283 réponses à ce sujet

[Merci357]

Ariella wrote...

I have friends who swear like sailors, ...

I tend to swear when I speak only when I'm startled or really ticked, so it's rare enough. In writing it depends on the circumstance and character.

I swear, and I'm surrounded by people who do, too. It's, in my view, quite normal (and sometimes even healthy!) to do so when the situation calls for it. Overuse it, and it feels forced. Never use it, and it feels forced as well.

Since I want believable characters, "strong language" should be used. Of course quite situational, and it should differ between characters. But it's just another writing tool, and a rather profane character once in a while is fine for me.

Modifié par Merci357, 12 août 2011 - 07:06 .

[nitefyre410]

If you over use curses it comes off as being completely immature you but if you under use it does the same thing. There has to be a balance struck - I don't expect a bandit or a low life to be all to caring about the language that they use but a noble maybe a little cautious. People say Gears of War use the f-bomb well you see the crap those guys are fighting I would be saying "WTF" every other word too. Honestly I think Dragon Age strikes a nice balance and gets away with some colorful innuendo's and insults.

[csfteeeer]

frustratemyself wrote...

I guess it depends if it fits into the setting or not. The swearing didn't bother me in ME2 cause to me it fit with the setting/characters (I also swear like a sailor in real life).

Using f*** as a swear in DA2 would have just been weird and distracting as it doesn't really fit the setting.

what do you mean by "Fits in the setting"?
i don't really see how that works, i mean, nobody ever said F**k or S**t in Mass Effect 1(not that i remember anyways), and yet they do in Mass Effect 2.
i think it simply depends on what the writers want to illustrate (ME2 was darker than ME1, so maybe they wanted to illustrate that with swearing, even though i wouldn't say that's the best method, and i swear a lot too)
on a setting that is filled with Blood and sexual innuendos, i think it would fit, Afterall, i think the under use of Swearing feels very forced and unnatural, because it's kinda like a stress relief, Although, i do also see the over use of it also very forced(Don't believe me? watch this).

Modifié par csfteeeer, 12 août 2011 - 07:13 .

[naledgeborn]

It's not really an issue. RPG's are single player games anyway. It's not like I'm going to be playing it in front of underage siblings. And I curse in my day to day so I really don't notice. Mr. Gaider has the right of it, "occasional but impactful".

[Carol L S]

David Gaider wrote...

Our rule with profanity is "occasional but impactful", with the occasional allowance for a character that swears as part of their personality-- indeed, for such a character the profanity would more or less fade into the background.

The only profanity we argued about was the f-bomb. We had it for a while but eventually removed it as it seemed too distracting.

Thank you!  Don't need it!

[Elhanan]

Agree with the OP; much prefer the language choices and dialogue of DAO (see the increased use of 'sycophant' on the Forums) as opposed to that of DA2. I would rather hear and read Nuglicking Deepstalker as a curse more than the common usage of terms today.

For myself, the most glaring offense comes when Varic pronounces his brother as a SOB. While this may, or may not be literally correct storywise, the choice of profanity seemed poorly chosen seeing as their Mother may be involved. For myself, it did not accent the story, but rather drew me away from both the game and the character of Varric. Another choice, or omitting it completely might have worked a bit more, IMO.

In the same way, the use of blasphemy concerning Andraste also detracted from the tale more in the latter game. Going from somewhat humerous to more obscure and unique usage seemed to distract and detract from the game itself.

Salty language if used should season dialogue; not pack it for shipping.

[Firky]

Much as I would usually think DGs word was law, I disagree. In W2 the overabundance of swearing was great. Mental blank and iPad I can't use. What's the word for it? Like "frack" in BattleStar Galactica or "plough" in Witcher 2. F bomb combined with that FTW.

[thats1evildude]

Elhanan wrote...

While this may, or may not be literally correct storywise, the choice of profanity seemed poorly chosen seeing as their Mother may be involved.

Yup. That was the joke.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 12 août 2011 - 12:23 .

[Dubya75]

In response to the OP:

So...DA2 is doing it right and needs to keep doing it right?
I totally agree!
I also find nudity completely unnecessary, so again, I hope BioWare keep doing it the way they are doing it.
Suggestion after all is much more effective than explicit nudity and sex scenes.
TW2 had way too much swearing and the nudity had no effect beyond satisfying the more sexually perverse among us.
Mature content does not need nudity or swearing at all. It is the underlying theme that defines it as either mature or immature.
In fact, the more nudity and swearing you get, the more immature the game will appear.

[Gespenst]

Elhanan wrote...

For myself, the most glaring offense comes when Varic pronounces his brother as a SOB. While this may, or may not be literally correct storywise, the choice of profanity seemed poorly chosen seeing as their Mother may be involved.

I actually thought that was pretty funny.

"Bartrand! You son of a ****! (Sorry, mother)"

Edit: That's a weird kind of auto censor - it's not a four letter word.

Modifié par Gespenst, 12 août 2011 - 12:39 .

[alex90c]

I swear. Almost everyone I know swears. However I think it should really depend on the character we're dealing with - say for example hearing Bethany swear would just be a 'lolwut?' moment because she's all innocent and stuff, but if Isabela rarely swore I would have found it odd because, well, she's crude (among other things) and it makes sense for her to swear.

What I'd really like for just random NPCs though is that they swear frequently (when they have dialogue if they're just discussing something normally) but for it to feel natural. As an example, I myself if I'm talking to a friend I could say like "f*cking hell, last night I ..." and I wouldn't emphasise the swearing at all and it would just be a normal conversation (rather than "woah he swore!!!").

Of course, get too creative with the curses and it ends up making a game like DA sound far too contemporary when it's meant to have a kind of medieval fantasy vibe.

[Yrkoon]

Dubya75 wrote...

In fact, the more nudity and swearing you get, the more immature the game will appear.

To you, maybe.  But I don't think there's such a cut-and-dry  scale, here, where we can just measure the amount of nudity and profanity  in a game and then  say: well, X had more nudity/cursing than Y, therefore, it's less mature.

In and of themselves, Nudity, Violence and Profanity are neither mature nor immature.   They're like   individual colors of a painting.   They're neutral by themselves.   It's where they're placed  and where they're not,  and the reasons they're placed there and the reasons they aren't  that matters.


Dragon Age: Origins had no swearing or nudity  in it at all.   And it was a glaring flaw in an otherwise perfect game atmosphere.  There were many, many times where I'd be playing and think to myself:  wait a minute.    Not only  is it unrealistic for that  unwashed, uneducated pirate thug to be speaking "properly", but  the devs seem to be  intentionally trying to appeal to  Jr.'s parents as well.  And since I'm in my 30s, that almost felt insulting.   "Oh no, sex has to be  done with clothes on here because of the kiddies...  And  we've got to say  "sod it!" instead of "F**K it"... because, you know, we don't want to  be blamed for influencing Jr. to cuss in real life!"   To hell with our artistic visions.

On the other hand, The Witcher 2 took it to the opposite extreme.  Proper Nobles,  even princes and Kings were spitting out cuss words left and right.  ALL sex was  Nude, frontal,  and graphic.   Soft Porn. period.   No subtlety at all.

A mix of the two is best.  And that also applies to violence.   Poking someone  in the back with a dagger should not cause the entire screen to gush red.  On the other hand,   cleaving someone's body  half with a Greatsword  should be a rare thing and the gore that it causes should reflect  the extreme violence that just occured.


TL;DR:  If you're aiming to make a mature game,  Don't insult your adult audience  with a  PG-13 atmosphere.  And by the same token,   Don't turn us off with interactive pornos.  Do something in between.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 12 août 2011 - 01:18 .

[Pzykozis]

Hmm, 'cursing' is taboo and has impact?

A'ight, I'd probably make a sailor blush even infront of my dear old mum sometimes, but that's just the way I and the people around me talk, swearing never has any real impact c's and f's get thrown around like silicon at a strip club maybe not so much infront of family but meh.

For me, whilst the 'Plough 'em all' song in TW2 was abit forced feeling (didn't help that it looped so often) the majority of swearing was fairly normal. The lack of swearing within the wider media as a whole though and especially within M/18 rated games seems kinda forced too, but meh I'd say its a tricky thing since there's such a wide market around and people have huge variances in sensibilities and the like, it is probably better to err on the perhaps more 'proper' side and not outrage or distance people who don't 'swear' so much, since I can't say it bothers me too much to have a lack of swearing.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Ariella wrote...

 I just hope they keep pushing the envelope without feeling the need to fall back on "colorful metaphor" to show "maturity".

I think the problem is how people interpret the word 'mature'. Many would argue that swearing is immature, as in juvenile and childish, yet at the same time we live in a world where most don't want immature persons, ie children, exposed to that sort of language.

So while explicit language or content marks a medium as for mature-aged audiences, it doesn't mean the content isn't juvenile, crass, or even any good, simply inappropriate for minors. It's a rating issue, nothing more.

Edit: Swearing in games doesn't bother me so long as it's not being thrown in just to be 'edgy'. It did distract me a little in DA2 because I'd become quite used to Origin's 'sod', which I don't think made it into the sequel at all despite several characters being Fereldan.

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 12 août 2011 - 02:17 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Where I am from, Amsterdam, cursing is a part of the culture. There are rules about how to curse well. The dialect here has even it's own little dictionary. It has it's roots in the 1200 years of history of this city. In that time a lot of cultures influenced the dialect. These days a second dialect exists. It's spoken by the kids on the streets. Many of the words are coming from the later cultures that came to our city. Amsterdam isn't the only city which has that. I think we see that all over the world. It's about time that dialects like that and their curses are accepted as being normal. There is nothing bad about it. I can understand that one adapts in forums, though. It is easy to understand that not all people like it because some expressions are probably unacceptable to some cultures. So I adapt here. To remove it entirely from a game feels artificial, though. IRL if I am injured chances are that I curse from here to Tokio. So, I would understand if that happens in a game. I think curses invented by the authors would be a great concession. We already have things like "knife ears". Would be cool to see some more of those.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 12 août 2011 - 02:48 .

[Cutlass Jack]

PresidentCowboy wrote...

I remember Aria in ME2's "Don't. F**k. With Aria.". I don't think I'd ever heard any profanity in ME until that point so it was just like woahhhhhhhhhh what?

I found that line so eyeroll inducing. Aria was trying too hard to sound badass and failing miserably.

[happy_daiz]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

PresidentCowboy wrote...

I remember Aria in ME2's "Don't. F**k. With Aria.". I don't think I'd ever heard any profanity in ME until that point so it was just like woahhhhhhhhhh what?

I found that line so eyeroll inducing. Aria was trying too hard to sound badass and failing miserably.

Maybe she was PMSing?

Speaking of Aria, I didn't know until my husband told me a couple of days ago that Aria was voiced by Carrie Anne Moss. How on earth did I miss that? I thought she sounded familiar, but...derp. Ooh, and according to IMDb, it's "rumored" that she'll be the VA for Aria in ME3. Sweet.

[LadyJaneGrey]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

PresidentCowboy wrote...

I remember Aria in ME2's "Don't. F**k. With Aria.". I don't think I'd ever heard any profanity in ME until that point so it was just like woahhhhhhhhhh what?

I found that line so eyeroll inducing. Aria was trying too hard to sound badass and failing miserably.

I laughed so hard the cat ran away.  I wanted to pat her on the head and tell her, "it's okay, sweetie.  Maybe next time you'll get it right." 

[Elhanan]

Gespenst wrote...

I actually thought that was pretty funny.

"Bartrand! You son of a ****! (Sorry, mother)"

Edit: That's a weird kind of auto censor - it's not a four letter word.

But that is part of my point; wrong occasion for a jest, if that was the intent. And if it was meant as a curse, it also failed for the reason posted earlier.

A Kirk-esque shout of "Bartrand!" by itself would have done at least as well, IMO.

@ Yrkoon - not to argue, but I believe DAO did have some profanity; just not nearly as much as DA2.

Modifié par Elhanan, 12 août 2011 - 03:08 .

[Cutlass Jack]

happy_daiz wrote...

Speaking of Aria, I didn't know until my husband told me a couple of days ago that Aria was voiced by Carrie Anne Moss. How on earth did I miss that? I thought she sounded familiar, but...derp. Ooh, and according to IMDb, it's "rumored" that she'll be the VA for Aria in ME3. Sweet.

Actually I did know this. But only because prior to launch they did a video featuring the voice actors and she was in it.

[KLUME777]

thats1evildude wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Isabela uses "sh*t" at least once, if memory serves. It might be twice actually, but I specifically remember one instance.

Sure, in DA2, but not in Origins. Which is my point: I found the absence of any actual swearing in Origins to be kind of ... forced.

The inclusion of swears actually was an improvement in DA2, as it did help make the dialogue feel more natural. Consider the scene where Cassandra first interrupts Varric's story. Which works better?

"You're lying! That's not what really happened."

"Bull****! That's not what really happened."

The first line seems kinda awkward, IMHO. A lack of strong language can actually undermine some scenes.

I disagree. I like swearing when it is used effectively, but i dislike it when i feel it doesn't fit the setting. Dragon Age is fantasy/Lord of the rings. Swearing doesn't belong in there and i think it ruins it. I was glad Origins had no swearing.

[nitefyre410]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

PresidentCowboy wrote...

I remember Aria in ME2's "Don't. F**k. With Aria.". I don't think I'd ever heard any profanity in ME until that point so it was just like woahhhhhhhhhh what?

I found that line so eyeroll inducing. Aria was trying too hard to sound badass and failing miserably.

  

Yeah I kinda just rolled my eyes - they could have left at the whole queen speech that would have gotten the point across better.  Plus Carrie Anne Moss delivery on that line - not her best.  

[happy_daiz]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

happy_daiz wrote...

Speaking of Aria, I didn't know until my husband told me a couple of days ago that Aria was voiced by Carrie Anne Moss. How on earth did I miss that? I thought she sounded familiar, but...derp. Ooh, and according to IMDb, it's "rumored" that she'll be the VA for Aria in ME3. Sweet.

Actually I did know this. But only because prior to launch they did a video featuring the voice actors and she was in it.

OK, I apparently missed that too. Maker's flaming ****. 

[Mr.House]

KLUME777 wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Isabela uses "sh*t" at least once, if memory serves. It might be twice actually, but I specifically remember one instance.

Sure, in DA2, but not in Origins. Which is my point: I found the absence of any actual swearing in Origins to be kind of ... forced.

The inclusion of swears actually was an improvement in DA2, as it did help make the dialogue feel more natural. Consider the scene where Cassandra first interrupts Varric's story. Which works better?

"You're lying! That's not what really happened."

"Bull****! That's not what really happened."

The first line seems kinda awkward, IMHO. A lack of strong language can actually undermine some scenes.

I disagree. I like swearing when it is used effectively, but i dislike it when i feel it doesn't fit the setting. Dragon Age is fantasy/Lord of the rings. Swearing doesn't belong in there and i think it ruins it. I was glad Origins had no swearing.

DAO had swearing. It just didn't have sh*t. DA2 has sh*t, including all the swear words from DAO.