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[TEWR]

Rifneno wrote...

The Baconer wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...
I'm pretty sure if we'd ever play an Orlesian, quite a few people would throw a fit. Only because how much people say the Orlesian accents are "fake".

Pfft, ridiculous. I'd throw a fit because they're Orlesian.

I'd throw a fit about a game in Orlais because it's impossible to level up when all your enemies run and hide after the first slap.

 
Nah they’ll just taunt you

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 15 août 2011 - 09:44 .

[Erani]

Rifneno wrote...

But seriously...  I'm not sure a game set of Orlais would even have all the accents.  Especially, especially if we actually play a native Orlesian.  We're seeing it through the eyes of a native, and a native wouldn't hear accents the same way we don't hear our own accents.

Interesting point. 

[T3H Fish]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

The Baconer wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...
I'm pretty sure if we'd ever play an Orlesian, quite a few people would throw a fit. Only because how much people say the Orlesian accents are "fake".

Pfft, ridiculous. I'd throw a fit because they're Orlesian.

I'd throw a fit about a game in Orlais because it's impossible to level up when all your enemies run and hide after the first slap.

 
Nah they’ll just taunt you

I would laugh so hard if that was the case.

[whykikyouwhy]

Filament wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

My feeling is that they'll return for the end battle - when the impending biggest of the big bads is fought (when everything will be as it was). I also think that Flemeth is tucking them away somewhere. They're all pieces on the chessboard to her.

I'd rather think she takes a more hands-off approach. She's a chess player in the sense that she moves pieces around and can see many moves in advance, but her chess pieces move on their own and she simply nudges them in the right direction to get them going on a path she desires.

Chess player. Puppetmaster (or master of puppets?). Or maybe she is part and party to the loom and is helping weave the tapestry of the world (but only has a hazy idea of what the grand image will be). Whatever the role, I think the disappearances bear her thumbprint.

Which is partially why I don't think she's a magister. Her involvement with the (would-be) heroes is remote, yes, but seems to be of a far grander plan and scale than what the magisters were after (though, admittedly, we only know the tales).

[T3H Fish]

Going on a completely different topic for a sec, since I probably won't be able to afford the Legacy DLC, I went ahead and spoiled it for myself. Corypheus and The Architect share some physical appearances that are making me really suspicious.

Though The Architect claims he is a 'different' kind of Darkspawn, so maybe Bioware is laying down a bunch of red herrings to keep the fans distracted from what's REALLY going on.

[whykikyouwhy]

T3H Fish wrote...

Going on a completely different topic for a sec, since I probably won't be able to afford the Legacy DLC, I went ahead and spoiled it for myself. Corypheus and The Architect share some physical appearances that are making me really suspicious.

Though The Architect claims he is a 'different' kind of Darkspawn, so maybe Bioware is laying down a bunch of red herrings to keep the fans distracted from what's REALLY going on.

What spoiler level are you willing to indulge in?

***warning for below***


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***insert some muzak here***


Corypheus is one of the magisters that sought to enter the Golden City, although the Architect has not yet been confirmed as one. He bears a lot of the characteristics, yes - gaunt form, mutated flesh, etc and so forth. People have speculated that the Architect might be one of the next wave of darkspawn - an early form, still retaining intelligence, or perhaps an experimental creation.

[T3H Fish]

I think Flemeth's involvement is always going to be on the 'outer circle' of the story. All she seems to do is point the right people in the right direction and leaves the outcome up to fate. However, both her and Morrigan both warn that something 'big' is going to strike Thedas, but it's so ambiguous, don't know if it's referring to the Mage-Templar War or some other event that will happen in DA3. They know SOMETHING is going to happen that's suppose to, apparently, it's just not clear what that would be.

[devSin]

T3H Fish wrote...

Going on a completely different topic for a sec, since I probably won't be able to afford the Legacy DLC, I went ahead and spoiled it for myself. Corypheus and The Architect share some physical appearances that are making me really suspicious.

Though The Architect claims he is a 'different' kind of Darkspawn, so maybe Bioware is laying down a bunch of red herrings to keep the fans distracted from what's REALLY going on.

Honestly, I think they're changing entirely what the Architect was supposed to be. I don't think what David wrote in the book and put into Awakening was supposed to be one of the magisters who breached heaven, but for one reason or another, that's where they're going to take it (of course, the Architect in Awakening didn't look anything like David's description, so maybe the decision had already been made). (David's already said that he's not in control of the game world, so we'll probably never know if he had originally intended something different for the character.)

Or it could have been his intent all along, but that would mean the Architect truly forgot or was extremely malicious (despite his good manners). His mad plan was always evil, but he seemed to be portrayed as not seeing it that way (and who could blame him, wanting a better life for his people). But if he was just lying in The Calling and in Awakening, then he really is just plain evil.

Modifié par devSin, 16 août 2011 - 12:18 .

[T3H Fish]

Filament wrote...

I figured the Architect was one of the original Magisters and simply forgot about it... or lied.

That's what I was thinking once I made the comparison and read a little bit on Corypheus. The Architect has no explination for why he exists. He does show a great deal of cunning and talent for manipulation, like Corypheus does, but he's working in opposition to the Darkspawn... unless he's just lying about that to muster up his own Taint-infected army of intelligent Darkspawn.

[Herr Uhl]

T3H Fish wrote...

I think Flemeth's involvement is always going to be on the 'outer circle' of the story. All she seems to do is point the right people in the right direction and leaves the outcome up to fate. However, both her and Morrigan both warn that something 'big' is going to strike Thedas, but it's so ambiguous, don't know if it's referring to the Mage-Templar War or some other event that will happen in DA3. They know SOMETHING is going to happen that's suppose to, apparently, it's just not clear what that would be.

Well, mage-templar war, a Qunari invasion, Dalish uniting, a new archdemon rears it's ugly head and Tevinter starting to strike out.

That'd be a clustercopulation.

[T3H Fish]

Herr Uhl wrote...

T3H Fish wrote...

I think Flemeth's involvement is always going to be on the 'outer circle' of the story. All she seems to do is point the right people in the right direction and leaves the outcome up to fate. However, both her and Morrigan both warn that something 'big' is going to strike Thedas, but it's so ambiguous, don't know if it's referring to the Mage-Templar War or some other event that will happen in DA3. They know SOMETHING is going to happen that's suppose to, apparently, it's just not clear what that would be.

Well, mage-templar war, a Qunari invasion, Dalish uniting, a new archdemon rears it's ugly head and Tevinter starting to strike out.

That'd be a clustercopulation.

At that point, I think even the Hero of Ferelden and the Champion of Kirkwall would go 'screw this, I'm leaving Thedas all together'

That is a frightening scenario to think about though, everything bad that CAN happen happens all at once.

[whykikyouwhy]

Filament wrote...

I don't think she's really portrayed with the kind of omnipotence to have that much control over the world... it would be a bit out of left field, I think. That makes her seem more like the G-man from Half-life. It would be fine if the games were set up from the beginning knowing the player actually has no agency and is just a puppet... but beyond her initial interaction, it is not presented as such.

Just IMO.

I probably phrased that poorly. Let me try to amend...

If she were an old(er) god, maybe one of the elven pantheon, she would have some sway and influence. Perhaps only so much as being able to see a finite amount of time and space ahead of the present. In that manner, in moving heroes and figureheads into the right places and thus setting certain things in motion, she is weaving the future. The future she sees, yes, but still there is some involvement on her part.

As such, she acts partially as a puppetmaster, but that doesn't take away the agency of the player. Looking at DA2 and all of the controversy regarding Hawke and his/her influence and rise to power, you can make some parallels. Certain things are going to happen - Hawke is there to influence the people around him/her, to make some decisions that set into motion other decisions, or affect certain individuals, but the main events of this story arc will happen no matter what. It becomes about the path that is taken to get to that end result - and sometimes that path can start a chain reaction in other directions.

That's how I see Flemeth - she knows the end result, or has the general shape of it in her mind's eye. So she is directing traffic there, so to speak. The player maintains his/her agency while on that road - how much gas or brake to use, who to mow down or put in the car (you'll have to forgive the odd analogy, if you would be so kind, Ser Bear). You're going to get to that target destination, but the journey there is yours and yours alone. So with the player, with Hawke and the Warden, the journey is what allows the freedom for growth. Agency isn't removed - but there is some string pulling that happens outside of the player.

If that makes sense in the very least. You know I can muddle an explanation in a heartbeat.

[TEWR]

Honestly, I think the Architect will be a good guy. I think Corypheus will lead the Darkspawn in a pseudo-Blight against humanity, and the Architect along with his Disciples will assist the humans in some way.

I honestly believe that the Architect wants there to be some sort of peace. He must know that they can't live side by side with one another, but that doesn't mean they can't be at peace with one another.

[devSin]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Honestly, I think the Architect will be a good guy. I think Corypheus will lead the Darkspawn in a pseudo-Blight against humanity, and the Architect along with his Disciples will assist the humans in some way.

I honestly believe that the Architect wants there to be some sort of peace. He must know that they can't live side by side with one another, but that doesn't mean they can't be at peace with one another.

Doubtful. The part that wasn't revealed in Awakening (either because he's moved on from it and now has different goals or simply because he was being deceptive) is that he also has to infect all the surface races with the taint (most of whom will die).

The darkspawn, even awakened, are still infectious. The only way to have peace is if the darkspawn are no longer subject to the Old Gods and no longer a threat to the other races.

So his plan is basically genocide, on both sides (assuming most of the awakened darkspawn would likely have to be put down).

What I'm unsure of (never could tell) is whether he's supposed to have scrapped his original plan, or if the experiments we see in Awakening were simply a continuation of it.

Modifié par devSin, 16 août 2011 - 12:26 .

[TEWR]

devSin wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Honestly, I think the Architect will be a good guy. I think Corypheus will lead the Darkspawn in a pseudo-Blight against humanity, and the Architect along with his Disciples will assist the humans in some way.

I honestly believe that the Architect wants there to be some sort of peace. He must know that they can't live side by side with one another, but that doesn't mean they can't be at peace with one another.

Doubtful. The part that wasn't revealed in Awakening (either because he's moved on from it and now has different goals or simply because he was being deceptive) is that he also has to infect all the surface races with the taint (most of whom will die).

The darkspawn, even awakened, are still infectious. The only way to have peace is if the darkspawn are no longer subject to the Old Gods and no longer a threat to the other races.

So his plan is basically genocide, on both sides (assuming most of the awakened darkspawn would likely have to be put down).

What I'm unsure of (never could tell) is whether he's supposed to have scrapped his original plan, or if the experiments we see in Awakening were simply a continuation of it.

That was his plan. Whether it still is his plan is unknown, though I highly doubt it. Being at peace with humanity doesn't mean Darkspawn have to be next door neighbors with humans.

Though, remember, blood magic is able to cleanse things of the taint. So it's possible (though admittedly unlikely), that applying blood magic on Darkspawn might be able to remove the taint from their bodies.

I don't see his plan as genocide just yet. So far, they seem to be in an alliance with the Wardens, who were the only people to actually trust them. They retreated to the Deep Roads, and the Deep Roads are now eerily silent (since nothing has yet contradicted the epilogue, at this point it is canon).

I think his experiments were ways to improve on his original idea, but without the sacrifices of humans. His primary goal is to find a way to keep humanity and Darkspawn from killing each other. Now that he's found a better, less sacrifice-as-many-humans-as-it-takes route, I think he's put aside that whole Ghoulification idea.

[T3H Fish]

Filament wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...


You're going to get to that target destination, but the journey there is yours and yours alone. So with the player, with Hawke and the Warden, the journey is what allows the freedom for growth. Agency isn't removed - but there is some string pulling that happens outside of the player.

I don't mean they lose agency along the journey itself... I made the G-man analogy because he doesn't force Gordon Freeman (protagonist) to do anything along the journey, per se, but he's always there, always watching. Then at the end of each game he pops up out of an extradimensional portal to grab Freeman and tuck him away for future use. The player doesn't lose agency per se (though there are no choices in that game to begin with), but there's a feeling that, the fate of the protagonist is ultimately in this nigh omniscient, omnipresent being's hands, rather than his/her own.

I don't see Flemeth as having that kind of... power.

It's feasable she COULD have that kind of power, but she probably choses not to use it. Flemeth already demonstrated she can be in several places at once, so there's no telling if she's had a deeper hand in some of the decision making and then appears to the Hero or Champion afterwards, on later date to set them on a new path, weither in the form we're all familiar with or disguised as some random hobo peddling coins on the streets.

[devSin]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

That was his plan. Whether it still is his plan is unknown, though I highly doubt it. Being at peace with humanity doesn't mean Darkspawn have to be next door neighbors with humans.

Well. Just to say, I killed him, so it doesn't matter anyway. He can't do anything important, because he could be dead (for me, he certainly is).

See, imports really can sometimes have positive results! No, there is no archdemon child, and no, there is no Architect (nor Utha, you freaky little troll dwarf traitor).

Modifié par devSin, 16 août 2011 - 12:41 .

[whykikyouwhy]

Filament wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...


You're going to get to that target destination, but the journey there is yours and yours alone. So with the player, with Hawke and the Warden, the journey is what allows the freedom for growth. Agency isn't removed - but there is some string pulling that happens outside of the player.

I don't mean they lose agency along the journey itself... I made the G-man analogy because he doesn't force Gordon Freeman (protagonist) to do anything along the journey, per se, but he's always there, always watching. Then at the end of each game he pops up out of an extradimensional portal to grab Freeman and tuck him away for future use. The player doesn't lose agency per se (though there are no choices in that game to begin with), but there's a feeling that, the fate of the protagonist is ultimately in this nigh omniscient, omnipresent being's hands, rather than his/her own.

I don't see Flemeth as having that kind of... power.

Ok. That helps me see where you're coming from (I haven't played Half Life, so the G-man thing was lost on me).

At this juncture, I can't shake the notion that Flemeth is part of the disappearances. I don't know of any other way to explain them. Maybe when we have a 3rd protagonist, more will be made clear - the transitional phase of the story will be revealed (the adventure and fame to disappearance section). I suspect that when the time comes, we'll see the heroes gathered in some way, shape or form - and that is where a decision will need to be made. Sides will need to be chosen. A line will be drawn in the sand. I see Flemeth re-emerging at that point, if only to either pose the decision/quandary to the player, or to do a little more of her shoving-people-into-place.

Maybe Flemeth is just an agent for a greater entity. She's been hired, in a sense, to get people to where they need to be. I don't know...with so much not yet revealed, it's hard for me to not think that some grand scheme is being enacted and, as a player, I'm flotsam drifting along, waiting for the right current.

I really need to stop with the analogies - they're all over the place.

[Herr Uhl]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Though, remember, blood magic is able to cleanse things of the taint. So it's possible (though admittedly unlikely), that applying blood magic on Darkspawn might be able to remove the taint from their bodies.

The problem here being that they're powered by the taint. Taking that away would just kill them.

[Sepewrath]

Yeah Darkspawn are born of the taint, removing it would just be a long winded way of cutting their head off. I personally would like to do it the easy way and just cut their heads off lol.

[T3H Fish]

Also, I don't think there's an actual cure for the Taint, aside from Andraste's Ashes. The Architect was using Grey Warden blood, which is already infected, to counter-act some of the effects of the Taint, like the Calling of the Archdemons (or subsequently, creatures like Corypheus) and regained the ability to think and talk. Or, like The Mother, sends them completely berserk. Blood magic, at the most, can keep one from dying from the effects of the Taint, but I don't think it can be fully removed from a living creature, especially Darkspawn.