144 réponses à ce sujet

[bleetman]

Incidentally, was there also an explanation as to why shields prevent melee attacks now? I ask out of interest, rather than "oh god this game is so full of problems".

[andy6915]

MELTOR13 wrote...
So basically you're just admitting that you're whining for no good reason. Cool.

I've used the words "bothered" and "bugged". I never said this ruined the game for me, or that it's a huge deal. Truthfully, everyone else except me in this topic are the ones that turned this little ant hill into MT Fuji. I was just a little bothered and wanted to know if anyone else was too. Instead, it turned into "in this corner, me, and in the other corner, the whole damn forum at once... Fight!". Everyone just went into flame mode.

bleetman wrote...

Incidentally, was there also an
explanation as to why shields prevent melee attacks now? I ask out of
interest, rather than "oh god this game is so full of problems".

My theory-eveything attacks outside your shield range and attack fast enough and hard enough to activate the shield.

Other theory-The shields drop so fast to melee I just pretend that I am punching through it already and never hit their shield.

I'll admit, this is the second most bugging thing to me.

Modifié par andy69156915, 12 août 2011 - 03:09 .

[Clonedzero]

andy69156915 wrote...

Again, the vast majority of inconsistencies don't bug me, because I can fan theory them away well enough to not be bothered. I mean, I kind of already do that with the shield issue. I just pretend Shepard is still using a built in shield, ignore it saying barrier, and ignore the purple color of my shield bar. But, that's not quite cutting it for me.

like i said, i almost exclusively play biotics. because, uh, having super cool space magic is awesome, not havnig it slame.

anyways. it took me FOUR playthroughs of ME2 to even notice it said barriers. i though purple shield bars were normal for all classes. until i saw a soldier gameplay video on youtube and wondered "huh, why is his bar blue?" lol.

its a extremely insignificant thing that is never mentioned in the game. the only difference is the color of the bar and the word on the character screen. everything else is completely the same.

this is by far the most petty complaint ive seen about the game and ive seen some pretty petty complaints lol.

[Thrombin]

My take is that the Biotics replace the power source for the shields but still use the circuitry in the armour to implement them.

While a biotic could use the suit batteries he can power it himself with minimal effort so might as well save the ship some components

[LadyJaneGrey]

LexXxich wrote...

I tell you what. ME2 remade a person after re-entry from orbit and smacking it into the ground. It clear that whoever was in charge of it did not care about internal scientific consistency.

+1 

[andy6915]

Clonedzero wrote...
this is by far the most petty complaint ive seen about the game and ive seen some pretty petty complaints lol.

It is, and I never tried to say it wasn't. It was a irritating thing that rubbed me the wrong way, I wanted opinion on if others felt the same, and I gave my explanation of why it rubbed me the wrong way.

This topic was an ant hill that everyone else turned into a mountain.

Modifié par andy69156915, 12 août 2011 - 03:12 .

[RocketManSR2]

Apparently having a layer of protection taken away is a minor complaint.

[Clonedzero]

RocketManSR2 wrote...

Apparently having a layer of protection taken away is a minor complaint.

sigh......<_<

[andy6915]

Clonedzero wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

Apparently having a layer of protection taken away is a minor complaint.

sigh......<_<

We do have a point on that.

[Darkelefantos1]

It's NOT a retcon. It's either faulty ingame logic, gameplay aspect, or both. For this to make sense at all, there'd have to be biotic barrier and shield on 1 person. Then I'd assume that (I hope you'd agree with this, otherwise major unbalance) all non-biotics get armor as a second defense method.

3 bars of health/protection + abilities to fortify, that would make the game too easy. It's gameplay, and somebody must have figured that a biotic barrier makes more sense than a shield. No matter, no retcon, it's just the least sensible solution for the protection-difficulty-issue any Dev team comes across.

[Clonedzero]

well in theory. a shield IS a barrier.
it doesnt say the biotic users "barriers" are biotic barriers.
they could just be calling it different, and its purple cus its a different brand.

its like people who call soda, pop.

semantics.

you've been logic'd son!

[SpockLives]

1. The issue of barriers for biotics and shields for non-biotics is so annoying because it was so easy for Bioware to avoid. Shepard and squad's biotic barriers function exactly the same as non-biotic Shepard and squad's shields. "Shield upgrades" inexplicably boost barriers. There was no gameplay reason whatsoever for Bioware to change the word on the screen from "shields" to "barriers" in those instances. It doesn't affect gameplay; only lore. It is a lame and pointless change to lore, but not what I'd call a retcon.

2. Thermal clips on Aeia (Gernsback planet) make perfect sense from a *gameplay* perspective. BUT it totally contradicts the *lore* of ME 1 and 2. There are perfectly sound gameplay reasons for using thermal clips on Aeia. There are no lore justifications for it, therefore it is a retcon. Or perhaps more accurately, a pathetic "hand wave." Pure laziness on Bioware's part not to write a story for a quest that both fits within the lore and works with the gameplay.

3. When discussing barriers being on top of shields, I assume andy was talking about the activated power called "Barrier" that Jacob and Shepard can cast. No one is arguing for biotic Shepard to be running around with 3 bars all the time. My guess is that andy is simply wishing the activated power "Barrier" worked the same in ME 2 as in 1. If so, I agree as this method would not affect current gameplay but would fix a gap in the lore.

Modifié par SpockLives, 12 août 2011 - 03:41 .

[Kenthen]

This isn't even an original whine thread.
I'm so disappointed.

[legion999]

RocketManSR2 wrote...

If I'm a biotic going into battle and I was told, "Oh, sorry, since you can do a barrier, you don't get shields." I would've told that idiot to go f*** himself.

You do know how unbalanced that would be right? Biotics would get barriers and shields while non biotics get shields only.

[CaolIla]

I get what they are complaining about, but I don't care that much about it. They are absolutely right that it doesn't make any sense in regards to the established "lore". Like others already pointed out: it makes sense in the context of the gameplay.
Since I just played the games and read the first book I have to assume that somehow between the story of Revelation and ME there was some invention that allowed the shields to recharge themselves, while in Revelation they had to change the power source when the shields where drained.
I hope the next game in the ME universe will play in the time period where you had to change the power source, might be a good challenge

[Zulu_DFA]

Yes, I'm bothered by this retcon too. This whole business with the "layers of protection" is not only against the lore, but a boring and retarded chorefest gameplay-wise, just like the health regen, thermal clips, universal cooldown, ammo powers and everything esle that got changed from ME1 to ME2.

But it's not changing back. A pity.

[didymos1120]

CaolIla wrote...

Since I just played the games and read the first book I have to assume that somehow between the story of Revelation and ME there was some invention that allowed the shields to recharge themselves, while in Revelation they had to change the power source when the shields where drained.

I doubt it.  Shields seem to work the same way in the other novels set in the timeframe of the games.  I imagine they just have longer-lasting power supplies nowadays.   Shield and health regen are just another gameplay mechanic.  Another example of how they aren't lore-compliant: look how quickly Jenkins eats it on Eden Prime.  You even get a "Ripped right through his shields..." line after Shep and Kaidan have just been in combat with the exact same gear and one or both have taken way more punishment.

[RocketManSR2]

legion999 wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

If I'm a biotic going into battle and I was told, "Oh, sorry, since you can do a barrier, you don't get shields." I would've told that idiot to go f*** himself.

You do know how unbalanced that would be right? Biotics would get barriers and shields while non biotics get shields only.

Sucks to be them.

[didymos1120]

legion999 wrote...

You do know how unbalanced that would be right? Biotics would get barriers and shields while non biotics get shields only.

Um, no.  Look at Miranda: she only has shields, not a barrier and not barrier+shields, and she's a biotic.  Having a barrier is just an indicator that you're more vulnerable to certain attacks, same as Grunt's armor makes him more vulnerable to somewhat different attacks.  The only lore version of a biotic barrier is, well, Barrier: a temporary thing that can't be maintained for very long (well, except in ME1 where a correctly built character could have a cooldown shorter than its duration.  Which itself was an egregious lore violation, but most don't complain about because they enjoy being overpowered).

[Russianbear0027]

As far as health regen goes, that isn't anything new, you don't remember the medical interfaces in ME1? Or the exoskeletons when you got up to level 35 or so? You can just assume the system has been improved over the two years you've been dead.

As far as the barrier thing goes, it's never really merited my attention, to be honest. I'm not sure why they changed it, but what I do know, is that having both shields and a biotic barrier on at the same time might collapse the shields, since there are a couple instances where the codex and research projects talk about multiple shields interfering with one another.

[crimzontearz]

people seemto forget Barrier is a bonus power in ME2...any class could have it really. What is upsetting is that general level enemies have 3 permanent layers and shepard is stuck with 2.

now, is this a retcon? eh it's ona gray area because technically no biotic would be able to keep a permanent barrier up for that long nor they would want to ifthey were given the option to ALSO have shields or armor.

Thermal clips ARE a retcon. According to lore the geth introduced them but the geth never used them in ME1. It also makes no sense logistically....adding on top of the fact that the Devs basically said they added thermal clips to add tension (and yet I rarely ever run out of ammo ever) BUT a simple active cooldown system ala GoW troikas would have added that without killing the lore or logic (the explanation would have been simple too)

[Xeranx]

Clonedzero wrote...

it took me like 4 ME2 playthroughs to notice that my biotics, it said "barrier" instead of shields lol.

its a gameplay gimmick to make biotics alittle different, thats all.

in ME1 howcome when you used barrier it just strengthened your shields instead of having a separate barrier strength bar, huh? shouldnt that bother you too?

I don't know about what happens on Xbox, but on PC barrier forms a solid, thin, white line around your shield meter in ME.  Barrier forms an extra layer of protection which, in terms of gameplay, is represented as strengthing of the shield because of said extra defense.  It's not a problem.

[Slayer_22]

Think about it this way, maybe Shepard is using his Biotic barriers to hold up the shields, like mixing both in one?

Modifié par Slayer_22, 12 août 2011 - 04:47 .

[andy6915]

didymos1120 wrote...
I doubt it.  Shields seem to work the same way in the other novels set in the timeframe of the games.  I imagine they just have longer-lasting power supplies nowadays.   Shield and health regen are just another gameplay mechanic.  Another example of how they aren't lore-compliant: look how quickly Jenkins eats it on Eden Prime.  You even get a "Ripped right through his shields..." line after Shep and Kaidan have just been in combat with the exact same gear and one or both have taken way more punishment.

Actually, on a new game, the enemies there can rip right through your shields too. If you take the same number of shots in the same quick time span as Jenkins, you're shields will be gone too. The difference is, to make the game fair, you don't die instantly to getting hit while unshielded like people in cutscenes do. So the lore really isn't broken there. They can and will "rip right through" your shields if you go rambo. Again, only on a character though. If your doing it on normal, new game++ with a level 60 character with colossus or predator armor... The enemies will have a snowballs chance in an oven of taking your shield down.

didymos1120 wrote...
Um, no.  Look at Miranda: she only has
shields, not a barrier and not barrier+shields, and she's a biotic. 
Having a barrier is just an indicator that you're more vulnerable to
certain attacks, same as Grunt's armor makes him more vulnerable to
somewhat different attacks.  The only lore version of a biotic barrier
is, well, Barrier: a temporary thing that can't be maintained for very
long (well, except in ME1 where a correctly built character could have
a cooldown shorter than its duration.  Which itself was an egregious
lore violation, but most don't complain about because they enjoy being
overpowered).

That's what I'm saying. Barrier the power isn't even barrier-that-is-exactly-like-a-shield. This doesn't make sense either. If you're already using a biotic barrier in place of shield, then... What the heck is barrier (power)? Is it like Shepard or Jacob overclocking their barrier strength by applying more then usual biotic power to their barrier? That's odd. It's definitely easier to do what I already do and pretend that Shepard and Jacob use actual kinetic barriers on their clothes and armor, and the only real biotic barrier they have is the one you manually turn on. Samara and Jack are the only ones that make sense to be applying an actual biotic barrier 24/7.

Actually, I just thought of a potential plot hole. Back before I played as a vanguard in ME2, I assumed it was still like ME1 where all shields were actually shields and not biotically based,it made sense when it was mentioned Liara survived the sniper in LOTSB because she had a kinetic barrier on her at all times. It made me think she was just prepared and wore a shield emitter under her clothes all the time. But now, she survives that by blocking it with an actual shield, and then goes back to barriers being her only shield when she actually joins you. Yeah, okay...

Also, about it breaking lore, ME2's barrier power works pretty much the same as in ME1. Both of them add to your shield strength, and both are only temporary, and both make an awesome biotic layer over your character (though the layer looks different in both games, and I think it looks cooloer in ME2). So I don't think it break the lore, if both games have the barrier working the same way. I mean, who's to say it takes much energy to put one up anyway?

Goodness do I hope the barrier power is in ME3. It been my absolute most used power in both games with my vanguard. In ME1, I made sure to max it, used it nonstop, got the barrier specialization with shock trooper, and made sure it was my bonus power in ME2. To have my vanguard suddendly be lacking the main, defining power of my character would be... Very painful, and very continuity breaking. It would be like soldiers being unable to use assault rifles in ME3.

Slayer_22 wrote...

Think about it this way, maybe Shepard is using his Biotic barriers to hold up the shields, like mixing both in one?

I thought of that, but then thought "then that means Shepards armor shielding in inexplicably weaker then it is for other characters". I guess you could just figure it's biotic Shepard not knowing as much about shield as other Shepards and getting a weaker shield for it (like why tech character have stronger shields for no reason, except in reverse).

Modifié par andy69156915, 12 août 2011 - 04:53 .

[Slayer_22]

Well, who said it's weaker? We're not coming from a gameplay standpoint, but from a lore standpoint. Sure the gameplay gives us numbers, but I'm sure the lore doesn't have any measurement of how strong shields are by numbers, right? So from gameplay standards, it's there for balance, but from a lore standpoint, his shields are enhanced by biotic barriers making them stronger.