330 réponses à ce sujet

[T3H Fish]

Filament wrote...

Would taking the taint away kill them or would it just make them mortal again? Do they have a soul when they are awakened? Unawakened (Riordan says no, but who knows for sure)? Do magisters like Corypheus have a soul? Do souls have anything to do with it? Why does Warden's blood make darkspawn sentient and cut off from the Calling when Wardens start hearing the Calling themselves eventually?

Grey Warden blood is resistant to the Taint, that's why when somone survives the Joining, they cannot become sick from exposure to it and they gain the ability to hear their communications. If my assumptions are accurate, Darkspawn are created from Broodmothers, so they don't start out 'human' in the first place, but I'm sure they retain some sort of basica abilities like speech and intelligent thought, but the Calling of the Arch Demon is so powerful, it over-rides everything and, essentially, thinks for them. That's why The Mother in Awakening went berserk because she couldn't cope with not hearing the voice of the Arch Demon.

if you were to remove the Taint completely from a Darkspawn, it would be similiar to draining the blood from them. The Taint is what makes them Darkspawn in the first place, it connects them all and its what drives them. Grey Wardens eventually die because it is still a poison to the mortal body and being exposed to the Arch Demon's voice for years on end probably doesn't help with mental stability. Humans, dwarves, or elves exposed to the Taint either die or become Ghouls/Shrieks (as Tamlen did from the Dalish Origin) and lose their humanity completely.

Course this is all just theory pulled out of my head, so don't take my word for it.

[TEWR]

Filament wrote...

Would taking the taint away kill them or would it just make them mortal again? Do they have a soul when they are awakened? Unawakened (Riordan says no, but who knows for sure)? Do magisters like Corypheus have a soul? Do souls have anything to do with it? Why does Warden's blood make darkspawn sentient and cut off from the Calling when Wardens start hearing the Calling themselves eventually?

Since Disciples are completely sentient, I like to think that the Reversed Joining (what I'm going to call what the Darkspawn undergo when the Architect gives them Warden blood) gives them a soul as well as freeing them from the Calling of the Old Gods. They are taking in the resistance that the Grey Wardens have.

As for the taint, we know it sustains their body and makes them immortal from the passage of time, eliminating the need for basic functions like eating. I'm unsure if their blood is the taint incarnate or if the taint is in their blood. But we know blood magic can offset the effects of the Calling, as Avernus did, and that blood magic cleansed a tainted shard of an Eluvian, as Merrill did. So Blood Magic and the Taint are very much linked together.

But, so far nothing in game has shown using blood magic on the Darkspawn to try and remove the taint from them would kill them. The blood magic the Wardens use on the Darkspawn is most likely the "boil your blood and make you explode" type of blood magic.

The codex on Emissaries (not ones like the Architect, but like the mook ones) says that they are capable of some speech, though no one has ever really gotten to hold a conversation with them.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 16 août 2011 - 01:58 .

[T3H Fish]

I wonder what a conversation with an Emissary would be like.... Warden and a Hurlock sitting down to tea, talking shop or something completely random.

[TEWR]

T3H Fish wrote...

I wonder what a conversation with an Emissary would be like.... Warden and a Hurlock sitting down to tea, talking shop or something completely random.

Sigrun actually joked about that, saying

"What's a meeting with a Darkspawn like?"
*fancy British accent*
"Hello I'm a Darkspawn, would you like some tea?"


I imagine it would go like this:

Warden: So... have you heard about that Mage-Templar conflict?
Emissary: Indeed I did. I heard the First Enchanter decided to turn into an abomination for no apparent reason
Warden: Quite so. And the Knight Commander was possessed by a glowing red lyriumsaber
Emissary: I also hear that our moronic, inbred cousins caused this Champion to flee Ferelden.
Warden: Mmmm... quite so.
Emissary: The world's gone mad, hasn't it?
Warden: Indeed.
Emissary: I miss the good old times of the Blights.
Warden: There's still two more at most. Maybe you could staple two Archdemons together and call it a super Blight.
Emissary: By jove, that's a great idea! Oh dear, in all my excitement I dropped my monocle and top hat.
Warden: Oh dear that's not good. More tea?
Emissary: Yes, thank you.

[whykikyouwhy]

T3H Fish wrote...

I wonder what a conversation with an Emissary would be like.... Warden and a Hurlock sitting down to tea, talking shop or something completely random.

Tea and Twinkies. And they'd talk about their Taint.

[T3H Fish]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

T3H Fish wrote...

I wonder what a conversation with an Emissary would be like.... Warden and a Hurlock sitting down to tea, talking shop or something completely random.

Sigrun actually joked about that, saying

"What's a meeting with a Darkspawn like?"
*fancy British accent*
"Hello I'm a Darkspawn, would you like some tea?"


I imagine it would go like this:

Warden: So... have you heard about that Mage-Templar conflict?
Emissary: Indeed I did. I heard the First Enchanter decided to turn into an abomination for no apparent reason
Warden: Quite so. And the Knight Commander was possessed by a glowing red lyriumsaber
Emissary: I also hear that our moronic, inbred cousins caused this Champion to flee Ferelden.
Warden: Mmmm... quite so.
Emissary: The world's gone mad, hasn't it?
Warden: Indeed.
Emissary: I miss the good old times of the Blights.
Warden: There's still two more at most. Maybe you could staple two Archdemons together and call it a super Blight.
Emissary: By jove, that's a great idea! Oh dear, in all my excitement I dropped my monocle and top hat.
Warden: Oh dear that's not good. More tea?
Emissary: Yes, thank you.

Lol at the stapling Arch Demons together to make Super Blights.

[devSin]

T3H Fish wrote...

I wonder what a conversation with an Emissary would be like.... Warden and a Hurlock sitting down to tea, talking shop or something completely random.

Considering that they don't have jaws anymore, I'm betting it'd be something like, "Egaak! Yhhhaaaak! Haaahchchahhchahhk! Eeeaaaahhhyaa!"

[T3H Fish]

devSin wrote...

T3H Fish wrote...

I wonder what a conversation with an Emissary would be like.... Warden and a Hurlock sitting down to tea, talking shop or something completely random.

Considering that they don't have jaws anymore, I'm betting it'd be something like, "Egaak! Yhhhaaaak! Haaahchchahhchahhk! Eeeaaaahhhyaa!"

I think most still have their jaws intact, but trying to have a conversation and tea with a jawless Darkspawn would be amusing all in itself, though he may spew Tainted phlegm and Maker knows what else across the table, in the tea, and probably on yourself xD

[T3H Fish]

Speaking of Blights, when do you think the Sixth Blight will start within the DA time-line? Bioware still has 2 Arch Demons to raise and it'd be a shame if nothing was done with them. In the intro to Origins, Duncan's narration states it's been 400 years since the rise of the First Blight (unless I'm wrong and he was referring to the Fourth Blight)... and of course one of the Awakening endings hints at the idea that a Blight is starting in the Anderfels, just not exactly sure what to expect with DA3 with so much going on.

[LadyJaneGrey]

T3H Fish wrote...

... and of course one of the Awakening endings hints at the idea that a Blight is starting in the Anderfels...

Really?    Do you remember the specifics, because I would really love to have a reason to visit the Anderfels!

[T3H Fish]

If the Warden is from Orlais, the Warden can serve as Warden Commander at Vigil's Keep for a time before finally being called by the Order to the Grey Warden headquarters at Weisshaupt. Rumor has it that there is a new Blight there. The Warden never returns to Vigil's Keep again.

Of course, it only implies to the Orlesian Warden Commander, though I don't know if this ending also exists for an imported Hero of Ferelden.

[LadyJaneGrey]

T3H Fish wrote...

If the Warden is from Orlais, the Warden can serve as Warden Commander at Vigil's Keep for a time before finally being called by the Order to the Grey Warden headquarters at Weisshaupt. Rumor has it that there is a new Blight there. The Warden never returns to Vigil's Keep again.

Of course, it only implies to the Orlesian Warden Commander, though I don't know if this ending also exists for an imported Hero of Ferelden.

Interesting.  Thank you for the tidbit. 

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

@ T3J Fish

Darkspawn are created two ways:

1. Broodmothers
2. Grey Wardens turn into darkspawn when they go on their calling in the deep roads.

In the book "The Calling" Bergen who was a high ranking Warden (also knew the location of the remaining arch demons), and his sister who is on the hunt of her brother both turn into darkspawn in the book.   Bergen was a Commander of Grey Wardens of Orlais, or a First Warden which I can't remember right now.

Most wardens know they are going to their calling in the deep roads and the majority don't know they will turn into darkspawn. Which is what is happening to Larius in the new dlc. In Legacy, the other darkspawn run right by him and don't attack him. The same happened in the book with Bergen.   The entire Grey Warden order doesn't know they will turn into darkspawn.

The Architect is the one who told Bergen what was happening to him and that he was turning into a darkspawn. I think the Architect is a magister who has awaken and is one of the original that was tainted in the Golden City. One of the first to be tainted.

With Larius I got the impression he was cured of his calling when Corypheus is killed if you side with him.

I also think the chantry has figured out that the wardens turn into darkspawn. I think this was Wesley's mission and his job was to observe the battle of Ostagar. I also think the reason that Aveline calls darkspawn flames is due to wardens not yet being fully turned.

These are a few of my speculations.

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 16 août 2011 - 08:51 .

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

T3H Fish wrote...

If the Warden is from Orlais, the Warden can serve as Warden Commander at Vigil's Keep for a time before finally being called by the Order to the Grey Warden headquarters at Weisshaupt. Rumor has it that there is a new Blight there. The Warden never returns to Vigil's Keep again.

Of course, it only implies to the Orlesian Warden Commander, though I don't know if this ending also exists for an imported Hero of Ferelden.

No, you never return to the Vigil once gone, even as the Hero of Ferelden. 

Depending on your role at the end of Awakening:

 As Queen and married to King Alistair you do returrn to Denerim for a time.  I think as Chancellor you also return.  I'm going to assume you return if Prince Consort to Anora.  You don't ever return to the Vigil once gone even if you return to Denerim.  You can take your character into GOA and WH and you still don't return to the Vigil. 

I think it also depends on your other lovers in the game as well.  As mistress to Alistair you both might be seen in Denerim and possibly other areas of Ferelden.  In love with Zevran and Leliana you are running around with them for a time before starting your job as commander and after your command at the Vigil.  If with Zevran and Leliana once leaving the Vigil you can also be heard to be still in their company for a time.  So it seems that going to GOA and WH seperates all lovers. 

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 16 août 2011 - 08:55 .

[whykikyouwhy]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

@ T3J Fish

Darkspawn are created two ways:

1. Broodmothers
2. Grey Wardens turn into darkspawn when they go on their calling in the deep roads.

In the book "The Calling" Bergen who was a high ranking Warden (also knew the location of the remaining arch demons), and his sister who is on the hunt of her brother both turn into darkspawn in the book.   Bergen was a Commander of Grey Wardens of Orlais, or a First Warden which I can't remember right now.

Most wardens know they are going to their calling in the deep roads and the majority don't know they will turn into darkspawn. Which is what is happening to Larius in the new dlc. In Legacy, the other darkspawn run right by him and don't attack him. The same happened in the book with Bergen.   The entire Grey Warden order doesn't know they will turn into darkspawn.

The Architect is the one who told Bergen what was happening to him and that he was turning into a darkspawn. I think the Architect is a magister who has awaken and is one of the original that was tainted in the Golden City. One of the first to be tainted.

With Larius I got the impression he was cured of his calling when Corypheus is killed if you side with him.

I also think the chantry has figured out that the wardens turn into darkspawn. I think this was Wesley's mission and his job was to observe the battle of Ostagar. I also think the reason that Aveline calls darkspawn flames is due to wardens not yet being fully turned.

These are a few of my speculations.

If the introduction of  Corypheus is an indication that we will run across the other magisters-turned-tainted (and provided that the others are "alive" and imprisoned or dormant), I wonder if one of them will be the first Broodmother. I don't think we've confirmed that the magisters who invaded Rotten Twinkie City were all male. What if one was a woman?

Or did the tainted magisters experiment and produce/manufacture the first broodmother? Just pondering this...

I'm of the mindset that Corypheus, upon defeat, left his gaunt shell and possessed Larius or Janeka. I can't shake that impression just yet.

[TEWR]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

@ T3J Fish

Darkspawn are created two ways:

1. Broodmothers
2. Grey Wardens turn into darkspawn when they go on their calling in the deep roads.

In the book "The Calling" Bergen who was a high ranking Warden (also knew the location of the remaining arch demons), and his sister who is on the hunt of her brother both turn into darkspawn in the book.   Bergen was a Commander of Grey Wardens of Orlais, or a First Warden which I can't remember right now.

Most wardens know they are going to their calling in the deep roads and the majority don't know they will turn into darkspawn. Which is what is happening to Larius in the new dlc. In Legacy, the other darkspawn run right by him and don't attack him. The same happened in the book with Bergen.   The entire Grey Warden order doesn't know they will turn into darkspawn.

The Architect is the one who told Bergen what was happening to him and that he was turning into a darkspawn. I think the Architect is a magister who has awaken and is one of the original that was tainted in the Golden City. One of the first to be tainted.

With Larius I got the impression he was cured of his calling when Corypheus is killed if you side with him.

I also think the chantry has figured out that the wardens turn into darkspawn. I think this was Wesley's mission and his job was to observe the battle of Ostagar. I also think the reason that Aveline calls darkspawn flames is due to wardens not yet being fully turned.

These are a few of my speculations.

IIRC those two Wardens were given something that drastically accelerated the taint in their bodies. So... it's not quite the same thing is it? Wardens don't naturally become Darkspawn. They become ghouls.

Another thing, I seem to remember it being said somewhere that Wardens who submit to the taint entirely become immune to the Darkspawn. They're not perceived as enemies by them. It's their last advantage. Not sure where I heard, or read, that piece of information.

And I wouldn't read too much into Aveline saying "Flames". It's an old type of swear, nothing more. Much like how Varric says "Bloody flames, what were those things?!" when you fight the Profane.

[T3H Fish]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

@ T3J Fish

Darkspawn are created two ways:

1. Broodmothers
2. Grey Wardens turn into darkspawn when they go on their calling in the deep roads.

In the book "The Calling" Bergen who was a high ranking Warden (also knew the location of the remaining arch demons), and his sister who is on the hunt of her brother both turn into darkspawn in the book.   Bergen was a Commander of Grey Wardens of Orlais, or a First Warden which I can't remember right now.

Most wardens know they are going to their calling in the deep roads and the majority don't know they will turn into darkspawn. Which is what is happening to Larius in the new dlc. In Legacy, the other darkspawn run right by him and don't attack him. The same happened in the book with Bergen.   The entire Grey Warden order doesn't know they will turn into darkspawn.

The Architect is the one who told Bergen what was happening to him and that he was turning into a darkspawn. I think the Architect is a magister who has awaken and is one of the original that was tainted in the Golden City. One of the first to be tainted.

With Larius I got the impression he was cured of his calling when Corypheus is killed if you side with him.

I also think the chantry has figured out that the wardens turn into darkspawn. I think this was Wesley's mission and his job was to observe the battle of Ostagar. I also think the reason that Aveline calls darkspawn flames is due to wardens not yet being fully turned.

These are a few of my speculations.

Darkspawn only come from Broodmothers. Those infected by the Taint either die or they become Ghouls, which serve as slave labor to the Darkspawn because they do not have the intelligence to forge and repair their own weapons and armors, from what I've read, but I have not read the book. It sounds like the two bits of information contradict each other a little.

And Wesley's appearance is easily explained by the fact that there  was a contigent of Templars at Ostagar to keep an eye on the Circle Mages gathered there.

[TEWR]

you're thinking Darmallon is the Golden City, aren't you Mr. Fancy Cybernetic Bear?

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 17 août 2011 - 09:42 .

[TEWR]

There were actually a few things in Bodahn's conversation that piqued my interest, but I've now forgotten what they were.

[whykikyouwhy]

So there are rotten Twinkies underground? Or you think the dwarves had their own version of El Dorado? Maybe there are 7 Cities of Cibola...er...something dwarven.

(If there winds up being 7 primeval thaigs, I'm going to squee.)

[T3H Fish]

Filament wrote...

Wardens turn into darkspawn always? Is that what everyone else got out of the Calling? If so I wonder if that's how we're going to find The Warden eventually-- perhaps locked up in a cage by Morrigan.

That sounds REALLY kinky when you put 'Morrigan' and 'cage' in the same sentence.

Perverted thoughts aside, I was really interested in Bodhan's story, it seemed like he wasn't quite telling Warden/Hawke everything. Sandal is who intriguied me the most. I know they say that dwarves can't be mages because of their natural resistance to lyrium but the fact that Sandal has turned up 3 times with just sheer carnage around him and the frozen Ogre.... I must know his secrets of godliness in combat.

[TEWR]

He's the progeny of an Aeducan and either an elf or human. That's what's said at a certain point in Legacy.

Just type in Sandal Legacy info and it'll be the first (and only) thread you see.

My guess is that he's King Endrin's long lost bastard. Damn.... Xanthos Aeducan has another brother!