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[Mike3207]

"9:40 Dragon: Hawke's former companion Varric Tethras is interrogated by Cassandra Pentaghast, member of the Seekers. Both the Warden-Commander and the Champion have mysteriously disappeared by this time."

It makes it clear that the Warden Commander disappears. If you create a Orlesian warden, he'll be the one to disappear and the Hero of Ferelden is still going about his/her business.

[T3H Fish]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Maybe not that part of his rant, but the blowing up the Chantry. If he'd done that with Cullen or almost anyone else in charge, then it's likley most of them would not have jumped to Annulling the Circle. Since his goal was to provoke open warfare, if a a saner templar had simply had him publicly executed and not the rest of the Circle then Anders would have achieved little to nothing.

I would have to agree since Anders was an apostate and had no ties to to the Circle, I think any other Knight-Commander would have just had him executed on the spot. Anders's personality change bugged me a great deal in DA2. He didn't really strike me as an extremist in Awakening, he had a 'everyone for themselves' kind of attitude, then barely after Awakening, he's a zealot wanting all mages freed and to overthrow the Templars and coming on hard to Hawke. I don't think Justice would be completely responsible for such a personality switch, because Anders's new personality matches neither Justice or Awakening Anders.

Anyway, the two triggers to the whole Mage-Templar War were basically Meredith coming in to possession of the red lyrium idol and Anders killing Grand Cleric Elthina and the entire Kirkwall Chantry to remove any chance for 'compromise', cause Maker forbid something couldn't be worked out to keep the peace >_>

Mike Smith wrote...

"9:40 Dragon: Hawke's former companion Varric Tethras is interrogated by Cassandra Pentaghast, member of the Seekers. Both the Warden-Commander and the Champion have mysteriously disappeared by this time." 

It makes it clear that the Warden Commander disappears. If you create a Orlesian warden, he'll be the one to disappear and the Hero of Ferelden is still going about his/her business.

And I can see that making sense if your Warden died or chose to play as the Orlesian Warden-Commander. I suppose it also fits the various Epilogues from Awakening, all ending in the Hero/Orlesian Warden suddenly just leaving. But if that's true, why look for the Orelsian Warden who only dealed with a fairly minor Darkspawn threat (since Awakening was contained in the area of Amaranthine), rather than the Hero of Ferelden, who gathered an army, united both a nation and foreign allies, and put a stop to an entire Blight and slew the Arch Demon in record time?

If your Hero died during the Battle of Denerim, then finding the Orelsian Warden would make sense, but if they're still alive, that's the part that isn't quite adding up when Cassandra says they are looking for the Warden-Commander, it could be referring to either, since both characters hold the title.

Modifié par T3H Fish, 14 août 2011 - 07:01 .

[Mike3207]

T3H Fish wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Maybe not that part of his rant, but the blowing up the Chantry. If he'd done that with Cullen or almost anyone else in charge, then it's likley most of them would not have jumped to Annulling the Circle. Since his goal was to provoke open warfare, if a a saner templar had simply had him publicly executed and not the rest of the Circle then Anders would have achieved little to nothing.

I would have to agree since Anders was an apostate and had no ties to to the Circle, I think any other Knight-Commander would have just had him executed on the spot. Anders's personality change bugged me a great deal in DA2. He didn't really strike me as an extremist in Awakening, he had a 'everyone for themselves' kind of attitude, then barely after Awakening, he's a zealot wanting all mages freed and to overthrow the Templars and coming on hard to Hawke. I don't think Justice would be completely responsible for such a personality switch, because Anders's new personality matches neither Justice or Awakening Anders

Anders makes it clear that Justice changed after he entered him from Justice to Vengeance. I imagine such a change would have a major impact on Anders personality.

[T3H Fish]

Mike Smith wrote...

T3H Fish wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Maybe not that part of his rant, but the blowing up the Chantry. If he'd done that with Cullen or almost anyone else in charge, then it's likley most of them would not have jumped to Annulling the Circle. Since his goal was to provoke open warfare, if a a saner templar had simply had him publicly executed and not the rest of the Circle then Anders would have achieved little to nothing.

I would have to agree since Anders was an apostate and had no ties to to the Circle, I think any other Knight-Commander would have just had him executed on the spot. Anders's personality change bugged me a great deal in DA2. He didn't really strike me as an extremist in Awakening, he had a 'everyone for themselves' kind of attitude, then barely after Awakening, he's a zealot wanting all mages freed and to overthrow the Templars and coming on hard to Hawke. I don't think Justice would be completely responsible for such a personality switch, because Anders's new personality matches neither Justice or Awakening Anders

Anders makes it clear that Justice changed after he entered him from Justice to Vengeance. I imagine such a change would have a major impact on Anders personality.

I get that part, maybe it's just something I'm trying to look at too hard. I think it's just the inconsistencies with the Awakening Endings and Anders showing up in Kirkwall that are throwing me off.

[TEWR]

It's possible Cassandra wants to find both the Orlesian Warden and the Hero of Ferelden. Perhaps if you played Awakening as your Warden, the Orlesian Warden did something else that was noteworthy.

[miraclemight]

Mike Smith wrote...

T3H Fish wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Maybe not that part of his rant, but the blowing up the Chantry. If he'd done that with Cullen or almost anyone else in charge, then it's likley most of them would not have jumped to Annulling the Circle. Since his goal was to provoke open warfare, if a a saner templar had simply had him publicly executed and not the rest of the Circle then Anders would have achieved little to nothing.

I would have to agree since Anders was an apostate and had no ties to to the Circle, I think any other Knight-Commander would have just had him executed on the spot. Anders's personality change bugged me a great deal in DA2. He didn't really strike me as an extremist in Awakening, he had a 'everyone for themselves' kind of attitude, then barely after Awakening, he's a zealot wanting all mages freed and to overthrow the Templars and coming on hard to Hawke. I don't think Justice would be completely responsible for such a personality switch, because Anders's new personality matches neither Justice or Awakening Anders

Anders makes it clear that Justice changed after he entered him from Justice to Vengeance. I imagine such a change would have a major impact on Anders personality.

I think what  T3H wanted to say was that there was no need to bring back a mage named "Anders" and a spirit named "Justice" if none of them were going have their old personality trends. You could have easy switched them with a with a zealot unpossessed mage named BomBom and you wouldn't have felt any difference. That was just a plot excuse that even didn't need to be there.

If you ask me, I'd say the fact that Justice agreed to merge with someone like Anders was odd to begin with - a person whom he had problems with even during normal converations in Awakening. And lo and behold, of all the people in the Free Marches, he chose to possess the one mage who wanted nothing but "pretty girls and the right to shoot lightening at idiots" and the only explantion we get for that in DA II is Anders saying "I couldn't be that selfish". Riiight...


Edit: There. I got ninja'd.

Modifié par miraclemight, 14 août 2011 - 07:17 .

[T3H Fish]

An interesting idea. One of the Epilogues in Awakening suggests that the First Warden believed a new Blight was close to starting, so perhaps the Orlesian Warden achieved something in relation to that or some other discovery or feat that was greatly beneficial to the Wardens.

[T3H Fish]

miraclemight wrote...

Mike Smith wrote...

T3H Fish wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Maybe not that part of his rant, but the blowing up the Chantry. If he'd done that with Cullen or almost anyone else in charge, then it's likley most of them would not have jumped to Annulling the Circle. Since his goal was to provoke open warfare, if a a saner templar had simply had him publicly executed and not the rest of the Circle then Anders would have achieved little to nothing.

I would have to agree since Anders was an apostate and had no ties to to the Circle, I think any other Knight-Commander would have just had him executed on the spot. Anders's personality change bugged me a great deal in DA2. He didn't really strike me as an extremist in Awakening, he had a 'everyone for themselves' kind of attitude, then barely after Awakening, he's a zealot wanting all mages freed and to overthrow the Templars and coming on hard to Hawke. I don't think Justice would be completely responsible for such a personality switch, because Anders's new personality matches neither Justice or Awakening Anders

Anders makes it clear that Justice changed after he entered him from Justice to Vengeance. I imagine such a change would have a major impact on Anders personality.

I think what  T3H wanted to say was that there was no need to bring back a mage named "Anders" and a spirit named "Justice" if none of them were going have their old personality trends. You could have easy switched them with a with a zealot unpossessed mage named BomBom and you wouldn't have felt any difference. That was just a plot excuse that even didn't need to be there.

If you ask me, I'd say the fact that Justice agreed to merge with someone like Anders was odd to begin with - a person whom he had problems with even during normal converations in Awakening. And lo and behold, of all the people in the Free Marches, he chose to possess the one mage who wanted nothing but "pretty girls and the right to shoot lightening at idiots" and the only explantion we get for that in DA II is Anders saying "I couldn't be that selfish". Riiight...


Edit: There. I got ninja'd.

Ah, thank you. That  cleared it up in my own head. Yes, they could have just left Anders alone and put in some crazy radical apostate who had escaped the Kirkwal Circle. It claims in the wiki that Justice came to Anders with the idea of getting justice for the mages and Anders agreed, then his anger warped Justice into Vengeance. I don't really recall Anders being all that 'angry'. He escaped the Circle like 8 times when you meet him in Awakening and he doesn't really show any outward malice to the Templars aside from the usual attitude. Hell, even in most of the Awakening endings, he lives a relatively comfortable life with the Wardens, then goes off on his own.

[Rifneno]

T3H Fish wrote...

Varric wouldn't seem the type to forget stuff like that, especially when it almost gets him killed. The hilt of the sword itself still bears much of the idol's original appearance, so even after six years, seeing it enough times would jog someone's memory at the least, especially after Varric finds Bartrand.

Hell, I didn't even recognize it as part of the idol and I still thought to myself, "So, I'm going to have to kill her. Interesting." when I saw it the first time in Act I. It just looked completely sinister. Then again, I thought the same thing upon seeing Orsino's Staff of a Million Penises.

Herr Uhl wrote...

"There can be no compromise" was pretty clear to me.

Like many things in the game, it's a matter of interpretation. I think what he meant is that there can be no compromise because the Chantry will never allow one. He's sick of sitting on his hands waiting for one that'll never happen and doesn't want anyone else making the same mistake.

Mike Smith wrote...

"9:40 Dragon: Hawke's former companion Varric Tethras is interrogated by Cassandra Pentaghast, member of the Seekers. Both the Warden-Commander and the Champion have mysteriously disappeared by this time."

It makes it clear that the Warden Commander disappears. If you create a Orlesian warden, he'll be the one to disappear and the Hero of Ferelden is still going about his/her business.

It is only from the wiki though? The wiki, while a good source of information 95% of the time, is written by us players.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

It's possible Cassandra wants to find both the Orlesian Warden and the Hero of Ferelden. Perhaps if you played Awakening as your Warden, the Orlesian Warden did something else that was noteworthy.

I'd find the Orlesian WC existing if the Origins Wardens survived to be noteworthy.

[T3H Fish]

When I first played through DA2, when I saw the sword hilt on Meredith's back, I was like 'that looks familiar' but I didn't connected the dots until Varric finds Bartrand and he mentions that he sold the idol to a woman. That's when it clicked that Meredith now possessed the red lyrium idol and I was like 'oh... serious ****s about to go down'.

I would still like to know why the Orlesian Warden from Awakening would just up and leave Amaranthine, assuming that the First Warden assigned them to the position in the first place. Just something about that doesn't settle right.

It's all too secretive, makes my nose twitch, as Daveth would say.

[Neminea]

Lied is just the german (and dutch) word for song, just like "anders" means different in dutch. Don't read too much into it.

[GarrusV4karian]

I wonder why Cassandra jumps to the conclusion that Hawke is dead in the ending of DA2? I mean, if someone's gone and no one knows where he is, then why would anyon like Cassandra start saying that he would be dead? And Varric isn't sure either? This is very mysterious...

[whykikyouwhy]

Perhaps given how Hawke was a figure in many of the events leading to the mage/templar schism, and suddenly there is no word/rumor/sign of the Champion, it just seemed unlikely that Hawke would lay low vs be deceased. The expectation was probably that Hawke would still be actively working with one faction or the other.

It's likely that Varric knows where Hawke is, but chose to guard that information, however vague or specific it is.

[TEWR]

I wonder how many people would throw a tantrum if the Orlesian Warden was given a voice....

[Dave of Canada]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I wonder how many people would throw a tantrum if the Orlesian Warden was given a voice....

I'm pretty sure if we'd ever play an Orlesian, quite a few people would throw a fit. Only because how much people say the Orlesian accents are "fake".

[Aradace]

Dave of Canada wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I wonder how many people would throw a tantrum if the Orlesian Warden was given a voice....

I'm pretty sure if we'd ever play an Orlesian, quite a few people would throw a fit. Only because how much people say the Orlesian accents are "fake".

Im not going to say one way or the other if they actually are.  But I will say this; To me, they certainly sound that way.  As in they sound "forced" and unnatural.  And yes, I've known a few french people in my lifetime and none of them had an accent as thick as the Orlesians do.  A couple of them, you wouldnt know they were french unless they told you so.

In conclusion, I wouldnt throw a "tantrum" so much as I would just laugh, shake me head and say "Oh yea, definately passing on this" lol

Modifié par Aradace, 15 août 2011 - 07:46 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Anders change in personality/focus, in regards to mage rebellions/revolutions was pretty much down to Justice, at least for the most part. In Awakenings, Justice kept pestering Anders nonstop about freeing mages from their oppresion, and nagging him about his apathy towards the cause. To which Anders kept nonchalantly blowing him off.

When Anders in DA2 starts going into one of his diatribes about mage rights, and bothering the companions and expecting them to care about it, is almost like Justice himself speaking, because i remember his convos and banters in Awakening being similarly one-tracked, and a bit clueless in regards to context.

What was clear in Awakening was that Anders, as delightfully self interested and care free as he was, still harbored deep resentments towards the Chantry and templars, though he wasn't particularly motivated to act on them. It's this deep resentment that we know is what corrupted Justice and made him mean and intolerant. In turn, Justice pushed Anders into one track obsession mode.

The tragedy is that you had two pretty well intentioned individual characters, who combined, are slowly destroying the essence of one another, and to the point where by Act 3, it really became impossible to seperate the two.

[TEWR]

Dave of Canada wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I wonder how many people would throw a tantrum if the Orlesian Warden was given a voice....

I'm pretty sure if we'd ever play an Orlesian, quite a few people would throw a fit. Only because how much people say the Orlesian accents are "fake".

Some of the Orlesian accents are really well done. Leliana and Riordan actually sound French.

Others just try to be incredibly snooty and fake.

[The Baconer]

Dave of Canada wrote...
I'm pretty sure if we'd ever play an Orlesian, quite a few people would throw a fit. Only because how much people say the Orlesian accents are "fake".

Pfft, ridiculous. I'd throw a fit because they're Orlesian.

[T3H Fish]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Perhaps given how Hawke was a figure in many of the events leading to the mage/templar schism, and suddenly there is no word/rumor/sign of the Champion, it just seemed unlikely that Hawke would lay low vs be deceased. The expectation was probably that Hawke would still be actively working with one faction or the other.

It's likely that Varric knows where Hawke is, but chose to guard that information, however vague or specific it is.

I like that theory, though I don't think Varric knows 'exactly' where Hawke is, but probably has a pretty good idea where the Champion  is currently residing or doing. Though, if Hawke was actively assiting either the Mages or Templars during the war, you would think word would get around about the Champion's activities and Cassandra's job would be MUCH easier.

The Hero of Ferelden, Orelsian Warden-Commander, and the Champion all just fall off the map of Thedas, which is really, really strange. None of the companions know where they would be, save for probably Hawke's romance, where it's eluded to that they stay by Hawke's side, but then in those 3 years, they could have parted ways or lost contact with each other, just like the Hero and whoever their romance is, so who knows?

[Aradace]

T3H Fish wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Perhaps given how Hawke was a figure in many of the events leading to the mage/templar schism, and suddenly there is no word/rumor/sign of the Champion, it just seemed unlikely that Hawke would lay low vs be deceased. The expectation was probably that Hawke would still be actively working with one faction or the other.

It's likely that Varric knows where Hawke is, but chose to guard that information, however vague or specific it is.

I like that theory, though I don't think Varric knows 'exactly' where Hawke is, but probably has a pretty good idea where the Champion  is currently residing or doing. Though, if Hawke was actively assiting either the Mages or Templars during the war, you would think word would get around about the Champion's activities and Cassandra's job would be MUCH easier.

The Hero of Ferelden, Orelsian Warden-Commander, and the Champion all just fall off the map of Thedas, which is really, really strange. None of the companions know where they would be, save for probably Hawke's romance, where it's eluded to that they stay by Hawke's side, but then in those 3 years, they could have parted ways or lost contact with each other, just like the Hero and whoever their romance is, so who knows?

Maybe it all has something to do with the Eluvian Morrigan found? lol (j/k I know that's pretty farfetched)

[whykikyouwhy]

My feeling is that they'll return for the end battle - when the impending biggest of the big bads is fought (when everything will be as it was). I also think that Flemeth is tucking them away somewhere. They're all pieces on the chessboard to her.

[T3H Fish]

That's what I think, because Flemeth's involvement is more than just coincidental saving of random people destined to be heroes later on. I have a feeling she's been pulling strings, but if it's in regards to the war or maybe another Blight happening soon, couldn't begin to guess. Morrigan hinted at that Flemeth may be a great danger to Thedas, but there's so much going on, it's masking whatever the 'true threat' is currently brewing.

As for the Eluvian, I thought that, but that's if only the Hero followed Morrigan in (if in romance). Other than that, the Eluvian Morrigan activates becomes useless after she goes through it. Merril's Eluvian is a bit of a stretch too, especially if she destroys it in your game. Though that wouldn't leave out another Eluvian being found and activated, since Morrigan left something for the Warden at the end of Witch Hunt, though I don't think it's ever explained what the 'gift' is.

It's like missing a piece to a very complicated puzzle... except there are lots of pieces missing or just not fitting correctly.

[Rifneno]

The Baconer wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...
I'm pretty sure if we'd ever play an Orlesian, quite a few people would throw a fit. Only because how much people say the Orlesian accents are "fake".

Pfft, ridiculous. I'd throw a fit because they're Orlesian.

I'd throw a fit about a game in Orlais because it's impossible to level up when all your enemies run and hide after the first slap.

But seriously...  I'm not sure a game set of Orlais would even have all the accents.  Especially, especially if we actually play a native Orlesian.  We're seeing it through the eyes of a native, and a native wouldn't hear accents the same way we don't hear our own accents.

[Aradace]

Rifneno wrote...



I'd throw a fit about a game in Orlais because it's impossible to level up when all your enemies run and hide after the first slap.

.

That or they scream "I give up" before you even draw steel lol.