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Learning To Care About Miranda


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#26
Fata Morgana

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Seboist wrote...

Fata Morgana wrote...

Seboist wrote...

HogarthHughes 3 wrote...

I lost interest in Miranda when she got nice on the Normandy, an ice queen would have been great fun.  Oh and I really didn't like how she is so perturbed by the thought of giving Cerberus the Collector Base.   She is the ruthless Cerberus cheerleader the entire game, but when it comes to preserving the technology of the enemy in order to learn from it we've gone too far?   Her loyalty to Cerberus and TIM fall apart because of minor moral qualms about preserving technology that was used to kill innocents?  (which is nothing compared to other things Cerberus has done, not even counting rogue Cells like Pragia)

Still, at the very least she isn't a goody-two-shoes.  Miranda is okay, I would have much more respect for her though if she stuck to her guns better and weren't so quick to get chummy with Shepard.


It's very bizarre given the fact that she defends the experiments on Husks on the basis of "they were already dead".


After many replays, the feel I get from Miranda, taking all her character parts as a whole is: Self-confident naivete. She thinks she knows exactly what's going on, and most of the time she has no idea. She things she's always right when 90% of the time she's hilariously wrong.

She defended the husk thing because most likely she's never seen a living person forced onto a spike and turned into a husk; she's only seen the resulting husks. Moreover, she heard about the project third hand, and because she "knows" that TIM is not a bad person, she accepted his explanation for events.  But when she's at the Collector Base, she doesn't have a dry, third-hand report explaning everything to her; instead, she actually had to sit and watch while humans were liquified to make that thing. Consequently, she rejects the horror and sides with Paragon Shepard. 

Because of her comedic wrongness, I no longer hate Miranda the way I used to. She puts on this pose of perfection, probably because in reality she has low self-esteem. That's my read. 


I really doubt a woman who's worked with Cerberus for so long and is one of the few agents to get the honor of meeting TIM in person in his space station would be so naive and ignorant about such things. This is also the same person who after gunning down Wilson and Niket (if you let her) engages in deadpan humor right after.


She was naive enough not to realize that Niket betrayed her even though it was obvious. She was naive enough to think that she would be strong in creating a biotic shield as a 1,000 year old Justicar or the most powerful human biotic in existance.

Naive doesn't mean 'innocent', per se. It can just mean having a lack of judgement, which Miranda shows time and again. Even being willing to shoot Wilson without first trying to find out more about why he sabotaged project lazarus is part of that poor judgement. 

#27
MattDratt

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Nah. I never really liked Miranda either, still don't.

#28
MisterJB

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ubermensch007 wrote...

I look forward to seeing how much of a postive influence Shepard has on Ms.Lawson in Mass Effect 3.Hopefully to the point where she starts to value her crewmates and not see them as expendable...:pinched:

How she as Project Lead had so little if any concern or remorse about leaving those on the Lazarus Station behind.Really rubed me the wrong way. <_<

Miranda values her crewmates. Unlike what you claim, Miranda expresses anger over those who died in the Lazarus station and is happy if you find the crew still alive in the CB. She simply knows that the missiom must come first.

That whole "control chip" diatribe she gave to Shepard.Is so Goddamn Hypocritical -- after you hear her tell you about how her own father treated her like a slave.Yet b/c she sees Shepard being enslaved as being for the "good of Humanity" it makes it okay in her mind.That was pretty damn outrageous!!

You are making a comparision between controling every aspect of a child's life in order to satisfy one's own ego and placing a security measure on the head of a fully trained N7 Marine, who had already proven to be an enemy of Cerberus and was now being given command over the most important mission in the history of the human race.
Don't.

#29
Golden Owl

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ubermensch007 wrote...

I don't see Miranda's belief that destroying the Coolector Base was out of character -- If you take into consideration what she saw happen to the Cerberus team sent to research the Derelict Reaper...

I believe that that is the moment wher her veiws of Cerberus changed."No matter the cost" Is not something that she believes in anymore.And  to piggy back on what Saphra has said.Miranda is more my friend and sister than love interest in Mass Effect 2.And I too really like the scene prior to the Suicide Mission when she salutes Commander Shepard and smiles at him.The look on her face is as one who has just had a great weight or burden removed off their shoulders.

I look forward to seeing how much of a postive influence Shepard has on Ms.Lawson in Mass Effect 3.Hopefully to the point where she starts to value her crewmates and not see them as expendable...:pinched:


Other than having the gall to tell Shepard to his face that she would have prefered to enslave him to Cerberus will.How she as Project Lead had so little if any concern or remorse about leaving those on the Lazarus Station behind.Really rubed me the wrong way. <_<

That whole "control chip" diatribe she gave to Shepard.Is so Goddamn Hypocritical -- after you hear her tell you about how her own father treated her like a slave.Yet b/c she sees Shepard being enslaved as being for the "good of Humanity" it makes it okay in her mind.That was pretty damn outrageous!!

But I let that sh!t slide, once I got to know her better and realized how good she was to have on my team in combat...


The bolded type...THIS!

#30
Guest_Saphra Deden_*

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Golden Owl wrote...

Oriana is her sister...I'm talking about Miranda expanding her circle of empathy beyond she and her close relation....c'mon Saphra, you know enough about how I think to know that doesn't wash with me.


I can see where you are coming from here, but I think you are being a little hard on her. You might be mistaking her emotional distance as an indication that she just doesn't care.

She seems to care about Jacob atter all, forwarding the information on his father to give him a chance at closure. Her hurt when Jacob gets mad at her is evident that whatever the result, her intentions were good.

I don't think it's fair to blame her for not becoming too attached to strangers. At the end of the day somebody has to be the voice of logic and reason, and that's her.

She does after all, in private, admit that she feels that Jack's torture was wrong.


Regarding the husks that were brought up, I don't think that applies at all. There is no indication that Cerberus ever impaled anybody to create them. The mission concerning them in ME1 is very unclear as to exactly what happened and exactly what Cerberus' involvement was.

#31
HogarthHughes 3

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Seboist wrote...

I really doubt a woman who's worked with Cerberus for so long and is one of the few agents to get the honor of meeting TIM in person in his space station would be so naive and ignorant about such things. This is also the same person who after gunning down Wilson and Niket (if you let her) engages in deadpan humor right after.


Seriously, how could she be so close to TIM and yet be so ignorant of Cerberus' methods ands deeds?

#32
MisterJB

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Fata Morgana wrote...
She was naive enough not to realize that Niket betrayed her even though it was obvious.

Completely justified. Niket was her only childhood friend who had already helped her once against her father.

She was naive enough to think that she would be strong in creating a biotic shield as a 1,000 year old Justicar or the most powerful human biotic in existance.

Miranda did not know how long the corridor was or how many times they would be attacked by Collectors or Husks. Had it been just a little bit shorter, she would have gotten everyone through safely.

#33
Seboist

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HogarthHughes 3 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

I really doubt a woman who's worked with Cerberus for so long and is one of the few agents to get the honor of meeting TIM in person in his space station would be so naive and ignorant about such things. This is also the same person who after gunning down Wilson and Niket (if you let her) engages in deadpan humor right after.


Seriously, how could she be so close to TIM and yet be so ignorant of Cerberus' methods ands deeds?


Indeed, even Kelly is aware of it "our methods are harsh....".

#34
ThePwener

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Seboist wrote...

Indeed, even Kelly is aware of it "our methods are harsh....".


I think she's talking about her sex life.

#35
Seboist

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ThePwener wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Indeed, even Kelly is aware of it "our methods are harsh....".


I think she's talking about her sex life.


Very odd thing to say after Shepard asked about her view of Cerberus wouldn't you say? :happy:

#36
ThePwener

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Seboist wrote...
Very odd thing to say after Shepard asked about her view of Cerberus wouldn't you say? :happy:


lol

#37
Golden Owl

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

Oriana is her sister...I'm talking about Miranda expanding her circle of empathy beyond she and her close relation....c'mon Saphra, you know enough about how I think to know that doesn't wash with me.


I can see where you are coming from here, but I think you are being a little hard on her. You might be mistaking her emotional distance as an indication that she just doesn't care.

She seems to care about Jacob atter all, forwarding the information on his father to give him a chance at closure. Her hurt when Jacob gets mad at her is evident that whatever the result, her intentions were good.


I don't think it's fair to blame her for not becoming too attached to strangers. At the end of the day somebody has to be the voice of logic and reason, and that's her.

She does after all, in private, admit that she feels that Jack's torture was wrong.


Regarding the husks that were brought up, I don't think that applies at all. There is no indication that Cerberus ever impaled anybody to create them. The mission concerning them in ME1 is very unclear as to exactly what happened and exactly what Cerberus' involvement was.


Bolded is a brilliant point Saphra...you have me there.

As for the Husks....everyone please understand, unrelated to the Miranda topic....I still seriously question that one Saphra...Cerberus must have known very, very soon into the program that the only way to create a Husk is to kill someone for it....Cerberus intention as known in game was to find a way to use Husks as Shock Troopers...Thats where it gets very grey, the question being where do they find enough Husks to make this Army of Shock Troopers?...But this topic is a serious derailment of the topic at hand.

#38
Golden Owl

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MisterJB wrote...

Fata Morgana wrote...
She was naive enough not to realize that Niket betrayed her even though it was obvious.

Completely justified. Niket was her only childhood friend who had already helped her once against her father.



And MisterLB...we find something we agree on.....^_^

#39
Golden Owl

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ThePwener wrote...

Seboist wrote...
Very odd thing to say after Shepard asked about her view of Cerberus wouldn't you say? :happy:


lol


Kelly has a one track mind...:whistle:....^_^

#40
ladyvader

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HogarthHughes 3 wrote...

I lost interest in Miranda when she got nice on the Normandy, an ice queen would have been great fun.  Oh and I really didn't like how she is so perturbed by the thought of giving Cerberus the Collector Base.   She is the ruthless Cerberus cheerleader the entire game, but when it comes to preserving the technology of the enemy in order to learn from it we've gone too far?   Her loyalty to Cerberus and TIM fall apart because of minor moral qualms about preserving technology that was used to kill innocents?  (which is nothing compared to other things Cerberus has done, not even counting rogue Cells like Pragia)

Still, at the very least she isn't a goody-two-shoes.  Miranda is okay, I would have much more respect for her though if she stuck to her guns better and weren't so quick to get chummy with Shepard.  Not that I have a problem with characters being amicable, but given her and Shepards interactions in the shuttle and the Cerberus base I was hoping there could be a rivalry of sorts brewing.  Instead she is very friendly and quickly opens up about her self-esteem/daddy issues.

I like how even an un-loyal Miranda will tell TIM to stuff it when it comes to the base.  I was actually shocked to see that.  

I don't trust Miranda.  I didn't like how she was a Cerberus apologist for most of the game then tells TIM to stuff it at the end.  This after reaming Joker a new one when the collectors took the crew.  She was wayyyyy out of line.  

TIM will use Oriana to get Miranda back into the fold.  Count on it.  Just like he will most like use Liara against Shepard.

#41
Collider

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Here's the problem with Miranda:
1. When you talk to her on Larazus Station, she's the typical Ice Queen who's default reaction to the player is "I'm not impressed by you and you don't seem worthy talking to."
2. When you go on the Normandy, she suddenly wants to talk and tell you her life story.

So the biggest problem is that Miranda is inconsistent. They seemed to have all sorts of ideas for her and tried to do them all and failed at doing any of them well.

Thus it's hard to get "attached" to Miranda.

That said, I get annoyed sometimes at the suggestion that Miranda is a "****" or some sort. Especially by those who condone Jack's actions.

#42
ThePwener

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Collider wrote...

Here's the problem with Miranda:
1. When you talk to her on Larazus Station, she's the typical Ice Queen who's default reaction to the player is "I'm not impressed by you and you don't seem worthy talking to."
2. When you go on the Normandy, she suddenly wants to talk and tell you her life story.

So the biggest problem is that Miranda is inconsistent. They seemed to have all sorts of ideas for her and tried to do them all and failed at doing any of them well.

Thus it's hard to get "attached" to Miranda.

That said, I get annoyed sometimes at the suggestion that Miranda is a "****" or some sort. Especially by those who condone Jack's actions.


I completaly agree. And those Jack fans are idiots.

#43
ThePwener

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Golden Owl wrote...
Kelly has a one track mind...:whistle:....^_^


So much that every erotic ME fanfic I've read has at least one scene with her. That's quite something.....

#44
BioFan (Official)

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i think she warms up to you towards the end if your nice to her, and have high paragon/renagade for her and Jack's arguement

#45
Golden Owl

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ThePwener wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...
Kelly has a one track mind...:whistle:....^_^


So much that every erotic ME fanfic I've read has at least one scene with her. That's quite something.....


Really?....I must read them....:D

#46
Guest_Saphra Deden_*

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I actually don't think Miranda's characterization is all that inconsistent. When you first talk to her on the Normandy she's plenty icy, so is Shepard in fact.

Its Jacob who strikes me as gradually getting decidedly less friendly, albeit in most cases I think it's justified.

#47
Golden Owl

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Ericander77 wrote...

i think she warms up to you towards the end if your nice to her, and have high paragon/renagade for her and Jack's arguement


She does quite a lot...as I mentioned, despite how I felt about her, I never renegade her...have even romanced her a couple of times out of curiousity....am very aware of her reactions to paragon...no idea about how she responds to renegade Shep though.

#48
Golden Owl

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Saphra Deden wrote...

I actually don't think Miranda's characterization is all that inconsistent. When you first talk to her on the Normandy she's plenty icy, so is Shepard in fact.

Its Jacob who strikes me as gradually getting decidedly less friendly, albeit in most cases I think it's justified.


This is using renegade dialog? Paragon Shep is a bit of a try hard with Miranda in the dialog just before Freedoms Progress...but Miranda's quite friendly with paragon dialog on the Normandy from get go.

Modifié par Golden Owl, 12 août 2011 - 04:54 .


#49
Seboist

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Golden Owl wrote...

Ericander77 wrote...

i think she warms up to you towards the end if your nice to her, and have high paragon/renagade for her and Jack's arguement


She does quite a lot...as I mentioned, despite how I felt about her, I never renegade her...have even romanced her a couple of times out of curiousity....am very aware of her reactions to paragon...no idea about how she responds to renegade Shep though.


Jack actually shows more respect to Renegade Shepard in a lot of instances. She doesn't call Renegade Shepard a "vagina" when s/he first confronts her at the end of her recruitment mission.

#50
MisterJB

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ladyvader wrote...
This after reaming Joker a new one when the collectors took the crew.  She was wayyyyy out of line.  

The way I see it, it shows that Miranda looks past deficiencies and holds everyone to the same standard. Joker was in charge of the ship. It's true there was little he could have done against Collectors but the Normandy was still his responsability. And now, many people could be dead because of him.
I think, above all, it was a show of respect.

Modifié par MisterJB, 12 août 2011 - 04:56 .