144 réponses à ce sujet

[andy6915]

In the first game, your shields came from your armor. It was the source, and the shields were built right in. But in ME2, if your a biotic, your shield were actually biotic barriers. This has always bugged the crap out of me. What that means is that Shepard intentionally and knowingly turns off the shields in his/her suit. Reason being, if biotic Shepard has armor that is specifically based around built-in kinetic shields (kestral armor is a perfect example), but only has one shield meter, it means Shepard that Shepard is only using their own biotically made barriers and turning off the kinetic shields (which I'm not even sure is possible), or else Shepard would have either an extremely strong shield because the barrier is being combined with it, or would have 2 bars of shields.

And then, there's the factor that, how the heck does armor strengthen your self made biotic barrier? That makes absolutely no sense. It makes sense with shields, because the suit simply has stronger shielding and amplifiers, but for barriers it's just stupid. It makes sense for someone like Jack or Miranda, who have no armor anywhere on them to use barriers in place of shields, because again, no armor=no shields. But for Shepard, it's ridiculous. The only way it makes sense if if the shields boost is coming from biotic amps somehow built into the suit in place of shield generators, which I would think would have been mentioned being possible somewhere. And even then, there's no way to explain how the shield boosts you can buy and make with resources work with barriers.

This is why partially why I always give barrier to my biotic characters. That way, I can just pretend that Shepard is using the built in shields, the bar is blue instead of purple, and when I turn on a biotic barrier, it does what I said it should, which is add to the strength of the armors shields. Because otherwise, my suspension of disbelief is overstresses... That and barriers is pretty much brokenly awesome on a vanguard. By end-game, I get to over 900+ shield/barrier strength after every single charge, because of the charge's barrier boost adding to the barrier power adding to my base shield strength of the armor and research boosts.

[LGTX]

It makes sense and is pardonable if it balances/diversifies the gameplay process. Which it did in ME2.

[andy6915]

LGTX wrote...

It makes sense and is pardonable if it balances/diversifies the gameplay process. Which it did in ME2.

How does it do that? They changed what Shepard is using for shields from a story and lore stance, not gameplay. Merely changing Shepard's stat from "shields" to "barrier" did nothing to change the gameplay, it just made a very bad retcon. If they had just kept the word as it was in ME1, this issue wouldn't even exist.

Modifié par andy69156915, 12 août 2011 - 01:53 .

[LGTX]

Biotic enemies had barrier overlays on healthbars, devs figured biotic Sheps could use them instead of shields as a class-specific gimmick, as well. I wasn't bothered in the slightest, sorry to hear it's such a huge retcon for you...

[habitat 67]

Would you quit using the word retcon where it doesn't fit?
Gah, it's so annoying.

It's a gameplay alteration. Those happen, otherwise we's all be still playing Qbert or something.

[Bogsnot1]

habitat 67 wrote...
Would you quit using the word retcon where it doesn't fit?
Gah, it's so annoying.

+1

[andy6915]

habitat 67 wrote...

Would you quit using the word retcon where it doesn't fit?
Gah, it's so annoying.

It's a gameplay alteration. Those happen, otherwise we's all be still playing Qbert or something.

No, it's not. It's a lore alteration. Barriers and shields are essentially the same damn thing from a gameplay perspective. How is Shepard going from always relying on the suit to provide the shields to providing it themselves with their own power not a retcon? Or for that matter, why the heck armor that boosts kinetic shields, and only those, somehow making the barrier stronger not a retcon?

Not changing the word to barrier would have avoided this entirely.

Anyway, stop bringing up gameplay, this has absolutely 0% to do with gameplay.

Modifié par andy69156915, 12 août 2011 - 02:04 .

[MELTOR13]

Is this a joke topic? are you seriously whining about this? Every day I come to these forums a lose a little bit of faith in humanity. 

[Someone With Mass]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

habitat 67 wrote...
Would you quit using the word retcon where it doesn't fit?
Gah, it's so annoying.

+1

+2

The people I've seen on this forum that actually know what "retcon" means are so few, I could probably count them on one hand.

[Veex]

I'm assuming what this boils down to is, you'd like both shields and kenetic barriers to be functional for biotics?

[Someone With Mass]

andy69156915 wrote...

Anyway, stop bringing up gameplay, this has absolutely 0% to do with gameplay.

Yes it does.

Some enemies have barriers, which aren't receptive to the kinetic barriers' weaknesses, like Overload or Disruptor ammo.

They have their own set of weaknesses, like Warp, Warp ammo and Reave, and they're mostly used by organics, while kinetic barriers can be used by synthetics as well.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 12 août 2011 - 02:15 .

[LexXxich]

I tell you what. ME2 remade a person after re-entry from orbit and smacking it into the ground. It clear that whoever was in charge of it did not care about internal scientific consistency.

[andy6915]

retcon
v. to retroactively revise (a plot, storyline, character, event, history, etc.), usu. by reinterpreting past events, or by theorizing how the present would be different if past events had not happened or had happened differently.

They made Shepard go to using barriers instead of shields with no explanation, no details, no nothing, as if biotic Shepard had always done so and it was normal for Shepard. It sounds to me like none of you know what a retcon is.

And even if not a retcon, it's still something that makes absolutely no sense. There, that sounds much better then saying it was retconned. Face it, this is on the same level as thermal clips and there being clips all over a world from 10 years before people even started using them. Jeez, I didn't think me mentioning something that bugs me with make people this angry. Overreaction much?

Someone With Mass wrote...
Yes it does.

Some enemies have barriers, which aren't receptive to the kinetic barriers' weaknesses, like Overload or Disruptor ammo.

They
have their own set of weaknesses, like Warp, Warp ammo and Reave, and
they're mostly used by organics, while kinetic barriers can be used by
synthetics as well.

I actually did aknowledge that it makes sense for characters (and enemies) that aren't Shepard. But when you're wearing armor talking about how it works by micro shield emmiters being how the armor provides shielding, and Shepard is still using barriers, it stops making sense. Speaking of which, I have noticed barriers having separate weaknesses... But only with enemies. My shields seem to not take any difference damage by the same attacks between my soldier and vanguard.

Modifié par andy69156915, 12 août 2011 - 02:23 .

[didymos1120]

andy69156915 wrote...

No, it's not. It's a lore alteration.

Actually, no, it isn't.  The lore doesn't acknowledge the distinction at all.  Even Shep doesn't.  It's still "Lost shields!"
The only stuff that does mention it are weapon/power descriptions, and that's gameplay info about resistances: X is good against shields.  Y is good against biotic barriers. Z effective against armor.   Also notice that Miranda, a biotic, has shields. Then there's Grunt who has only armor, but still has dialogue about shields.

[andy6915]

didymos1120 wrote...

Actually, no, it isn't.  The lore doesn't acknowledge the distinction at all.  Even Shep doesn't.  It's still "Lost shields!" The only stuff that does mention it are weapon/power descriptions, and that's gameplay info
about resistances: X is good against shields. Y is good against biotic barriers. Z effective against armor.   Also notice that Miranda, a biotic, has shields. Then there's Grunt who has only armor, but still has dialogue about shields.

Wow... It's even worse then I realized. Game contradicts itself non-stop it seems. Apparently, the lore gets worse with each game. First it starts with ammo thermal clips, and only gets worse from there.

Modifié par andy69156915, 12 août 2011 - 02:26 .

[MysteryNotes]

LexXxich wrote...

I tell you what. ME2 remade a person after re-entry from orbit and smacking it into the ground. It clear that whoever was in charge of it did not care about internal scientific consistency.

I don't think the planet Shepard crashed on had an atmosphere so there wouldn't be a burn up on re-entry(Correct me if i'm wrong please).

[LGTX]

Gameplay sacrifices lore in every game deep enough, it's nothing new or exclusive to ME.

[Someone With Mass]

andy69156915 wrote...
They made Shepard go to using barriers instead of shields with no explanation, no details, no nothing, as if biotic Shepard had always done so and it was normal for Shepard. It sounds to me like none of you know what a retcon is.

That does not make it a retcon, since it doesn't have an explanation, beyond a biotic's ability to create their own barriers, which doesn't clash with a biotic Shepard's abilities at all.

I think it's more of a gameplay aspect, since it'd be a little dickish to make biotic barriers weak to Warp, since it not only damages you, it also staggers you for a brief moment. If the barrier/shields/whatever went down after one hit from a Warp and it makes Shepard do that staggering animation at the same time, people wouldn't be so happy about it.

Not to mention that it'd be boring if biotics behaved according to the lore, where they can only fire off like three tricks per battle or so.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 12 août 2011 - 02:30 .

[bleetman]

Because protective barriers built with technology and science are for boring people. Projected energy emitters? Pah. How mundane. Anyone can do that. I'm going to stop bullets with my mind.

Shrug. I'd happen to agree with some of what you say, but it's not something I'd considered as being a big deal. Heck, biotics are supposedly only really able to pull one particularly flashy move every thirty seconds or so and only for relatively short periods, but that never seemed to crop up either. Some things just get hand waved like that, which is neither unexpected nor unforgivable.

Modifié par bleetman, 12 août 2011 - 02:28 .

[andy6915]

MysteryNotes wrote...

LexXxich wrote...

I tell you what. ME2 remade a person after re-entry from orbit and smacking it into the ground. It clear that whoever was in charge of it did not care about internal scientific consistency.

I don't think the planet Shepard crashed on had an atmosphere so there wouldn't be a burn up on re-entry(Correct me if i'm wrong please).

I'll correct you. If you look carefully, you can see Shepard starting to catch fire when he/she enters the gravitational pull, and if you turn the music and voicees off, you can even hear the flames as Shepard enters the atmosphere.

[Someone With Mass]

andy69156915 wrote...
Wow... It's even worse then I realized. Game contradicts itself non-stop it seems. Apparently, the lore gets worse with each game. First it starts with ammo thermal clips, and only gets worse from there.

If you're honestly implying that thermal clips were a retcon, we can might as well close this thread now, because they aren't.

[habitat 67]

1. make whine thread for something not deserving of whining.
2. defend with faulty logic.
3. insult forum members who have called you out.

[didymos1120]

andy69156915 wrote...

And even if not a retcon, it's still something that makes absolutely no sense.

Lots of gameplay elements make no sense in relation to the lore, and this has always been the case.

A few from ME1:  Remember Immunity?  Overkill?  Marksman?  How about Frictionless Materials X, which allowed you to make a weapon that was impossible to overheat?  Why could everyone ignore environmental hazards if just one of them was wearing Devlon armor?  Why is the Normandy bigger on the inside?

Others in ME2:  How the hell does Shep drink through the helmet in those single-piece armors?  How do people recognize him/her on sight in those armors?  How does a class skill make you more persuasive anyway?  How does a helmet (and an ugly one at that) do that just by having a really nice speaker system? Reave?  Dominate? How do they work?

Modifié par didymos1120, 12 août 2011 - 02:41 .

[andy6915]

Someone With Mass wrote...
If you're honestly implying that thermal clips were a retcon, we can might as well close this thread now, because they aren't.

Clips weren't used until after Shepard's death. So please explain how there are thermal clips all over the planet the Gernsback (Jacob's loyalty mission) crashed on, the crash happening 10 years before ME2. You know, without calling retcon.

habitat 67 wrote...

1. make whine thread for something not deserving of whining.
2. defend with faulty logic.
3. insult forum members who have called you out.

Even if you're right about the first 2 (I don't think you are), I haven't insulted one person. I did say that I'm not sure you know what retcon means, which is hardly an insult.

didymos1120 wrote...
Lots of gameplay elements make no sense in relation to the lore, and this has always been the case.

A
few from ME1:  Remember Immunity?  Overkill?  Marksman?  How about
Frictionless Materials X, which allowed you to make a weapon that was impossible to
overheat?  Why could everyone ignore environmental hazards if just one
of them was wearing Devlon armor?  Why is the Normandy bigger on the
inside?

Others in ME2:  How the hell does Shep drink through the
helmet in those single-piece armors?  How do people recognize him/her
on sight?  How does a class skill make you more persuasive anyway?  How
does a helmet (and an ugly one at that) do that just by having a really nice speaker system? Reave?  Dominate? How do they work?

True, to all of that. I guess this one is just the one that gets to me the absolute most. Something about this one... I can't just ignore it. Though, about immunity, I always thought of it as the same thing fortification is that grunt uses. You have to admit, fortification just being renamed immunity would make sense.

Modifié par andy69156915, 12 août 2011 - 02:39 .