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[T3H Fish]

Davillo wrote...

I heard somewhere that the new book was supposed to have s setting in orlais and some type of assassin is killing of people in chantry ? idk

That sounds intriguing. I've never actually read the novels, I probably should at some point. Anything to shed some light on what's going on in Thedas would be great.... though was hoping to hear more DLC news.

[Sajuro]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

.People are subsisting solely off of cheese and toasty nug legs!

you whipper snappers today, always wanting bread and mead and shelter<_<
back in my day all we had were cheese and nug legs that weren't even toasty, because it was always raining and the dragons lived in all of the caves so we could never start a fire! We would just sit there waiting for the darkspawn to murder us while we at cheese on cold nugs! When we wanted to drink we didn't have any of your fancy mead or beer, we had to tilt our heads up and open our mouths so the water could fall in and pray no birds shat in our mouths while we were drinking and we liked it! [/ramble ramble]

other note, I may be late to this but I was thinking what if the reason the fade and thedas became seperate was that the taint was created in what is now known as the golden/black/twinkie city as some kind of weapon and mages used a whole lot of blood magic to remove that city from Thedas with a protective barrier and created the fade in the process.

[T3H Fish]

Sajuro wrote...

other note, I may be late to this but I was thinking what if the reason the fade and thedas became seperate was that the taint was created in what is now known as the golden/black/twinkie city as some kind of weapon and mages used a whole lot of blood magic to remove that city from Thedas with a protective barrier and created the fade in the process.

That's an interesting thought. Something had to have created the Taint during whatever event happened in the Golden City that turned it into the Black City. It could be that it was some sort of magi-weapon developed by the Magisters and something just went horribly wrong and something broke in the process.

I'm getting this odd impression that the Taint itself is some sort of parasitic entity. When it infects an Old God, they turn into an Arch Demon and form the Darkspawn into a hive mind, starting the Blight. With no risen Arch Demon, the Darkspawn seem to be dis-organized, yet they actively respond to the 'calling' of an Old God until they find it and repeat the process all over.

I don't think the Old Gods are actually 'gods' but more extremely old and powerful dragons, probably having lived for thousands and thousands of years and possess cunning intelligence and were probably the 'first' magic users. When they were worshipped by humans who came to Thedas, the first Dragon Cult becomes the Tevinter Imperium. Mages were a more common thing amongst the people, both humans and elves (not sure about dwarves). After (or before)the Imperium destroys Arlathan and steals all the Dalish's magic knowledge and subverts them to slavery, SOMETHING happens to seal the 'Old Gods' away, imprisoning them in secret places so the Tevinter loses their leaders. Tevinter falls apart in the face of Andraste's rebellion.

Since dragon worship is still practiced, maybe the Taint is some sort of horribly altered dragon's blood that was intended to help the Magisters find the Old Gods.

Course this is all just pulled out of my ****, but I'm just throwing that idea out there.

Modifié par T3H Fish, 04 septembre 2011 - 07:33 .

[Sajuro]

T3H Fish wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

other note, I may be late to this but I was thinking what if the reason the fade and thedas became seperate was that the taint was created in what is now known as the golden/black/twinkie city as some kind of weapon and mages used a whole lot of blood magic to remove that city from Thedas with a protective barrier and created the fade in the process.

-snipped-
I'm getting this odd impression that the Taint itself is some sort of parasitic entity. When it infects an Old God, they turn into an Arch Demon and form the Darkspawn into a hive mind, starting the Blight. With no risen Arch Demon, the Darkspawn seem to be dis-organized, yet they actively respond to the 'calling' of an Old God until they find it and repeat the process all over.
-snipped-

I may get flogged for bringing this up, but that reminds me of Jenova from Final Fantasy 7 and the taint so to speak she brought with her. Lets say that the taint came from an outside source like in a meteorite since we know people are not opposed to taking things from meteors in Thedas, to keep it from messing the world up the magisters created the fade to put the city in and the spell gave it a golden shimmer. So the world is fine and taint free until some magisters think that it is gold because it is filled with golden things, and golden things are good (old gods may or may not have been involved). And like Jenova being thought to be a Centra, the magisters released the taint and spread it to the rest of Thedas when they were knocked out of the fade and the spell broken causing the golden city to turn black.

Now comes another part, what if the Magisters had doomed Thedas to the blight as soon as they had ripped open the fade to walk through and that is the reason for Sandal's prophecy. The Magisters just brought the blight upon Thedas sooner when they opened the doors, otherwise just entering and leaving one day the veil would tear completely and the golden city would be back where it once was and then we'd get the blight and taint.

[whykikyouwhy]

Sajuro wrote...

T3H Fish wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

other note, I may be late to this but I was thinking what if the reason the fade and thedas became seperate was that the taint was created in what is now known as the golden/black/twinkie city as some kind of weapon and mages used a whole lot of blood magic to remove that city from Thedas with a protective barrier and created the fade in the process.

-snipped-
I'm getting this odd impression that the Taint itself is some sort of parasitic entity. When it infects an Old God, they turn into an Arch Demon and form the Darkspawn into a hive mind, starting the Blight. With no risen Arch Demon, the Darkspawn seem to be dis-organized, yet they actively respond to the 'calling' of an Old God until they find it and repeat the process all over.
-snipped-

I may get flogged for bringing this up, but that reminds me of Jenova from Final Fantasy 7 and the taint so to speak she brought with her. Lets say that the taint came from an outside source like in a meteorite since we know people are not opposed to taking things from meteors in Thedas, to keep it from messing the world up the magisters created the fade to put the city in and the spell gave it a golden shimmer. So the world is fine and taint free until some magisters think that it is gold because it is filled with golden things, and golden things are good (old gods may or may not have been involved). And like Jenova being thought to be a Centra, the magisters released the taint and spread it to the rest of Thedas when they were knocked out of the fade and the spell broken causing the golden city to turn black.

Now comes another part, what if the Magisters had doomed Thedas to the blight as soon as they had ripped open the fade to walk through and that is the reason for Sandal's prophecy. The Magisters just brought the blight upon Thedas sooner when they opened the doors, otherwise just entering and leaving one day the veil would tear completely and the golden city would be back where it once was and then we'd get the blight and taint.

So an original group of magisters created the Fade? And then a later group of magisters, who didn't know what the city-within-the-Fade was, went questing for golden Twinkie goodness? I don't know that magisters were ever powerful enough to create something like the Fade - and thus far, there hasn't been any documentation or narrative unearthed to indicate that they possessed that sort of power. (Incidentally, I'm not up on my FF lore.) From what Corypheus tells us in Legacy, gods, or a god, or something saying it was a god, had something to do in part with the coaxing to get into the city.

I personally think that if the city does exist, it was a Pandora's box. It was never meant to be opened, even for a day trip for photos and souvenirs. So even had they used a "proper" key, if such existed, they still would have unleashed something that was never meant to be unleashed. But then, I lean toward the city, as a Golden City, being somewhat allegorical.

As for the taint being a parasite - that makes some sense. I think this was mentioned in another thread of vast and grand speculations, but it sort of reminds me of the source of vampirism in Anne Rice's books. A demonic entity possessed two rulers, they became the sires for all other vampires and thus, their blood was the strongest (like the first darkspawns or the archdemons), they went dormant, etc and so forth. And maybe the "song", the hum of old gods, is just an instinctual summoning/luring/movement to the source - all the weaker bits migrate to the center, sort of thing.

[T3H Fish]

It's just one of those 'what if' thoughts I had. The Taint allows the Darkspawn to communicate in a telepathic like function with the Darkspawn, or even the Tainted Magisters. In it's 'true' form, it can't function or maybe not even survive without a host body and like a demon, it's drawn to great sources of power.

Maybe the Golden City was a prison for some 'greater' evil that once haunted Thedas and over time, the presence of whatever it was protecting corrupted it to turn it into the Black City. Corypheus's ramblings mention that the city was already Tainted when he and the other Magisters find it and the Black City itself is basically isolated from the rest of the Fade. Maybe the whole point of the Golden City was to keep something trapped within the Fade, but since the Magisters found a way to it, they opened a breach in the city's defenses, giving birth to the Taint.

Going along this train of thought, maybe whatever is trapped within the Black City is using the Taint to raise the Arch Demons to help free itself, or stirring up its own brand of trouble but rousing the dragons.

[Sajuro]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

T3H Fish wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

other note, I may be late to this but I was thinking what if the reason the fade and thedas became seperate was that the taint was created in what is now known as the golden/black/twinkie city as some kind of weapon and mages used a whole lot of blood magic to remove that city from Thedas with a protective barrier and created the fade in the process.

-snipped-
I'm getting this odd impression that the Taint itself is some sort of parasitic entity. When it infects an Old God, they turn into an Arch Demon and form the Darkspawn into a hive mind, starting the Blight. With no risen Arch Demon, the Darkspawn seem to be dis-organized, yet they actively respond to the 'calling' of an Old God until they find it and repeat the process all over.
-snipped-

I may get flogged for bringing this up, but that reminds me of Jenova from Final Fantasy 7 and the taint so to speak she brought with her. Lets say that the taint came from an outside source like in a meteorite since we know people are not opposed to taking things from meteors in Thedas, to keep it from messing the world up the magisters created the fade to put the city in and the spell gave it a golden shimmer. So the world is fine and taint free until some magisters think that it is gold because it is filled with golden things, and golden things are good (old gods may or may not have been involved). And like Jenova being thought to be a Centra, the magisters released the taint and spread it to the rest of Thedas when they were knocked out of the fade and the spell broken causing the golden city to turn black.

Now comes another part, what if the Magisters had doomed Thedas to the blight as soon as they had ripped open the fade to walk through and that is the reason for Sandal's prophecy. The Magisters just brought the blight upon Thedas sooner when they opened the doors, otherwise just entering and leaving one day the veil would tear completely and the golden city would be back where it once was and then we'd get the blight and taint.

So an original group of magisters created the Fade? And then a later group of magisters, who didn't know what the city-within-the-Fade was, went questing for golden Twinkie goodness? I don't know that magisters were ever powerful enough to create something like the Fade - and thus far, there hasn't been any documentation or narrative unearthed to indicate that they possessed that sort of power. (Incidentally, I'm not up on my FF lore.) From what Corypheus tells us in Legacy, gods, or a god, or something saying it was a god, had something to do in part with the coaxing to get into the city.

I personally think that if the city does exist, it was a Pandora's box. It was never meant to be opened, even for a day trip for photos and souvenirs. So even had they used a "proper" key, if such existed, they still would have unleashed something that was never meant to be unleashed. But then, I lean toward the city, as a Golden City, being somewhat allegorical.

As for the taint being a parasite - that makes some sense. I think this was mentioned in another thread of vast and grand speculations, but it sort of reminds me of the source of vampirism in Anne Rice's books. A demonic entity possessed two rulers, they became the sires for all other vampires and thus, their blood was the strongest (like the first darkspawns or the archdemons), they went dormant, etc and so forth. And maybe the "song", the hum of old gods, is just an instinctual summoning/luring/movement to the source - all the weaker bits migrate to the center, sort of thing.

Just called them magisters for lack of a better term, it could have been gods or the ancient race of the plot device-inians (leaving behind the weapon from legacy known as the Key of Plot Advancement) I agree with your theory for the most part but I want to answer how the fade became like it was and if everything is going to go back to the way it was as per Sandal's prophecy, how was it in the beginning and how did it become like it is?

New thought, if the prophecy is speaking of an Armageddon of sorts would that mean that everything going back to the way it was would be like the end of Ragnorak when the two survivors climb down from the tree to start the world anew? Will there be some crazy time loop involved? Will Bioware ever release a sequel to Jade Empire?

[T3H Fish]

Sajuro wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

T3H Fish wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

other note, I may be late to this but I was thinking what if the reason the fade and thedas became seperate was that the taint was created in what is now known as the golden/black/twinkie city as some kind of weapon and mages used a whole lot of blood magic to remove that city from Thedas with a protective barrier and created the fade in the process.

-snipped-
I'm getting this odd impression that the Taint itself is some sort of parasitic entity. When it infects an Old God, they turn into an Arch Demon and form the Darkspawn into a hive mind, starting the Blight. With no risen Arch Demon, the Darkspawn seem to be dis-organized, yet they actively respond to the 'calling' of an Old God until they find it and repeat the process all over.
-snipped-

I may get flogged for bringing this up, but that reminds me of Jenova from Final Fantasy 7 and the taint so to speak she brought with her. Lets say that the taint came from an outside source like in a meteorite since we know people are not opposed to taking things from meteors in Thedas, to keep it from messing the world up the magisters created the fade to put the city in and the spell gave it a golden shimmer. So the world is fine and taint free until some magisters think that it is gold because it is filled with golden things, and golden things are good (old gods may or may not have been involved). And like Jenova being thought to be a Centra, the magisters released the taint and spread it to the rest of Thedas when they were knocked out of the fade and the spell broken causing the golden city to turn black.

Now comes another part, what if the Magisters had doomed Thedas to the blight as soon as they had ripped open the fade to walk through and that is the reason for Sandal's prophecy. The Magisters just brought the blight upon Thedas sooner when they opened the doors, otherwise just entering and leaving one day the veil would tear completely and the golden city would be back where it once was and then we'd get the blight and taint.

So an original group of magisters created the Fade? And then a later group of magisters, who didn't know what the city-within-the-Fade was, went questing for golden Twinkie goodness? I don't know that magisters were ever powerful enough to create something like the Fade - and thus far, there hasn't been any documentation or narrative unearthed to indicate that they possessed that sort of power. (Incidentally, I'm not up on my FF lore.) From what Corypheus tells us in Legacy, gods, or a god, or something saying it was a god, had something to do in part with the coaxing to get into the city.

I personally think that if the city does exist, it was a Pandora's box. It was never meant to be opened, even for a day trip for photos and souvenirs. So even had they used a "proper" key, if such existed, they still would have unleashed something that was never meant to be unleashed. But then, I lean toward the city, as a Golden City, being somewhat allegorical.

As for the taint being a parasite - that makes some sense. I think this was mentioned in another thread of vast and grand speculations, but it sort of reminds me of the source of vampirism in Anne Rice's books. A demonic entity possessed two rulers, they became the sires for all other vampires and thus, their blood was the strongest (like the first darkspawns or the archdemons), they went dormant, etc and so forth. And maybe the "song", the hum of old gods, is just an instinctual summoning/luring/movement to the source - all the weaker bits migrate to the center, sort of thing.

Just called them magisters for lack of a better term, it could have been gods or the ancient race of the plot device-inians (leaving behind the weapon from legacy known as the Key of Plot Advancement) I agree with your theory for the most part but I want to answer how the fade became like it was and if everything is going to go back to the way it was as per Sandal's prophecy, how was it in the beginning and how did it become like it is?

New thought, if the prophecy is speaking of an Armageddon of sorts would that mean that everything going back to the way it was would be like the end of Ragnorak when the two survivors climb down from the tree to start the world anew? Will there be some crazy time loop involved? Will Bioware ever release a sequel to Jade Empire?

Reminds me of the basis of the story to Tales of Symphonia, a world that had once been one large chunk was divided in two and no one knew about it except for the people who divided it in the first place and a few scattered myths. The Fade and the Golden City may have been part of Thedas at some point in time, but maybe whatever 'corrupted' the Golden City in the first place forced it to be seperated, creating the Fade. Maybe in that time, everyone could do magic and after the division took place, the races began loosing thier abilities until the magi population shrank to what it is now.

Mages are fully aware and concious within the Fade and those with strong enough Wills are capable of manipulating it and even their own self-perception within the Fade, so perhaps the Fade was created by mages and it's current appearance represents what the world may have looked like as 'whole'... though I'd imagine without all the twisted spires and broken landscape island things.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

Take a good look at a Hurlock Alpha's legs. They most certainly look like a human's legs.  Especially from the back side where their armor doesn't cover their legs.  Look at their backs and also the regular Hurlocks Bolters and Grunts.  Same with the new genlocks.  Their skin looks human or I guess you could say living flesh.   Look at the hands and the elbows in the photo above.  Looks human to me.

If a warden or someone is tainted and their is a magical way for them to turn into darkspawn, then maybe with their death they enter the fade and they are sent back to the real word as darkspawn.  This would coinside with what Duncan says at the mirror.   This also connects with Merrills mirror and a demon can also come through. 

What if darkspawn are demons that are tainted and they are coming through the veil, somehow, somewhere? 

I can't really talk about the body below the head because Origins' Darkspawn were the same.

As for your point about demons, Avernus tells us that they know nothing about the taint and the only place that has any connection to the taint is the Black City, which demons and spirits don't go to.

True from the codex and ingame convos.  Yet remember what Sophia Dryden looked like.  She was possessed by a demon.  It appeared that the demon was also tainted because of her being a Grey Warden in life.  Demons and spirits both pass into the living world through the veil.  Once they gain entrance to the living realm I'm thinking that demons can become tainted by who they possess or who they are fighting, especially another tainted creature.  Once a demon is killed in the living world and if they possessed a tainted being or creature then I imagine that they go back to the fade.    Which would bring the taint to the fade, I don't think demons have to avoid the tainted black city for this to happen. 

Darkspawn are connected to the fade somehow, Wynne tells us this at Ostagar.  Wynne also said during the broken circle quest that everyone who enters the fade is changed.  She also said that the darkspawn are the twisted reflection of the men that they once were.  Notice reference to reflection, which suggests mirror.  We also know that the taint has something to do with blood magic.  Which Avernus also mentioned.  Merrill cleaned the shard for her mirror with blood magic, which a demon told her to do.  So the demon knew the shard and the mirror was tainted.   So demons have to know about the taint even if they don't understand it.  I don't think Avernus knows everything in regards to the taint and blood magic.  I would hazard a guess and say that he learned alot.  I'm wondering if Avernus was close to curing the taint with bloodmagic and this seems to be the case when he prolonged his life to stop the calling.  Merrill also seemed to stumble upon a way to cure the taint and this came from the demon.  So demons know something about it. 

What if demons are possessing the soul/spirit of dead wardens in the fade and this is what is creating the darkspawn and they are returning somehow in the deep roads through a tear in the veil in the deep roads such as the primal thaig.  This would also explain why dwarves saw darkspawn first.

@ Filament,

Yes, sort of like the wall thing in NWN when you get killed you return to the land of the living.  I miss playing NWN.    

[T3H Fish]

Is it safe to assume that the Grey Wardens are a type of Dragon Cult? I mean... part of the Joining ritual involves using the Arch Demon blood, combined with Darkspawn blood and magically treated in some way by a mage.

Maybe the founders of the Grey Wardens, or at least some of the first generation, were Dragon Cultists who combined Darkspawn blood with their rituals, then later incorporated the Arch Demon's blood after the first was slain.... though I question how they collect the blood if the Arch Demon super-novas when it dies.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Doesn't a Dragon Cult actually need to worship a dragon?

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

T3H Fish wrote...

Is it safe to assume that the Grey Wardens are a type of Dragon Cult? I mean... part of the Joining ritual involves using the Arch Demon blood, combined with Darkspawn blood and magically treated in some way by a mage.

Maybe the founders of the Grey Wardens, or at least some of the first generation, were Dragon Cultists who combined Darkspawn blood with their rituals, then later incorporated the Arch Demon's blood after the first was slain.... though I question how they collect the blood if the Arch Demon super-novas when it dies.

I think there is a codex somewhere that hints that the Grey Wardens do indeed worship the Arch Demon or dragons.  I think something comes up in DA2 or Legacy on this and I recently returned to a DAO playthrough and Bodan at camp tells of many people in Ferelden who believe that the Grey Wardens also worship the Arch Demon.

I do agree this would be a dragon blood cult of some kind and I guess with wardens drinking darkspawn blood they could be considered a blood cult like the blood cult reavers at the urn.

[T3H Fish]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

T3H Fish wrote...

Is it safe to assume that the Grey Wardens are a type of Dragon Cult? I mean... part of the Joining ritual involves using the Arch Demon blood, combined with Darkspawn blood and magically treated in some way by a mage.

Maybe the founders of the Grey Wardens, or at least some of the first generation, were Dragon Cultists who combined Darkspawn blood with their rituals, then later incorporated the Arch Demon's blood after the first was slain.... though I question how they collect the blood if the Arch Demon super-novas when it dies.

I think there is a codex somewhere that hints that the Grey Wardens do indeed worship the Arch Demon or dragons.  I think something comes up in DA2 or Legacy on this and I recently returned to a DAO playthrough and Bodan at camp tells of many people in Ferelden who believe that the Grey Wardens also worship the Arch Demon.

I do agree this would be a dragon blood cult of some kind and I guess with wardens drinking darkspawn blood they could be considered a blood cult like the blood cult reavers at the urn.

Huh, didn't know Bodhan mentions that, I'll have to listen more carefully to what he says.

If you think about it, the Grey Wardens 'worship' the Arch Demon in a very ambiguous way. Because of the abilities granted by drinking the Joining cocktail, they are linked to the Darkspawn 'hive' mind, which connects them to the Arch Demon itself, when risen. Over-time, a Grey Warden starts to fall under the sway of the Calling and eventually either dies in battle or turns into a Ghoul to serve them.

Course now that I say that, the Darkspawn could be considered a Dragon Cult as well... I think the devs need to go a little deeper with this 'Dragon Cult' theme that is cropping up more and more. I bet it has a connection with the sudden rise in activity of the dragons around Thedas.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

@T3H Fish

That is very interesting your thought...more dragons being around due to more dragon blood cult activity. I never thought of that. Makes sense.

[TEWR]

T3H Fish wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

T3H Fish wrote...

Is it safe to assume that the Grey Wardens are a type of Dragon Cult? I mean... part of the Joining ritual involves using the Arch Demon blood, combined with Darkspawn blood and magically treated in some way by a mage.

Maybe the founders of the Grey Wardens, or at least some of the first generation, were Dragon Cultists who combined Darkspawn blood with their rituals, then later incorporated the Arch Demon's blood after the first was slain.... though I question how they collect the blood if the Arch Demon super-novas when it dies.

I think there is a codex somewhere that hints that the Grey Wardens do indeed worship the Arch Demon or dragons.  I think something comes up in DA2 or Legacy on this and I recently returned to a DAO playthrough and Bodan at camp tells of many people in Ferelden who believe that the Grey Wardens also worship the Arch Demon.

I do agree this would be a dragon blood cult of some kind and I guess with wardens drinking darkspawn blood they could be considered a blood cult like the blood cult reavers at the urn.

Huh, didn't know Bodhan mentions that, I'll have to listen more carefully to what he says.

If you think about it, the Grey Wardens 'worship' the Arch Demon in a very ambiguous way. Because of the abilities granted by drinking the Joining cocktail, they are linked to the Darkspawn 'hive' mind, which connects them to the Arch Demon itself, when risen. Over-time, a Grey Warden starts to fall under the sway of the Calling and eventually either dies in battle or turns into a Ghoul to serve them.

Course now that I say that, the Darkspawn could be considered a Dragon Cult as well... I think the devs need to go a little deeper with this 'Dragon Cult' theme that is cropping up more and more. I bet it has a connection with the sudden rise in activity of the dragons around Thedas.

Strangely, during or after the First Blight (bear in mind I can't remember which) humans did in fact worship the Darkspawn, as a Codex entry stated.

Don't ask me why they would do that. Doesn't seem like they'd have much of a prosperous life to worship anything by trying to worship the Darkspawn.

[Satyricon331]

Where are these codex entries, and also, how do you get Bodhan to say that?

[TEWR]

Satyricon331 wrote...

Where are these codex entries, and also, how do you get Bodhan to say that?

Regarding Darkspawn worship:


The crowds present at the death of Andraste were right to feel despair. It is believed that the prophet's execution angered the Maker, and He turned His back on humanity once more, leaving the people of Thedas to suffer in the dark.

In these dark times, mankind scrambled for a light, any light. Some found comfort in demonic cults that promised power and riches in return for worship. Others prayed to the Old Gods for forgiveness, begging the great dragons to return to the world. Still others fell so low as to worship the darkspawn, forming vile cults dedicated to the exaltation of evil in its purest form. It is said that the world wept as its people begged for a savior who would not come.

............


--From Tales of the Destruction of Thedas, by Brother Genitivi, Chantry scholar.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


As for Bodahn, just talk to him (or any bartender) about rumors and eventually he'll say it. People think that the Grey Wardens are the ones who awoke the Archdemon and worship them in a religious fashion or some such nonsense.

Though T3H Fish brings up a good point as they do worship the Archdemon in a way, but it's not actually worship unless they become ghoulified. And even then, would they seek out the Darkspawn to serve them or to fight them like Larius was trying to do?

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 11 septembre 2011 - 03:08 .

[Satyricon331]

Thanks Ethereal. Though for the codexes, I meant the ones that indicate the Grey Wardens worship the archdemon (I should have been more specific). I'm sure all sorts of nonsense is going on at Weisshaupt, but actual archdemon worship is a new one on me and I'd have to have some sort of evidence.

[TEWR]

Satyricon331 wrote...

Thanks Ethereal. Though for the codexes, I meant the ones that indicate the Grey Wardens worship the archdemon (I should have been more specific). I'm sure all sorts of nonsense is going on at Weisshaupt, but actual archdemon worship is a new one on me and I'd have to have some sort of evidence.

Aside from the rumor mentioned by Bodahn or other bartenders and the "worship" that a Ghoul Warden may do, I don't think there really is any codex.

Though it would make some sort of sense for them to have worshipped the Archdemons in the beginning and thinking that by taking in the Darkspawn blood in sufficient quantity alongside lyrium they'd have a strong connection to the being that they worship, perhaps because they think the Old God has achieved a greater sense of perfection and has freed himself from the earth. But they see the Darkspawn as things that need to be destroyed.

And then eventually they realize that the Archdemon isn't exactly interested in being nice, and is really something that needs to be killed.

Thus you have the Grey Wardens.

[Satyricon331]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Aside from the rumor mentioned by Bodahn or other bartenders and the "worship" that a Ghoul Warden may do, I don't think there really is any codex.

Though it would make some sort of sense for them to have worshipped the Archdemons in the beginning and thinking that by taking in the Darkspawn blood in sufficient quantity alongside lyrium they'd have a strong connection to the being that they worship, perhaps because they think the Old God has achieved a greater sense of perfection and has freed himself from the earth. But they see the Darkspawn as things that need to be destroyed.

And then eventually they realize that the Archdemon isn't exactly interested in being nice, and is really something that needs to be killed.

Thus you have the Grey Wardens.

That's a great idea as I haven't seen any plausible explanation as to how they seized upon the idea of drinking blood before.  Still, it strikes me as a little strange that they wouldn't have made the connection between the archdemon and the darkspawn by then (it was 90 years into the Blight according to the Grey Warden codex entry, admittedly by a Chantry scholar), but maybe I'm just tired.

Also, if you believe that codex entry's account, I wonder what the significance is that while before, the Old Gods were silent and withdrawn, whereas iirc now Hawke can give an offering to Dumat and receive a trinket in exchange (in the Legacy DLC).  

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

@ Ethreal Writer Redux

Yeah, I didn't get that either why someone would turn to a cult that worshipped darkspawn. Darkspawn wish to destroy humanity as a whole. The only reason that I can think of is that the darkspawn won't attack and kill them. Remember the deal the Qunari had with the darkspawn in the Silverite Mine. Shrugging shoulders here.

@ Satyicon331

The developers have never revealed how the Grey Wardens from the first blight figured this out. One of the biggest mysteries in the game. Nobody knows at this point to offer an explanation.  Wild speculation abounds so take your pick. 

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 11 septembre 2011 - 07:14 .

[TEWR]

The Architect must've figured out a way for Darkspawn to live side by side with humans without tainting them at all, since Armaas says he was promised protection from the corruption. And I doubt his protection is what Seranni has, as he must've been doing business with the Darkspawn for a while and would've no doubt contracted the same complexion Seranni did. I think it's a complete protection.

I do find it interesting though how Seranni and Utha aren't your typical Ghouls, in that they aren't Ghouls. They certainly have the complexion, but not the mindset.

Perhaps one day, he could figure out a way for the land to not be tainted as well, though certain Dwarven enchantments are able to make something resistant to Darkspawn corruption.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

@ Ethereal

He had too and I'm wondering if he figured out a way to cheat death since he seems to be alive even if you killed him by what Nathaniel says in the deep roads or have they fixed this bug yet? Most of my wardens kill him and I've got one warden who didn't.

The Northern Prickle Weed Quest in DAA sort of hints there is a way to revive the land.

[T3H Fish]

Satyricon331 wrote...

Thanks Ethereal. Though for the codexes, I meant the ones that indicate the Grey Wardens worship the archdemon (I should have been more specific). I'm sure all sorts of nonsense is going on at Weisshaupt, but actual archdemon worship is a new one on me and I'd have to have some sort of evidence.

I doubt the Grey Wardens actually out-right worship the Arch Demons, since they are sworn enemies basically, but the fact the Taint corrupts the Grey Wardens into Ghouls or even death, their mind starts becoming obssessed with finding or serving the Arch Demon, whether risen or slumbering.

As to the Grey Warden's origins, I'm still leaning towards the idea that the first Grey Wardens were dragon cultists. The blood ritual that makes Revears already existed and when the First Blight started, they probably thought incoporating Darkspawn blood would increase their strength even more, as well as grant immunity to the Taint itself. I'm sure intial Joinings had very high mortality rates and the Grey Wardens that did survive probably didn't live for very long after the fact. Since Arch Demon blood is incorporated in the Joining in the later generations of Grey Wardens, it's not too far-fetched to connect the roots of the Grey Wardens to the dragon cults (and blood magic, if you want to go that far), though they don't worship dragons, they still drink dragon's blood... which still boggles me how they collect it. Is there any codex or anything Riordan says in-game that mentions how they gather the Arch Demon's blood?