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The Morning war. Assume 15 Billion quarians and a comparable number of geth servants.
Now, as rational beings, we should all realize that there will be children in the total number of quarian lives. Assume 1 child for 2 parents. I am assuming as well that geth do not have children.
This gives us 10 Billion adult quarians and 5 Billion children. Assuming 2 parents and one child. For arguments sake, I will just use the human norm of a child being between the ages of New Born up to 18 years of age.
Now, look at the end of the Morning War. 17 million quarians remain alive. If I keep the same ratio, that means there are about 11.5 Million adults (from 10 Billion) and 6.5 Million children (from 5 Billion). This means that the sapient, intelligent and rational geth killed almost 5 billion children, many of which would not even know how to fight back or even speak yet.
To be fair, let's look at the geth. At the start of the war, let us assume 15 Billion active geth. At the end of the war, IF the quarians had won, there would still be 15 Billion geth, just inactive. Legion is very clear in its statement that the geth are software only. I turn my computer off, the software is still there, just not active. No deaths. Was it wrong to attempt to turn them off? I was not there so I can only give my personal answer and that is No though I'm sure many believe it was.
The quarians attempted to turn off their robotic servants. Their servants, the geth, fought back by trying to prevent themselves from being shut down. At some point, the attempts on both sides went from trying/preventing the throwing of a switch to actual, physical, harm. Mobile geth platforms were disabled with no real loss of the geth programs and quarians were hurt/killed.
The fact that the quarians lost the war is obvious, but when did they lose it? When was the point crossed that a thinking, reasoning, intelligent, unemotional sentient being would have said 'We have won.' and ceased hostilities?'
Was it after 6 Billion quarians lay dead? (4 Billion adults, 2 Billion children)
Was it after 12 Billion lay dead? (8 Billion adults, 4 Billion children)
Or did the geth just kill 10 Billion adults in the war and as part of the cleanup, dispose of the 5 Billion children since they were unneeded?
Sorry, push comes to shove, the geth are toast. But, as a reasoning person, I can only really hope for peace between the two races.
GETH OR QUARIANS
Débuté par
Mass N7 Effect N7 Maniac
, août 12 2011 06:21
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#252
Posté 13 août 2011 - 04:40
Clonedzero
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are you trying to use a children guilt trip? really?
#253
Posté 13 août 2011 - 04:44
didymos1120
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Calinstel wrote...
Legion is very clear in its statement that the geth are software only. I turn my computer off, the software is still there, just not active. No deaths.
You're neglecting the possibility that the computer is destroyed with the software still on it. Those runtimes are gone for good. And yes, I know they can transmit out, but that's if they're not instantly destroyed, vaporized, powered-down, in an area with bad reception, etc. They need to have some warning to "beam out" in the event of catastrophic damage. So yes, geth can be, for all intents and purposes, killed.
#254
Posté 13 août 2011 - 04:47
didymos1120
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Clonedzero wrote...
are you trying to use a children guilt trip? really?
Well, it's an inescapable fact that the geth killed children, and loads of them. They nearly made quarians extinct, which means they didn't discriminate between combatants and non-combatants, adults and children. And it's also an inescapable fact that at some point the quarians were no longer combat effective, and the geth kept killing them anyway, until they had no other option but flight.
Modifié par didymos1120, 13 août 2011 - 04:48 .
#255
Posté 13 août 2011 - 04:51
Kaiser Shepard
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The geth were children as well...
#256
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 13 août 2011 - 04:52
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
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Kaiser Shepard wrote...
The geth were children as well...
No, they were machines. Very dangerous machines capable of geoncide on an interstellar scale.
#257
Posté 13 août 2011 - 04:53
Kasai666
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Every species is capable of genocide. Like the quarians.Saphra Deden wrote...
Kaiser Shepard wrote...
The geth were children as well...
No, they were machines. Very dangerous machines capable of geoncide on an interstellar scale.
#258
Posté 13 août 2011 - 04:54
Massadonious1
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Don't really care about one side either way, but I'd rather hope they fight it out after we make sure the entire galaxy isn't culled.
#259
Posté 13 août 2011 - 04:56
ThanesSniper
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Saphra Deden wrote...
Kaiser Shepard wrote...
The geth were children as well...
No, they were machines. Very dangerous machines capable of geoncide on an interstellar scale.
So maybe the Quarians shouldn't have tried to shut them down and rewrite them then. Like provoking a bee's nest.
#260
Posté 13 août 2011 - 04:57
Johnny34
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Peace if it's an option, I mean Legion even says that the Geth don't really use the homeworld anyway. If it comes to war it would probably be better to side with the geth simply because they're stronger.
#261
Posté 13 août 2011 - 05:03
didymos1120
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ThanesSniper wrote...
So maybe the Quarians shouldn't have tried to shut them down and rewrite them then. Like provoking a bee's nest.
They didn't realize they were sapient yet, and the VIs they believed they were wouldn't react to a shutdown by fighting back. They'd just....shut down. Why do people cling to this notion that the quarians were just doing it to be jerks or should have known what the geth would do? They didn't, and the writers constructed the backstory that way on purpose: the tragic irony of the situation is that in attempting to prevent the worst-case scenario of all-out robot war, they accidently started it.
#262
Posté 13 août 2011 - 05:04
Dasher1010
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I'm going to side with the Quarians. The Geth are just machines.
#263
Posté 13 août 2011 - 05:05
thatguy212
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I thought they were shutting them down because they were sapient, i think tali mentions it that once they realised they were sapient that was when they decided to shut them downdidymos1120 wrote...
ThanesSniper wrote...
So maybe the Quarians shouldn't have tried to shut them down and rewrite them then. Like provoking a bee's nest.
They didn't realize they were sapient yet, and the VIs they believed they were wouldn't react to a shutdown by fighting back. They'd just....shut down. Why do people cling to this notion that the quarians were just doing it to be jerks or should have known what the geth would do? They didn't, and the writers constructed the backstory that way on purpose: the tragic irony of the situation is that in attempting to prevent the worst-case scenario of all-out robot war, they accidently started it.
#264
Posté 13 août 2011 - 05:07
ThanesSniper
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didymos1120 wrote...
ThanesSniper wrote...
So maybe the Quarians shouldn't have tried to shut them down and rewrite them then. Like provoking a bee's nest.
They didn't realize they were sapient yet, and the VIs they believed they were wouldn't react to a shutdown by fighting back. They'd just....shut down. Why do people cling to this notion that the quarians were just doing it to be jerks or should have known what the geth would do? They didn't, and the writers constructed the backstory that way on purpose: the tragic irony of the situation is that in attempting to prevent the worst-case scenario of all-out robot war, they accidently started it.
The Quarians decided to shut them down after the Geth had fully become sentient. I hardly think that's a coincidence. But I don't really agree with my own argument, I was just looking at it from different POVs. Obviously the Quarians didn't think the Geth would respond in the way they did. But it gave them no less right to decide the fate of a sentient species, even if the Quarians were the ones who inadvertently created them.
#265
Posté 13 août 2011 - 05:08
ThanesSniper
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Dasher1010 wrote...
I'm going to side with the Quarians. The Geth are just machines.
And Quarians are just various tissues.
#266
Posté 13 août 2011 - 05:15
didymos1120
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thatguy212 wrote...
I thought they were shutting them down because they were sapient, i think tali mentions it that once they realised they were sapient that was when they decided to shut them down.
No, she says they were afraid of that happening, so they tried to shut them down before it could. Oops.
#267
Posté 13 août 2011 - 05:19
Whitering
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For Tali I will kill the Geth if it comes to it, but I think Tali and Legion could forge a peace between them that will blossom into peace for both races.
#268
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 13 août 2011 - 05:35
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
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ThanesSniper wrote...
So maybe the Quarians shouldn't have tried to shut them down and rewrite them then. Like provoking a bee's nest.
There only option was to sit there helpless and hope the geth didn't become violent. All the while their chances of victory in a war would get worse.
#269
Posté 13 août 2011 - 05:43
Rockworm503
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Slayer299 wrote...
Aradace wrote...
If it comes down to it, and I have to choose between the Quarians and the Geth. Im sorry Talimancers, but Im siding with the Geth. Not because I hate Tali or anything (because I dont) but because the Geth are essentially a sentient species. AI species yes, but a "thinking" sentient species none the less. Regardless of what the Quarians created them for, they were essentially enslaving them. And slavery....well....anyone that knows me here knows what I think of Slavers lol
I keep seeing this type of comment and I can only shake my head sadly. How can you accuse the Quarians of enslaving VI's that were programmed to handle dangerous jobs for them? Are you saying that your toaster or your PC is being enslaved by you?
Unfair how many toasters do you know can talk and have consious thought?
Did anyone actually dismiss everything Legion says just because he's made of metal?
#270
Posté 13 août 2011 - 05:48
ThanesSniper
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Saphra Deden wrote...
ThanesSniper wrote...
So maybe the Quarians shouldn't have tried to shut them down and rewrite them then. Like provoking a bee's nest.
There only option was to sit there helpless and hope the geth didn't become violent. All the while their chances of victory in a war would get worse.
Well, that's what trust is for.
#271
Posté 13 août 2011 - 05:48
Inverness Moon
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Or, instead of hoping, they could use logic and communicate with the geth to ensure peace, just like they do with other sentient races. Governments don't just sit around hoping other entities don't become violent, they negotiate and communicate to achieve this. The quarians let their fear control them, avoided that path, and paid the price.Saphra Deden wrote...
ThanesSniper wrote...
So maybe the Quarians shouldn't have tried to shut them down and rewrite them then. Like provoking a bee's nest.
There only option was to sit there helpless and hope the geth didn't become violent. All the while their chances of victory in a war would get worse.
It is obvious in hindsight that their fears of the geth were entirely misplaced, that means there was a fundamental flaw in their thought process, which is obviously the assumption that AI are inherently violent when it comes to organics to some reason.
What the quarians should have done is started by asking the geth what they wanted to do with their sentience. Obviously they don't have the same needs as organics, but then economies and cooperation happens because different groups have different needs and work together to fulfill each other's.
Modifié par Inverness Moon, 13 août 2011 - 05:50 .
#272
Posté 13 août 2011 - 05:51
AtreiyaN7
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I would back the Geth, but I hope the Quarians and Geth can work out their issues (with Shepard's diplomatic intervention - heh).
#273
Posté 13 août 2011 - 05:53
Rockworm503
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Heres the thing about the "their just machines" argument. If my toaster tried to kill me for making toast then I'd think I'm crazy lol. You can't really compare this to real life application. The Geth are machines yes. But machines capable of fighting back if pushed. What if the way to avoid the rise of the machines in Terminator was to talk to them and try to reach an understanding? Maybe the fact their just machines mean they should have no rights. Their actions and what their capable of tells me otherwise.
#274
Posté 13 août 2011 - 05:56
Cerberus_Avenger
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wow, alot of people choosing the geth
sadly enough i'd have to say that i'd choose the geth as well honestly
granted, there's no way Shep would be able to get a big enough army for the quarians, unless there were like LOTS of them scattered around the systems and they all banded together, but even then, they go down faster than mosquitos to a bug zapper
sadly enough i'd have to say that i'd choose the geth as well honestly
granted, there's no way Shep would be able to get a big enough army for the quarians, unless there were like LOTS of them scattered around the systems and they all banded together, but even then, they go down faster than mosquitos to a bug zapper
