?

That's ****ing retarded. If darkspawn are born of ghouls (Broodmothers) and they have a hive mind then they have no past of individuality to tattoo themselves nor do they have the individuality to do that now.

[TEWR]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Wait wait wait, there's an awful lot of information here and I've just read this Page 10.

But one thing just sticks way out.

Darkspawn in canon have tattoos?

That's ****ing retarded. If darkspawn are born of ghouls (Broodmothers) and they have a hive mind then they have no past of individuality to tattoo themselves nor do they have the individuality to do that now.

Here's the codex on Hurlocks.

Taller than their genlock cousins, the hurlocks are roughly of human-size but are possessed of considerable strength and constitution. The shock troop of the darkspawn, a single berserking hurlock can often be a match for numerous opponents at once. They are known to adorn themselves with roughly-carved tattoos to keep track of their kills and deeds, though it is unknown whether or not there is a uniform standard to these markings.

Alphas

Alpha hurlocks are more intelligent and more skilled fighters, often serving as commanders or even generals. 

Emissaries

Hurlock emissaries have also been known to appear during a Blight[i]. These darkspawn are the only ones recorded as being capable of human speech and are often capable of employing magic.

And if you look at Darkspawn in Origins, you can see how some have this sort of colored marking on their face while others don't.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 26 août 2011 - 06:09 .

[T3H Fish]

I didn't quite get the design changes to the Darkspawn between DA2 and Origins. I thought they looked fine in Origins and in DA2 they just looked... silly. They lost their 'gross scary' feel in DA2 and it was almost like I was fighting just a bunch of Ghouls instead of actual Darkspawn, which wasn't as creepy.

[Foolsfolly]

I don't like the tattoo thing. It really seems to lead weight that they're not brainless which is contradicted by everything else about them.

Now the freed Disciples from Awakening are different. But the "soulless" darkspawn in Origins and DA2? They're mindless murder machines led by a single unifying presence either the Architect (presumably), Mother, Archdemon, or Cori-whatever.

I didn't quite get the design changes to the Darkspawn between DA2 and Origins. I thought they looked fine in Origins and in DA2 they just looked... silly. They lost their 'gross scary' feel in DA2 and it was almost like I was fighting just a bunch of Ghouls instead of actual Darkspawn, which wasn't as creepy.

A lot of people feel that way.

BioWare's in a tough position. The Darkspawn of DA:O were totally orcs and goblins with a different name (and Ogres totally had the same name). In DA2 their design is more based around the fact that they're corruptions of the other races so they looked like diseased humans with terrible pointy armor. In doing that they made them no more threatening than lepers in ridiculous armor.

And in Awakening they looked like Skeletor.

Frankly, none of their designs have been amazing. I prefer the Origins Darkspawn because they looked threatening and strong. But at a glance you see the Lord of the Rings movies and their great orc designs.

I get the feeling they're going to stick with the diseased look (simply because of the lore), just make better models and bring in better looking armors. Something crude and patched together. Not so spiky and weird looking.

[Rifneno]

Foolsfolly wrote...

I don't like the tattoo thing. It really seems to lead weight that they're not brainless which is contradicted by everything else about them.

Really?  Makes sense to me.  The people I know of that have tons of tattoos tend to act like darkspawn.

[TEWR]

Foolsfolly wrote...
And in Awakening they looked like Skeletor.

......wait what?

I got more of a Skeletor vibe from DAII's Darkspawn than DAO's. I thought the Disciple design was actually great.

[T3H Fish]

Darkspawn were never 'human' in the first place, though, so they shouldn't even look anywhere near human aside from just some basic physical similarities so you know 'ok, hurlocks are derived from humans, genlocks from dwarves, shrieks from elves, and ogres from qunari' I got that in Origins once I knew more about the Broodmothers and their creation and function. DA2's design change was just... bad. Bioware tried to hard to make them look 'pretty' when they were perfectly fine being horribly ugly.

[TEWR]

T3H Fish wrote...

Darkspawn were never 'human' in the first place, though, so they shouldn't even look anywhere near human aside from just some basic physical similarities so you know 'ok, hurlocks are derived from humans, genlocks from dwarves, shrieks from elves, and ogres from qunari' I got that in Origins once I knew more about the Broodmothers and their creation and function. DA2's design change was just... bad. Bioware tried to hard to make them look 'pretty' when they were perfectly fine being horribly ugly.

Indeed. The Shrieks in Origins actually kept more in line with the new Elven design than the new design of the shrieks (I can't find the pic of the new design).




Narrow head, ears jutting out to the side, a body structure similar to the new ones. The only thing that should've been removed imo are the.... well I don't know what you'd call them. Those.... things that protrude from the jawline.


Ogres looked better in DAO. Bioware wanted to give the Ogres a more Kossith-esque face, but it ended up being all mushed together. Even worse, the new skin tone doesn't look like the Kossith one. Too much beige. Now, if it was gray I might have a different outlook on it. Completely gray or completely purple would've been fine, and a less mushed up face too. I also prefer the teeth of the DAO Ogres. DAII's, while still sharp, don't look as monstrous to me for an Ogre. Given the choice between DAO's Darkspawn and DAII's, I'll take almost all of DAO's (Genlocks and Hurlock Alphas are the only DAII designs I like).






I've already talked about the Hurlocks.





pretty much sums it up, though I'd prefer one word in there be substituted for another word. Still, it's an accurate description of most of the Darkspawn.

I understand that this is Bioware's game and all, but it's also to an extent our game as well. How can I get the feeling that the Darkspawn are monstrous and horrifying, if they don't promote that sense to me anymore?


But I think we've gotten sidetracked, so.... Darkspawn. The Primeval Thaig Dwarven mages caused the Darkspawn to appear

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 26 août 2011 - 06:04 .

[T3H Fish]

We agree to disagree. Now what were we speculating about earlier? I'm too lazy to read back a page.

[TEWR]

Filament wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Indeed. The Shrieks in Origins actually kept more in line with the new Elven design than the new design of the shrieks (I can't find the pic of the new design).

Say what you want about the new shrieks, but they look like they are the new elves. The old shrieks don't look more like the new elves than the new shrieks. More nonsense.

I really think beyond "more human/less human" we should really stop trying to describe what is the reason we do or don't like the new darkspawn look though. It has ranged from "they look like orcs, orcs suck" to "they don't look like orcs, I want my orcs back" to "they look like zombies, I'm tired of zombies," to "I liked how they looked more like dead decaying zombies before" to etc. etc. It's constantly shifting and contradictory. You don't like the new darkspawn, others see them as a general (but flawed) improvement. Surely we can leave it at that.

I haven't once called the old Darkspawn orcs or zombies. Don't know about other people.

Looking at the picture now, the only thing the new shrieks and the old shrieks have in common is the narrow body structure that the new elves have.





But it's the face of the new Shrieks that don't look like the new elves, at least from what we can see. The old design was closer to the new elven design. Granted, the old shrieks should've dropped those protrusions from the jawline and should have been given a smaller head. The forehead area looks pretty big. But that was all that was needed.

I abhor the new skin tones of the Darkspawn. Pale =/= skeletal white. The old Hurlocks were pale enough, but had dirt, blood, and tattoos on their bodies as well. I also abhor the fact that most of the Darkspawn no longer have sharp teeth.

[TEWR]

We'll have to agree to disagree. I do think the old shrieks looked more elf-y than the new shrieks, but that doesn't mean they were perfectly elf-y. A few tweaks to the old design would've sufficed.

And I have no clue what to call those protrusions from the old shriek's jawline. Or what they even do. Or why they were put on the design in the first place.

[T3H Fish]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

We'll have to agree to disagree. I do think the old shrieks looked more elf-y than the new shrieks, but that doesn't mean they were perfectly elf-y. A few tweaks to the old design would've sufficed.

And I have no clue what to call those protrusions from the old shriek's jawline. Or what they even do. Or why they were put on the design in the first place.

The jar protrusions remind me of a Predator... whic is kinda freaky. Remember these things are born from Broodmothers, so they're bound to be very twisted looking. Maybe elven Broodmothers are affected differently when force-fed the Taint diet, so their spawn come out looking more monstrous... so far, all we've seen is a Dwarven Broodmother and a Human Broodmother. I'd like to see the other two, just out of morbid curiosity.

[Rifneno]

I can sum up my opinion in three words. "New darkspawn suck."

DAO darkspawn were great. Yes, they were a little close to orcs, but so what? Are we now trying to hide the fact that Tolkien pretty much created this genre? We've got his elves, his dwarves, what's wrong with something being similar to orcs? There's no shame in having some similarities to one of the greatest stories ever told.

[Sinaxi]

Rifneno wrote...

I can sum up my opinion in three words. "New darkspawn suck."

DAO darkspawn were great. Yes, they were a little close to orcs, but so what? Are we now trying to hide the fact that Tolkien pretty much created this genre? We've got his elves, his dwarves, what's wrong with something being similar to orcs? There's no shame in having some similarities to one of the greatest stories ever told.

Tolkien is the boss.

[TEWR]

Rifneno wrote...

I can sum up my opinion in three words. "New darkspawn suck."

DAO darkspawn were great. Yes, they were a little close to orcs, but so what? Are we now trying to hide the fact that Tolkien pretty much created this genre? We've got his elves, his dwarves, what's wrong with something being similar to orcs? There's no shame in having some similarities to one of the greatest stories ever told.

You liked the Cucumber Gremlin Genlocks in Origins?!

[Urzon]

The new hurlocks look like they belong in a coffin of a hunted house for Halloween.

All I can think about when i see the new ogres is, "Derp!" Not even a regular derp, it's the Swiss Chef from the Muppets derp. "Derp, derp, derpity derp!"

The new shrieks i don't have much of an opinion on. I liked how they fought in DAO, but i never understood how those could be the darkspawn verison of the elves.

I actually like the new genlocks. We finally get to see darkspawn burst out of the ground. We heard about that so many times, yet we have never seen it before. The only downside for me is that they look like hairless gorillas with some plate on. Maybe they should make it so they could switch between fighting styles. If one wanted to pick up an axe, he could grab one and stand up on his back legs to fight, and some could just stick to fighting on all fours.

[T3H Fish]

T3H Fish wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

We'll have to agree to disagree. I do think the old shrieks looked more elf-y than the new shrieks, but that doesn't mean they were perfectly elf-y. A few tweaks to the old design would've sufficed.

And I have no clue what to call those protrusions from the old shriek's jawline. Or what they even do. Or why they were put on the design in the first place.

The jar protrusions remind me of a Predator... whic is kinda freaky. Remember these things are born from Broodmothers, so they're bound to be very twisted looking. Maybe elven Broodmothers are affected differently when force-fed the Taint diet, so their spawn come out looking more monstrous... so far, all we've seen is a Dwarven Broodmother and a Human Broodmother. I'd like to see the other two, just out of morbid curiosity.

Going back to the jaw protrusions of the Shrieks, let's not forget the 'beauty' known as The Mother from Awakening and her lovely face

[Foolsfolly]

......wait what?

I got more of a Skeletor vibe from DAII's Darkspawn than DAO's. I thought the Disciple design was actually great.

I totally get a Skeletor vibe from the Disciples.

Also I have no problem with the whole orc thing that the old Darkspawn had going for them. I just get the feeling BioWare didn't like people looking at trailers for their game and saying "So medieval fantasy fighting orcs, huh? Never heard of that."

Interestingly, the plot of DA2 had nothing to do with Darkspawn. I really think they didn't like so many people calling them orcs.

[Rifneno]

T3H Fish wrote...

Going back to the jaw protrusions of the Shrieks, let's not forget the 'beauty' known as The Mother from Awakening and her lovely face

Is it safe to assume that "Mother" is short for "Mother in Law"?

[T3H Fish]

She would be one mother-in-law I would never want to visit. Ever.

[Rifneno]

I kind of wish that she had been a Kossith broodmother. It would've made for a Harvester-level hard battle. Oh well, at least she wasn't another dwarven one.

[TEWR]

I find it funny how we're allowed to see 18 breasts on a broodmother, yet we can't see a normal person's breasts.

Hell even Oghren points out the number of boobs on a broodmother

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 27 août 2011 - 11:27 .

[Foolsfolly]

Mass Effect had the Thorian which looks liked testicles with a toothed vagina. No one says anything about that. But they see a second of side boob and an ass cheek and scream on Fox News, "Rape simulator!"

And then their next game had Morrigan putting on a bra to have sex. Which just made me laugh so hard. And then you fight the Broodmother and later the Mother.

I don't know. If it's on a monster, it's not nudity?

...eww... I just thought of a Broodmother nursing Darkspawn. Why the hell are we talking about this?