744 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr. Tanner]

Chris Priestly wrote...

You people who play it.

Can I say that? No? Bad Priestly.

Have to respect the man for being honest. LOL!

[DarkPsylocke26]

Mr. Tanner wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

You people who play it.

Can I say that? No? Bad Priestly.

Have to respect the man for being honest. LOL!

That though that was funny when he wrote that a while ago.

[Double_02]

Ambassodor Udina. Hands down. I hate that guy

[ValendianKnight]

Ash and Udina. Udina makes me want to murder him every time he opens his mouth, and Ash made me tune out as soon as she mentioned god once to me. Never made her way into my party again, and won't in ME3. No thanks!

[didymos1120]

ValendianKnight wrote...

Ash and Udina. Udina makes me want to murder him every time he opens his mouth, and Ash made me tune out as soon as she mentioned god once to me.

That would explain why you don't know it's the only time she mentions it.

Never made her way into my party again, and won't in ME3. No thanks!

Lemme guess: you think Ash is a bigot too?

[JeffZero]

God...

[alex90c]

ValendianKnight wrote...

Ash and Udina. Udina makes me want to murder him every time he opens his mouth, and Ash made me tune
out as soon as she mentioned god once to me. Never made her way into my party again, and won't in ME3. No thanks!

Udina's obnoxious but you can't deny he's hilarious, cmon.

"SEND YOUR FLEET IN" *closes fist*

"Do the words 'political sh!tstorm mean anything to you, Shepard?"

And Ash ... what's wrong with her mentioning God? I'm a complete atheist but it didn't bug me in the slightest, hell I wish I could have discussed religion as a whole with her a bit more but I don't think the game allows you. Plus she's probably one of the most realistic personalities I've come across in a Bioware game, she has her own traits, quirks and flaws without going over the top in any section (so that she doesn't fall square in to an archetype like most Bioware characters).

Modifié par alex90c, 17 décembre 2011 - 08:37 .

[didymos1120]

alex90c wrote...

And Ash ... what's wrong with her mentioning God?

People pay no attention to context and content, and just treat it as a shibboleth: "ZOMG, she said 'God'.  She's a crazy Space Fundie!  Ostracize her.  She is The Other!"  Just look at how many people instantly assume she's a Christian, even though her beliefs are extremely non-specific.

[ediskrad327]

usually i would say Udina, but THIS was more annoying than any character in the game

[JeffZero]

Ash simply believes that the likelihood of a universe without some form of direction seems profoundly low to her after seeing all the wondrous and terrifying things she's seen thus far in her life. She flat-out states as much, but so many people jump the gun on it and use her to express their distaste for a religion she may or may not even have anything to do with.

[CptData]

JeffZero wrote...

Ash simply believes that the likelihood of a universe without some form of direction seems profoundly low to her after seeing all the wondrous and terrifying things she's seen thus far in her life. She flat-out states as much, but so many people jump the gun on it and use her to express their distaste for a religion she may or may not even have anything to do with.

I think it's really funny some ppl express such hate because of Ashley's religion. I mean, what's wrong with a religion? I'm an atheist, I don't believe in God or any god else. However, I don't feel offended by ppl who believe in gods. I feel offended by people trying to convert me - and Ashley doesn't. She does not mind Shepard's religion (if s/he has any) and simply follows the same rule as I do: "believe in something, just don't force it on others."

I'm fine with that.

[JeffZero]

CptData wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

Ash simply believes that the likelihood of a universe without some form of direction seems profoundly low to her after seeing all the wondrous and terrifying things she's seen thus far in her life. She flat-out states as much, but so many people jump the gun on it and use her to express their distaste for a religion she may or may not even have anything to do with.

I think it's really funny some ppl express such hate because of Ashley's religion. I mean, what's wrong with a religion? I'm an atheist, I don't believe in God or any god else. However, I don't feel offended by ppl who believe in gods. I feel offended by people trying to convert me - and Ashley doesn't. She does not mind Shepard's religion (if s/he has any) and simply follows the same rule as I do: "believe in something, just don't force it on others."

I'm fine with that.

Same here. Every word of it. I mean geez, she even says, "that doesn't bother you, does it? That I believe in God?" She isn't going within miles of trying to convert Shepard, she just wants to make sure she isn't offending anyone, and all she's even doing in the first place is expressing her beliefs in a neutral way. Nothing wrong with it in the first place.

As an atheist I wasn't remotely offended. *shrug*

[Ryzaki]

The only issue I have is with her "How could you look at all this and not believe in something." line. Very easily Ash. Just because something is vast and beautiful doesn't mean it was created on purpose.

But no I don't understand the hating just because someone's religious. Isn't Mordin kind of religious? Meh my Shep's pretty much "as long as you don't try to impose your beliefs on anyone else or try to belittle there's I really don't care."

Modifié par Ryzaki, 17 décembre 2011 - 08:58 .

[didymos1120]

JeffZero wrote...

Ash simply believes that the likelihood of a universe without some form of direction seems profoundly low to her after seeing all the wondrous and terrifying things she's seen thus far in her life. She flat-out states as much, but so many people jump the gun on it and use her to express their distaste for a religion she may or may not even have anything to do with.

Mordin does pretty much the same exact thing in ME2, and somehow, that's just fine.  You see a similar phenomenon  with her alleged "racism": other non-human characters make very similar remarks about other species (or ones far, far worse), and yet you don't see people jumping on them for it over and over and over.

[JeffZero]

didymos1120 wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

Ash simply believes that the likelihood of a universe without some form of direction seems profoundly low to her after seeing all the wondrous and terrifying things she's seen thus far in her life. She flat-out states as much, but so many people jump the gun on it and use her to express their distaste for a religion she may or may not even have anything to do with.

Mordin does pretty much the same exact thing in ME2, and somehow, that's just fine.  You see a similar phenomenon  with her alleged "racism": other non-human characters make very similar remarks about other species (or ones far, far worse), and yet you don't see people jumping on them for it over and over and over.

An astounding point, didymos. I don't think I've ever even made the connection regarding Mordin. I love that conversation with him so very much too. Huh.

[alex90c]

 

jreezy wrote...

alex90c wrote...

ValendianKnight wrote...

Ash and Udina. Udina makes me want to murder him every time he opens his mouth, and Ash made me tune
out as soon as she mentioned god once to me. Never made her way into my party again, and won't in ME3. No thanks!

Udina's obnoxious but you can't deny he's hilarious, cmon.

"SEND YOUR FLEET IN" *closes fist*

"Do the words 'political sh!tstorm mean anything to you, Shepard?"

And
Ash ... what's wrong with her mentioning God? I'm a complete atheist but it didn't bug me in the slightest, hell I wish I could have discussed religion as a whole with her a bit more but I don't think the game allows you. Plus she's probably one of the most realistic personalities I've come across in a Bioware game, she has her own
traits, quirks and flaws without going over the top in any section (so that she doesn't fall square in to an archetype like most Bioware characters).

Even grounded characters fall into some kind of archetype.

Atleast she isn't as copypaste as other characters. Wrex, Wynne and Samara fit all under the "wise person with a gazillion years life experience" category,  Tali, Merrill, Liara and Alistair fall under shy/awkward person who fall for the protag, look up to them, care for them helluva lot (dunno so much about Merrill's though), Miranda, Morrigan and possibly even Isabela fall under the ice queen category where they can end up having feelings for the protag but a certain thing causes them to be conflicted about it though eventually they open up and I'm sure I could go on. Sure, Bioware execute the archetypes well and they're (mostly) characters I really like but it quite reminds me of Shakespeare - if you take a look at Aristotle's definition of a tragedy and the requirements for a play to be considered one, all of Shakespeare's tragedies are pretty much copy+paste for however many he made.

Then you get Ashley who definitely isn't shy/awkward, not an ice queen, and not an old wise person either.

Modifié par alex90c, 17 décembre 2011 - 08:59 .

[JeffZero]

Ryzaki wrote...

The only issue I have is with her "How could you look at all this and not believe in something." line. Very easily Ash. Just because something is vast and beautiful doesn't mean it was created on purpose.

But no I don't understand the hating just because someone's religious. Isn't Mordin kind of religious? Meh my Shep's pretty much "as long as you don't try to impose your beliefs on anyone else or try to belittle there's I really don't care."

Well, that line... correct me if I'm wrong (I'm going on memory here) but that line only happens if you select that Shepard, too, believes in 'God', doesn't it? I think in polite, similarly-believing company it's a bit more excusable when someone says something so potentially offensive. I mean, I know full well I don't typically say the same things re: religion at a department store in the mall as I do behind closed doors with a fellow atheist beside me. I know I'm not offending anyone in such a case, versus potentially starting a riot I've no desire to commence.

[Nashiktal]

Ryzaki wrote...

The only issue I have is with her "How could you look at all this and not believe in something." line. Very easily Ash. Just because something is vast and beautiful doesn't mean it was created on purpose.

But no I don't understand the hating just because someone's religious. Isn't Mordin kind of religious? Meh my Shep's pretty much "as long as you don't try to impose your beliefs on anyone else or try to belittle there's I really don't care."

Kinda religious? He outright prays for the dead female krogan, and admits that he became religious because of his work.

Ashley? The worst she has done in regards to anything religious is call shep a god.

[Ryzaki]

JeffZero wrote...
Well, that line... correct me if I'm wrong (I'm going on memory here) but that line only happens if you select that Shepard, too, believes in 'God', doesn't it? I think in polite, similarly-believing company it's a bit more excusable when someone says something so potentially offensive. I mean, I know full well I don't typically say the same things re: religion at a department store in the mall as I do behind closed doors with a fellow atheist beside me. I know I'm not offending anyone in such a case, versus potentially starting a riot I've no desire to commence.

Well I just played ME1 and I'm pretty sure my Shep didn't say he believed in anything. (I'm pretty sure he makes no comment about his religious beliefs period and since this was the first time I ended the conversation that way I was pleased. Pretty sure I picked the "That's what the alliance charter says." dialogue choice too). So not sure. But if it is only said if Shep professes belief in god then yeah no issue with that line.

Nashiktal wrote...

Kinda religious? He outright prays for the dead female krogan, and admits that he became religious because of his work.

Ashley? The worst she has done in regards to anything religious is call shep a god.

*shrug* like I said before them being religious doesn't bother me. If it did I'd rail on Thane, Liara and Samara too. it's only when they start pushing it on my PC that I mind and since no one in ME period does that...it's not a big deal.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 17 décembre 2011 - 09:06 .

[JeffZero]

Hmm, I may have to look it up later. Curious now.

[Nashiktal]

Ryzaki wrote...

JeffZero wrote...
Well, that line... correct me if I'm wrong (I'm going on memory here) but that line only happens if you select that Shepard, too, believes in 'God', doesn't it? I think in polite, similarly-believing company it's a bit more excusable when someone says something so potentially offensive. I mean, I know full well I don't typically say the same things re: religion at a department store in the mall as I do behind closed doors with a fellow atheist beside me. I know I'm not offending anyone in such a case, versus potentially starting a riot I've no desire to commence.

Well I just played ME1 and I'm pretty sure my Shep didn't say he believed in anything. (I'm pretty sure he makes no comment about his religious beliefs period and since this was the first time I ended the conversation that way I was pleased.). So not sure. But if it is only said if Shep professes belief in god then yeah no issue with that line.

Nashiktal wrote...

Kinda religious? He outright prays for the dead female krogan, and admits that he became religious because of his work.

Ashley? The worst she has done in regards to anything religious is call shep a god.

*shrug* like I said before them being religious doesn't bother me. If it did I'd rail on Thane, Liara and Samara too. it's only when they start pushing it on my PC that I mind and since no one in ME period does that...it's not a big deal.

Oh wasn't railing on you or anything. Just pointing out the ridiculousness of getting annoyed at ashley for mentioning religion once when mordin, thane, samara, and even legion/EDI talks more about religion than ashley did. (well in legions case he was more specific to a religion than ashley ever was.)

I am going to assume the hate comes from the assumption of what her religious beliefs are (which are never specified past "god"), and that she is a human professing belief thus making it "closer to home" so to speak and thus uncomfortable to certain individuals.

Modifié par Nashiktal, 17 décembre 2011 - 09:11 .

[CptData]

JeffZero wrote...

CptData wrote...

I think it's really funny some ppl express such hate because of Ashley's religion. I mean, what's wrong with a religion? I'm an atheist, I don't believe in God or any god else. However, I don't feel offended by ppl who believe in gods. I feel offended by people trying to convert me - and Ashley doesn't. She does not mind Shepard's religion (if s/he has any) and simply follows the same rule as I do: "believe in something, just don't force it on others."

I'm fine with that.

Same here. Every word of it. I mean geez, she even says, "that doesn't bother you, does it? That I believe in God?" She isn't going within miles of trying to convert Shepard, she just wants to make sure she isn't offending anyone, and all she's even doing in the first place is expressing her beliefs in a neutral way. Nothing wrong with it in the first place.

As an atheist I wasn't remotely offended. *shrug*

Indeed.

Ryzaki wrote...

The only issue I have is with her "How
could you look at all this and not believe in something." line. Very
easily Ash. Just because something is vast and beautiful doesn't mean it
was created on purpose.

But no I don't understand the hating
just because someone's religious. Isn't Mordin kind of religious? Meh my
Shep's pretty much "as long as you don't try to impose your beliefs on
anyone else or try to belittle there's I really don't care."

I support this post. However, I don't think it's a real issue if Ash believes in a "creator god". She wants to believe that, although she (should) know(s) it better.

Think I got why ppl dislike Ashley's religiosity. Ppl seem to believe Ashley is a Creationist, am I right? I can prove she isn't. She's not even a strong believer. She might believe in a god, maybe even in the christian God, but she does not believe in him like today christians or even those Creationists. 
Ashley's god is more like a scientist that creates a simulation of the universe: he sets up the basic variables of that simulation and hits the "START" button. Beyond that point he does not change anything - he just watches.

And yes - just for the record - I -really- hate Creationism.