283 réponses à ce sujet

[ZabiGG]

ZabiGG wrote...

lol Sutekh... It was actually because of a popular song from that period (Une rose for Isabelle)... Some of us just wish our mothers weren't so naive and uneducated at the time, but I guess that's life

@dhiro, I don't know how it works in your country, but changing names here is quite complicated
need
@ipgd

This is the last answer you will ever get from me. Contrary to you, I don't need [edit: to] define myself and my image according to my sexual preferences.

But I do feel for you because I have a lot of gay friends who were confronted with contempt and bigotry all of their life and paid a hefty price for their "choice" -- I don't believe it is a choice, I'm just stating a common misconception. Just stop TRYING to be a personnage.

[ipgd]

ZabiGG wrote...

@ipgd

This is the last answer you will ever get from me.

You've said that a couple of times now. If you're not actually going to follow through with this you should probably just stop saying it.

Contrary to you, I don't need define myself and my image according to my sexual preferences.

But I do feel for you because I have a lot of gay friends who were confronted with contempt and bigotry all of their life and paid a hefty price for their "choice" -- I don't believe it is a choice, I'm just stating a common misconception. Just stop TRYING to be a personnage.

haha oh lord.

I think it would be pretty difficult to "define myself and my image according to my sexual preferences" in the way you think I am given that I'm, you know, straight.

Modifié par ipgd, 13 août 2011 - 03:28 .

[Dhiro]

So that's it? Your name means something you despise and you're just going to sit here and complain instead of doing something about it? Believe me, I know how bad bullying can be, and drinking from the self-pity cup won't make things better.

[Tasmen]

ZabiGG wrote...
This is the last answer you will ever get from me. Contrary to you, I don't need define myself and my image according to my sexual preferences.

But I do feel for you because I have a lot of gay friends who were confronted with contempt and bigotry all of their life and paid a hefty price for their "choice" -- I don't believe it is a choice, I'm just stating a common misconception. Just stop TRYING to be a personnage.

Uh but you define yourself by your name? 

As to the picture, sometimes a picture is just a picture.

[ZabiGG]

ipgd wrote...

ZabiGG wrote...

@ipgd

This is the last answer you will ever get from me.

You've said that a couple of times now. If you're not actually going to follow through with this you should probably just stop saying it.

Contrary to you, I don't need define myself and my image according to my sexual preferences.

But I do feel for you because I have a lot of gay friends who were confronted with contempt and bigotry all of their life and paid a hefty price for their "choice" -- I don't believe it is a choice, I'm just stating a common misconception. Just stop TRYING to be a personnage.

haha oh lord.

I think it would be pretty difficult to "define myself and my image according to my sexual preferences" in the way you think I am given that I'm, you know, straight.

Now that's a swear-less shocker. Really.

Lurking is much more fun. See ya.

[Tasmen]

ZabiGG wrote...


Now that's a swear-less shocker. Really.

Lurking is much more fun. See ya.

Is that your last last response to ipgd or do you have another in the hopper?

[Aviena]

I think it would be pretty difficult to "define myself and my image according to my sexual preferences" in the way you think I am given that I'm, you know, straight.

I think I love you.

Anyway, I think the writers did a great job with the level of "real life" profanity in DA2. None of it felt forced. Isabela on the Wounded Coast in Act II comes to mind: "Evets? ****..."

[ipgd]

ZabiGG wrote...

Now that's a swear-less shocker. Really.

Yes. Contrary to what my avatar might suggest, I am not, in fact, a fabulous drag queen, however unfortunate for me that may be.

[Drone696]

On a sidenote:
The name Isabela and variations thereof is really common in all romanic and germanic (Elizabeth) languages. It supposedly roots in the hebraic elisheva, meaning something like "God is my oath", if that's comforting for anyone who defines their personality by a given name.
I'm sure you can look it up on wikipedia or something like that, but I#m too tired to search for it right now...

[Realmzmaster]

ipgd wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

If my friend above is upset no one would notice. Even when upset his frequency of cursing remains the same.

It might just be me, but I'm pretty sure "frequency of profanity use" is not the sole indicator of emotion. If your friend has a face or vocal cords I think people would be able to figure out that he is upset.

Using profanity has absolutely nothing to do with your vocabulary or lack thereof, goyz. Can we not repeat these meaningless, insulting stock cliches over and over and over again?

Sorry in my neighborhood MF is used as a noun, pronoun, verb, adjective, and interjection. The people in my neighborhood cannot or well not express themselves in any other way. Many of them could not string together a coherent sentence without cursing. It gets to be comical. So for them it is because of the lack of vocabulary. I and my wife have taught for many years.  If you expand the vocabulary many of them find other ways to express themselves without cursing.

[Zanallen]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Sorry in my neighborhood MF is used as a noun, pronoun, verb, adjective, and interjection. The people in my neighborhood cannot or well not express themselves in any other way. Many of them could not string together a coherent sentence without cursing. It gets to be comical. So for them it is because of the lack of vocabulary. I and my wife have taught for many years.  If you expand the vocabulary many of them find other ways to express themselves without cursing.

Lol, I was at the bookstore today and I saw this kid who couldn't have been more than ten or eleven cursing up a storm. It was comical and a little sad at the same time.

[Zanallen]

ipgd wrote...

Yes. Contrary to what my avatar might suggest, I am not, in fact, a fabulous drag queen, however unfortunate for me that may be.

You should track down Wong Foo.

[Elhanan]

ipgd wrote...

Don't you think it's a bit ironic to say that and then discount Isabela's "internal beauty" specifically because of her outward appearance?

If you actually spoke to her it would be pretty clear that she is very far from a one note stereotypical fanservice character.

I never grew close to Isabelle because of her language and actions. She favors sex for pleasure, where I prefer to actually have a LI for L. Personally, I was more content trying to woo Aveline and failing, rather than for simply marking another notch on a bedpost.

Beauty is on the inside, but I still prefer it wrapped in something more appealing than disposable wipes.

[In Exile]

Elhanan wrote...
I never grew close to Isabelle because of her language and actions. She favors sex for pleasure, where I prefer to actually have a LI for L. Personally, I was more content trying to woo Aveline and failing, rather than for simply marking another notch on a bedpost.

I really, really pity your romantic relationships if the kind of sex you have is devoid of pleasure. That is all. 

Beauty is on the inside, but I still prefer it wrapped in something more appealing than disposable wipes.

You know what? That isn't all. It's great that you think you're a moral arbiter and all, but Isabella (and, in fact, pretty much all people who have healthy casual sex) treat themselves with respect. Having sex for fun is anything but about disrespect. 

[Elhanan]

Yrkoon wrote...

LOL

You're talking about the leadership of an organization that launches exalted marches.  Ie.  WARS to destroy  civilizations and organizations that oppose them.

Remind me again where ettiquette comes into the picture here.  And while you're at it, explain to me why it's OK for Cassandra to kidnap Varric and stick a knife to his throat but Cussing is too "improper"...

Appearances often means something; much like for the RL hypocrites of our shared historical past. While we know these types would often do unspeakable things in their beliefs, the appearance would often be under noble, pure, and honorable masks; hence the hypocrisy.

Again, it would have been my own preference to have Cassandra been more in control; might have seemed more chilling like Milady de Winter from The Three Musketeers, or Mrs Eleanor Shaw Islelan from The Manchurian Candidate.

Modifié par Elhanan, 13 août 2011 - 04:56 .

[Elhanan]

In Exile wrote...

I really, really pity your romantic relationships if the kind of sex you have is devoid of pleasure. That is all. 

Evidently not....

You know what? That isn't all. It's great that you think you're a moral arbiter and all, but Isabella (and, in fact, pretty much all people who have healthy casual sex) treat themselves with respect. Having sex for fun is anything but about disrespect. 

As you say, it is casual sex, and I prefer actual love. Now back to the topic....

[ipgd]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Sorry in my neighborhood MF is used as a noun, pronoun, verb, adjective, and interjection. The people in my neighborhood cannot or well not express themselves in any other way. Many of them could not string together a coherent sentence without cursing. It gets to be comical. So for them it is because of the lack of vocabulary. I and my wife have taught for many years.  If you expand the vocabulary many of them find other ways to express themselves without cursing.

Correlation is not causation. Just because a person uses frequent profanity and also has a crappy vocabulary does not mean said vocabulary is crappy because he frequently uses profanity, or that he frequently uses profanity because his vocabulary is crappy.

Sometimes a person uses a certain word because that certain word means a certain thing, and he wants to say that certain thing, not some other thing that is more "proper". Sometimes a person is not concerned with meticulously rationing out his use of profanity, because he knows how to use the tools of language and communication beyond profanity, such as expression and tone and phrasing and context, to ensure his feelings and intents are conveyed. Sometimes a person wants to be flippant and free with his use of profanity, because it conveys an image that is accurate to his personality and is a personally desirable outward portrayal. Sometimes profanity just doesn't ****ing mean anything and is ridiculous to fuss about. And some mother****ing times writing a mother****er who uses mother**** as a noun, pronoun, verb, adjective and interjection is mother****ing verisimilitudinous.

But never have I seen any sort of indication that a poor vocabulary and profanity are in any way linked, or that this argument has any use in a discussion beyond helping you feel intellectually superior to other people.

Elhanan wrote...

I never grew close to Isabelle because of her language and actions. She favors sex for pleasure, where I prefer to actually have a LI for L. Personally, I was more content trying to woo Aveline and failing, rather than for simply marking another notch on a bedpost.

Beauty is on the inside, but I still prefer it wrapped in something more appealing than disposable wipes.

Why is having sex for pleasure a bad thing? That's generally the reason most people have sex. Even for the breeders among us, people only make a couple of babies out of the thousands of orgasms they have in their lives. Sex is first and foremost a matter of physical and emotional intimacy and pleasure, and it's a flexible, nebulous thing that can mean many things, even for the same people on different nights. Enjoying sex and having loving sex are not mutually exclusive, and you can even be capable of having detached, casual sex with certain people without impugning on your own ability to enjoy it in its many other contexts.

And what, exactly, is so unappealing about Isabela's actions? It can't be because she's "diseased" -- she's shown directly on screen taking responsibility for her STIs and having them treated before she can infect her partners. It can't be because she doesn't have self-respect, since, well, if you speak to her at all throughout the game, she makes it pretty clear that she has an incredibly strong character and that she is assured and healthy in her sexual outlets. Are women who exercise their own sexual agency really that intimidating?

Modifié par ipgd, 13 août 2011 - 05:01 .

[Drone696]

ipgd wrote...

*snip*

... she has an incredibly strong character and (...) she is assured and healthy in her sexual outlets. Are women who exercise their own sexual agency really that intimidating?

Obviously yes. And that's really sad.

edited for formatting.

Modifié par rapunzel696, 13 août 2011 - 05:24 .

[Elhanan]

ipgd wrote...

Why is having sex for pleasure a bad thing? That's generally the reason most people have sex. Even for the breeders among us, people only make a couple of babies out of the thousands of orgasms they have in their lives. Sex is first and foremost a matter of physical and emotional intimacy and pleasure, and it's a flexible, nebulous thing that can mean many things, even for the same people on different nights. Enjoying sex and having loving sex are not mutually exclusive, and you can even be capable of having detached, casual sex with certain people without impugning on your own ability to enjoy it in its many other contexts.

And what, exactly, is so unappealing about Isabela's actions? It can't be because she's "diseased" -- she's shown directly on screen taking responsibility for her STIs and having them treated before she can infect her partners. It can't be because she doesn't have self-respect, since, well, if you speak to her at all throughout the game, she makes it pretty clear that she has an incredibly strong character and that she is assured and healthy in her sexual outlets. Are women who exercise their own sexual agency really that intimidating?

Pls do not misundertand: sex is pleasing. I simply prefer to have it associated with love; my choice. Nothing intimidating about promescuity; just do not wish to be among or linked to the promiscuous. Anders has enough to do, it seems.

Now back to language....

[Cutlass Jack]

Elhanan wrote...

As you say, it is casual sex, and I prefer actual love. Now back to the topic....

Then its a shame you let yourself be swayed by appearances and preconceptions. Actual love is what's at the heart of that relationship and its not at all defined by sex.

[In Exile]

Elhanan wrote...
As you say, it is casual sex, and I prefer actual love. Now back to the topic....

Sex is independent of love. You can love someone without having sex with them (romantically) and you can have sex with someone without loving them. Fidelity (either sexual or emotional) and the extent it should be present belongs only to the people in the relationship. 

Also, just because this is a thread on language, saying "actual" love suggests there is a kind of "fake" love around you want to run into. 

Isabella, as a character, is probably the most interestingly commited character of the LI's. She full stop will put her life on hold for Hawke, and no one else does that. 

Modifié par In Exile, 13 août 2011 - 05:52 .

[Elhanan]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Then its a shame you let yourself be swayed by appearances and preconceptions. Actual love is what's at the heart of that relationship and its not at all defined by sex.

It would seem the preconceptions are more with those focused on conception; not myself.

I like chocolate, and had chocolate quite often when I was married. Now I have had access to chocolate now and again since my divorce, and have come close to indulging a few times since; reason it is called tempting and alluring. But a diet of chocolate alone is not what I desire; again I prefer love. If and when that occurs, then I hope to have both dinner and dessert.

And as all this is all way OT, further inquiries and discussion should be made elsewhere, or PM; not here pls.

[leggywillow]

ipgd wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Sorry in my neighborhood MF is used as a noun, pronoun, verb, adjective, and interjection. The people in my neighborhood cannot or well not express themselves in any other way. Many of them could not string together a coherent sentence without cursing. It gets to be comical. So for them it is because of the lack of vocabulary. I and my wife have taught for many years.  If you expand the vocabulary many of them find other ways to express themselves without cursing.

Correlation is not causation. Just because a person uses frequent profanity and also has a crappy vocabulary does not mean said vocabulary is crappy because he frequently uses profanity, or that he frequently uses profanity because his vocabulary is crappy.

Quoting ipgd for the mad truth that pours from her fingertips.

If we're submitting personal anecdotes as evidence, I have one too.  My husband and are I both college-educated.  I am getting a doctorate in a healthcare profession, and I've written articles in published scientific journals.  And we both curse like sailors.  I do use mother****er as a noun, pronoun, verb, adjective, and interjection.  I curse all the time, and I haven't noticed my vocabulary slowly shrinking or seen my brain cells shriveling up.

Yeah, you've seen people with small vocabularies and little education who curse a lot.  So have I, so I'm certainly not going to be deny that it's common.  However, I can also list tons of educated, well-read people who curse frequently.  Correlation does not equal causation.

Modifié par leggywillow, 13 août 2011 - 06:13 .

[Yrkoon]

Elhanan wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

LOL

You're talking about the leadership of an organization that launches exalted marches.  Ie.  WARS to destroy  civilizations and organizations that oppose them.

Remind me again where ettiquette comes into the picture here.  And while you're at it, explain to me why it's OK for Cassandra to kidnap Varric and stick a knife to his throat but Cussing is too "improper"...

Appearances often means something; much like for the RL hypocrites of our shared historical past. While we know these types would often do unspeakable things in their beliefs, the appearance would often be under noble, pure, and honorable masks; hence the hypocrisy.

Well, except that in Cassandra's case, the interrogation of Varric does not occur in public.  It occurs in  private.  in a dark room, where Cassandra can be herself, instead  of having to  live up to the  image that you're  ascribing to the Chantry.  Ergo, her anger, threats, and cussing are believable...  natural.    Even expected.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 13 août 2011 - 07:15 .

[Ariella]

Yrkoon wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

LOL

You're talking about the leadership of an organization that launches exalted marches.  Ie.  WARS to destroy  civilizations and organizations that oppose them.

Remind me again where ettiquette comes into the picture here.  And while you're at it, explain to me why it's OK for Cassandra to kidnap Varric and stick a knife to his throat but Cussing is too "improper"...

Appearances often means something; much like for the RL hypocrites of our shared historical past. While we know these types would often do unspeakable things in their beliefs, the appearance would often be under noble, pure, and honorable masks; hence the hypocrisy.

Well, except that in Cassandra's case, the interrogation of Varric does not occur in public.  It occurs in  private.  in a dark room, where Cassandra can be herself, instead of putting on Airs  so as to be the noble representitive of the Chantry that the public  knows.

Actually that specific scene feels like something out of a police procedural. She's using the language to push Varric into a corner and try and rile him to get him to make a mistake and tell the truth. What Cassie doesn't know is that Varric actually wants the truth about his friend known, wants the real story out there, so she approaches this like any other interrogation.