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[Herr Uhl]

Rifneno wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

The Leliana's Song DLC plays out quite a bit differently than the tale she tells the Warden. In Darkspawn Chronicles, her codex notes rumors that she's sleeping with Alistair. Since there's not even a hint of anything between them in the regular game, that implies she's trying to get close to whoever the lead warden is.

I don't remember her trying to seduce anyone without a prompt.

Well she wasn't Zevran, but I do think she was definitely testing the waters with some of the things like starting a conversation with a female Warden saying "Have I ever told you I really like your hair?"  Trying to seduce?  No.  But I do think she wanted the Warden to know if they're interested, she's interested.

I think the reason for that Alistair and Leliana didn't get as close with the warden could be that every companion in DAO comes to the warden with their problems, without that person, who would they bring it to? Alistair leans on the warden, who else in the group would he lean on? The likely suspects are Wynne, Dog and Leliana.

[esper]

Rifneno wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

The Leliana's Song DLC plays out quite a bit differently than the tale she tells the Warden. In Darkspawn Chronicles, her codex notes rumors that she's sleeping with Alistair. Since there's not even a hint of anything between them in the regular game, that implies she's trying to get close to whoever the lead warden is.

I don't remember her trying to seduce anyone without a prompt.

Well she wasn't Zevran, but I do think she was definitely testing the waters with some of the things like starting a conversation with a female Warden saying "Have I ever told you I really like your hair?"  Trying to seduce?  No.  But I do think she wanted the Warden to know if they're interested, she's interested.

Less not forget the ninjamance bug that sometimes happened.
Leliana in the middle of Orzamar: You said that what was between you and Zev was just fun, but... bla... bla.. bla.. rant... rant... rant..
Warden completely confused because she has never talked with Leli about Zevran before.

On the serious note I no longer trust Leliana. On the other hand if she was a spy, she was a good one in relation to the warden and a terrible one in relation to the Champion.
And the hair thing with the female warden is definitly a come on.  

[Rifneno]

[quote]Herr Uhl wrote...

Well she wasn't Zevran, but I do think she was definitely testing the waters with some of the things like starting a conversation with a female Warden saying "Have I ever told you I really like your hair?"  Trying to seduce?  No.  But I do think she wanted the Warden to know if they're interested, she's interested.[/quote]

I think the reason for that Alistair and Leliana didn't get as close with the warden could be that every companion in DAO comes to the warden with their problems, without that person, who would they bring it to? Alistair leans on the warden, who else in the group would he lean on? The likely suspects are Wynne, Dog and Leliana.[/quote]

That's quite possible, of course. It's not a smoking gun by any means. It's more of a bunch of little oddities adding up. Although the Seeker's Circle and her big personality change in DA2 aren't little things I guess.

[T3H Fish]

Rifneno wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Well she wasn't Zevran, but I do think she was definitely testing the waters with some of the things like starting a conversation with a female Warden saying "Have I ever told you I really like your hair?"  Trying to seduce?  No.  But I do think she wanted the Warden to know if they're interested, she's interested.

I think the reason for that Alistair and Leliana didn't get as close with the warden could be that every companion in DAO comes to the warden with their problems, without that person, who would they bring it to? Alistair leans on the warden, who else in the group would he lean on? The likely suspects are Wynne, Dog and Leliana.

That's quite possible, of course. It's not a smoking gun by any means. It's more of a bunch of little oddities adding up. Although the Seeker's Circle and her big personality change in DA2 aren't little things I guess.

Yes, a lot of little oddities. I think her personality change was more reverting back to what she was prior to Origins, when she took her barding seriously. Of course bits of her Origins personality sneak out depending on import save and dialoge branches followed. Still... she does kinda go out of her way to seduce the Hero of Ferelden from the get go... sneaky bard.

Modifié par T3H Fish, 12 août 2011 - 04:17 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

There are lots of differences between the Darkspawn Chronicles and the main game and I don't think they are really supposed to mean anything in relation to the canon story: such as Herren being a desire demon or Allister wiping out the dalish clan to get the werewolves in his army.

As far as Leliana's Song goes, I really just thought that was just either Bioware retconing what happened or whoever writing the DLC doing a lousy job of getting the story of what she said right.

It's completely different from what she tells you as far as the general series of events goes, but the basic idea behind the story is the same as what she told you.

"She worked for Marjoline, the woman she loved. Marjoline betrayed her. She escaped from being tortured and eventually ran away to the Chantry."

I can't think of anything that she'd be deliberating keeping from the Warden with her story in DAO. Nothing seems worth hiding from that story.

[Huntress]

leliana was sent to spy the warden's and see if they truely posses a threat to the chantry or thedas ( as an order) She never stop believing on her religion, she leave the warden when she is called upon what's happening in Kirkwall, leliana when asked she said: is in the pass..but she called herself a bard.
"Bards follow an Orlesian tradition, acting as assassins, spies, saboteurs and following other secretive pursuits in the constant, and sometimes petty, struggles between nobles. Having taken the minstrel's art to new levels, bards are skilled performers and master manipulators".

Leliana amulet:

Accessory

Seeker's Circle[/b]



Type:
Amulet

Restriction:
Leliana


Stats:
+1 cunning
+10 mental resistance


Value:
1 20 0


Description:
A wheel representing the Maker's unending patience and
Andraste's unquenchable passion. Simple and inspirational, though
uncommon outside the Chantry. A gift meant to be given without
conditions.

Appearances:
Dragon Age: Origins

Modifié par Huntress, 12 août 2011 - 06:27 .

[whykikyouwhy]

I don't think her amulet is tied to the *order* of the Seekers so much as being symbolic to the chantry itself. The description text makes it seem like something that the faithful can pick up in the gift shop with their chantry robes - a mark of the faith.

For as secretive as the order of the Seekers is, I doubt that their jewelry or accessories would be so obvious and telling. But that's just my take.

Perhaps the mention of "seekers" in the item was meant to be foreshadowing only.

[T3H Fish]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

I don't think her amulet is tied to the *order* of the Seekers so much as being symbolic to the chantry itself. The description text makes it seem like something that the faithful can pick up in the gift shop with their chantry robes - a mark of the faith.

For as secretive as the order of the Seekers is, I doubt that their jewelry or accessories would be so obvious and telling. But that's just my take.

Perhaps the mention of "seekers" in the item was meant to be foreshadowing only.

I would have to agree, I think the amulet was only intended as foreshadowing for Leliana and isn't directly tied to the Seekers themselves. It's an interesting detail regardless though.

Speaking of the Seekers, is it ever really explained why their banners suddenly turned up in the Qunari Compound in Act 3? I take it from the fact that the area is sealed off means they are doing something fairly important and secretive like, but what could the Quanri have left there when the only important thing to them was the Book, which they get back or not, depending if your Isabella backstabbed you or not.

[BigEvil]

I believe the banners in the Qunari compound in Act 3 are simply Chantry banners, the Seekers use very similar symbols to the normal Chantry ones but I'd imagine the banners would match the armour. IIRC the ones in the compound are red and gold, while Seeker banners (if they would have something so high profile) would be black and silver.

I could be remembering the banners we see there incorrectly though.

Modifié par BigEvil, 12 août 2011 - 08:06 .

[T3H Fish]

BigEvil wrote...

I believe the banners in the Qunari compound in Act 3 are simply Chantry banners, the Seekers use very similar symbols to the normal Chantry ones but I'd imagine the banners would match the armour. IIRC the ones in the compound are red and gold, while Seeker banners (if they would have something so high profile) would be black and silver.

I could be remembering the banners we see there incorrectly though.

"During Act 3 in the docks, you can see fortifications in the now closed-off Qunari Compound where a symbol of (presumably) the Seekers is visible, foreshadowing their interest in the events at Kirkwall."
-Dragon Age Wiki

You could be right, and it's just a matter of similarity, but then Divine Justina V didn't seem to take any interest in Kirkwall until Act 3. From what I've read, the Seekers are suppose to be 'watching' over the Templars, to be sure they don't over-step their bounds... which of course Meredith was doing, so that would be a viable explaination for their sudden involvement.

[T3H Fish]

T3H Fish wrote...

BigEvil wrote...

I believe the banners in the Qunari compound in Act 3 are simply Chantry banners, the Seekers use very similar symbols to the normal Chantry ones but I'd imagine the banners would match the armour. IIRC the ones in the compound are red and gold, while Seeker banners (if they would have something so high profile) would be black and silver.

I could be remembering the banners we see there incorrectly though.

"During Act 3 in the docks, you can see fortifications in the now closed-off Qunari Compound where a symbol of (presumably) the Seekers is visible, foreshadowing their interest in the events at Kirkwall."
-Dragon Age Wiki

You could be right, and it's just a matter of similarity, but then Divine Justina V didn't seem to take any interest in Kirkwall until Act 3. From what I've read, the Seekers are suppose to be 'watching' over the Templars, to be sure they don't over-step their bounds... which of course Meredith was doing, so that would be a viable explaination for their sudden involvement.

Also forgot to note that the Seekers also are responsible for hunting down the craftier and more dangerous maleficar that the Templars can't handle. According to a DA2 Codex entry, the Seeker Order isn't all that 'secretive' within the scope of the Chantry, since it would seem Templars who have high-rankings or been in the Order for a while are at least, albiet somewhat, aware of their existence and purpose.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Seekers as an order isn't secretive. What they do, is secret though.

[Sepewrath]

Well with Leliana she died in a magical tomb, her being alive after being killed in a tomb with a bunch of spirits bouncing around and such, doesn't strike me as odd. If you left her in Lothering, there is no reason to assume she died, she was clearly very capable of surviving on her own, even Sten could have survived if you left him in the cage. If not with the Warden she could have been doing anything during the events of Origins, that with her knowing Dorothea could have impacted her becoming Nightengale and then a Seeker.

I don't think any of the Wardens would be canon, its just some have more background ties to the story than the others. Merrill and the Hawke family links two of the Wardens, but I don't think it makes either of them anymore of a canon character. And I think Leliana and Cassandra are talking about the Awakening Warden, it is confusing, because Awakening contradicts some of the endings in Origins, then you throw in Witch Hunt and that only makes it worst.

And I doubt Flemeth is an Old God, I have a hard time believing those things even exist, what is this Greece, with 500 gods running around? I'm sure just for the sake of upholding the fantasy angle, some kind of god like figure will exist and be central to this series. However I don't think Flemeth is one, turning into a dragon is no different than Morrigan turning into a wolf or a rabbit or anything of the sort. Since High Dragons were common before Nevarra went nuts on them, I can believe she just learned it from them. Especially since the Dragons seem capable of communicating with people. I'm sure Flemeth has a big role to play in this, but I don't think it will be as an Old God.

[TEWR]

I highly expect Sten to become the new Arishok (the old one is either dead, or retires and nominates Sten in his place). And return with a goatee.

Sten being alive actually would make sense. Even Leliana says that no one deserves to be locked up awaiting the fate Sten was. So I can see him being let out and looking first for his sword Asala, and then returning to Seheron after the Blight was finished (it was his duty to learn about the Blight)

I remember some mods of Sten that tried to make him look more like SA Sten. Can anyone post a picture for me?

[Rifneno]

Sepewrath wrote...

And I doubt Flemeth is an Old God, I have a hard time believing those things even exist, what is this Greece, with 500 gods running around?

1) A religion with one omnipotent deity? What is this, 2000 AD? Most ancient religions had "500 gods running around." The Chantry is the odd ball out, not the other way around.
2) The old gods clearly exist, as they're archdemons. In Awakening it's even revealed that the Architect is the one who awoke the old god Urthemiel and accidentally began the Fifth Blight when his attempts to make an archdemon sentient epic failed. Visually, they're similar to high dragons, but dragons can't do magic. Or communicate.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I highly expect Sten to become the new Arishok (the old one is either dead, or retires and nominates Sten in his place). And return with a goatee.

Sten being alive actually would make sense. Even Leliana says that no one deserves to be locked up awaiting the fate Sten was. So I can see him being let out and looking first for his sword Asala, and then returning to Seheron after the Blight was finished (it was his duty to learn about the Blight)

Sten didn't want to leave, he thought he deserved to stay in the cage and die for his crimes. He also thinks even looking for his sword is stupid and pointless and is amazed when the Warden finds it. As for that piece of crap the Arishok, he can't retire because he can't return to Par Vollen. The incompetent terrorist ****** gets the tome stolen by Isabela AGAIN. I can't believe the Qunari are such a threat when that bumbling idiot is the best they have to offer.

[TEWR]

Sten can be convinced that atonement can be found in other ways. It's not a stretch to assume that Leliana convinced him of this, or that she convinced him to at least look for his sword.

As for Isabela, isn't Varric unsure if Isabela's escaping with the Tome is actually true? Even if it is, he might just give up and say "**** this ****, I'm going Tal-Vashoth now"


EDIT: Or he might even kill himself because he failed the Qun.

1) A religion with one omnipotent deity? What is this, 2000 AD? Most ancient religions had "500 gods running around." The Chantry is the odd ball out, not the other way around.
2) The old gods clearly exist, as they're archdemons. In Awakening it's even revealed that the Architect is the one who awoke the old god Urthemiel and accidentally began the Fifth Blight when his attempts to make an archdemon sentient epic failed. Visually, they're similar to high dragons, but dragons can't do magic. Or communicate.

Actually dragons can do blood magic. The dragon bosses in the Silverite mine can use it.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 13 août 2011 - 02:33 .

[Macropodmum]

I would assume being that the qun seem to have predetermined occupations that there would already be another Arishok waiting in the wings, Sten is what he is and cannot change what that is without becoming Tal Vashoth?

[TEWR]

There are promotions within Qunari society. A Sten is basically a commander, and the Arishok commands the entire army, so theoretically Sten could become an Arishok. After all, he was sent to find out what the Blight is at the behest of the Arishok, but since the Arishok is in Kirkwall while he's in his homeland, the information is something only he knows (though I imagine he'd tell Qunari scholars what he knows)

[Macropodmum]

Ah ok, with all their talk of have to be what you are told I figured they were stuck like that, thanks for the clarification

[TEWR]

I personally like to believe that because Sten's views have changed a little (something he acknowledges in DAO's ending), he might change Qunari society. Perhaps he'll be the Hugh of the Qunari.



edit: found an interesting Gaider quote...

The qunari were indeed something else before the Qun, and even called themselves something else.

What that was, however, is something we've not discussed yet.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 13 août 2011 - 06:17 .

[Anyroad2]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I personally like to believe that because Sten's views have changed a little (something he acknowledges in DAO's ending), he might change Qunari society. Perhaps he'll be the Hugh of the Qunari.



edit: found an interesting Gaider quote...

The qunari were indeed something else before the Qun, and even called themselves something else.

What that was, however, is something we've not discussed yet.

Gaider being vague as always. ><

Does he mean Kossith (the race that Sten, The Arishok, ect belong to), or does he mean the religion/discipline? I ask because most people refer to that race as Qunari only. I mean, I havent heard anyone in Stolen Throne, The Calling, Origins, Awakening, DA2, or Legacy mention Kossith at all (in fact, I dont know where the term originally came from).

[TEWR]

Anyroad2 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I personally like to believe that because Sten's views have changed a little (something he acknowledges in DAO's ending), he might change Qunari society. Perhaps he'll be the Hugh of the Qunari.



edit: found an interesting Gaider quote...

The qunari were indeed something else before the Qun, and even called themselves something else.

What that was, however, is something we've not discussed yet.

Gaider being vague as always. ><

Does he mean Kossith (the race that Sten, The Arishok, ect belong to), or does he mean the religion/discipline? I ask because most people refer to that race as Qunari only. I mean, I havent heard anyone in Stolen Throne, The Calling, Origins, Awakening, DA2, or Legacy mention Kossith at all (in fact, I dont know where the term originally came from).

This was from about a year or so ago, so it's possible he meant Kossith in regards to their name (though I'm willing to bet they still refer to themselves as such). But the question asked was about who the Qunari were prior to the Qun coming into play.

[Rifneno]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Stuff about Sten becoming the new Arishok

I just thought I'd add, I noticed this quote in the official guide: "Sten will not survive the darkspawn incursion against Lothering unless you free him from his prison before leaving town."  Since they've retconned epilogues, I'm sure they'd have no problem with a guide, but it definitely implies they didn't have a long term plan for him originally.

[Reznore57]

About the Kossith ,seems like they had a society not so different from the chantry or Imperium.
Meaning those in power have a good life , those who don't were left behind.I don't know what drove their society , money , magic , faith etc...They were probably some "decadence" going on since the Qun had many followers.And we don't see any Kossith but Qunari and Tal vashoth.

There is also the rumors of human coming from Par Vollen ..But Qunari never mentions it .And they seems to know nothing of the Blight when we met Sten.
And one thing i found strange when you meet a Saarebas , a Qunari says even templars doesn't fully understand the threat mages are.They are really scared of magic and act like it's a disease.

[Herr Uhl]

Reznore57 wrote...

About the Kossith ,seems like they had a society not so different from the chantry or Imperium.
Meaning those in power have a good life , those who don't were left behind.I don't know what drove their society , money , magic , faith etc...They were probably some "decadence" going on since the Qun had many followers.And we don't see any Kossith but Qunari and Tal vashoth.

There is also the rumors of human coming from Par Vollen ..But Qunari never mentions it .And they seems to know nothing of the Blight when we met Sten.
And one thing i found strange when you meet a Saarebas , a Qunari says even templars doesn't fully understand the threat mages are.They are really scared of magic and act like it's a disease.

The Kossith that came were Qunari, hence they are divided into Qunari and Vashoth (which is just, people who stopped being Qunari).

Why would they mention humans coming from Par Vollen? That was at least a few thousand years before the Qunari arrived, and humans only had minor settlements by the time they did arrive.