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[whykikyouwhy]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

He's the progeny of an Aeducan and either an elf or human. That's what's said at a certain point in Legacy.

Just type in Sandal Legacy info and it'll be the first (and only) thread you see.

My guess is that he's King Endrin's long lost bastard. Damn.... Xanthos Aeducan has another brother!

I thought there was some speculation that Sandal was a salamader...

[T3H Fish]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

He's the progeny of an Aeducan and either an elf or human. That's what's said at a certain point in Legacy.

Just type in Sandal Legacy info and it'll be the first (and only) thread you see.

My guess is that he's King Endrin's long lost bastard. Damn.... Xanthos Aeducan has another brother!

I thought there was some speculation that Sandal was a salamader...

Lol wut?

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

@ T3J Fish

Darkspawn are created two ways:

1. Broodmothers
2. Grey Wardens turn into darkspawn when they go on their calling in the deep roads.

In the book "The Calling" Bergen who was a high ranking Warden (also knew the location of the remaining arch demons), and his sister who is on the hunt of her brother both turn into darkspawn in the book.   Bergen was a Commander of Grey Wardens of Orlais, or a First Warden which I can't remember right now.

Most wardens know they are going to their calling in the deep roads and the majority don't know they will turn into darkspawn. Which is what is happening to Larius in the new dlc. In Legacy, the other darkspawn run right by him and don't attack him. The same happened in the book with Bergen.   The entire Grey Warden order doesn't know they will turn into darkspawn.

The Architect is the one who told Bergen what was happening to him and that he was turning into a darkspawn. I think the Architect is a magister who has awaken and is one of the original that was tainted in the Golden City. One of the first to be tainted.

With Larius I got the impression he was cured of his calling when Corypheus is killed if you side with him.

I also think the chantry has figured out that the wardens turn into darkspawn. I think this was Wesley's mission and his job was to observe the battle of Ostagar. I also think the reason that Aveline calls darkspawn flames is due to wardens not yet being fully turned.

These are a few of my speculations.

IIRC those two Wardens were given something that drastically accelerated the taint in their bodies. So... it's not quite the same thing is it? Wardens don't naturally become Darkspawn. They become ghouls.

Another thing, I seem to remember it being said somewhere that Wardens who submit to the taint entirely become immune to the Darkspawn. They're not perceived as enemies by them. It's their last advantage. Not sure where I heard, or read, that piece of information.

And I wouldn't read too much into Aveline saying "Flames". It's an old type of swear, nothing more. Much like how Varric says "Bloody flames, what were those things?!" when you fight the Profane.

Nope, sorry my friend but you are wrong on this one.  This is from pages 130-131 of my paperback novel "The Calling."  Written by lead writer David Gaider. 

"Didn't you say it compelled you?" he asked. 

The Architect nodded sharply.  "That it does."  Most of my kind are helpless before the call.  They search because they must." 

"Most of your kind,"  Bergan repeated.  "But not you?"

"Nor, I suspect, you." 

"I am not a darkspawn." 

The creature stepped forward again, its interest renewed.  "The same taint runs in your blood as in ours, Grey Warden, yet in you its effects are diminished.  The question that comes to my mind is whether you have always heard the call of the Old Gods, or has that only happened since the corruption's advancement?"

"Advancement?"  Bregan blinked in confusion.

The emissary gestured languidly toward him, and Bregan abruptly realized that it was pointing at his arms under the blanket.  His throat became parch-dry as he brought them out and examined them more closely in the glowstone's yellow light.  They were half covered in dark blotches.  At first, he wondered if that was some kind of injury, or perhaps a bloodstain.  But then he noticed the texture of the skin within those discolored areas: rough and withered, just as darkspwan flesh was.

"We regenerate quickly," the Architect explained in a neutral voice.  "It is why we have never developed healing arts as your people have, I suppose.  It seems that while the effects of the taint are slowed within you, they have advanced to the point where you have experienced this one benefit, at least."

"Benefit,"  Bregan exclaimed in horror.  He dropped his arm out of the light, feeling his flesh crawl and bile rise up in this throat.  He fought against the sudden urge to start ripping his own skin from his body.

The Architect reached out with a hand to comfort him, but he pulled away from it reflexively.  He slammed up against the wall behind him, his breath coming in short and panicked starts.  He wondered what the rest of his body under the blanket looked like.  The itchiness he felt in his skin under those poultices, the thickness in his blood-was he covered in those blotches now?  Was he slowly transforming into some kind of monster?

Is that what happened to Grey Wardens when they lived too long?  When their resistance to the taint finally gave out once and for all?  Had the very first Grey Wardens long ago discovered this horrible truth and devised the Calling so that future generations could avoid seeing it for themselves?

"I am sorry,"  the Architect said, and for once Bregan believed it.  It withdrew its offered hand and simply stared at him uncomfortably as he sobbed.  The tears came explosively, in gasps, and they shook his whole body.  He burned with shame to be crying in front of the enemy, but he just couldn't help himself.  The grief that welled up inside of him was overwhelming, compounded by the grogginess he felt and the maddening song that continued to tickle at the corners of his mind.

He had been called here by the Old Gods, too, he realized.  It was their song that had lured him into the Dark Roads, that had told him his time was up.  He was just the same as any of these darkspawn. 


Well for me this indicts that Grey Wardens do turn into darkspawn.  I haven't gotten to the part in the book again when Bregan accepts the Architect's deal.   In chapter two it is discribed how Bregan is sick while traveling the deep roads.  He is sweating, dizzy, and vomiting on occassion.  So it appears his transformation was starting when he stepped into the deep roads. 

I guess one could say the poultices the Architect applied to heal Bergan's injuries from fighting darkspawn could have involved his potion to turn humanity into ghouls, so I can see where people might think this.  Bergan has been fighting darkspawn on his calling before he is surrounded and he wakes up in a cell where the Architect has tended to his wounds. 

Genevieve and her party have been given the tainted brooches and I'm at the part in the book where they have entered the deep roads and she commands Duncan to kill King Maric incase their mission fails and they don't find Bregan.  She has also stated for Duncan to get Maric back to the surface if they are overwhelmed by darkspawn before hand. 

[Rifneno]

T3H Fish wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

He's the progeny of an Aeducan and either an elf or human. That's what's said at a certain point in Legacy.

Just type in Sandal Legacy info and it'll be the first (and only) thread you see.

My guess is that he's King Endrin's long lost bastard. Damn.... Xanthos Aeducan has another brother!

I thought there was some speculation that Sandal was a salamader...

Lol wut?

I highly recommend against giving Sandal the salamanders. I was bored one day so I ordered him the king of all salamanders. Behold, the Chinese Giant Salamander.



Unfortunately, my Hawke went into an obligatory three year coma shortly afterwards. When he woke up however, all was lost. Amid the dark, frozen wasteland he looked up to see the gray ashen sky of a world doomed to a thousand years of nuclear winter.

In summary, Bodahn was right. Don't give him salamanders.

[whykikyouwhy]

That salamander is suspiciously the color of cheese.

[T3H Fish]

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

@ T3J Fish

Darkspawn are created two ways:

1. Broodmothers
2. Grey Wardens turn into darkspawn when they go on their calling in the deep roads.

In the book "The Calling" Bergen who was a high ranking Warden (also knew the location of the remaining arch demons), and his sister who is on the hunt of her brother both turn into darkspawn in the book.   Bergen was a Commander of Grey Wardens of Orlais, or a First Warden which I can't remember right now.

Most wardens know they are going to their calling in the deep roads and the majority don't know they will turn into darkspawn. Which is what is happening to Larius in the new dlc. In Legacy, the other darkspawn run right by him and don't attack him. The same happened in the book with Bergen.   The entire Grey Warden order doesn't know they will turn into darkspawn.

The Architect is the one who told Bergen what was happening to him and that he was turning into a darkspawn. I think the Architect is a magister who has awaken and is one of the original that was tainted in the Golden City. One of the first to be tainted.

With Larius I got the impression he was cured of his calling when Corypheus is killed if you side with him.

I also think the chantry has figured out that the wardens turn into darkspawn. I think this was Wesley's mission and his job was to observe the battle of Ostagar. I also think the reason that Aveline calls darkspawn flames is due to wardens not yet being fully turned.

These are a few of my speculations.

IIRC those two Wardens were given something that drastically accelerated the taint in their bodies. So... it's not quite the same thing is it? Wardens don't naturally become Darkspawn. They become ghouls.

Another thing, I seem to remember it being said somewhere that Wardens who submit to the taint entirely become immune to the Darkspawn. They're not perceived as enemies by them. It's their last advantage. Not sure where I heard, or read, that piece of information.

And I wouldn't read too much into Aveline saying "Flames". It's an old type of swear, nothing more. Much like how Varric says "Bloody flames, what were those things?!" when you fight the Profane.

Nope, sorry my friend but you are wrong on this one.  This is from pages 130-131 of my paperback novel "The Calling."  Written by lead writer David Gaider. 

"Didn't you say it compelled you?" he asked. 

The Architect nodded sharply.  "That it does."  Most of my kind are helpless before the call.  They search because they must." 

"Most of your kind,"  Bergan repeated.  "But not you?"

"Nor, I suspect, you." 

"I am not a darkspawn." 

The creature stepped forward again, its interest renewed.  "The same taint runs in your blood as in ours, Grey Warden, yet in you its effects are diminished.  The question that comes to my mind is whether you have always heard the call of the Old Gods, or has that only happened since the corruption's advancement?"

"Advancement?"  Bregan blinked in confusion.

The emissary gestured languidly toward him, and Bregan abruptly realized that it was pointing at his arms under the blanket.  His throat became parch-dry as he brought them out and examined them more closely in the glowstone's yellow light.  They were half covered in dark blotches.  At first, he wondered if that was some kind of injury, or perhaps a bloodstain.  But then he noticed the texture of the skin within those discolored areas: rough and withered, just as darkspwan flesh was.

"We regenerate quickly," the Architect explained in a neutral voice.  "It is why we have never developed healing arts as your people have, I suppose.  It seems that while the effects of the taint are slowed within you, they have advanced to the point where you have experienced this one benefit, at least."

"Benefit,"  Bregan exclaimed in horror.  He dropped his arm out of the light, feeling his flesh crawl and bile rise up in this throat.  He fought against the sudden urge to start ripping his own skin from his body.

The Architect reached out with a hand to comfort him, but he pulled away from it reflexively.  He slammed up against the wall behind him, his breath coming in short and panicked starts.  He wondered what the rest of his body under the blanket looked like.  The itchiness he felt in his skin under those poultices, the thickness in his blood-was he covered in those blotches now?  Was he slowly transforming into some kind of monster?

Is that what happened to Grey Wardens when they lived too long?  When their resistance to the taint finally gave out once and for all?  Had the very first Grey Wardens long ago discovered this horrible truth and devised the Calling so that future generations could avoid seeing it for themselves?

"I am sorry,"  the Architect said, and for once Bregan believed it.  It withdrew its offered hand and simply stared at him uncomfortably as he sobbed.  The tears came explosively, in gasps, and they shook his whole body.  He burned with shame to be crying in front of the enemy, but he just couldn't help himself.  The grief that welled up inside of him was overwhelming, compounded by the grogginess he felt and the maddening song that continued to tickle at the corners of his mind.

He had been called here by the Old Gods, too, he realized.  It was their song that had lured him into the Dark Roads, that had told him his time was up.  He was just the same as any of these darkspawn. 


Well for me this indicts that Grey Wardens do turn into darkspawn.  I haven't gotten to the part in the book again when Bregan accepts the Architect's deal.   In chapter two it is discribed how Bregan is sick while traveling the deep roads.  He is sweating, dizzy, and vomiting on occassion.  So it appears his transformation was starting when he stepped into the deep roads. 

I guess one could say the poultices the Architect applied to heal Bergan's injuries from fighting darkspawn could have involved his potion to turn humanity into ghouls, so I can see where people might think this.  Bergan has been fighting darkspawn on his calling before he is surrounded and he wakes up in a cell where the Architect has tended to his wounds. 

Genevieve and her party have been given the tainted brooches and I'm at the part in the book where they have entered the deep roads and she commands Duncan to kill King Maric incase their mission fails and they don't find Bregan.  She has also stated for Duncan to get Maric back to the surface if they are overwhelmed by darkspawn before hand. 

I don't see this as a confirmation that Grey Wardens DO turn into Darkspawn, just leaves the possiblity that they might, but either way, there doesn't seem to be any sort of confirmation about what exactly happens to a Grey Warden if they succumb completely to the Taint without dying.

I'm more inclined to find them turning into Ghouls more plausible because characters like Utha and Lairus, who are Grey Wardens, are labeled as Ghouls, as well as Tamlen, Hespith, and Ruck, who all bear similiar physical reactions to the Taint's affect on them and also behave the in similiar fashions, with the crazy talk and all in some of them.

And that is one friggin big salamander. I'd hate to see what kind of 'boom' Sandal can make out of that.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Tamlen is close to being a full shriek when he helps other shrieks attack the gray warden camp. If playing as a Dalish elf you get a chance to talk with Tamlen and I think to fully kill him at this point. To me a ghoul is someone like Ruck. Hespith says because of her own will she has not fully changed yet, because she wished to see what would happen with her friend. Maybe people like Hespith and Ruck it's different because they still have their humanity and Hespith had been in the deep roads with Branka for two years before the wardens find her. We really don't know how long it took for her friend to turn into a broodmother.

Bergan was already starting to change before the Architect even found him. He was having dry heaves and being deathly sick and his skin was itching and on fire. The Architect in later chapters explains about another Grey Warden whom the he meet in the deep roads before Bergan. The Architect explains the Grey Warden ended his own life because he couldn't withstand his transformation into a darkspawn. The Architect tried to help him and the Grey Warden told the Architect where the Old Gods prison were or this is the impression that I got from the book before he killed himself. Bergan is surprised that the Architect already knew where the Old Gods are buried. The Architect explains about the other Grey Warden. The Architect with only his touch changes Utha into darkspawn even though she isn't fully changed in her body. With Bergan he only speeds up the process that Bergan has only started though on his own. I think with Grey Wardens the transformation will take longer because of their immunity to the taint. I think with people who aren't Grey Wardens the process might be faster.

In Larius' case or with the case of each individual warden their transformation could take years due to how their bodies deal with the taint. Larius was said to have been in that prison for years and even Janeka calls him a darkspawn even though his transformation isn't complete. Maybe Corphyeus was able to hold back his full transformation?

As for me I do see Grey Wardens turning into darkspawn on their calling and it might take years. As for Wesley he seemed to start changing to quickly. I'm wondering if him being a Templar and his use of lyrium had something to do with this.

Humans become Hurlocks
Dwarfs become Genlocks
Elves become Shrieks
Qunari become Orges
Human and Elf Mages became the darkspawn mages

It does seem that each of these groups pull females into the deep roads turning them into broodmothers to birth even more darkspawn. These females were feed the flesh of their friends to make the change complete. Something that I find odd is the fact the book says Bergan is hungry yet he doesn't wish to eat and the thought makes him dry heave even more. Yet, we've seen Orges (Tower of Ishal) and the Genlock Alpha in the Legacy feed off of various living flesh. Morrigan also states in the hut that Darkspawn feed off the dead at Ostagar. So maybe this helps progess the transformation which Bergan is undergoing. I'm guessing that the Architect feed him the blood of or the flesh of a human to progress his tranformation even further or this is what the poultices were made of that he wrapped Bergan's wounds with. The Architect told Bergan he would speed up the process for him.

This isn't what Bergan agreed too. He only agreed to listen to the Architect's plan. So I'm unsure if the Architect was using blood magic on him. He also cures Bergan's wounds with Blood Magic. Bergan turns and returns to his cell and when he awakens he is transformed even more into a darkspawn. He also can't stand any light in his eyes from the Architect's glow light.

Also when playing the human noble Duncan does take your hound while you explore the camp at Ostagar and go into the wilds, and think of Alistair's strange story to the dog about eating the flesh of the fallen. I always found this strange this exchange between the dog and Alistair. I believe that Duncan tainted your warhound and Alistair knew it.

[Selej]

Unless something changed, I was under the impression the only way we got an Orlesian Warden Commander is if the original warden died. If the warden survived, he'd be the one in Awakenings, not the Orlesian. So I don't know why people are debating saying they're looking for both people when it would be one or the other. Though canon wise, it'd make more sense for the original GW to survived and did the DR.

[T3H Fish]

Modifié par T3H Fish, 19 août 2011 - 03:11 .

[T3H Fish]

Selej wrote...

Unless something changed, I was under the impression the only way we got an Orlesian Warden Commander is if the original warden died. If the warden survived, he'd be the one in Awakenings, not the Orlesian. So I don't know why people are debating saying they're looking for both people when it would be one or the other. Though canon wise, it'd make more sense for the original GW to survived and did the DR.

The reason we're trying to figure it out is because at the end of DA2, Leliana references the Warden Commander, which can mean either the Hero of Ferelden or the Orelsian Warden from Awakening. The Hero isn't referenced specifically in the ending, but all the Origin cameo apperances, if you imported a save, reference the Hero of Ferelden directly, no mention of the Orelsian Warden-Commander at all. Something isn't adding up here.

I'm under the impression there is some sort of 'canon' ending because in some situtaions, certain decisions don't added up when placed with others. It's like trying to do math with a bunch of variables and no clue in what order they go in to get the answer you're given. Some work, others don't quite match up.


On the topic of the camp banter between Alistair and the Dog, I'm pretty sure that would was once a common practice amongst less civilized warriors that owned mabaris, believing that one can optain their fallen foe's strength by eat their flesh or organs or whatever. I do wonder why Dog never gets ill when he attacks Darkspawn, weither you're a Cousland who brought him with you, or you saved his life at Ostagar. I don't think a simple flower would have helped counter-act the effects of the Taint. Maybe you're on to something with Duncan tampering with Dog to make him Grey Warden-ish.

Modifié par T3H Fish, 19 août 2011 - 03:11 .

[whykikyouwhy]

T3H Fish wrote...

Selej wrote...

Unless something changed, I was under the impression the only way we got an Orlesian Warden Commander is if the original warden died. If the warden survived, he'd be the one in Awakenings, not the Orlesian. So I don't know why people are debating saying they're looking for both people when it would be one or the other. Though canon wise, it'd make more sense for the original GW to survived and did the DR.

The reason we're trying to figure it out is because at the end of DA2, Leliana references the Warden Commander, which can mean either the Hero of Ferelden or the Orelsian Warden from Awakening. The Hero isn't referenced specifically in the ending, but all the Origin cameo apperances, if you imported a save, reference the Hero of Ferelden directly, no mention of the Orelsian Warden-Commander at all. Something isn't adding up here.

I'm under the impression there is some sort of 'canon' ending because in some situtaions, certain decisions don't added up when placed with others. It's like trying to do math with a bunch of variables and no clue in what order they go in to get the answer you're given. Some work, others don't quite match up.

I don't recall Leliana making a reference to the "Warden Commander" - for me, it was Cassandra who answered Leliana's half-finished inquiry with "Gone, just like the Warden." Maybe this is different depending on what was imported?

Without the "Commander" portion, it allows for more flexibility.

[mesmerizedish]

They only ever talk about "the Warden."

If you imported your save from Origins into Awakening and did all that fun stuff, then cool! That's whom they're talking about.

If your Warden USed, or if she didn't take part in the Awakening story for her own reasons, then an Orlesian did it, and "the Warden" refers to the Orlesian when Cassandra and Leliana are speaking at the end.

I'm totes bril, so I could tell you whom someone is referring to if you have a specific instance you're curious about, but "the Warden" could refer to either the Hero of Ferelden or the Warden-Commander depending on context (if they're different people). If they're the same person, then they're the same person, obv.

[Anyroad2]

I have suspicions that the deal with Tamlen isnt the same as with Ruck and/or Hespith. I say this because Tamlen and the Dalish Grey Warden were affected by the Eluvian, not by consuming Darkspawn, or by being cut by Darkspawn like Wesley was.

Why the Dalish Warden didnt undergo any abnormal effects from his/her infection is beyond me.

[whykikyouwhy]

Anyroad2 wrote...

I have suspicions that the deal with Tamlen isnt the same as with Ruck and/or Hespith. I say this because Tamlen and the Dalish Grey Warden were affected by the Eluvian, not by consuming Darkspawn, or by being cut by Darkspawn like Wesley was.

Why the Dalish Warden didnt undergo any abnormal effects from his/her infection is beyond me.

Didn't Tamlen disappear and then reappear in his somewhat ghoulish Thriller form? Perhaps during his brief sabbatical, he was exposed to an amplified version of the taint (maybe he got pulled into the Eluvian and into Rotten Twinkie City? or maybe he was partially possessed by something/someone who was already tainted - someone who reached out through the Eluvian?)

So while both Tamlen and the Dalish Warden to be were exposed to the taint/Blight disease, as it were, Tamlen underwent something clearly different in his time away.

Mind you, I'm just gathering this from what I've read and conversations with wise friends. I played a City Elf origin.

[Anyroad2]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Didn't Tamlen disappear and then reappear in his somewhat ghoulish Thriller form? Perhaps during his brief sabbatical, he was exposed to an amplified version of the taint (maybe he got pulled into the Eluvian and into Rotten Twinkie City? or maybe he was partially possessed by something/someone who was already tainted - someone who reached out through the Eluvian?)

So while both Tamlen and the Dalish Warden to be were exposed to the taint/Blight disease, as it were, Tamlen underwent something clearly different in his time away.

Mind you, I'm just gathering this from what I've read and conversations with wise friends. I played a City Elf origin.

Basically what happens is... Player and Tamlen find these elven/tevinter ruins. They both travel to the back of it until they find the Eluvian. Tamlen goes to investigate it, he sees something on the otherside and an underground city, then he touches the mirror. I belive he tries to stop, but he cant. A flash of light goes off. The next thing that the player remembers is seeing Duncan, who is trying to help. Duncan tells the Dalish that he found the Player alone, outside the entrance of the cave that leads to the ruins.  Player + Merrill and another Dalish (if recruited) go back to the ruins to look for Tamlen. They make it to the Eluvian again and meet Duncan there. Duncan tells them that Tamlen is gone, and that he needs to destroy the Eluvian (which he does). When they return, the player is recruited into the Wardens as a cure for the taint ala Hawke Sibling.

The only other times you see Tamlen is during the Gauntlet as a vision and once more when he attacks the Warden camp with the Darkspawn. He appears once in DA2 as well, during Merrills fight with the Pride demon at the end of the Eluvian story as a ghost. He warns Merrill that her curiosity will kill her.

http://images.wikia....amlen_Ghoul.jpg

Though his apperance has changed even more than Ruck/Hespith, he's still able to communicate with the Warden. He'll claim that the "song" told him to attack. Which is diffrent from both Ruck and Hespith, who never show any sign of aggression or any sign of them taking instructions from the Archdemon.

Also... Ruck has been living down in the Deep Roads for 5 years. Tamlen was missing for a year or less.

So yeah... thats why I think Tamlen (and/or the Dalish Warden) had something else done to him, something thats not the typical, run of the mill taint.

Modifié par Anyroad2, 19 août 2011 - 05:47 .

[whykikyouwhy]

It's Tamlen's look that I can't shake. Like I've seen it before, or it closely resembles something and therein lies a clue. He doesn't have the blotchiness of the taint, like we see with Wesley, or even Sophia Dryden. He's sleek-looking. Like a shriek (and he's referred to as one) or the new Darkspawn Emissary. A charred nosferatu.

[T3H Fish]

Tamlen's case is special, I think, because he didn't come in contact with the Taint like the others, whether through contact with Darkspawn blood or consuming Tainted flesh. The Eluvian may have amplified the effects of the Taint, slowly turning Tamlen into a Shriek instead of just a Ghoul like any other sentient creature that is corrupted by it. Whatever magic fuels the Eluvians likely affected the Taint it carried and made it 'different' in comparison to the Taint over-all, like a mutate strand of a virus.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

@ T3H Fish

Mages of old are the ones who first breed Mabaris so maybe this has something to do with this and they have a hidden magical ablility in fighting darkspawn. Who knows? Morrigan is also feeding the dog herbs on the side so maybe she is keeping him healthy. Did anybody notice that the bottom part of the statue for Griffons in legacy look similar to a Mabari's legs and body?

I don't think Tamlen went into the mirror, I think more darkspawn found him and took him along with them. Or the Architect was in the area and found him. I do think the urge to eat normal flesh would have occurred naturally with Tamlen. Tamlen is also off screen for most of the game until the camp is attacked. I do believe he is nearly 3/4 turned into a Shriek when him and the other Shriek's attack the camp. I don't think it makes a difference that he can talk because Bergan and Genevieve are also able to do the same in the book. They never loose this ability of their human side. This could also be the reason that the darkspawn in Awakenings can also talk. The Architect also keeps making the point that wardens are half human and half darkspawn once they take their joining.

So maybe the experiments that the Architect has conducted is causing wardens who turn and not loose their speech and this is why even Tamlen has this ability. I got the impression from Awakening the disciples are wardens who have turned and the Architect hasn't been able to advance his cure as far as he would like, thus he kidnaps the warden in Awakenings. I also got the impression that the Architect is running around during the blight and conducting his experiments and offering his cure to other darkspawn while Alistair and The warden are fighting the blight.

During the battle at the end of the book Maric cuts the hand off of the Architect yet in Awakenings we see him with two hands, so somehow he grew a hand back or magically replaced his hand. Or the developers ignored this detail from the book or they forgot about it which I doubt. The details in the book discribe the Architect as being more a darkspawn and by the time we see him in Awakenings I'm wondering if he has figured out how to regrown his own skin. Kinda like the silence of the lamb thing!

I also got the impression from finishing the book last night that it was the Architect who was giving off the calling or the song for Bergan and Genevieve to find him. Just as Corypheus did in Legacy.
The Architect lets it slip that he lead Bergan and Genevieve to him and they were also tricked in entering the deep roads by the use of the song. Especially Bergan and Genevieve.

The Architect also stated that he knew where the Wardens were at all times when they were in the deep roads because of the brooches. So the brooches had three abilities: speeding up the taint in a warden and also as a tracking device, and for the other darkspawn in the deep roads to not spot the party as easy. It seemed the closer the wardens in the book got to the Architect in the deep roads the less the darkspawn attacked them. There were certain areas in the book that they never see darkspawn at all and they traveled great distances. I think the Architect was lying when he said he couldn't control his brethen. It seemed to me in the book that the darkspawn attacked the party when it was in the best of interest of the Architect. They drew the wardens right to the Architect.
This all happened in the area near Ortan Thaig in the deep roads.

We really don't know how long it takes someone to turn once they have been expoused to the taint. The soldier in the Wending Woods was in the same shape as Wesley. I'm guessing the taint affects people differently and maybe those who have been exposed and who didn't turn right away would have made good wardens because they sort of had a natural immunity like wardens who survive the joining. Just a hunch.

It also seems that Wardens closer to their calling seem to change faster and those who are new to to the order it seems to take longer, this was the case for Fiona than the rest of the party in the deep roads. Duncan's calling is never advanced because of the special dagger. This dagger is discribed as having either regular blood running through it within the blade or it's actually red lyrium? The blade is said to be entirely black and the handle is very ornate.

Someone over at fanfiction.net wrote a great fan fiction of Morrigan finding Duncan and he had changed into a darkspawn. I don't remember the title to this fanfiction, but I read it and it was a good read.

Well we know now, that the Architect, Corypheus, and the Arch Demon can all manage the song and send it out; or, an arch demon was very close by in the book. 
 
Also consider the strange letter/note/codex entry we pick up in DA2 Legacy, that tells of the wardens themselves are shaping or have shaped the Deep Roads not just the dwarves.   I guess if Wardens are changing into darkspawn this would indeed be reshaping the deep roads.  I also think this is the reason for the change in the art direction.  In DA2 and in Legacy, you can actually tell that the darkspawn were once human, or dwarves.  Gosh can you imagine Oghren turning into Genlock how they look now.  I'd think Oghren would be a Genlock Alpha.  Holy Moly!

I'd like to see in a future game or a dlc someone finding the once occupied prison of an Arch Demon that has risen.

Edited for more thoughts, edit x 2! 

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 19 août 2011 - 09:02 .

[whykikyouwhy]

Regarding the Architect and his hand - salamanders are known to regenerate lost limbs.

I'll just let the potential implications in that settle in.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Regarding the Architect and his hand - salamanders are known to regenerate lost limbs.

I'll just let the potential implications in that settle in.

Really, I didn't know that.  So we have the Architect who might be able to regenerate himself and looks like cheese.  Ewwww.    I don't think I'll ever consider cheese the same way again! 

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 19 août 2011 - 06:52 .

[whykikyouwhy]

And why does a certain sparkly-eyed dwarf savant want salamanders, hmmm?? Mad implications I tell you!

[whykikyouwhy]

But how does that explain Salamander!Architect? Was he trying to clone the population, or turn wardens into an amphibious race?

And who holds dominion over who? The Architect or Sandal?

You know, the pillars in the final battle of Legacy did look like heat lamps...

[T3H Fish]

I always wondered what happened to Duncan after Ostagar, since you never do find his dead body or any indication of if he even survived or not.

I have yet to read the book, so I'm only going off what I know from the games. It seems like there's missing links between the games and the books when it comes to the Darkspawn and the Taint. The regeneration thing is scary, but then considering how old and strong the Architect is, growing back a hand probably isn't all that difficult.

But if he has the properties of a salamander, I wouldn't let Sandal get anywhere near him >_>