744 réponses à ce sujet

[Nashiktal]

JeffZero wrote...

Hmm, I may have to look it up later. Curious now.

What about ashley talking about god? She will mention it to shep, and her talking about religion is the only time shep CAN specify his beliefs somewhat.

The options available are to say ashley can believe what she wants (under the alliance charter), profess belief in god (and thus mention the "no athiest in a foxhole" saying) and one more option which I never chose, but I believe it had to do with telling ashley off for pushing the subject.

Not sure about the third option, but not specifying belief will lead to ashley to talk about how wonderful and big the universe is (and her quote about how there must be a god), the second option will give ashley a little bit of bonus dialogue with shep (but then continue like the first option)...

There is more to it but thats the nutshell.

Modifié par Nashiktal, 17 décembre 2011 - 09:19 .

[Ryzaki]

JeffZero wrote...

Hmm, I may have to look it up later. Curious now.

Yeah I just replayed the conversation (yay for compulsive saving!) Shep says nothing about his religion one way or the other and ash still says it. It's not horrible but it was enough for me to frown. Maybe it was the way she went all "hello?!" I just thought it kind of rude seeing as she didn't know what Shep's beliefs were.

I'll put it up on youtube for a second. I know I'm being sensitive...but well it's hard not to be sensitive in my perspective. I get enough flak for my beliefs at home.

Nashiktal wrote...
Oh wasn't railing on you or anything. Just
pointing out the ridiculousness of getting annoyed at ashley for
mentioning religion once when mordin, thane, samara, and even legion/EDI
talks more about religion than ashley did. (well in legions case he was
more specific to a religion than ashley ever was.)

I am going to
assume the hate comes from the assumption of what her religious beliefs
are (which are never specified past "god"), and that she is a human
professing belief thus making it "closer to home" so to speak and thus
uncomfortable to certain individuals.

It could be
how the mentions were though. I did find Ash's mention (that one line)
to be a bit more of an eyebrow raiser than anyone else's.

Same. That's probably where my most of discomfort from that line comes from.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 17 décembre 2011 - 09:17 .

[Nashiktal]

CptData wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

CptData wrote...

I think it's really funny some ppl express such hate because of Ashley's religion. I mean, what's wrong with a religion? I'm an atheist, I don't believe in God or any god else. However, I don't feel offended by ppl who believe in gods. I feel offended by people trying to convert me - and Ashley doesn't. She does not mind Shepard's religion (if s/he has any) and simply follows the same rule as I do: "believe in something, just don't force it on others."

I'm fine with that.

Same here. Every word of it. I mean geez, she even says, "that doesn't bother you, does it? That I believe in God?" She isn't going within miles of trying to convert Shepard, she just wants to make sure she isn't offending anyone, and all she's even doing in the first place is expressing her beliefs in a neutral way. Nothing wrong with it in the first place.

As an atheist I wasn't remotely offended. *shrug*

Indeed.

Ryzaki wrote...

The only issue I have is with her "How
could you look at all this and not believe in something." line. Very
easily Ash. Just because something is vast and beautiful doesn't mean it
was created on purpose.

But no I don't understand the hating
just because someone's religious. Isn't Mordin kind of religious? Meh my
Shep's pretty much "as long as you don't try to impose your beliefs on
anyone else or try to belittle there's I really don't care."

I support this post. However, I don't think it's a real issue if Ash believes in a "creator god". She wants to believe that, although she (should) know(s) it better.

Think I got why ppl dislike Ashley's religiosity. Ppl seem to believe Ashley is a Creationist, am I right? I can prove she isn't. She's not even a strong believer. She might believe in a god, maybe even in the christian God, but she does not believe in him like today christians or even those Creationists. 
Ashley's god is more like a scientist that creates a simulation of the universe: he sets up the basic variables of that simulation and hits the "START" button. Beyond that point he does not change anything - he just watches.

And yes - just for the record - I -really- hate Creationism.

Mmm, sorry captain but I think you are doing more speculation than proving here. We just don't have enough info (and probably never will) about ashley's beliefs.

[CptData]

Nashiktal wrote...

Mmm, sorry captain but I think you are doing more speculation than proving here. We just don't have enough info (and probably never will) about ashley's beliefs.

Considering the fact how agressive today Creationists -are- I think it's quite sure to say Ash is none of them.

She simply believes in (a) God. She believes God created the universe. She does -not- believe in God creating the universe just 6000 (or 10.000) years ago including any living being.

Sure, it's not stated at any point in the game. However, Ashley doesn't act like a zealot or fundamentalist - in that case she would mind Shepard's religion and couldn't get along if he does not believe in the same stuff.

[Nashiktal]

CptData wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Mmm, sorry captain but I think you are doing more speculation than proving here. We just don't have enough info (and probably never will) about ashley's beliefs.

Considering the fact how agressive today Creationists -are- I think it's quite sure to say Ash is none of them.

She simply believes in (a) God. She believes God created the universe. She does -not- believe in God creating the universe just 6000 (or 10.000) years ago including any living being.

Sure, it's not stated at any point in the game. However, Ashley doesn't act like a zealot or fundamentalist - in that case she would mind Shepard's religion and couldn't get along if he does not believe in the same stuff.

However creationists don't have to be zealots to believe in what they do. That is the significant flaw in your logic cpt. Just because you believe in something, doesn't mean you will go crazy about it.

For example, my friend is a major fundamentalist. However she acts nothing like the fundies you hear about in the news or the T.V., other members of her church do. (and yet other do not.)

You can't determine someone's beliefs by how intensly they act toward it. You need direct provable facts.

Modifié par Nashiktal, 17 décembre 2011 - 09:30 .

[Ryzaki]

Alright recorded the convo. (Important bits anyway)

Like I said Shep doesn't mention his religion one way or the other. Ash's comment isn't bad just I did feel it was a smidge on the rude side (especially given her earlier comment).

[Fixers0]

Donnel Udina.

[Nashiktal]

Ryzaki wrote...

Alright recorded the convo. (Important bits anyway)

Like I said Shep doesn't mention his religion one way or the other. Ash's comment isn't bad just I did feel it was a smidge on the rude side (especially given her earlier comment).

What it wasn't on youtube? :innocent:

I can agree that it can sound rude but I think that comes from the situation of Ashley being used to speaking openly and freely with shep, despite him or her being the commanding officer. She doesn't seem the type to pull any punches when it comes to her opinion.

Part of her stubborn nature methinks.

[Ryzaki]

I couldn't find the bits I wanted

I don't know. Given how courteous Shep was being it feels unwarranted. To me it is why people may treat her differently than the aliens because with the aliens it's just personal, they say they believe in it and that's it. There's no comparisons no need to feel defensive about others not believing. There's none of that there.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 17 décembre 2011 - 09:48 .

[Nashiktal]

Ryzaki wrote...

I couldn't find the bits I wanted

I don't know. Given how courteous Shep was being it feels unwarranted. To me it is why people may treat her differently than the aliens because with the aliens it's just personal, they say they believe in it and that's it. There's no comparisons no need to feel defensive about others not believing. There's none of that there.

Good point, I can see why people would take offense to that.

[CptData]

Nashiktal wrote...

CptData wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Mmm, sorry captain but I think you are doing more speculation than proving here. We just don't have enough info (and probably never will) about ashley's beliefs.

Considering the fact how agressive today Creationists -are- I think it's quite sure to say Ash is none of them.

She simply believes in (a) God. She believes God created the universe. She does -not- believe in God creating the universe just 6000 (or 10.000) years ago including any living being.

Sure, it's not stated at any point in the game. However, Ashley doesn't act like a zealot or fundamentalist - in that case she would mind Shepard's religion and couldn't get along if he does not believe in the same stuff.

However creationists don't have to be zealots to believe in what they do. That is the significant flaw in your logic cpt. Just because you believe in something, doesn't mean you will go crazy about it.

For example, my friend is a major fundamentalist. However she acts nothing like the fundies you hear about in the news or the T.V., other members of her church do. (and yet other do not.)

You can't determine someone's beliefs by how intensly they act toward it. You need direct provable facts.

Okay, think we're at a dead end here for now. Until ME3 will grant us further info about Ashley's religion, I'd say she's a christian but not a strong believer.
If you think she IS a fundamentalist, that's okay too, since I can't really prove something different. So it's up to your headcanon.

The point is:

Why do people Ash because of her religiosity? Why do people hate her for something like a non-stated "fanon fact" she's a zealot, fundamentalist or whatever?

I don't get it. People hate Ashley because of their own idea what Ash could be.

[Nashiktal]

CptData wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

CptData wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Mmm, sorry captain but I think you are doing more speculation than proving here. We just don't have enough info (and probably never will) about ashley's beliefs.

Considering the fact how agressive today Creationists -are- I think it's quite sure to say Ash is none of them.

She simply believes in (a) God. She believes God created the universe. She does -not- believe in God creating the universe just 6000 (or 10.000) years ago including any living being.

Sure, it's not stated at any point in the game. However, Ashley doesn't act like a zealot or fundamentalist - in that case she would mind Shepard's religion and couldn't get along if he does not believe in the same stuff.

However creationists don't have to be zealots to believe in what they do. That is the significant flaw in your logic cpt. Just because you believe in something, doesn't mean you will go crazy about it.

For example, my friend is a major fundamentalist. However she acts nothing like the fundies you hear about in the news or the T.V., other members of her church do. (and yet other do not.)

You can't determine someone's beliefs by how intensly they act toward it. You need direct provable facts.

Okay, think we're at a dead end here for now. Until ME3 will grant us further info about Ashley's religion, I'd say she's a christian but not a strong believer.
If you think she IS a fundamentalist, that's okay too, since I can't really prove something different. So it's up to your headcanon.

The point is:

Why do people Ash because of her religiosity? Why do people hate her for something like a non-stated "fanon fact" she's a zealot, fundamentalist or whatever?

I don't get it. People hate Ashley because of their own idea what Ash could be.

Nah I don't think ashley is a fundamental. I was just trying to point out that you cannot judge what someone's belief system is by how they act, and neither can you judge how they act just by learning their belief system.

Modifié par Nashiktal, 17 décembre 2011 - 10:10 .

[Destroy Raiden_]

Annoying characters well that's Conrad for obvious reasons, Miranda and her superiority complex, and Kelly for being creepy with the crew.

[DarkPsylocke26]

We have lost sight of this thread, plus stay on topic. I don't want anyone to get angry with anyone because they believe or don't believe in God or any Gods.

[DarkPsylocke26]

Dr. Amanda Kenson

[tetrisblock4x1]

Not really annoying. They've certainly dialed down the inter-party ****ing since KotOR, so the game isn't filled with insufferable party members like Carth and mission who would just WHINE NON-STOP, or Ballistas self righteous bull****. I originally got annoyed about how boring Ash seemed to be, but she turned out to be good in the end. Overall I'm happy with the cast of characters, and there isn't anyone like Mission who I wanted to (and did) murder. The politicians in ME1 were a pain to deal with, but I can understand them and why they are what they are considering the nature of humans, and the lack of even a shred of reaper evidence.

Modifié par tetrisblock4x1, 25 janvier 2012 - 07:05 .

[royal22eric]

jacob by a long shot ! voice annoye the hell out of me, he's stupid and he cant see how bad is the idea of him protecting a whole bunch of ex-cerberus scientis with their kids while he can barely kill a security mech by himself lol

[General TSAR]

Stop practicing necromancy or else Meridia will pwn you.

[BioWareMod02]

Necro necro necro. My banhammer and silver key are being busy tonight.

Modifié par BioWareMod03, 04 octobre 2013 - 07:36 .