150 réponses à ce sujet

[KingDan97]

United_Strafes wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

United_Strafes wrote...
more to why are they just as expensive through the parent companies own online distribution site than it more than often is on other sites like D2D or Steam

Execpt I just proved this wasn't the case.

and if your trying to argue which has the better value Origin or Steam get ready to get laughed off the page.

Being on Steam doesn't automatically make it a better value.

Um ya, when I can buy Fallout New Vegas and all the DLC for $25 because of a Steam sale it definately automatically makes it a better value......

You mean a sale that celebrated an event? That EA wasn't at, and has no stock in? You're surprised that they didn't have a sale for that? I bet if Zenimax built a digital distribution system they'd have a sale for it as well, just like Blizzard will likely have a Blizzcon sale for Battle.net, or how every single store ON THE PLANET lowers prices around the holiday season. Origin launched in June, what events have happened since June that should warrant any kind of sale on Origin?

Modifié par KingDan97, 12 août 2011 - 08:20 .

[Massadonious1]

Doesn't really count if it's only on sale for a limited period of time.

And by the looks of the Sims 3 Orign price, they're not really afraid of running promos either.

Or maybe 5% isn't worthy of religious fanatacism.

Modifié par Massadonious1, 12 août 2011 - 08:21 .

[KingDan97]

Massadonious1 wrote...

Doesn't really count if it's only on sale for a limited period of time.

Of course it does, because she doesn't like EA and any point is valid unless it's in EA's defense.

[Bogsnot1]

towerstone wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

SNascimento wrote...
Well, good thing they are making faster computers then!

Thats the exact type of thinking that lead to all new version of Windows being more bloated than the previous version.
Faster hardware should not have to make up for poor quality coding.

why not? it's cheaper to get a faster chip than to have programmers sit for another couple of months to sanitize code that would eventually do the same thing. maybe you have to spend a couple of more bucks on the hardware, but in the long run you will save that money. of course, when the programming is so sloppy that stuff starts to break it's a whole different story. and to be honest, i already have origin installed, and i don't experience any performance issues on my modest machine

Heres a car analogy:
Its cheaper for you to go out and buy a 4x4 vehicle rather than the Dept of Transport go along and buy graders, bulldozers, cement trucks, purchase resources and hire staff to build a road between 2 suburbs. Sure, you will have to spend extra money on fuel and tyres, but you will save money in the long run because you will be taxed less because that road doesnt exist.

[Dariuszp]

Massadonious1 wrote...

Dariuszp wrote...
Problem is that in Origin games are 120% - 150% of retail version. Where they don't need to distribute it (transport), store it (warehouses) and sell it (shop additional fee). Steam don't have problem with that. And they have loooooooooooooooooooot of promotions where you can get a game for 25% - 75% or retail price.
So what you are saying is not 100% true.

Sims 3 on Steam: $39.99

http://store.steampo....com/app/47890/

Sims 3 on Origin: $39.99, currently at a promo price of $34.99

http://store.origin....uctID=105153500

Perhaps a bit of research would of been in order.

Bit of reading would be in order in your case. PL version of EA Origin.

Sims 3 on Origin - 149 PLN. It's around 51$ (your URL)
Sims 3 in one of the popular online shop - 98 PLN. It's around 33$ (http://www.3kropki.p.../the_sims_3.php)

Mass Effect 3 on Origin - 219 PLN. It's around 75$.
Mass Effect on the same shop - 129 PLN. It's around [/b]44$.

 Your 35$ - 40$ for Sims is still bit more than 33$ in normal store
Any more questions or "research" ?

[Massadonious1]

Dariuszp wrote...
Bit of reading would be in order in your case. PL version of EA Origin.

I wasn't talking about the "PL" version, was I?

Modifié par Massadonious1, 12 août 2011 - 08:34 .

[KingDan97]

Dariuszp wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

Dariuszp wrote...
Problem is that in Origin games are 120% - 150% of retail version. Where they don't need to distribute it (transport), store it (warehouses) and sell it (shop additional fee). Steam don't have problem with that. And they have loooooooooooooooooooot of promotions where you can get a game for 25% - 75% or retail price.
So what you are saying is not 100% true.

Sims 3 on Steam: $39.99

http://store.steampo....com/app/47890/

Sims 3 on Origin: $39.99, currently at a promo price of $34.99

http://store.origin....uctID=105153500

Perhaps a bit of research would of been in order.

Bit of reading would be in order in your case. PL version of EA Origin.

Sims 3 on Origin - 149 PLN. It's around 51$ (your URL)
Sims 3 in one of the popular online shop - 98 PLN. It's around 33$ (http://www.3kropki.p.../the_sims_3.php)

Mass Effect 3 on Origin - 219 PLN. It's around 75$.
Mass Effect on the same shop - 129 PLN. It's around [/b]44$.

 Your 35$ - 40$ for Sims is still bit more than 33$ in normal store
Any more questions or "research" ?

I feel that my point(that you either neglected to read, or decided not to respond to) is still entirely valid:
"As for digital prices being at retail, that is the fault of consumers not taking a stand, not any company for either:
A) Taking a loss in profits as other retailers demand an equivalent MSRP, essentially nullifying any and all benefits of taking the retail cut out at your own store.
or
B)Tell them to stuff it and start actually restricting where you can pick up games.


As for regulation of prices, digital distribution is still a fledgling market, and it's going to take time to set up an easy system to set up market standards for when prices drop. That doesn't mean the market can't exist until that system gets set up because it's going to take a perid of active fluctuation to get it right."

[United_Strafes]

KingDan97 wrote...

United_Strafes wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

United_Strafes wrote...
more to why are they just as expensive through the parent companies own online distribution site than it more than often is on other sites like D2D or Steam

Execpt I just proved this wasn't the case.

and if your trying to argue which has the better value Origin or Steam get ready to get laughed off the page.

Being on Steam doesn't automatically make it a better value.

Um ya, when I can buy Fallout New Vegas and all the DLC for $25 because of a Steam sale it definately automatically makes it a better value......

You mean a sale that celebrated an event? That EA wasn't at, and has no stock in? You're surprised that they didn't have a sale for that? I bet if Zenimax built a digital distribution system they'd have a sale for it as well, just like Blizzard will likely have a Blizzcon sale for Battle.net, or how every single store ON THE PLANET lowers prices around the holiday season. Origin launched in June, what events have happened since June that should warrant any kind of sale on Origin?

Right over your head dude, did ya read?

Being on Steam doesn't automatically make it a better value.

So yes because it was on Steam it automatically made it a better value, do you even know what you're talking about?

or how every single store ON THE PLANET lowers prices around the holiday season

Ya every single one except 1, guess which one? If you guessed the EA store you guessed correctly......

[Dionkey]

 The main distinction between EA's and Valve's service is the fact that Origin will AUTOMATICALLY revoke your game rights for not being on in 24 months. For the sake of time, I will just copy and paste my post from the other thread:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OH YES! How could I forget in my earlier arguments? From the Origin TOS:

5. Content and Entitlement Availability

Entitlements may only be held in Accounts belonging to legal residents of countries where access to and use of Content and Entitlements is permitted. Entitlements may be purchased or acquired only from EA or an authorized retailer. EA reserves the right to refuse your request(s) to acquire Entitlements, and EA reserves the right to limit or block any request to acquire Entitlements for any reason.

We do not guarantee that any Content or Entitlement will be available at all times or at any given time or that we will continue to offer particular Content or Entitlements for any particular length of time. We reserve the right to change and update Content and Entitlements without notice to you. If you have not used your Entitlements or Account for twenty four (24) months or more and your Account has associated Entitlements, your Entitlements will expire and your Account may be cancelled for non-use. Once you have redeemed your Entitlements, that content is not returnable, exchangeable, or refundable for other Entitlements or for cash, or other goods or services. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

They can take away games that YOU paid for because you didn't log on in two years. This is such BS, I don't care about any of the excuses like "HEY IT'S YOUR FAULT FOR NOT LOGGING ON". Listen, there are people who take breaks from gaming, some of them have to (Military Service or long business travel), some of them don't have to (they simply want to take a break). But y'know something? They all have the right to play the games they paid for whenever they want. A perfect example of this is TOR. People often quit MMO's for months, even years, why should I have check up on Origin for them to maintain my access to something I paid for?

Anyone defending EA in this case is a fanboy that defends every action associated with Bioware or it's partners. Valve is being blamed becuase EA wants to make some extra money along with little loop holes to screw over the customers.

Modifié par Dionkey, 12 août 2011 - 08:42 .

[WreshmanMcGoo]

This is a joke. Personly, I like all of my games in one place, that's why I prefer Steam. I also like hard copies of massive single player games like DA and ME. The fact that I may have to install and run Origins WHILE I'm running ME3 is absurd.

I don't have the newest PC nor do I have the money for a new beast so like I really need EA bloatware taking up more resources while I'm trying to play a game that's already close to taxing out my system. I swear, between this garbage and having to possibly pay for online passes for used and even new games in the future, I actually am glad I'm gaming less and less as I get older. The future looks pretty bleak in the industry, unless you have Mommy and Daddy buying you all the latest toys/overpriced DLC/online passes/subscriptions/etc.

[Dariuszp]

Massadonious1 wrote...

Dariuszp wrote...
Bit of reading would be in order in your case. PL version of EA Origin.

I wasn't talking about the "PL" version, was I?

It's still lower.

[Bogsnot1]

This is simply the reason why you buy hardcopy, and backup all patches, DLC, and necessary crack files to another dvd.

[KingDan97]

United_Strafes wrote...

KingDan97 wrote...

United_Strafes wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

United_Strafes wrote...
more to why are they just as expensive through the parent companies own online distribution site than it more than often is on other sites like D2D or Steam

Execpt I just proved this wasn't the case.

and if your trying to argue which has the better value Origin or Steam get ready to get laughed off the page.

Being on Steam doesn't automatically make it a better value.

Um ya, when I can buy Fallout New Vegas and all the DLC for $25 because of a Steam sale it definately automatically makes it a better value......

You mean a sale that celebrated an event? That EA wasn't at, and has no stock in? You're surprised that they didn't have a sale for that? I bet if Zenimax built a digital distribution system they'd have a sale for it as well, just like Blizzard will likely have a Blizzcon sale for Battle.net, or how every single store ON THE PLANET lowers prices around the holiday season. Origin launched in June, what events have happened since June that should warrant any kind of sale on Origin?

Right over your head dude, did ya read?

Being on Steam doesn't automatically make it a better value.

So yes because it was on Steam it automatically made it a better value, do you even know what you're talking about?

or how every single store ON THE PLANET lowers prices around the holiday season

Ya every single one except 1, guess which one? If you guessed the EA store you guessed correctly......

Oh right, I forgot when Quakecon was announced as a national holiday. Origin was only relaunched in June, there have been NO MAJOR HOLIDAYS since then. Also, New Vegas and all it's DLC wasn't a better value because it was on Steam, it was a better value because it was on sale. If it was on sale on Direct 2 Drive for 25$ during Quakecon as well, it would be an equally good deal.

What likely happened was Bethesda went to Steam and made an offer of allowing them(and yes, they would need to allow it) and said, "Hey, we want to promote Quakecon, so you guys can put our games on sale, but we want a larger percentage cut for the time it's on sale because it's going to bring in a hell of a lot of business for you and we know it." If Valve had said no, then no sale would've happened. If other companies didn't ALLOW Steam to put up those sales, then that deal would've never happened, and if other companies started up their own digital distribution venues, those sales would disappear as fast as they appeared.

I'm also again bringing note to the fact that for the first 2 years of Steam's life it didn't have the kind of third party support it currently does, and it didn't have the kinds of sales it now does.

[KingDan97]

WreshmanMcGoo wrote...

This is a joke. Personly, I like all of my games in one place, that's why I prefer Steam. I also like hard copies of massive single player games like DA and ME. The fact that I may have to install and run Origins WHILE I'm running ME3 is absurd.

I don't have the newest PC nor do I have the money for a new beast so like I really need EA bloatware taking up more resources while I'm trying to play a game that's already close to taxing out my system. I swear, between this garbage and having to possibly pay for online passes for used and even new games in the future, I actually am glad I'm gaming less and less as I get older. The future looks pretty bleak in the industry, unless you have Mommy and Daddy buying you all the latest toys/overpriced DLC/online passes/subscriptions/etc.

Origin takes up less memory than Steam does. ME3 doesn't have any confirmed required attachment to Origin.

Personally, I like all my games in one place too. And they are, ON MY COMPUTER.

[United_Strafes]

WreshmanMcGoo wrote...

This is a joke. Personly, I like all of my games in one place, that's why I prefer Steam. I also like hard copies of massive single player games like DA and ME. The fact that I may have to install and run Origins WHILE I'm running ME3 is absurd.

I don't have the newest PC nor do I have the money for a new beast so like I really need EA bloatware taking up more resources while I'm trying to play a game that's already close to taxing out my system. I swear, between this garbage and having to possibly pay for online passes for used and even new games in the future, I actually am glad I'm gaming less and less as I get older. The future looks pretty bleak in the industry, unless you have Mommy and Daddy buying you all the latest toys/overpriced DLC/online passes/subscriptions/etc.

Agreed, thing is it will only get worse cause people will just sit back and accept it.

I'm fine with EA having a store I'm all for it. I'm even OK with them only doing things like digital deluxe versions exclusively through thier store, I'm not OK with having to run thier store client to play a game I just bought at Wal-Mart.

Origin was only relaunched in June

OK I'm talking about the EA store which is Origin and I assure you they were around at Christmas.....

If it was on sale on Direct 2 Drive for 25$ during Quakecon as well, it would be an equally good deal.

Good point except for one very important fact: IT WASN'T ON SALE ON D2D.

Modifié par United_Strafes, 12 août 2011 - 08:57 .

[WreshmanMcGoo]

So EA can delete downloaded games and DLC that you paid for just because you don't use their service within a certain time period? Yeah, sounds like typical EA. Ut's bad enough they're a horrible publisher that mooches off of a few good dev teams like Bioware, but then they start this garbage. If it wasn't for ME, DA, and NHL, I couldn't care less about them. Let's hear the EA fanboys defend their TOS on deleting your bought material after a certain amount of time has passed from your last login.

[Dariuszp]

KingDan97 wrote...

Dariuszp wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

Dariuszp wrote...
Problem is that in Origin games are 120% - 150% of retail version. Where they don't need to distribute it (transport), store it (warehouses) and sell it (shop additional fee). Steam don't have problem with that. And they have loooooooooooooooooooot of promotions where you can get a game for 25% - 75% or retail price.
So what you are saying is not 100% true.

Sims 3 on Steam: $39.99

http://store.steampo....com/app/47890/

Sims 3 on Origin: $39.99, currently at a promo price of $34.99

http://store.origin....uctID=105153500

Perhaps a bit of research would of been in order.

Bit of reading would be in order in your case. PL version of EA Origin.

Sims 3 on Origin - 149 PLN. It's around 51$ (your URL)
Sims 3 in one of the popular online shop - 98 PLN. It's around 33$ (http://www.3kropki.p.../the_sims_3.php)

Mass Effect 3 on Origin - 219 PLN. It's around 75$.
Mass Effect on the same shop - 129 PLN. It's around [/b]44$.

 Your 35$ - 40$ for Sims is still bit more than 33$ in normal store
Any more questions or "research" ?

I feel that my point(that you either neglected to read, or decided not to respond to) is still entirely valid:
"As for digital prices being at retail, that is the fault of consumers not taking a stand, not any company for either:
A) Taking a loss in profits as other retailers demand an equivalent MSRP, essentially nullifying any and all benefits of taking the retail cut out at your own store.
or
B)Tell them to stuff it and start actually restricting where you can pick up games.


As for regulation of prices, digital distribution is still a fledgling market, and it's going to take time to set up an easy system to set up market standards for when prices drop. That doesn't mean the market can't exist until that system gets set up because it's going to take a perid of active fluctuation to get it right."

Steam again. Loot of promotions (Arkham Asylum for 7$ ? Why not. Bioshock for 5$ ? Yeah. GTA IV for 9$ ? Again YES). Superb customer service. All in one (you can buy all dlc in one place, they provide all patches etc).
You can digital download your games. They provide backupy service. You can play offline (no need for internet connection). You can add games OUTSIDE Steam to this service. You can buy games as gift for friends etc.
And they make loot of money.
It's not like digital distribution is fledgling. Digital distribution standards are currently set by Steam service and it's great. And it's out there for years.

If you want me to use Origin. Give me a reason to do so. You must run Steam to play games on Steam but you don't need to be online and you have great service behind and access to almost every game out there. Origin have high prices. Mess with games (you must install patches manualy, just like DLC and you download them from different sites every time for each game). They are limited to EA games and whole Origin is just download manager right now.

There is no signle reason for me to use second app right now. That is my point.

[LilyasAvalon]

marshalleck wrote...

Can't say I really care. I'm getting a PC hard copy from Amazon and I'll crack the **** out of it if EA loads it up with ****ty DRM. I'm paying for the game so they can just bite me.

You better as heck share how you're doing this when you do it. No chance in a reaper space am I putting up with something similar to the Ubisoft similar.

Origins ain't 'happening', EA.

[Dionkey]

KingDan97 wrote...

Oh right, I forgot when Quakecon was announced as a national holiday. Origin was only relaunched in June, there have been NO MAJOR HOLIDAYS since then. Also, New Vegas and all it's DLC wasn't a better value because it was on Steam, it was a better value because it was on sale. If it was on sale on Direct 2 Drive for 25$ during Quakecon as well, it would be an equally good deal.

What likely happened was Bethesda went to Steam and made an offer of allowing them(and yes, they would need to allow it) and said, "Hey, we want to promote Quakecon, so you guys can put our games on sale, but we want a larger percentage cut for the time it's on sale because it's going to bring in a hell of a lot of business for you and we know it." If Valve had said no, then no sale would've happened. If other companies didn't ALLOW Steam to put up those sales, then that deal would've never happened, and if other companies started up their own digital distribution venues, those sales would disappear as fast as they appeared.

I'm also again bringing note to the fact that for the first 2 years of Steam's life it didn't have the kind of third party support it currently does, and it didn't have the kinds of sales it now does.

Actually, the huge summer sale that happened a few weeks ago is considered a major Steam Holiday.

[KingDan97]

WreshmanMcGoo wrote...

So EA can delete downloaded games and DLC that you paid for just because you don't use their service within a certain time period? Yeah, sounds like typical EA. Ut's bad enough they're a horrible publisher that mooches off of a few good dev teams like Bioware, but then they start this garbage. If it wasn't for ME, DA, and NHL, I couldn't care less about them. Let's hear the EA fanboys defend their TOS on deleting your bought material after a certain amount of time has passed from your last login.

Steam makes it clear in their subscriber agreement that they can terminate your products at any time without notice. EA doesn't act on the 24 months without use, and a big company wouldn't be doing that on a person to person basis.

Every digital retailer makes it clear that you have no legal right to their product in the agreement, and if tomorrow Valve accidentally banned your account, not VAC banned, real banned, they would have no legal obligation to reactivate it because they are in the clear since you only ever leased any of the games on your Steam account..

[KingDan97]

You know, I'm done debating this. This is exactly the kind of responses Steam got when it first launched, just replace Origin with Steam, and Steam with boxed retail copies. People saw Steam as just as ridiculous an idea because they knew they didn't actually own any of their games, and they still don't. None of the products you "buy" online are actually yours and every single distributor you've ever bought from has a clause in their agreements to ensure that you have no legal rights to anything you buy from them because they have a crack team of lawyers and most people aren't willing to fight for it, because at best you'd get your money back because of widespread publicity that might make the company look bad.

In the end, Origin exists, and if other futile efforts like MW2 and L4D2 boycotts have shown. You'll all buy the game a week after launch anyway. And if you don't, what the hell do I care? Go on thinking cable is a fad and that having an email account will allow someone to steal your identity. Because you're only proving that you're made of the same cloth of those people that fail to adapt to changing infrastructures.

Modifié par KingDan97, 12 août 2011 - 09:06 .

[WreshmanMcGoo]

Wrong. You purchase the rights to play said game, not the game itself. Therefore, since it is a right in the trans property sense, they cannot legally prohibit you from playing said game unless you violate the TOS. The TOS is a 2-way contract that both parties enter through an expressed and/or implied contract when a user purchases the game i.e. The rights to use the game. If the user doesn't violate the TOS, then it is illegal for the service and contract to be terminated.

However, in Origins, EA lays out a specific breach in the TOS by saying that if you fail to log on in 24 months then the contract is null and void. Therefore, they can legally have the right to delete content that you paid for from your account or even cancel it all together.

[WreshmanMcGoo]

The burden is on the one terminating the contract to prove that the other party violated the TOS in a court of law. I don't care what you believe goes on in TOS EA/Steam fantasy world but in the real world of common law this is how it would go down if someone legally challenged a random termination of a Steam account that was not in violation of the TOS. There may even be precedents ongoing or decided already that are lesser know, but in all probability Steam would just settle for reactivating the account if it was made in error and didn't violate the TOS to avoid the courts.

EA on the other hand with Origins has a more broad and encompassing TOS and violations of it. One of which is their right to delete your paid for content and account if you don't log on within 24 months. There is no such TOS violation or stipulation in Steam's TOS. Keep on defending the EA, there.

[Bogsnot1]

WreshmanMcGoo wrote...
Wrong. You purchase the rights to play said game, not the game itself. Therefore, since it is a right in the trans property sense, they cannot legally prohibit you from playing said game unless you violate the TOS. The TOS is a 2-way contract that both parties enter through an expressed and/or implied contract when a user purchases the game i.e. The rights to use the game. If the user doesn't violate the TOS, then it is illegal for the service and contract to be terminated. 

However, in Origins, EA lays out a specific breach in the TOS by saying that if you fail to log on in 24 months then the contract is null and void. Therefore, they can legally have the right to delete content that you paid for from your account or even cancel it all together.

Both Steam and Origins render their TOS invalid by including lines such as "reserve the right to change the TOS without notification".
A contract is an agreement for specific terms and conditions. You cannot legally agree to unknown conditions, hence the contract is invalid.
Argue as much as they like, but both contract and consumer laws are pretty clear about these things.

[WreshmanMcGoo]

Then, technically, in a court they would be the one in legal violation by wrongly advertising something that is not a TOS (implied/expressed contract) as in fact a TOS, which it is not. You could even say that it is an unfair bargaining position for one party i.e. the consumer and all of the power lie in the hands of the company, wheter it be Stean or EA. The same is true for housing and apartment leases in regards to unfair bargaining position for money offered and services rendered. It's different property, but the same exact principle.