758 réponses à ce sujet

[Rogue Unit]

Gust4v wrote...

That'd be one of the easiest choices in the game.
Quarians, of course. The Geth are just software and a possible threat in the future.

Of course it's easy if you ignore all the facts regarding the Geth/Quarians.

And anything and everyone has the potiential to become a threat in the future. As it is now, the Batarians pose more of a threat to galactic stability than the Geth.

[SandTrout]

I'd also like to think the time Ashley spent working with Garrus during ME 1 somewhat changed her perspective on Turians. We know that Pressly had a change of attitude when we read the datapad in the Normandy crash pack dlc.

Actually, Ashley never expresses any distinct dislike for Turians. As didymos stated, her ire is more dirrected at what the alliance did to her father and grandfather than it is at the Turians.

[KotorEffect3]

SandTrout wrote...

I'd also like to think the time Ashley spent working with Garrus during ME 1 somewhat changed her perspective on Turians. We know that Pressly had a change of attitude when we read the datapad in the Normandy crash pack dlc.

Actually, Ashley never expresses any distinct dislike for Turians. As didymos stated, her ire is more dirrected at what the alliance did to her father and grandfather than it is at the Turians.

I never said she disliked Turians but I think serving with Garrus may have given her some perspective.  Trust me it drives me nuts when people accuse her of racism.  In my opinion her distrust of them is more political in nature and I actualy think the concerns she raises are valid.

[AnAccountWithNoName]

azerSheppard wrote...

AnAccountWithNoName wrote...

Dionkey wrote...

Geth. They did nothing wrong other than breaking free from enslavement. It's the Quarian's fault for building an enslaving a sentient race.

Has Man fallen this far?  Is this quote above a sign of us falling deeper and deeper?

Didn't your parents teach you that one wrong doesn't make another wrong right?

Frak what the Quarians did, it doesn't matter what they tried to do to the Geth.  What matters is that the Geth responded with the act of trying to wipe out all of the Quarians.  I don't mind the Geth defending themsleves, after all, they do deserve to survive, however they went OVERBOARD.

Attempted genocide does not make another act of genocide right, regardless of who or what does it.

You have a serious case of morale****. The only true way to defeat an enemy for good is total annihilation of it's existance. Simply diminishing their numbers will result in possible retaliation at some point.

Since the Geth think purely logical, they must have concluded that genocide was the only true way to defeat the Quarians.

Now the billions of children thing, bet Marc Walters hasen't even given the slightest thought to that, in the very least it would have been mentioned by Tali if the writers had thought thing trough.

It doesn't even make sense from a logical perspective. 

Even if it did, the Geth learned this form of annihilation from their creators. It's like that neo**** kid killed his father because he was thought to kill all that pose a problem to him.

That's not the way right way though.  By your philosophy, America should have just nuked the ENTIRE island of Japan, just to make sure the Japanese would never be a threat to America again.

History has shown that we don't have to kill all the members of an enemy faction to win.  There have been plenty of times in the past in war, in which an enemy has been defeated for good, but not every member of the destroyed faction was killed.

So your belief of  "The only true way in defeating an enemy for good is total annihilation of its existence" is wrong.

Sometimes the logical way to do it is not the right/moral way to do it.

If humans always acted in a logical manner and never thought before doing an action in whether said action was right or not, we would become cold machines like the geth.

[Rockworm503]

Someone With Mass wrote...

The funny thing is that there aren't any quarians which were there during the geth's awakening that are still alive today, while the geth remembers every second of it.

Should all the quarians really suffer for something their ancestors did?

It's like saying that all the Germans that lives today should suffer for what the third reich did during the world wars. It's just stupid.

As for the quarians that wants to go to war, they don't know any better alternative. They're not idiots nor "deserve" that fate because of it. It's just a desperate act to reclaim what was once theirs. And they clearly don't know as much about the geth as Shepard and Legion do.

By the way, if the humans were in their position, the whining and moaning would never end, considering how utterly butthurt they were because of the First Contact War. Which wasn't really a war. It was more of a conflict that lasted for a whooping three months.

I can't speak for other Geth supporters but I don't think the Quarians deserve their fate either.  They payed for it all already and Tali knows as much as Shepard does the question isn't how much the Quarians know about the Geth its how much are they willing to listen.

As for us Humans considering that some people are still complaining about DA2 than a 3 month conflict will be complained about a hundered years later.

[KotorEffect3]

The way I view it when it comes to the Geth and the Quarians is that they are both right and they are both wrong, neither side is innocent and hopefuly we can convince both sides to be reasonable but if not then I don't know what I will do. I have a similar view of the Krogan rebellions though I definitly support curing the genophage (as long as Wrex is leading the Krogan)

[Rockworm503]

SandTrout wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

How is that not helping my argument?
If anything the fact that the Geth aren't like Skynet just makes my argument stronger.

We only know this after the fact, and the Quarian felt compelled to assume a worst-case scenario, which is understandable, and apparrently at least somewhat justified.

I'm not justifying what the Geth did in the Morning War but they were given the option of be destroyed or fight back.
This has been said to death already but the killing of innocence just tells me they haven't devoleped a sence of moral code yet. The fact that they maintain the planet and are willing to accept the Quarians back tells me they have one now.
If the Quarians have suffered enough and payed for their passed mistakes shouldn't the Geth have the same oppurtunity?

[xXljoshlXx]

AnAccountWithNoName wrote...
History has shown that we don't have to kill all the members of an enemy faction to win.  There have been plenty of times in the past in war, in which an enemy has been defeated for good, but not every member of the destroyed faction was killed.

Yea execpt the Geth have no history in war they are also were young at the time. So they would not know that.

AnAccountWithNoName wrote...
So your belief of  "The only true way in defeating an enemy for good is total annihilation of its existence" is wrong.
Sometimes the logical way to do it is not the right/moral way to do it.

Right/Moral is based on your beliefs so it is more of an opinion 

[KotorEffect3]

xXljoshlXx wrote...

AnAccountWithNoName wrote...
History has shown that we don't have to kill all the members of an enemy faction to win.  There have been plenty of times in the past in war, in which an enemy has been defeated for good, but not every member of the destroyed faction was killed.

Yea execpt the Geth have no history in war they are also were young at the time. So they would not know that.

AnAccountWithNoName wrote...
So your belief of  "The only true way in defeating an enemy for good is total annihilation of its existence" is wrong.
Sometimes the logical way to do it is not the right/moral way to do it.

Right/Moral is based on your beliefs so it is more of an opinion 

Some morality might be an opinion thing but sometimes it isn't.  I would say deliberatly harming an innocent is moraly wrong no matter how you slice it.

[didymos1120]

xXljoshlXx wrote...

Yea execpt the Geth have no history in war they are also were young at the time. So they would not know that.

They could access the quarian Scroll of Ancestors and comprehend them well enough to wonder about these "soul" dealies, so they could certainly read a damn history book or two.

[xXljoshlXx]

KotorEffect3 wrote...
I would say deliberatly harming an innocent is moraly wrong no matter how you slice it.

Like the Geth in the morning war?
And all those children Quarians 

[Agamo45]

I'll let them kill each other if they're too stupid to work together.

[didymos1120]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

In any case, the "soul" question clearly indicates that contrary to what Tali said in ME1, the Geth had become self-aware prior the war, and the Quarians had all the reason to be sure of that, when they decided to pull the plug.

This is a popular assertion, but it's not based on anything but assumption. How do you know it's a question that only a sapient system could ask?  Why shouldn't it have been taken as a sign of being close to "waking up" instead?  I.e., that the asking of such questions indicated that a necessary but not sufficient condition of sapience had been met.  You can argue that they should have investigated more (and for all we know, maybe they did.  We've only gotten the Reader's Digest Hypercondensed Edition of the Morning War), but you can't just say that that alone was enough without backing it up.

[KotorEffect3]

xXljoshlXx wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...
I would say deliberatly harming an innocent is moraly wrong no matter how you slice it.

Like the Geth in the morning war?
And all those children Quarians 

Like I said both sides were right and both sides were wrong.

[Agamo45]

xXljoshlXx wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...
I would say deliberatly harming an innocent is moraly wrong no matter how you slice it.

Like the Geth in the morning war?
And all those children Quarians 

The quarians declared that they were going to wipe out the geth completely. Total war in other words. The geth responded with the same mentality. The quarians have no one to blame but themselves.

[Someone With Mass]

Agamo45 wrote...

I'll let them kill each other if they're too stupid to work together.

Sounds like that will be a reoccurring theme in ME3.

Have fun with that.

[Clonedzero]

xXljoshlXx wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...
I would say deliberatly harming an innocent is moraly wrong no matter how you slice it.

Like the Geth in the morning war?
And all those children Quarians 

gotta break some eggs to make an omelet

[Someone With Mass]

Agamo45 wrote...
The quarians declared that they were going to wipe out the geth completely. Total war in other words. The geth responded with the same mentality. The quarians have no one to blame but themselves.

That's like saying that you deserve to die because you wanted to unplug your computer that started to become sentient, which it wasn't built to, and it managed to hurt you back before you could do anything.

By the way, the geth really didn't answer with the same mentality, because they didn't try to "fix" or "reprogram" the quarians at first.

Not to mention that the quarians that lives in the present never did anything to deserve the situation they're in, so that argument about them only having themselves to blame is just completely retarded.

[Ianamus]

Agamo45 wrote...

xXljoshlXx wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...
I would say deliberatly harming an innocent is moraly wrong no matter how you slice it.

Like the Geth in the morning war?
And all those children Quarians 

The quarians declared that they were going to wipe out the geth completely. Total war in other words. The geth responded with the same mentality. The quarians have no one to blame but themselves.

So if the French government declared that they would wipe out all Spanish people then the Spanish would be justified in killing every single person in France, even the children and elderly?

I guess those french children just got what they deserved. 

[xXljoshlXx]

didymos1120 wrote...

xXljoshlXx wrote...

AnAccountWithNoName wrote...
History has shown that we don't have to kill all the members of an enemy faction to win.  There have been plenty of times in the past in war, in which an enemy has been defeated for good, but not every member of the destroyed faction was killed.

Yea execpt the Geth have no history in war they are also were young at the time. So they would not know that.

They could access the quarian Scroll of Ancestors and comprehend them well enough to wonder about these "soul" dealies, so they could certainly read a history book or two.

History has also shown you if you don't finish a threat completely it can be came back. Which the Qaurians did do. The Qaurians wanted to wipe all the Geth why shouldn't the Geth be able to do the same?

Modifié par xXljoshlXx, 13 août 2011 - 10:15 .

[KotorEffect3]

Clonedzero wrote...

xXljoshlXx wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...
I would say deliberatly harming an innocent is moraly wrong no matter how you slice it.

Like the Geth in the morning war?
And all those children Quarians 

gotta break some eggs to make an omelet

I am not saying we won't be forced to do some moraly questionable things even the most goody two shoes paragon is going to have to do some nasty things.  The reaper threat demands that  at times practicality takes a precedent over morality.  I was just pointing out that some morality in some situations  is absolute

[Agamo45]

EJ107 wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

xXljoshlXx wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...
I would say deliberatly harming an innocent is moraly wrong no matter how you slice it.

Like the Geth in the morning war?
And all those children Quarians 

The quarians declared that they were going to wipe out the geth completely. Total war in other words. The geth responded with the same mentality. The quarians have no one to blame but themselves.

So if the French government declared that they would wipe out all Spanish people then the Spanish would be justified in killing every single person in France, even the children and elderly?

I guess those french children just got what they deserved. 

The geth are machines, they probably calculated that the most efficient way to defeat the quarians was to kill every last one of them, since that's what the quarians were trying to do to them. The Allies during the Second World War killed millions of German and Japanese civilians with bombing, completely breaking their will to fight and forcing them to surrender. That worked for the geth, the quarians lost so much that they were eventually forced to abandon their own civilization, securing survival for the geth. That's war, no morality just survival.

[AnAccountWithNoName]

EJ107 wrote...

Agamo45 wrote...

xXljoshlXx wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...
I would say deliberatly harming an innocent is moraly wrong no matter how you slice it.

Like the Geth in the morning war?
And all those children Quarians 

The quarians declared that they were going to wipe out the geth completely. Total war in other words. The geth responded with the same mentality. The quarians have no one to blame but themselves.

So if the French government declared that they would wipe out all Spanish people then the Spanish would be justified in killing every single person in France, even the children and elderly?

I guess those french children just got what they deserved. 

Of course they got what they deserved.  Don't you know that every French person, regardless, of race, religion, age, sex, political affliction, are all just evil, it doesn't matter that many French did not have a say in what there government was doing, but it doesn't matter.  So because some French wanted to wipe out all Spanish people, it makes it perfectly justified for the Spanish to commit genoicde on them.

^^^^

,Just replace the word "French" with Quarian, and "Spanish" with Geth. and you have the belief of those who think the Quarians got what they deserved.  It's a pretty stupid belief.

The nation of Germany has done some not so nice things in the past, but does that mean all germans deserve to die?  No

The quarian species has done some not no nice things to the Geth, but does that mean the quarians, regardless of their stance on the Geth, deserve to have almost there whole species die?  No

Modifié par AnAccountWithNoName, 13 août 2011 - 10:32 .

[Ianamus]

Agamo45 wrote...

The geth are machines, they probably calculated that the most efficient way to defeat the quarians was to kill every last one of them, since that's what the quarians were trying to do to them. The Allies during the Second World War killed millions of German and Japanese civilians with bombing, completely breaking their will to fight and forcing them to surrender. That worked for the geth, the quarians lost so much that they were eventually forced to abandon their own civilization, securing survival for the geth. That's war, no morality just survival.

What does it say about the Geth if they're willing to do things like that? At least the allies in real life tried to avoid killing civilians. 

People try to use "they're machines" to justify what the Geth have done, but all that proves is that they are dangerous, don't value life, and would readily slaughter the entire galaxy without hesitation if they thought it was logical. That makes them no better than the Reapers. 

AnAccountWithNoName wrote...

Just replace the word "French" with Quarian, and "Spanish" with Geth. and you have the belief of those who think the Quarians got what they deserved.  It's a pretty stupid belief.

Exactly. Putting it in real life terms really shows what a stupid belief it is. 

Modifié par EJ107, 13 août 2011 - 10:36 .

[xXljoshlXx]

AnAccountWithNoName wrote...
Of course they got what they deserved.  Don't you know that every French person, regardless, of race, religion, age, sex, political affliction, are all just evil, it doesn't matter that many French did not have a say in what there government was doing, but it doesn't matter.  So because some French wanted to wipe out all Spanish people, it makes it perfectly justified for the Spanish to commit genoicde on them.

^^^^

,Just replace the word "French" with Quarian, and "Spanish" with Geth. and you have the belief of those who think the Quarians got what they deserved.  It's a pretty stupid belief.

The quarian species has done some not no nice things to the Geth, but does that mean the quarians, regardless of their stance on the Geth, deserve to have almost there whole species die?  No

Just replace french with Geth and Spanish with Qaurian