146 réponses à ce sujet

[Blooddrunk1004]

That's great because when she said she would like to put control chip in my brain, i disliked her and wanted to push her out of airlock ever since then. She ended up in the swarm and my Shepard just stood there and laugh.

Modifié par Blooddrunk1004, 12 août 2011 - 05:35 .

[kumquats]

A good thing is I don't respect the opinions of people who come to threads just to write down some provocations, without adding anything useful to the discussion. Take this, however you like.

Miranda seems very Queen Icy, but she is very insecure at the same time. I think it's a good portrayel of what women feel like.
Everyone expects them to be perfect, Miranda's father created her to be perfect, but sometimes it's just to much pressure.

The second best thing about Miranda is, that she has a strong opinion. I highly respect people who have a different view and can express that.
Of course my Shepards don't like Miranda. My Sole Survivor dislikes her strong loyality to Cerberus, but in ME3 they could be friends.
And my female Shepard dislikes her, because my Renegade wants obedience and Miranda will never bow to that.

I like that they created a character I can dislike with my Shepards. I don't want every Squadi to 100% agree with them.

[Collider]

People need to stop taking these characters so seriously, yo.

When you start insulting each other about what character you like or dislike, it's time to stop.

[Golden Owl]

MisterJB wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...
And MisterLB...we find something we agree on.....

I can find some details in the OP that we agree on.  It's good to see someone who, despite not being a Miranda fan, understands the way Miranda views herself and appreciates the tragic side of her gifts. The usual response is to simply handwave it.

You most certainly could........I was more so referring to earlier clashes you and I have experienced over Miri.......Sadly I have the memory of a damned elephant at times....

[Golden Owl]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

This is using renegade dialog? Paragon Shep is a bit of a try hard with Miranda in the dialog just before Freedoms Progress...but Miranda's quite friendly with paragon dialog on the Normandy from get go.

Might depend on your dialogue choices, yes.

Albeit I don't think that makes her inconsistent either. She's diplomatic once she's on the Normandy. Make sense that she'd be professional once the mission is set in stone and she knows she's there for the long haul.

To elaborate more on Jacob though...

He actually does stay friendly, it's just the way he closes off topics he doesn't want to talk about is a bit off-putting. He still is plenty casual though and wants to spill drinks on the Citadel. They should have just rewrote a couple of his "I don't have any new conversation topics right now" dialogue.

Yes, agreed, that a sh*tty line from Jacob....makes him sound like a d*ck...hope BW works on those kinds of lines in ME3

[Sepewrath]

People who have a problem with that line Jacob has when there are no conversations, I can only think are way too soft skinned.

[Golden Owl]

Sepewrath wrote...

People who have a problem with that line Jacob has when there are no conversations, I can only think are way too soft skinned.

It just makes his responses inconsistent...."I enjoyed this talk Shep, lets do it again sometime"...to..."Already!?...I'm not big on forcing these talks"....Inconsistant.

[Sepewrath]

There's nothing inconsistent about that, he enjoys having talks with you that are meaningful and not about the weather or that sports team you like. That's what he means when he said he doesn't want to force conversations, he doesn't want to have some chat about nothing.

[Golden Owl]

Sepewrath wrote...

There's nothing inconsistent about that, he enjoys having talks with you that are meaningful and not about the weather or that sports team you like. That's what he means when he said he doesn't want to force conversations, he doesn't want to have some chat about nothing.

Neither do I...but it's a bit jarring and a kind of "what the h*ll?" when you are first learning the parameters of an NPC's dialog....Now I just time it for full dialog, but was jarring when still working that one out.

[MaskedAffection]

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...

That's great because when she said she would like to put control chip in my brain, i disliked her and wanted to push her out of airlock ever since then. She ended up in the swarm and my Shepard just stood there and laugh.

I never got over that either! Who the hell was she to say that right to shep's face. She's alive in my playthrough but, if she jumps back in bed with TIM for ME3, I won't regret killing her.

[Spanky Magoo]

Shes my favorite character of the me games. She meshes really well with my personality and is a really well written character on the other hand im not fond of tali and I never really liked ash or kaiden dont know why, My friends are always on my case when we talk about mass effect "What you dont like Tali?", "But you like MIRANDA?!!" I dont even get into it any more.

[Made Nightwing]

Quole wrote...

Melrache wrote...

Mad? Hahah, dont think too highly of yourself, kid

I think ur mad.

He ain't mad....and I still ain't mad

[Bugsie]

It’s interesting to me that the two female characters I have come to care for the most, also receive the most hate within the ME fandom.

To a certain extent all the characters within the ME setting lose a little in consistency. But I would say that is the unfortunate downside to such an expansive setting with a wide range of characters.

To address the OP’s remarks, for myself I was originally confused as to how I was supposed to react to Miranda, she was cold yet obviously capable. Playing as femShep I felt that distance – but I also felt a spark of friendship and admiration for her, so I seriously wanted to break down that barrier and I found that I don’t need her to drop all formality with me in order to achieve this. I don't see her as ruthless or heartless, I think Miranda distances herself socially because, she sees she has a job to do and ‘fraternising’ is likely to interfere with that.

Also I can see her perceived ‘coldness’ comes from a lifetime of protecting herself emotionally. And despite what has been said earlier, she does care for individuals, Jacob being one, but she knows that opening up and trusting those individuals emotionally could also mean betrayal (Niket).

The only disappointment I feel with Miranda's characterisation is that I couldn’t get as close to her without going down a romance path, but I feel that way about a lot of the ME2 characters.

[Goneaviking]

Golden Owl wrote...

Youknow wrote...

Well to be fair, characters are generally based off of real people, so if you don't like certain traits in real life, it's only natural that you'd dislike the same traits displayed by someone else... Whether the being in question is real or not.

I for one still don't particularly care for Miranda. The line where she basically says "Niket made me kill him, but I didn't want to" if you don't paragon interrupt her, is enough to make me hate her (that was the final straw for me). I've known far too many people that have done things like this. It was your choice, don't make it out to be the other person's fault because you wronged them. I mean, she reminds me so much of a person I know that I dislike so much... Largely because their "Niket made me do it" had my life at stake, but I guess that I didn't matter enough. Just the fact that THEY were hurt. And it wasn't like anything bad would have happened to them if they hadn't done what they did, but no... Betrayal of trust is far more fun.

It's nice to get down to the root of your problems though, it might not be nearly as irrational in the future.

Thank you Youknow...yes, exactly.

I have always triggered Miranda at that point, I didn't know she says that and I agree with you view, the "made me do it" line, I'm still trying to teach my youngest daughter that reasoning doesn't wash.

That's a valuable lesson to learn in life, it's just a pity that the excuse plays so well in politics.
.
For my part it's Kaidan who's always annoyed me. I think it's the voice more than anything, not enough to make me hate the character or even not appreciate he's perspective in-game but enough that he's generally not going to make it through Vermire in my games.

Modifié par Goneaviking, 12 août 2011 - 07:50 .

[jlb524]

Collider wrote...

People need to stop taking these characters so seriously, yo.

When you start insulting each other about what character you like or dislike, it's time to stop.

Character love/hate is srs bsns don't you know?

[Ieldra]

HogarthHughes 3 wrote...
 Miranda is okay, I would have much more respect for her though if she stuck to her guns better and weren't so quick to get chummy with Shepard.  Not that I have a problem with characters being amicable, but given her and Shepards interactions in the shuttle and the Cerberus base I was hoping there could be a rivalry of sorts brewing.  Instead she is very friendly and quickly opens up about her self-esteem/daddy issues.

I put that "fast opening up" down to storytelling necessity and just pretend that a longer time passes. As for sticking to her guns, she has her out-of-character moment at the Collector base, that's for sure.

BTW, you can get a hint of rivalry if you choose the Renegade responses in the talks with her after her loyalty mission, particulary in the romance scene that ends with the kiss. Miranda is much more confident there. Though she still says "All I can take credit for are my mistakes", she also says "Remember, I put you back together, and I do damn good work". I also like the banter where Shepard (jokingly) accuses her of jealousy, and she replies with "Don't be absurd." and "It's not a competition". Ironically, you get a competitive vibe from her in that scene.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 12 août 2011 - 08:06 .

[Homebound]

I think Miranda's just mad cuz she cant haz babies.

[Ieldra]

Golden Owl wrote...
I'm talking about Miranda expanding her circle of empathy beyond she and her close relation....

She does care about the crew, you know? Perhaps you recall how she helps relocate a crew member's family when there was some suspicion theor home planet would be hit by the Collectors. 

Apart from that, I like exactly that she is *not* openly and widely empathic. I love the more detached personality she shows when things are not personal. I love her "ice queen" persona. I wish she had carried more of that over to the later parts of the game. 

[Seboist]

jlb524 wrote...

Collider wrote...

People need to stop taking these characters so seriously, yo.

When you start insulting each other about what character you like or dislike, it's time to stop.

Character love/hate is srs bsns don't you know?

I'm always ready to challenge someone to a duel over their talking smack about TIM.

[Ieldra]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...
Oriana is her sister...I'm talking about Miranda expanding her circle of empathy beyond she and her close relation....c'mon Saphra, you know enough about how I think to know that doesn't wash with me.

I can see where you are coming from here, but I think you are being a little hard on her. You might be mistaking her emotional distance as an indication that she just doesn't care.

She seems to care about Jacob atter all, forwarding the information on his father to give him a chance at closure. Her hurt when Jacob gets mad at her is evident that whatever the result, her intentions were good.

I don't think it's fair to blame her for not becoming too attached to strangers. At the end of the day somebody has to be the voice of logic and reason, and that's her.

This, absolutely!

Regarding the husks that were brought up, I don't think that applies at all. There is no indication that Cerberus ever impaled anybody to create them. The mission concerning them in ME1 is very unclear as to exactly what happened and exactly what Cerberus' involvement was.

Yes. Miranda says they were already dead. Now that may have been a lie told to her by TIM, but she has no reason to disbelieve it. Nor, actually, have we got any indication that it is not possible to create husks from dead bodies. The whole "expendable shock troops" scenario would make zero sense in the first place if you had to kill a human for every husk. If dead Saren can get animated through synthetic implants, it's plausible that the very limited consciousness displayed by husks could be created by implanting synthetics in dead bodies.

[HogarthHughes 3]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I put that "fast opening up" down to storytelling necessity and just pretend that a longer time passes. As for sticking to her guns, she has her out-of-character moment at the Collector base, that's for sure.

BTW, you can get a hint of rivalry if you choose the Renegade responses in the talks with her after her loyalty mission, particulary in the romance scene that ends with the kiss. Miranda is much more confident there. Though she still says "All I can take credit for are my mistakes", she also says "Remember, I put you back together, and I do damn good work". I also like the banter where Shepard (jokingly) accuses her of jealousy, and she replies with "Don't be absurd." and "It's not a competition". Ironically, you get a competitive vibe from her in that scene.

Most of the relationships do tend to develop artificially fast, it would be hypocritical of me to judge Miranda harshly for a sudden change when I don't do the same for other characters.  (e.g. Liara)  I suspect that part of my lack of interest in Miranda as a character comes from me being a dissatisfied baby over how she turned out (against what I was expecting).  I didn't want another vulnerable woman (or man), and the standoffish Miranda that said she would have preferred to have a control chip implanted in Shepard provided an amusing (but short) conversation.  Then once on the Normandy Miranda is surprisingly warm, hell she's more receptive to informal conversation than Jacob is.  If Miranda had just shared a bit of Jacobs attitude (at least in the first conversation aboard the Normandy) it would have been a much better transition.

Although, she is one of the better squadmates on missions.  "The scare was a nice touch" followed by Shepard "I thought so" is my favorite among the possible lines after being a jerk to that bleeding Blue Suns mercenary on Korlus.  "Figuratively speaking" after kiiling Niket is a good one too.

Still her waffling over the Collector Base decision is weak sauce.  That has hurt my opinion of her more than anything else (don't hate her or anything like that, just don't really like her either), of course I could try writing it off as OOC.  The "Cerberus Loyalist" who loses faith in TIM over...something which should be a no brainer for someone like her (ends justify the means, has faith in Cerberus). 

Unless she lost faith in Cerberus over the course of the game?  I could see how something like Pragia could do that, but it is made abundantly clear that that Cell didn't have the approval of TIM.  TIM knowingly sending Shepard into a trap is completely understandable (though still hard to swallow if you don't have faith in TIM, which Miranda supposedly does).  The only other thing TIM does in ME2 that could be considered questionable is luring the Collectors to Horizon, but to me that isn't even morally ambiguous.  If the Collectors are going to hit a colony and abuct innocent people regardless of what you do, how is it a bad thing to lure them to one that you are keeping an eye on?  (Not to mention one which happens to have defensive structures being built, and possibly some soldiers stationed there as well)

[Seboist]

Another oddity about Miranda's character is that the shadow broker dossier describes her as "obsessed with human dominance" but she didn't come off like that at all. She comes off as more moderate than the SR-1 crew regarding aliens.